Prices on FENDER Guitars - what you should know, but what they don't want you to know

ianvomsaal · May 2007

(THIS IS ONLY FOR FENDER GUITARS -- other manufactures (like Gibson) are different).

Just a little heads up for those of you in USA looking to buy a Fender Guitar.
You can get a decent price on Fender at bigger stores like Guitar Center - you just have to know how to handle it.
Take a look at the MSRP (aka LIST PRICE) on the Fender Guitar you want to buy.
Now subtract 30% from that List Price (this is a STANDARD SELLING PRICE).
That price should be about the same as the store's price (if you're asked to pay more, you're getting ripped off).
(Guitar Center own MusiciansFriend, therefore the Fender Guitar prices are comparable for reference).
Example: Fender American Deluxe Stratocaster List Price: $1,714.27 - Sale Price: $1,199.99 - that is LITERALLY 30% off List.

But You Don't Have To Pay That Price!!!
I'd suggest you subtract at least 35% from the MSRP (List Price) - that'll give you a good starting point.
You could subtract 40% or 45% off of LIST, and say "I'll give you this much $$ for it."
Hey if they won't go for it, JUST WALK (it's like buying a car) - shrug your shoulders and say, okay, turn around and leave - simple).
Go back another day and do the same thing with another sales guy (someone will eventually bite).

WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW:
When I worked at Guitar Center I could order guitars directly from Fender.
We subtracted 50% off the LIST PRICE, then took that price and subtracted another 20% .
This is how much Guitar Center "ACTUALLY" pays for Fender Guitars
Meaning Guitar Center buys the AMERICAN DELUXE STRAT (listed above for $1,714.27) for about $686 plus shipping.
Now you'll never be able to get it for that price (since it's literally cost before shipping).
However, paying $900 for a $1714.27 listed guitar that sells for $1,199.99 isn't unreasonable.

Cheers . . .

- Ian

PS - those of you looking to buy a used Fender should take all of this into account as well.
Do the math - I mean, what can you buy a new one for??? Ebay is generally a rip-off here in the US.

keeponrockin · May 2007

Very interesting.... I'm buying an American Deluxe probably this weekend, and getting about 10% off the sale price. I know not the best, but not bad.

ianvomsaal · May 2007

keeponrockin wrote:

Very interesting.... I'm buying an American Deluxe probably this weekend, and getting about 10% off the sale price. I know not the best, but not bad.

Sale price ($1,199.99 lets hope), minus another 10% = so you're paying $1079.99 (which is really 37% off list).
It's not 40% off List ($1025.56), but another 7% in actuality is better than paying the regular sale price.
I don't know why they call it "Sale Price", it's the "what it typically sells for" price.
I just hope this is out the door, case and tax included (if you're getting it all for that price you're negotiating well).

- Ian

All Those Yesterdays · May 2007

ianvomsaal wrote:

Sale price ($1,199.99 lets hope), minus another 10% = so you're paying $1079.99 (which is really 37% off list).
It's not 40% off List ($1025.56), but another 7% in actuality is better than paying the regular sale price.
I don't know why they call it "Sale Price", it's the "what it typically sells for" price.
I just hope this is out the door, case and tax included (if you're getting it all for that price you're negotiating well).

- Ian

American deluxe comes with a case. Should be added on. If they are, hope fender doesn't find out.

ianvomsaal · May 2007

All Those Yesterdays wrote:

American deluxe comes with a case. Should be added on. If they are, hope fender doesn't find out.

Yeah I know, but Guitar Center and Sam Ash like to separate the guitars and cases and sell them separately.
You think you're getting a decent price on the guitar, until you find out it's without a case.

Pacomc79 · May 2007

ianvomsaal wrote:

Yeah I know, but Guitar Center and Sam Ash like to separate the guitars and cases and sell them separately.
You think you're getting a great price on the guitar, until you find out it's without a case.

Exactly, then they take them in on trades in for one cent. But hey, the sales guy has to make a buck too.

This is a great thread. I forget that some people don't know this stuff. It probably does kill mom and pops, but geez, that's a lot of markup.

It's one reason I don't like Ovations or most other Kaman stuff redonkulous markup.

Depending on how the salesman is doing that day he or she might cut you a better deal as well.

All Those Yesterdays · May 2007

I tend to play between two stores in town too. Guitar Center will get it to me for this ---- What can you do.

I also tend to stick with the same sales people at each store. Helps out.

TheLuckyOnes · May 2007

good thread, should be extremely helpful for the younger guys, or beginner players.

The biggest single day spending i've done (in a GC at least) was about $1500. But the normal sale price would have put me at about 2000 that day, and it's just a matter of asking for it.

Picked up a Vox AC15, asked for a discount because it's a floor model. That was a hundred off. They couldn't find the footswitch at first, i waited it out, but would have demanded something free without it. Demanded a free cord to the footswitch. Got it.

Bought a couple distortion pedals that day, and a Power Brick. I think i paid full for the pedals, but 20% off the Brick, and free patch cables for the pedals.

Last was an Epi LP. I had been carrying it around playing all the other stuff i bought, and i needed an LP (Gibby's too high for the moment, i've already rebuilt the Epi). The store was closing and i asked how much they could come down the guitar. They knocked it from 499 to 399 (which you can find new Epi's for here and there throughout the year at normal sale price). I said, "what about the case?" They said "Can't do it." I just stood there a second because the store was closed, i had the whole staff waiting for me, and i had already spent enough cash to feel justified. Then i just put the guitar down on the nearest stand. Sure enough, the guy says "well, wait, we can do something..." So i got the guitar at 399, and a hardshell SKB for 20 bucks.

This story is for all the kids who get financially raped by guitar stores, chain and Mom/Pop alike (Mom/Pop can, but does not always equal "the good guys"). I am just your normal, extremely passive guy. My friend who was with me was shocked, because i had three sales guys running around looking for stuff, asking manager approval, etc. He had never seen me make stuff happen like that. But it took lots of years to build up knowledge before i gained the confidence to realize i know more about this stuff then most of those employees. Useless Gear Knowledge.

Just know what you want, what you have to spend, then make it happen. Save paying full price for impulse buys, but scout out the big purchases, and take care of your money. Cheers.

rigneyclan · May 2007

ok, so if I want to get a fender jazzmaster american reissue (listed at $1999), the normal selling price would be around 1,330? Do you think I'd be able to get it for less than a thousand?

All Those Yesterdays · May 2007

rigneyclan wrote:

ok, so if I want to get a fender jazzmaster american reissue (listed at $1999), the normal selling price would be around 1,330? Do you think I'd be able to get it for less than a thousand?

You talking about the '62? Those are about $1,400 thru musiciansfriend. I'd shoot for a grand at first, but I wouldn't expect them to take it. Might be able to snag it for $1,100.

MichaelMcKevin · May 2007

rigneyclan wrote:

ok, so if I want to get a fender jazzmaster american reissue (listed at $1999), the normal selling price would be around 1,330? Do you think I'd be able to get it for less than a thousand?

that's 50% off the list... quite a stretch.

keeponrockin · May 2007

The Strat is basically gonna be free of tax (which is 14% in Canada) and it includes the case. I'm satisfied with what I'm getting.

lucylespian · May 2007

keeponrockin wrote:

The Strat is basically gonna be free of tax (which is 14% in Canada) and it includes the case. I'm satisfied with what I'm getting.

There's nothing wrong with settling for a fair deal. Try running a business and see how many overheads you have to contend with. I like to think that I get some goodwill thrown in with the goods if I don't screw people to the last cent. I never play two stores off each other, except with cars, cos there we are talking thousands, and they get you on teh seervices anyway.

I'm not comfortable with screwing guys for the very last cent, and I want the shop to be there for next time.
My approach is to ask what their best price is. First storre to give me the price I'm happy wiht gets the business. Once they know that is your approach, they will give you teh best price first, without any BS, which makes the whole process much nicer. I tell them straight up that's how I work, and they get with the programme quick.
I do expect a case when it's a standard fit to the git, and would walk if they tried to screw me out of one.
Any premium guitar should come with a case.

You have said that part of the pleausure here for you is goign to the store and having that whole shopping experience. Trying too hard to screw the best deal might spoil that for you too.

I like your "I'm satisfied with that" comment !! Shows a level head and a balanced outlook on life .

harrisonmerwin · May 2007

' Cash is mightier than the sword '....or...somethign like that. If you walk in with a stack full of cash, it is way more appealing to a sales man or sales manager, it makes them think they have you reeled in...when you happen to have 200-300 less than what they are asking, they still might want to take what you have....allways use the mighty cash....

lucylespian · May 2007

JUst stuck my nose in a msic store nearby, Mexican strat hangin on the wall for $1800.

So, no more whinging about Strat prices OK !!!!!!!!!

ianvomsaal · May 2007

rigneyclan wrote:

ok, so if I want to get a fender jazzmaster american reissue (listed at $1999), the normal selling price would be around 1,330? Do you think I'd be able to get it for less than a thousand?

I wouldn't push it -- these guys make commission -- granted it's a small %.
Just do the math, it's not that difficult!!!!
If LIST is $1999, 30% off of that is $1399.30.
40% off of list is $1199.40 -- that's a better area to shoot for.
Guitar Center may buy this guitar for $800 before shipping, ect, ect, but they'll say cost is actually about $900,
Because that's what the computer actually says (if the employee says "this is cost", they're typically not lying, it's what the computer says).
Corporate Guitar Center marks everything up 10% over actual cost (it's in the computer at that price).
This way, even if an employee gives something away at "COSTt" (which means they're not making anything on the deal themselves), the Guitar
Center entity itself is still making about 10% on the sale (this way all of their other expenses are covered).

Commission at GC is complicated -- typically depending on how long the employee has worked there determines their % rates.
Employees usually make between 1% & 3% on gross sales, and between 4% & 10% on gross profit . . . but there's a BIG catch.
Add both % rates together (gross sales and gross profit), and now subtract their hourly pay (minimum wage) from that total.
Whatever the different is, is their commission (which most of the time isn't much at all, especially for new employees).
If their combined gross sales and gross profit is less than their hourly pay they DON'T make any commission.
GC usually fires the people that don't make any commission after a few months -- this is why there's such a large employee turnaround.

$1000 for this guitar is what they call a 10-up deal (meaning 10% over cost).
The right guy will do this, but they're not showing much profit, so you can try, but it doesn't mean they'll do it . . . NOR SHOULD THEY
Seriously, these guys want to make $$$ (who doesn't) - the best way for them to make $$$ is to sell gear at as close to sale prices (GLP) as possible.
As I said, if you're looking to get a deal, the best way to keep everyone happiest to shoot for around 40% off the List Price on Fender Guitars.

- Ian C.T. vom Saal

chiefojibwa wrote:

and that is why i did not buy a gibson acoustic and sg from them a month ago...wouldn't throw in the cases. it was a sweet deal too....brand new sg standard for 999, gibson j-180 acoustic/electric limited edition (only 300 made) for 890 (had a crack below the bridge). but, no cases, so i walked. ya gotta put your foot down with the fuckers 'else you won't get no respect!

I said Fender Guitars, many times in the ORIGINAL thread because this % system ONLY works for Fender Guitars (not their amps, supplies, or accessories).
Gibson's are a whole different story!!! This will not work for Gibson (they buy Gibson at a different price-point)!!!
Gibson Guitars are more expensive for the retailer to buy than Fender Guitars (period).
Thus they can't come down as much as they can with Fender.
If you've worked with the same sales guy enough, he typically won't try to screw you too hard.
Don't go in with a "take no prisoners" type attitude or your reputation will get around.
Everyone at that store will relish the opportunity to screw you, and you'll be one of the people they all despise and talk shit about on a daily basis.

- Ian C.T. vom Saal

keeponrockin · May 2007

lucylespian wrote:

There's nothing wrong with settling for a fair deal. Try running a business and see how many overheads you have to contend with. I like to think that I get some goodwill thrown in with the goods if I don't screw people to the last cent. I never play two stores off each other, except with cars, cos there we are talking thousands, and they get you on teh seervices anyway.

I'm not comfortable with screwing guys for the very last cent, and I want the shop to be there for next time.
My approach is to ask what their best price is. First storre to give me the price I'm happy wiht gets the business. Once they know that is your approach, they will give you teh best price first, without any BS, which makes the whole process much nicer. I tell them straight up that's how I work, and they get with the programme quick.
I do expect a case when it's a standard fit to the git, and would walk if they tried to screw me out of one.
Any premium guitar should come with a case.

You have said that part of the pleausure here for you is goign to the store and having that whole shopping experience. Trying too hard to screw the best deal might spoil that for you too.

I like your "I'm satisfied with that" comment !! Shows a level head and a balanced outlook on life .

I agree 100%. I don't try and screw these guys over, partially because they were good to me when I was eleven years old in there. They talked to me, showed me shit, etc, so I don't mind paying a little more for that. Every time I walk into the store I talk baseball with the tech, talk a little music, then get the guitars. I don't have any desire to haggle over a few bucks.

DOSW · May 2007

Wow, great thread Ian (and everyone else who chipped in some advice.) I'll make sure to remember the advice in this thread whenever I buy an American Fender... Lord knows how far away that will be (years, probably), but I'll remember it anyway!

All Those Yesterdays · May 2007

I wouldn't say my mind set is to go in and screw anybody. I have my one or two sales people at each of the three stores in town that I only deal with. They are the straight shooting ones to me. I have to say I've never had the experience at any store of them not giving me a case when it's suppose to come with one. If that happened to me I think I'd write a letter to the manufacturer, because I'm pretty sure there is something in their contract that states they can't do it. I also do what I can to give it too one of the two private stores in town over Guitar Center. I've bought stuff from guitar center, but fortunately nothing major. But the majority always goes to the privately owned business. Guitar Center always leaves a bad taste in my mouth, even though I know I can get a better deal at that store then the local shop, but I'll end up paying the 5% more or what ever it might be and go to the private owner shop.

ianvomsaal · May 2007

I posted this below, but I really think it needs seen - If you don't understand this just ask and I'll explain.

Commission at Guitar Center is complicated -- typically depending on how long the employee has worked there determines their % rates.
Employees usually make between 1% & 3% on gross sales, and between 4% & 10% on gross profit . . . but there's a BIG catch.
Add both % rates together (gross sales and gross profit), and now subtract their hourly pay (minimum wage) from that total.
Whatever the different is, is their commission (which most of the time isn't much at all, especially for new employees).
If their combined gross sales and gross profit is less than their hourly pay they DON'T make any commission.
GC usually fires the people that don't make any commission after a few months -- this is why there's such a large employee turnaround.

All GC sales associates work for minimum wage (plus commission, if they can make any at all).
Treat them right and they'll usually return the favor.

- Ian

keeponrockin · May 2007

ianvomsaal wrote:

I posted this below, but I really think it needs seen - If you don't understand this just ask and I'll explain.

Commission at Guitar Center is complicated -- typically depending on how long the employee has worked there determines their % rates.
Employees usually make between 1% & 3% on gross sales, and between 4% & 10% on gross profit . . . but there's a BIG catch.
Add both % rates together (gross sales and gross profit), and now subtract their hourly pay (minimum wage) from that total.
Whatever the different is, is their commission (which most of the time isn't much at all, especially for new employees).
If their combined gross sales and gross profit is less than their hourly pay they DON'T make any commission.
GC usually fires the people that don't make any commission after a few months -- this is why there's such a large employee turnaround.

All GC sales associates work for minimum wage (plus commission, if they can make any at all).
Treat them right and they'll usually return the favor.

- Ian

Don't they have a certain quota?

Prices on FENDER Guitars - what you should know, but what they don't want you to know

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