News and What's New in AI

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Comments

  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 10,073
    Detecting guns in school doesn’t mean you can’t restrict who has them to begin with. It’s not an either-or.

    Your instance to die on this hill of making fun of using AI to detect weapons in schools is very odd to me. You act like it can never improve, no changes will ever be made and any kid who brings chips to school will be arrested. It’s very odd. Keeping guns out of schools is good. You shouldn’t have an issue with this.
  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 8,554
    mace1229 said:
    Detecting guns in school doesn’t mean you can’t restrict who has them to begin with. It’s not an either-or.

    Your instance to die on this hill of making fun of using AI to detect weapons in schools is very odd to me. You act like it can never improve, no changes will ever be made and any kid who brings chips to school will be arrested. It’s very odd. Keeping guns out of schools is good. You shouldn’t have an issue with this.

    I’ve tried often to discuss the goals and problems with AI, and since my reputation is that of an extreme centrist, if there is such a thing, I need to be ignored. AI is the future, the only question is how long it takes to be efficient. Yet, the jokesters think it’s funny.


    we have become a party that responded to trumpian with its own version of trumpian. Facts don’t matter, opinions are never budged an inch with facts, both political sides are each in their own tent and that’s all that matters.

    thats why I stick with the math on the huge dem win in the city. The obvious fact is the math is risky because many will leave, but that race became a trophy middle finger to potus. And Dems line up without thinking or educate themselves when the city tried tricky math fifty years ago and questionable accounting tricks (I know, very boring)


    even tho there is plenty of video of the neighborhood where the glorious Yankees play burned to the ground, where the garden was a dangerous area, where PJ fans would have not never ever waited on line overnight to be on the rail…. we still risk this dem ideology because it’s our team and it’s a finger to potus. There no “reasoned debate” from the far left found here.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,815
    mace1229 said:
    Detecting guns in school doesn’t mean you can’t restrict who has them to begin with. It’s not an either-or.

    Your instance to die on this hill of making fun of using AI to detect weapons in schools is very odd to me. You act like it can never improve, no changes will ever be made and any kid who brings chips to school will be arrested. It’s very odd. Keeping guns out of schools is good. You shouldn’t have an issue with this.

    Who you are talking about?  Who said things can't improve?  Blind accusations. Talk about very odd.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 43,319
    edited November 9
    mace1229 said:
    Detecting guns in school doesn’t mean you can’t restrict who has them to begin with. It’s not an either-or.

    Your instance to die on this hill of making fun of using AI to detect weapons in schools is very odd to me. You act like it can never improve, no changes will ever be made and any kid who brings chips to school will be arrested. It’s very odd. Keeping guns out of schools is good. You shouldn’t have an issue with this.

    I’ve tried often to discuss the goals and problems with AI, and since my reputation is that of an extreme centrist, if there is such a thing, I need to be ignored. AI is the future, the only question is how long it takes to be efficient. Yet, the jokesters think it’s funny.


    we have become a party that responded to trumpian with its own version of trumpian. Facts don’t matter, opinions are never budged an inch with facts, both political sides are each in their own tent and that’s all that matters.

    thats why I stick with the math on the huge dem win in the city. The obvious fact is the math is risky because many will leave, but that race became a trophy middle finger to potus. And Dems line up without thinking or educate themselves when the city tried tricky math fifty years ago and questionable accounting tricks (I know, very boring)


    even tho there is plenty of video of the neighborhood where the glorious Yankees play burned to the ground, where the garden was a dangerous area, where PJ fans would have not never ever waited on line overnight to be on the rail…. we still risk this dem ideology because it’s our team and it’s a finger to potus. There no “reasoned debate” from the far left found here.

    * The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

    You might consider moving. In 4 years the mayhem will reach Stamford, as far north as Beacon and all the way southwest to Philly. No where will be safe!

    I guess this thread is appropriate as you might need a AI gun that targets and fires at threats and then texts you to say a threat was eliminated, if you don’t have one already.

    Post edited by Halifax2TheMax on
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  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 8,554
    I mean, I know that’s the English language, but does it have any meaning? 
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 10,073
    edited November 10
    brianlux said:
    mace1229 said:
    Detecting guns in school doesn’t mean you can’t restrict who has them to begin with. It’s not an either-or.

    Your instance to die on this hill of making fun of using AI to detect weapons in schools is very odd to me. You act like it can never improve, no changes will ever be made and any kid who brings chips to school will be arrested. It’s very odd. Keeping guns out of schools is good. You shouldn’t have an issue with this.

    Who you are talking about?  Who said things can't improve?  Blind accusations. Talk about very odd.
    It wasn’t a blind accusation. I thought I had replied to gimme. But the previous post was him responding to me, and we commented on each others post several times, so it should have been fairly easy to see who I was talking about and not claim it’s a very odd blind accusation.  It was clear by the language I was referring to a specific comment. Really don’t know why you’d think it was a blind accusation and respond like that. Read the previous post and it was obvious.

    For clarity, I had defended using AI to detect guns in schools, said it will improve and not repeat the same mistakes and his comment was “ so let's not try to limit access to guns. just try to detect them by something that detects chips just as well. 
    i guess if you can't find the guns at least they can find the chips.”

    The very next post was mine that you said was very odd. I was responding to that. every time I say AI will get better and not repeat the same mistakes, he makes comments like “let me know when people use potato chips as a weapon.” Or something like that. Weapons are in schools every day. If AI can reduce that, it’s a good thing.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,815
    mace1229 said:
    brianlux said:
    mace1229 said:
    Detecting guns in school doesn’t mean you can’t restrict who has them to begin with. It’s not an either-or.

    Your instance to die on this hill of making fun of using AI to detect weapons in schools is very odd to me. You act like it can never improve, no changes will ever be made and any kid who brings chips to school will be arrested. It’s very odd. Keeping guns out of schools is good. You shouldn’t have an issue with this.

    Who you are talking about?  Who said things can't improve?  Blind accusations. Talk about very odd.
    It wasn’t a blind accusation. I thought I had replied to gimme. But the previous post was him responding to me, and we commented on each others post several times, so it should have been fairly easy to see who I was talking about and not claim it’s a very odd blind accusation.  It was clear by the language I was referring to a specific comment. Really don’t know why you’d think it was a blind accusation and respond like that. Read the previous post and it was obvious.

    For clarity, I had defended using AI to detect guns in schools, said it will improve and not repeat the same mistakes and his comment was “ so let's not try to limit access to guns. just try to detect them by something that detects chips just as well. 
    i guess if you can't find the guns at least they can find the chips.”

    The very next post was mine that you said was very odd. I was responding to that. every time I say AI will get better and not repeat the same mistakes, he makes comments like “let me know when people use potato chips as a weapon.” Or something like that. Weapons are in schools every day. If AI can reduce that, it’s a good thing.

    Yeah, OK, I see that now.  Gimmes post was on a different page (at least on my feed it was) so I didn't see it.  But still, using the quote feature is just not that difficult and would have made it plain to see who you were quoting.  
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 10,073
    edited November 10
    brianlux said:
    mace1229 said:
    brianlux said:
    mace1229 said:
    Detecting guns in school doesn’t mean you can’t restrict who has them to begin with. It’s not an either-or.

    Your instance to die on this hill of making fun of using AI to detect weapons in schools is very odd to me. You act like it can never improve, no changes will ever be made and any kid who brings chips to school will be arrested. It’s very odd. Keeping guns out of schools is good. You shouldn’t have an issue with this.

    Who you are talking about?  Who said things can't improve?  Blind accusations. Talk about very odd.
    It wasn’t a blind accusation. I thought I had replied to gimme. But the previous post was him responding to me, and we commented on each others post several times, so it should have been fairly easy to see who I was talking about and not claim it’s a very odd blind accusation.  It was clear by the language I was referring to a specific comment. Really don’t know why you’d think it was a blind accusation and respond like that. Read the previous post and it was obvious.

    For clarity, I had defended using AI to detect guns in schools, said it will improve and not repeat the same mistakes and his comment was “ so let's not try to limit access to guns. just try to detect them by something that detects chips just as well. 
    i guess if you can't find the guns at least they can find the chips.”

    The very next post was mine that you said was very odd. I was responding to that. every time I say AI will get better and not repeat the same mistakes, he makes comments like “let me know when people use potato chips as a weapon.” Or something like that. Weapons are in schools every day. If AI can reduce that, it’s a good thing.

    Yeah, OK, I see that now.  Gimmes post was on a different page (at least on my feed it was) so I didn't see it.  But still, using the quote feature is just not that difficult and would have made it plain to see who you were quoting.  
    Not using the quote wasn't intentional. I probably clicked it, but was a mis-click and didn't notice. Or maybe I just forgot. I see it happen a lot of the time. Usually if I don't know who or what a person is talking about, I read the previous post or just move on. I've used the quote feature many times and know it isn't difficult. 
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,815
    Moving on.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 45,376
    Google’s top AI executive seeks the profound over profits and the “prosaic” - https://www.reuters.com/investigations/googles-top-ai-executive-seeks-profound-over-profits-prosaic-2025-11-13/
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 45,376
    Morgan Freeman is publicly denouncing the unauthorized use of AI to replicate his iconic voice, calling it a violation of his intellectual property.

    The Oscar-winning actor’s deep, commanding voice has defined his career across film, TV, and music—from Driving Miss Daisy and The Shawshank Redemption to his award-winning narration in March of the Penguins. 

    But as AI increasingly replicates famous voices, Freeman, 88, says the technology has cost him valuable work and exploits his signature sound.

    https://www.blackenterprise.com/morgan-freeman-slams-ai-youre-robbing-me/
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,815
    edited November 15
    mickeyrat said:
    Morgan Freeman is publicly denouncing the unauthorized use of AI to replicate his iconic voice, calling it a violation of his intellectual property.

    The Oscar-winning actor’s deep, commanding voice has defined his career across film, TV, and music—from Driving Miss Daisy and The Shawshank Redemption to his award-winning narration in March of the Penguins. 

    But as AI increasingly replicates famous voices, Freeman, 88, says the technology has cost him valuable work and exploits his signature sound.

    https://www.blackenterprise.com/morgan-freeman-slams-ai-youre-robbing-me/

    It's sad and disturbing to see that sort of thing going on with AI.  Just this morning, I came across this urgent Substack article form musician John Strohm (formerly with The Blake Babies and Lemonheads):

    Go ahead and watch the Reel above from Andy Hall of Denver’s Infamous Stringdusters. Watch first, then let’s discuss.

    In case you couldn’t be bothered to watch, very briefly: Andy is a dobro aka resophonic guitar player. That’s an old-fashioned resonator guitar played with a metal slide, aka bar. Andy one of a handful of well-known professional dobro players in the greater bluegrass ecosystem. I’ve met him; he’s a cool guy.

    Somebody asked him to play a dobro solo on a track and sent him a sound file that already had a dobro solo. When he listened, he figured the client must have hired Jerry Douglas, a longtime Rounder artist who is universally regarded as the greatest dobro player ever. THE GOAT. Also a great guy: humble, funny, and kind…a living legend.

    Andy asked his client if he still needed a solo and the client said oh, that’s just an AI placeholder from Suno to give you an idea of what I want for the solo. Hall acknowledges that it’s a perfectly executed, beautiful, musical solo (“real, and perfect, and amazing”), and he’ll have to bring his best to come close. In closing, he urges his viewers to support live music and buy merch because “it’s getting weird.”

    WE ARE SO SCREWED

    The general consensus lately has been that AI is not quite good enough to make music we’ll truly care about - but it’s getting there. The more stolen music it gobbles up in training data, the better it gets.

    We’ve had all these dumb viral stories such as Bustin’ Rust or whatever it’s called about these rigged Billboard number one “hits” calculated to create outrage. We’ve been hearing all these predictions that AI will replace artists within a year. We have this vast online subculture of AI music sycophants and opportunists seeking to paint anyone (like me) demanding transparency and payment as pathetic Luddites who’ve lost step with the times.¹ It is TRULY getting weird = weird and dangerous.

    I’ve written many times that all music should be subject to opt-in licensure for AI training - it’s the only reasonable way forward. We need the right to decide when to license AI platforms, and consumers need to know when they’re consuming or buying AI slop. We’re at a critical juncture; Andy’s post is a perfect example of WHY we need an opt-in structure, transparency, and labeling for all AI music products immediately - along with policies from Spotify and other streamers to identify, prioritize, and elevate music that is primarily human-made, featuring the performances of living, breathing, uniquely talented human beings.

    Jerry Douglass is well loved in bluegrass circles, where he’s regarded as a founder and a genius. He’s a member of the Bluegrass Hall of Fame, a ten-time IBMA winner, and a two-time Grammy winner. If he didn’t quite make the Mount Rushmore of living bluegrass musicians, but he’d be on a short list for consideration. With that career alone, he’d make a nice living. But Jerry’s ambition has carried him well beyond the bluegrass community and audience. For example, he played in Mumford and Sons for a time. And, importantly, he has played on hundreds or maybe thousands of commercial country records as a featured soloist.

    If you hear a dobro on a hit country record, there’s a good chance it’s Jerry. That’s why the old AI machine plays like Jerry: because it’s trained on Jerry’s solos. Or maybe it’s Justin Moses, or Rob Ickes. Point is, it’s one of a few people, because there are only a few people who can play like that! Up until right now, if you wanted a world-class Dobro solo on your record, you’d have to pay premium union rates if you could even book them for your session. You get what you pay for. Until now.

    I caught up with a friend recently who manages a state-of-the-art music attribution AI model. Their technology can identify the fine-tuning training set for any AI output. They can tell what’s in it! Their technology can also direct the AI not to use certain data for an output. In other words, AI training rights can be actively managed. It isn’t just anybody’s guess what’s in the training set. It’s knowable information!

    Even if Suno isn’t (yet) able to crank out super compelling outputs, it does a very good job of mimicking good session musicianship. That’s because it’s trained on performances by good session musicians. While we’ve got our heads in trying to figure out how to get the copyright owners paid, what about the musicians? They’re the ones who are about to lose their business. Think about that: an AI platform steals your performances to train a model to play exactly like you, therefore putting you out of work. It’s criminal, right?

    There’s another viral act I checked out, another dumb viral story thanks to generative AI-forward label Hallwood Media. According to CNN, Hallwood won a “multi-million dollar bidding war” for an AI R&B “singer” going by the name Xania Monet. think about that: a multi-million dollar bidding war for someone who prompts Suno. It would be funny if it weren’t completely tragic.

    I’m not going to post Monet’s music, but I did check it out. The songs aren’t, a string of cliches, generic production, slick. But the voice…the voice is powerful. Just like Jerry Douglas on the dobro, there aren’t many people who can sing with that force, tone, and power. A heaping scoop of Beyonce, a smattering of Rhianna, a dash of Whitney - all varieties of iconic women. Those who can sing like that are both extremely talented AND invested tens of thousands of hours of hard work to get that good.

    What makes a great R&B song, or a country song for that matter? That’s right - it’s the voice. A voice doesn’t have to sound exactly like a particular singer to be stolen. If you steal the best qualities of a variety of voices, you just might build something that competes with the best singers. Once again, that’s theft.

    If attribution is the answer, then why aren’t we pursuing a solution built on transparency and integrity. If Jerry Douglas doesn’t want his work used to train AI, he should get to make that choice. The same goes for every distinctive player whose performances are heard on hit records. If AI can’t train on Jerry, or Justin or Rob or even Andy from the Stringdusters, then it won’t put those people out of work. There are plenty of very good dobro players who will happily contribute their performances to train AI in exchange for a reasonable fee. The best of the best should have the absolute right to gatekeeper their work to maintain their market advantage - not just over lesser players, but over lesser AI.

    As a musician and music rights advocate, this is all so obvious to me. We have to do it this way. To those in power, those making the deals: forget about market share. If you’re negotiating for your own huge company, you are also negotiating for the entire community of musicians, producers, arrangers, singers, and writers. The model we need is built on AI tools that will tell us exactly who made that dobro solo on the random guy’s demo so perfect, then an automated payment will be directed to the appropriate musician. If they figure out how to train their models without famous music, then congratulations to them. But if they steal from our best musicians using derivatives of their own music, we have failed generations of musicians.

    The ultimate dystopian nightmare is that the majority of working musicians, creative musicians, are recording music not for a human audience, but for AI training. People who care about music realize that the very best music-makers—singers, pickers, writers, producers—have dedicated their entire lives to developing the skills to operate at a professional level. Only the best of the best become well-known.

    I have some issues with the business culture of bluegrass (to be addressed in a future newsletter), but the musicianship at the highest level is absolutely magnificent. Virtuosos like Jerry or Sierra Hull, Billy Strings, Bela Fleck, Michael Cleveland are extraordinary. They’re comparable in their field to superstar athletes in their uniqueness.

    These musicians are so phemonmenal that only other virtuosos, other former child prodigies who dedicate their lives to the craft, can compete for the best gigs. It’s always been an exclusive club, until now. Now apparently anybody with a Suno subscription can have their transcendent level of musicianship for nothing. Please recognize how deeply WRONG this is, and how greedy and disrespectful these tech pirates are to our artistry. Jerry is one example among so many, across genres. Anything on the Internet is fair game for their plagiarism. Singers, players, writers, producers, on and on - all about to lose large parts of their livelihood to blatant theft by Big Tech.

    For music people like me, the only thing that matters more than music are the people we love - many of whom are musicians. This is an emergency. We need to get this right for the future of music and musicianship.

    1

    I may be old but I know a grift when I see one.


    If you have Instagram, look up Andy Hall there (link didn't work):


    Post edited by brianlux on
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 43,319
    brianlux said:
    mickeyrat said:
    Morgan Freeman is publicly denouncing the unauthorized use of AI to replicate his iconic voice, calling it a violation of his intellectual property.

    The Oscar-winning actor’s deep, commanding voice has defined his career across film, TV, and music—from Driving Miss Daisy and The Shawshank Redemption to his award-winning narration in March of the Penguins. 

    But as AI increasingly replicates famous voices, Freeman, 88, says the technology has cost him valuable work and exploits his signature sound.

    https://www.blackenterprise.com/morgan-freeman-slams-ai-youre-robbing-me/

    It's sad and disturbing to see that sort of thing going on with AI.  Just this morning, I came across this urgent Substack article form musician John Strohm (formerly with The Blake Babies and Lemonheads):

    Go ahead and watch the Reel above from Andy Hall of Denver’s Infamous Stringdusters. Watch first, then let’s discuss.

    In case you couldn’t be bothered to watch, very briefly: Andy is a dobro aka resophonic guitar player. That’s an old-fashioned resonator guitar played with a metal slide, aka bar. Andy one of a handful of well-known professional dobro players in the greater bluegrass ecosystem. I’ve met him; he’s a cool guy.

    Somebody asked him to play a dobro solo on a track and sent him a sound file that already had a dobro solo. When he listened, he figured the client must have hired Jerry Douglas, a longtime Rounder artist who is universally regarded as the greatest dobro player ever. THE GOAT. Also a great guy: humble, funny, and kind…a living legend.

    Andy asked his client if he still needed a solo and the client said oh, that’s just an AI placeholder from Suno to give you an idea of what I want for the solo. Hall acknowledges that it’s a perfectly executed, beautiful, musical solo (“real, and perfect, and amazing”), and he’ll have to bring his best to come close. In closing, he urges his viewers to support live music and buy merch because “it’s getting weird.”

    WE ARE SO SCREWED

    The general consensus lately has been that AI is not quite good enough to make music we’ll truly care about - but it’s getting there. The more stolen music it gobbles up in training data, the better it gets.

    We’ve had all these dumb viral stories such as Bustin’ Rust or whatever it’s called about these rigged Billboard number one “hits” calculated to create outrage. We’ve been hearing all these predictions that AI will replace artists within a year. We have this vast online subculture of AI music sycophants and opportunists seeking to paint anyone (like me) demanding transparency and payment as pathetic Luddites who’ve lost step with the times.¹ It is TRULY getting weird = weird and dangerous.

    I’ve written many times that all music should be subject to opt-in licensure for AI training - it’s the only reasonable way forward. We need the right to decide when to license AI platforms, and consumers need to know when they’re consuming or buying AI slop. We’re at a critical juncture; Andy’s post is a perfect example of WHY we need an opt-in structure, transparency, and labeling for all AI music products immediately - along with policies from Spotify and other streamers to identify, prioritize, and elevate music that is primarily human-made, featuring the performances of living, breathing, uniquely talented human beings.

    Jerry Douglass is well loved in bluegrass circles, where he’s regarded as a founder and a genius. He’s a member of the Bluegrass Hall of Fame, a ten-time IBMA winner, and a two-time Grammy winner. If he didn’t quite make the Mount Rushmore of living bluegrass musicians, but he’d be on a short list for consideration. With that career alone, he’d make a nice living. But Jerry’s ambition has carried him well beyond the bluegrass community and audience. For example, he played in Mumford and Sons for a time. And, importantly, he has played on hundreds or maybe thousands of commercial country records as a featured soloist.

    If you hear a dobro on a hit country record, there’s a good chance it’s Jerry. That’s why the old AI machine plays like Jerry: because it’s trained on Jerry’s solos. Or maybe it’s Justin Moses, or Rob Ickes. Point is, it’s one of a few people, because there are only a few people who can play like that! Up until right now, if you wanted a world-class Dobro solo on your record, you’d have to pay premium union rates if you could even book them for your session. You get what you pay for. Until now.

    I caught up with a friend recently who manages a state-of-the-art music attribution AI model. Their technology can identify the fine-tuning training set for any AI output. They can tell what’s in it! Their technology can also direct the AI not to use certain data for an output. In other words, AI training rights can be actively managed. It isn’t just anybody’s guess what’s in the training set. It’s knowable information!

    Even if Suno isn’t (yet) able to crank out super compelling outputs, it does a very good job of mimicking good session musicianship. That’s because it’s trained on performances by good session musicians. While we’ve got our heads in trying to figure out how to get the copyright owners paid, what about the musicians? They’re the ones who are about to lose their business. Think about that: an AI platform steals your performances to train a model to play exactly like you, therefore putting you out of work. It’s criminal, right?

    There’s another viral act I checked out, another dumb viral story thanks to generative AI-forward label Hallwood Media. According to CNN, Hallwood won a “multi-million dollar bidding war” for an AI R&B “singer” going by the name Xania Monet. think about that: a multi-million dollar bidding war for someone who prompts Suno. It would be funny if it weren’t completely tragic.

    I’m not going to post Monet’s music, but I did check it out. The songs aren’t, a string of cliches, generic production, slick. But the voice…the voice is powerful. Just like Jerry Douglas on the dobro, there aren’t many people who can sing with that force, tone, and power. A heaping scoop of Beyonce, a smattering of Rhianna, a dash of Whitney - all varieties of iconic women. Those who can sing like that are both extremely talented AND invested tens of thousands of hours of hard work to get that good.

    What makes a great R&B song, or a country song for that matter? That’s right - it’s the voice. A voice doesn’t have to sound exactly like a particular singer to be stolen. If you steal the best qualities of a variety of voices, you just might build something that competes with the best singers. Once again, that’s theft.

    If attribution is the answer, then why aren’t we pursuing a solution built on transparency and integrity. If Jerry Douglas doesn’t want his work used to train AI, he should get to make that choice. The same goes for every distinctive player whose performances are heard on hit records. If AI can’t train on Jerry, or Justin or Rob or even Andy from the Stringdusters, then it won’t put those people out of work. There are plenty of very good dobro players who will happily contribute their performances to train AI in exchange for a reasonable fee. The best of the best should have the absolute right to gatekeeper their work to maintain their market advantage - not just over lesser players, but over lesser AI.

    As a musician and music rights advocate, this is all so obvious to me. We have to do it this way. To those in power, those making the deals: forget about market share. If you’re negotiating for your own huge company, you are also negotiating for the entire community of musicians, producers, arrangers, singers, and writers. The model we need is built on AI tools that will tell us exactly who made that dobro solo on the random guy’s demo so perfect, then an automated payment will be directed to the appropriate musician. If they figure out how to train their models without famous music, then congratulations to them. But if they steal from our best musicians using derivatives of their own music, we have failed generations of musicians.

    The ultimate dystopian nightmare is that the majority of working musicians, creative musicians, are recording music not for a human audience, but for AI training. People who care about music realize that the very best music-makers—singers, pickers, writers, producers—have dedicated their entire lives to developing the skills to operate at a professional level. Only the best of the best become well-known.

    I have some issues with the business culture of bluegrass (to be addressed in a future newsletter), but the musicianship at the highest level is absolutely magnificent. Virtuosos like Jerry or Sierra Hull, Billy Strings, Bela Fleck, Michael Cleveland are extraordinary. They’re comparable in their field to superstar athletes in their uniqueness.

    These musicians are so phemonmenal that only other virtuosos, other former child prodigies who dedicate their lives to the craft, can compete for the best gigs. It’s always been an exclusive club, until now. Now apparently anybody with a Suno subscription can have their transcendent level of musicianship for nothing. Please recognize how deeply WRONG this is, and how greedy and disrespectful these tech pirates are to our artistry. Jerry is one example among so many, across genres. Anything on the Internet is fair game for their plagiarism. Singers, players, writers, producers, on and on - all about to lose large parts of their livelihood to blatant theft by Big Tech.

    For music people like me, the only thing that matters more than music are the people we love - many of whom are musicians. This is an emergency. We need to get this right for the future of music and musicianship.

    1

    I may be old but I know a grift when I see one.


    If you have Instagram, look up Andy Hall there (link didn't work):


     * The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.


    Totally agree that it’s a crime to be ripping off the artists and not preventing their creative content from being used without compensation or permission. Birth certificates should come with a copyright that states everything about you from your voice to your physical appearance is yours and to use any aspect of it without written expressed consent is illegal and subject to civil and criminal penalties. I wonder how Denmark is doing it?

    AI and greed is going to kill everything.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,815
    brianlux said:
    mickeyrat said:
    Morgan Freeman is publicly denouncing the unauthorized use of AI to replicate his iconic voice, calling it a violation of his intellectual property.

    The Oscar-winning actor’s deep, commanding voice has defined his career across film, TV, and music—from Driving Miss Daisy and The Shawshank Redemption to his award-winning narration in March of the Penguins. 

    But as AI increasingly replicates famous voices, Freeman, 88, says the technology has cost him valuable work and exploits his signature sound.

    https://www.blackenterprise.com/morgan-freeman-slams-ai-youre-robbing-me/

    It's sad and disturbing to see that sort of thing going on with AI.  Just this morning, I came across this urgent Substack article form musician John Strohm (formerly with The Blake Babies and Lemonheads):

    Go ahead and watch the Reel above from Andy Hall of Denver’s Infamous Stringdusters. Watch first, then let’s discuss.

    In case you couldn’t be bothered to watch, very briefly: Andy is a dobro aka resophonic guitar player. That’s an old-fashioned resonator guitar played with a metal slide, aka bar. Andy one of a handful of well-known professional dobro players in the greater bluegrass ecosystem. I’ve met him; he’s a cool guy.

    Somebody asked him to play a dobro solo on a track and sent him a sound file that already had a dobro solo. When he listened, he figured the client must have hired Jerry Douglas, a longtime Rounder artist who is universally regarded as the greatest dobro player ever. THE GOAT. Also a great guy: humble, funny, and kind…a living legend.

    Andy asked his client if he still needed a solo and the client said oh, that’s just an AI placeholder from Suno to give you an idea of what I want for the solo. Hall acknowledges that it’s a perfectly executed, beautiful, musical solo (“real, and perfect, and amazing”), and he’ll have to bring his best to come close. In closing, he urges his viewers to support live music and buy merch because “it’s getting weird.”

    WE ARE SO SCREWED

    The general consensus lately has been that AI is not quite good enough to make music we’ll truly care about - but it’s getting there. The more stolen music it gobbles up in training data, the better it gets.

    We’ve had all these dumb viral stories such as Bustin’ Rust or whatever it’s called about these rigged Billboard number one “hits” calculated to create outrage. We’ve been hearing all these predictions that AI will replace artists within a year. We have this vast online subculture of AI music sycophants and opportunists seeking to paint anyone (like me) demanding transparency and payment as pathetic Luddites who’ve lost step with the times.¹ It is TRULY getting weird = weird and dangerous.

    I’ve written many times that all music should be subject to opt-in licensure for AI training - it’s the only reasonable way forward. We need the right to decide when to license AI platforms, and consumers need to know when they’re consuming or buying AI slop. We’re at a critical juncture; Andy’s post is a perfect example of WHY we need an opt-in structure, transparency, and labeling for all AI music products immediately - along with policies from Spotify and other streamers to identify, prioritize, and elevate music that is primarily human-made, featuring the performances of living, breathing, uniquely talented human beings.

    Jerry Douglass is well loved in bluegrass circles, where he’s regarded as a founder and a genius. He’s a member of the Bluegrass Hall of Fame, a ten-time IBMA winner, and a two-time Grammy winner. If he didn’t quite make the Mount Rushmore of living bluegrass musicians, but he’d be on a short list for consideration. With that career alone, he’d make a nice living. But Jerry’s ambition has carried him well beyond the bluegrass community and audience. For example, he played in Mumford and Sons for a time. And, importantly, he has played on hundreds or maybe thousands of commercial country records as a featured soloist.

    If you hear a dobro on a hit country record, there’s a good chance it’s Jerry. That’s why the old AI machine plays like Jerry: because it’s trained on Jerry’s solos. Or maybe it’s Justin Moses, or Rob Ickes. Point is, it’s one of a few people, because there are only a few people who can play like that! Up until right now, if you wanted a world-class Dobro solo on your record, you’d have to pay premium union rates if you could even book them for your session. You get what you pay for. Until now.

    I caught up with a friend recently who manages a state-of-the-art music attribution AI model. Their technology can identify the fine-tuning training set for any AI output. They can tell what’s in it! Their technology can also direct the AI not to use certain data for an output. In other words, AI training rights can be actively managed. It isn’t just anybody’s guess what’s in the training set. It’s knowable information!

    Even if Suno isn’t (yet) able to crank out super compelling outputs, it does a very good job of mimicking good session musicianship. That’s because it’s trained on performances by good session musicians. While we’ve got our heads in trying to figure out how to get the copyright owners paid, what about the musicians? They’re the ones who are about to lose their business. Think about that: an AI platform steals your performances to train a model to play exactly like you, therefore putting you out of work. It’s criminal, right?

    There’s another viral act I checked out, another dumb viral story thanks to generative AI-forward label Hallwood Media. According to CNN, Hallwood won a “multi-million dollar bidding war” for an AI R&B “singer” going by the name Xania Monet. think about that: a multi-million dollar bidding war for someone who prompts Suno. It would be funny if it weren’t completely tragic.

    I’m not going to post Monet’s music, but I did check it out. The songs aren’t, a string of cliches, generic production, slick. But the voice…the voice is powerful. Just like Jerry Douglas on the dobro, there aren’t many people who can sing with that force, tone, and power. A heaping scoop of Beyonce, a smattering of Rhianna, a dash of Whitney - all varieties of iconic women. Those who can sing like that are both extremely talented AND invested tens of thousands of hours of hard work to get that good.

    What makes a great R&B song, or a country song for that matter? That’s right - it’s the voice. A voice doesn’t have to sound exactly like a particular singer to be stolen. If you steal the best qualities of a variety of voices, you just might build something that competes with the best singers. Once again, that’s theft.

    If attribution is the answer, then why aren’t we pursuing a solution built on transparency and integrity. If Jerry Douglas doesn’t want his work used to train AI, he should get to make that choice. The same goes for every distinctive player whose performances are heard on hit records. If AI can’t train on Jerry, or Justin or Rob or even Andy from the Stringdusters, then it won’t put those people out of work. There are plenty of very good dobro players who will happily contribute their performances to train AI in exchange for a reasonable fee. The best of the best should have the absolute right to gatekeeper their work to maintain their market advantage - not just over lesser players, but over lesser AI.

    As a musician and music rights advocate, this is all so obvious to me. We have to do it this way. To those in power, those making the deals: forget about market share. If you’re negotiating for your own huge company, you are also negotiating for the entire community of musicians, producers, arrangers, singers, and writers. The model we need is built on AI tools that will tell us exactly who made that dobro solo on the random guy’s demo so perfect, then an automated payment will be directed to the appropriate musician. If they figure out how to train their models without famous music, then congratulations to them. But if they steal from our best musicians using derivatives of their own music, we have failed generations of musicians.

    The ultimate dystopian nightmare is that the majority of working musicians, creative musicians, are recording music not for a human audience, but for AI training. People who care about music realize that the very best music-makers—singers, pickers, writers, producers—have dedicated their entire lives to developing the skills to operate at a professional level. Only the best of the best become well-known.

    I have some issues with the business culture of bluegrass (to be addressed in a future newsletter), but the musicianship at the highest level is absolutely magnificent. Virtuosos like Jerry or Sierra Hull, Billy Strings, Bela Fleck, Michael Cleveland are extraordinary. They’re comparable in their field to superstar athletes in their uniqueness.

    These musicians are so phemonmenal that only other virtuosos, other former child prodigies who dedicate their lives to the craft, can compete for the best gigs. It’s always been an exclusive club, until now. Now apparently anybody with a Suno subscription can have their transcendent level of musicianship for nothing. Please recognize how deeply WRONG this is, and how greedy and disrespectful these tech pirates are to our artistry. Jerry is one example among so many, across genres. Anything on the Internet is fair game for their plagiarism. Singers, players, writers, producers, on and on - all about to lose large parts of their livelihood to blatant theft by Big Tech.

    For music people like me, the only thing that matters more than music are the people we love - many of whom are musicians. This is an emergency. We need to get this right for the future of music and musicianship.

    1

    I may be old but I know a grift when I see one.


    If you have Instagram, look up Andy Hall there (link didn't work):


     * The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.


    Totally agree that it’s a crime to be ripping off the artists and not preventing their creative content from being used without compensation or permission. Birth certificates should come with a copyright that states everything about you from your voice to your physical appearance is yours and to use any aspect of it without written expressed consent is illegal and subject to civil and criminal penalties. I wonder how Denmark is doing it?

    AI and greed is going to kill everything.

    Agreed!  And some of those restrictions need to happen fast before AI gives us all a virtual finger!
    Robot Hand Showing Middle Finger Isolated On Free Stock Photo and Image  191570834

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 43,319
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    mickeyrat said:
    Morgan Freeman is publicly denouncing the unauthorized use of AI to replicate his iconic voice, calling it a violation of his intellectual property.

    The Oscar-winning actor’s deep, commanding voice has defined his career across film, TV, and music—from Driving Miss Daisy and The Shawshank Redemption to his award-winning narration in March of the Penguins. 

    But as AI increasingly replicates famous voices, Freeman, 88, says the technology has cost him valuable work and exploits his signature sound.

    https://www.blackenterprise.com/morgan-freeman-slams-ai-youre-robbing-me/

    It's sad and disturbing to see that sort of thing going on with AI.  Just this morning, I came across this urgent Substack article form musician John Strohm (formerly with The Blake Babies and Lemonheads):

    Go ahead and watch the Reel above from Andy Hall of Denver’s Infamous Stringdusters. Watch first, then let’s discuss.

    In case you couldn’t be bothered to watch, very briefly: Andy is a dobro aka resophonic guitar player. That’s an old-fashioned resonator guitar played with a metal slide, aka bar. Andy one of a handful of well-known professional dobro players in the greater bluegrass ecosystem. I’ve met him; he’s a cool guy.

    Somebody asked him to play a dobro solo on a track and sent him a sound file that already had a dobro solo. When he listened, he figured the client must have hired Jerry Douglas, a longtime Rounder artist who is universally regarded as the greatest dobro player ever. THE GOAT. Also a great guy: humble, funny, and kind…a living legend.

    Andy asked his client if he still needed a solo and the client said oh, that’s just an AI placeholder from Suno to give you an idea of what I want for the solo. Hall acknowledges that it’s a perfectly executed, beautiful, musical solo (“real, and perfect, and amazing”), and he’ll have to bring his best to come close. In closing, he urges his viewers to support live music and buy merch because “it’s getting weird.”

    WE ARE SO SCREWED

    The general consensus lately has been that AI is not quite good enough to make music we’ll truly care about - but it’s getting there. The more stolen music it gobbles up in training data, the better it gets.

    We’ve had all these dumb viral stories such as Bustin’ Rust or whatever it’s called about these rigged Billboard number one “hits” calculated to create outrage. We’ve been hearing all these predictions that AI will replace artists within a year. We have this vast online subculture of AI music sycophants and opportunists seeking to paint anyone (like me) demanding transparency and payment as pathetic Luddites who’ve lost step with the times.¹ It is TRULY getting weird = weird and dangerous.

    I’ve written many times that all music should be subject to opt-in licensure for AI training - it’s the only reasonable way forward. We need the right to decide when to license AI platforms, and consumers need to know when they’re consuming or buying AI slop. We’re at a critical juncture; Andy’s post is a perfect example of WHY we need an opt-in structure, transparency, and labeling for all AI music products immediately - along with policies from Spotify and other streamers to identify, prioritize, and elevate music that is primarily human-made, featuring the performances of living, breathing, uniquely talented human beings.

    Jerry Douglass is well loved in bluegrass circles, where he’s regarded as a founder and a genius. He’s a member of the Bluegrass Hall of Fame, a ten-time IBMA winner, and a two-time Grammy winner. If he didn’t quite make the Mount Rushmore of living bluegrass musicians, but he’d be on a short list for consideration. With that career alone, he’d make a nice living. But Jerry’s ambition has carried him well beyond the bluegrass community and audience. For example, he played in Mumford and Sons for a time. And, importantly, he has played on hundreds or maybe thousands of commercial country records as a featured soloist.

    If you hear a dobro on a hit country record, there’s a good chance it’s Jerry. That’s why the old AI machine plays like Jerry: because it’s trained on Jerry’s solos. Or maybe it’s Justin Moses, or Rob Ickes. Point is, it’s one of a few people, because there are only a few people who can play like that! Up until right now, if you wanted a world-class Dobro solo on your record, you’d have to pay premium union rates if you could even book them for your session. You get what you pay for. Until now.

    I caught up with a friend recently who manages a state-of-the-art music attribution AI model. Their technology can identify the fine-tuning training set for any AI output. They can tell what’s in it! Their technology can also direct the AI not to use certain data for an output. In other words, AI training rights can be actively managed. It isn’t just anybody’s guess what’s in the training set. It’s knowable information!

    Even if Suno isn’t (yet) able to crank out super compelling outputs, it does a very good job of mimicking good session musicianship. That’s because it’s trained on performances by good session musicians. While we’ve got our heads in trying to figure out how to get the copyright owners paid, what about the musicians? They’re the ones who are about to lose their business. Think about that: an AI platform steals your performances to train a model to play exactly like you, therefore putting you out of work. It’s criminal, right?

    There’s another viral act I checked out, another dumb viral story thanks to generative AI-forward label Hallwood Media. According to CNN, Hallwood won a “multi-million dollar bidding war” for an AI R&B “singer” going by the name Xania Monet. think about that: a multi-million dollar bidding war for someone who prompts Suno. It would be funny if it weren’t completely tragic.

    I’m not going to post Monet’s music, but I did check it out. The songs aren’t, a string of cliches, generic production, slick. But the voice…the voice is powerful. Just like Jerry Douglas on the dobro, there aren’t many people who can sing with that force, tone, and power. A heaping scoop of Beyonce, a smattering of Rhianna, a dash of Whitney - all varieties of iconic women. Those who can sing like that are both extremely talented AND invested tens of thousands of hours of hard work to get that good.

    What makes a great R&B song, or a country song for that matter? That’s right - it’s the voice. A voice doesn’t have to sound exactly like a particular singer to be stolen. If you steal the best qualities of a variety of voices, you just might build something that competes with the best singers. Once again, that’s theft.

    If attribution is the answer, then why aren’t we pursuing a solution built on transparency and integrity. If Jerry Douglas doesn’t want his work used to train AI, he should get to make that choice. The same goes for every distinctive player whose performances are heard on hit records. If AI can’t train on Jerry, or Justin or Rob or even Andy from the Stringdusters, then it won’t put those people out of work. There are plenty of very good dobro players who will happily contribute their performances to train AI in exchange for a reasonable fee. The best of the best should have the absolute right to gatekeeper their work to maintain their market advantage - not just over lesser players, but over lesser AI.

    As a musician and music rights advocate, this is all so obvious to me. We have to do it this way. To those in power, those making the deals: forget about market share. If you’re negotiating for your own huge company, you are also negotiating for the entire community of musicians, producers, arrangers, singers, and writers. The model we need is built on AI tools that will tell us exactly who made that dobro solo on the random guy’s demo so perfect, then an automated payment will be directed to the appropriate musician. If they figure out how to train their models without famous music, then congratulations to them. But if they steal from our best musicians using derivatives of their own music, we have failed generations of musicians.

    The ultimate dystopian nightmare is that the majority of working musicians, creative musicians, are recording music not for a human audience, but for AI training. People who care about music realize that the very best music-makers—singers, pickers, writers, producers—have dedicated their entire lives to developing the skills to operate at a professional level. Only the best of the best become well-known.

    I have some issues with the business culture of bluegrass (to be addressed in a future newsletter), but the musicianship at the highest level is absolutely magnificent. Virtuosos like Jerry or Sierra Hull, Billy Strings, Bela Fleck, Michael Cleveland are extraordinary. They’re comparable in their field to superstar athletes in their uniqueness.

    These musicians are so phemonmenal that only other virtuosos, other former child prodigies who dedicate their lives to the craft, can compete for the best gigs. It’s always been an exclusive club, until now. Now apparently anybody with a Suno subscription can have their transcendent level of musicianship for nothing. Please recognize how deeply WRONG this is, and how greedy and disrespectful these tech pirates are to our artistry. Jerry is one example among so many, across genres. Anything on the Internet is fair game for their plagiarism. Singers, players, writers, producers, on and on - all about to lose large parts of their livelihood to blatant theft by Big Tech.

    For music people like me, the only thing that matters more than music are the people we love - many of whom are musicians. This is an emergency. We need to get this right for the future of music and musicianship.

    1

    I may be old but I know a grift when I see one.


    If you have Instagram, look up Andy Hall there (link didn't work):


     * The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.


    Totally agree that it’s a crime to be ripping off the artists and not preventing their creative content from being used without compensation or permission. Birth certificates should come with a copyright that states everything about you from your voice to your physical appearance is yours and to use any aspect of it without written expressed consent is illegal and subject to civil and criminal penalties. I wonder how Denmark is doing it?

    AI and greed is going to kill everything.

    Agreed!  And some of those restrictions need to happen fast before AI gives us all a virtual finger!
    Robot Hand Showing Middle Finger Isolated On Free Stock Photo and Image  191570834

     * The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

    The issue with Morgan Freeman is particularly galling just because I’d know that voice anywhere but it applies to any artist and their output or creative product. But he’s also 88, will unlikely see any type of cease and desist or royalties and will pass on with no resolution or ability of his estate to benefit from what is/was rightly his. And all the other artists impacted as well? Just bullshit. And if this is allowed to continue, what’s the incentive for emerging artists or any actor or musician to take up the art if they know AI will rip it off and they’ll never benefit from the fruit of their labour or struggle?

    What great times we’re living in, eh?


    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 45,376
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    mickeyrat said:
    Morgan Freeman is publicly denouncing the unauthorized use of AI to replicate his iconic voice, calling it a violation of his intellectual property.

    The Oscar-winning actor’s deep, commanding voice has defined his career across film, TV, and music—from Driving Miss Daisy and The Shawshank Redemption to his award-winning narration in March of the Penguins. 

    But as AI increasingly replicates famous voices, Freeman, 88, says the technology has cost him valuable work and exploits his signature sound.

    https://www.blackenterprise.com/morgan-freeman-slams-ai-youre-robbing-me/

    It's sad and disturbing to see that sort of thing going on with AI.  Just this morning, I came across this urgent Substack article form musician John Strohm (formerly with The Blake Babies and Lemonheads):

    Go ahead and watch the Reel above from Andy Hall of Denver’s Infamous Stringdusters. Watch first, then let’s discuss.

    In case you couldn’t be bothered to watch, very briefly: Andy is a dobro aka resophonic guitar player. That’s an old-fashioned resonator guitar played with a metal slide, aka bar. Andy one of a handful of well-known professional dobro players in the greater bluegrass ecosystem. I’ve met him; he’s a cool guy.

    Somebody asked him to play a dobro solo on a track and sent him a sound file that already had a dobro solo. When he listened, he figured the client must have hired Jerry Douglas, a longtime Rounder artist who is universally regarded as the greatest dobro player ever. THE GOAT. Also a great guy: humble, funny, and kind…a living legend.

    Andy asked his client if he still needed a solo and the client said oh, that’s just an AI placeholder from Suno to give you an idea of what I want for the solo. Hall acknowledges that it’s a perfectly executed, beautiful, musical solo (“real, and perfect, and amazing”), and he’ll have to bring his best to come close. In closing, he urges his viewers to support live music and buy merch because “it’s getting weird.”

    WE ARE SO SCREWED

    The general consensus lately has been that AI is not quite good enough to make music we’ll truly care about - but it’s getting there. The more stolen music it gobbles up in training data, the better it gets.

    We’ve had all these dumb viral stories such as Bustin’ Rust or whatever it’s called about these rigged Billboard number one “hits” calculated to create outrage. We’ve been hearing all these predictions that AI will replace artists within a year. We have this vast online subculture of AI music sycophants and opportunists seeking to paint anyone (like me) demanding transparency and payment as pathetic Luddites who’ve lost step with the times.¹ It is TRULY getting weird = weird and dangerous.

    I’ve written many times that all music should be subject to opt-in licensure for AI training - it’s the only reasonable way forward. We need the right to decide when to license AI platforms, and consumers need to know when they’re consuming or buying AI slop. We’re at a critical juncture; Andy’s post is a perfect example of WHY we need an opt-in structure, transparency, and labeling for all AI music products immediately - along with policies from Spotify and other streamers to identify, prioritize, and elevate music that is primarily human-made, featuring the performances of living, breathing, uniquely talented human beings.

    Jerry Douglass is well loved in bluegrass circles, where he’s regarded as a founder and a genius. He’s a member of the Bluegrass Hall of Fame, a ten-time IBMA winner, and a two-time Grammy winner. If he didn’t quite make the Mount Rushmore of living bluegrass musicians, but he’d be on a short list for consideration. With that career alone, he’d make a nice living. But Jerry’s ambition has carried him well beyond the bluegrass community and audience. For example, he played in Mumford and Sons for a time. And, importantly, he has played on hundreds or maybe thousands of commercial country records as a featured soloist.

    If you hear a dobro on a hit country record, there’s a good chance it’s Jerry. That’s why the old AI machine plays like Jerry: because it’s trained on Jerry’s solos. Or maybe it’s Justin Moses, or Rob Ickes. Point is, it’s one of a few people, because there are only a few people who can play like that! Up until right now, if you wanted a world-class Dobro solo on your record, you’d have to pay premium union rates if you could even book them for your session. You get what you pay for. Until now.

    I caught up with a friend recently who manages a state-of-the-art music attribution AI model. Their technology can identify the fine-tuning training set for any AI output. They can tell what’s in it! Their technology can also direct the AI not to use certain data for an output. In other words, AI training rights can be actively managed. It isn’t just anybody’s guess what’s in the training set. It’s knowable information!

    Even if Suno isn’t (yet) able to crank out super compelling outputs, it does a very good job of mimicking good session musicianship. That’s because it’s trained on performances by good session musicians. While we’ve got our heads in trying to figure out how to get the copyright owners paid, what about the musicians? They’re the ones who are about to lose their business. Think about that: an AI platform steals your performances to train a model to play exactly like you, therefore putting you out of work. It’s criminal, right?

    There’s another viral act I checked out, another dumb viral story thanks to generative AI-forward label Hallwood Media. According to CNN, Hallwood won a “multi-million dollar bidding war” for an AI R&B “singer” going by the name Xania Monet. think about that: a multi-million dollar bidding war for someone who prompts Suno. It would be funny if it weren’t completely tragic.

    I’m not going to post Monet’s music, but I did check it out. The songs aren’t, a string of cliches, generic production, slick. But the voice…the voice is powerful. Just like Jerry Douglas on the dobro, there aren’t many people who can sing with that force, tone, and power. A heaping scoop of Beyonce, a smattering of Rhianna, a dash of Whitney - all varieties of iconic women. Those who can sing like that are both extremely talented AND invested tens of thousands of hours of hard work to get that good.

    What makes a great R&B song, or a country song for that matter? That’s right - it’s the voice. A voice doesn’t have to sound exactly like a particular singer to be stolen. If you steal the best qualities of a variety of voices, you just might build something that competes with the best singers. Once again, that’s theft.

    If attribution is the answer, then why aren’t we pursuing a solution built on transparency and integrity. If Jerry Douglas doesn’t want his work used to train AI, he should get to make that choice. The same goes for every distinctive player whose performances are heard on hit records. If AI can’t train on Jerry, or Justin or Rob or even Andy from the Stringdusters, then it won’t put those people out of work. There are plenty of very good dobro players who will happily contribute their performances to train AI in exchange for a reasonable fee. The best of the best should have the absolute right to gatekeeper their work to maintain their market advantage - not just over lesser players, but over lesser AI.

    As a musician and music rights advocate, this is all so obvious to me. We have to do it this way. To those in power, those making the deals: forget about market share. If you’re negotiating for your own huge company, you are also negotiating for the entire community of musicians, producers, arrangers, singers, and writers. The model we need is built on AI tools that will tell us exactly who made that dobro solo on the random guy’s demo so perfect, then an automated payment will be directed to the appropriate musician. If they figure out how to train their models without famous music, then congratulations to them. But if they steal from our best musicians using derivatives of their own music, we have failed generations of musicians.

    The ultimate dystopian nightmare is that the majority of working musicians, creative musicians, are recording music not for a human audience, but for AI training. People who care about music realize that the very best music-makers—singers, pickers, writers, producers—have dedicated their entire lives to developing the skills to operate at a professional level. Only the best of the best become well-known.

    I have some issues with the business culture of bluegrass (to be addressed in a future newsletter), but the musicianship at the highest level is absolutely magnificent. Virtuosos like Jerry or Sierra Hull, Billy Strings, Bela Fleck, Michael Cleveland are extraordinary. They’re comparable in their field to superstar athletes in their uniqueness.

    These musicians are so phemonmenal that only other virtuosos, other former child prodigies who dedicate their lives to the craft, can compete for the best gigs. It’s always been an exclusive club, until now. Now apparently anybody with a Suno subscription can have their transcendent level of musicianship for nothing. Please recognize how deeply WRONG this is, and how greedy and disrespectful these tech pirates are to our artistry. Jerry is one example among so many, across genres. Anything on the Internet is fair game for their plagiarism. Singers, players, writers, producers, on and on - all about to lose large parts of their livelihood to blatant theft by Big Tech.

    For music people like me, the only thing that matters more than music are the people we love - many of whom are musicians. This is an emergency. We need to get this right for the future of music and musicianship.

    1

    I may be old but I know a grift when I see one.


    If you have Instagram, look up Andy Hall there (link didn't work):


     * The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.


    Totally agree that it’s a crime to be ripping off the artists and not preventing their creative content from being used without compensation or permission. Birth certificates should come with a copyright that states everything about you from your voice to your physical appearance is yours and to use any aspect of it without written expressed consent is illegal and subject to civil and criminal penalties. I wonder how Denmark is doing it?

    AI and greed is going to kill everything.

    Agreed!  And some of those restrictions need to happen fast before AI gives us all a virtual finger!
    Robot Hand Showing Middle Finger Isolated On Free Stock Photo and Image  191570834

     * The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

    The issue with Morgan Freeman is particularly galling just because I’d know that voice anywhere but it applies to any artist and their output or creative product. But he’s also 88, will unlikely see any type of cease and desist or royalties and will pass on with no resolution or ability of his estate to benefit from what is/was rightly his. And all the other artists impacted as well? Just bullshit. And if this is allowed to continue, what’s the incentive for emerging artists or any actor or musician to take up the art if they know AI will rip it off and they’ll never benefit from the fruit of their labour or struggle?

    What great times we’re living in, eh?



    his heirs might though.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,997
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    mickeyrat said:
    Morgan Freeman is publicly denouncing the unauthorized use of AI to replicate his iconic voice, calling it a violation of his intellectual property.

    The Oscar-winning actor’s deep, commanding voice has defined his career across film, TV, and music—from Driving Miss Daisy and The Shawshank Redemption to his award-winning narration in March of the Penguins. 

    But as AI increasingly replicates famous voices, Freeman, 88, says the technology has cost him valuable work and exploits his signature sound.

    https://www.blackenterprise.com/morgan-freeman-slams-ai-youre-robbing-me/

    It's sad and disturbing to see that sort of thing going on with AI.  Just this morning, I came across this urgent Substack article form musician John Strohm (formerly with The Blake Babies and Lemonheads):

    Go ahead and watch the Reel above from Andy Hall of Denver’s Infamous Stringdusters. Watch first, then let’s discuss.

    In case you couldn’t be bothered to watch, very briefly: Andy is a dobro aka resophonic guitar player. That’s an old-fashioned resonator guitar played with a metal slide, aka bar. Andy one of a handful of well-known professional dobro players in the greater bluegrass ecosystem. I’ve met him; he’s a cool guy.

    Somebody asked him to play a dobro solo on a track and sent him a sound file that already had a dobro solo. When he listened, he figured the client must have hired Jerry Douglas, a longtime Rounder artist who is universally regarded as the greatest dobro player ever. THE GOAT. Also a great guy: humble, funny, and kind…a living legend.

    Andy asked his client if he still needed a solo and the client said oh, that’s just an AI placeholder from Suno to give you an idea of what I want for the solo. Hall acknowledges that it’s a perfectly executed, beautiful, musical solo (“real, and perfect, and amazing”), and he’ll have to bring his best to come close. In closing, he urges his viewers to support live music and buy merch because “it’s getting weird.”

    WE ARE SO SCREWED

    The general consensus lately has been that AI is not quite good enough to make music we’ll truly care about - but it’s getting there. The more stolen music it gobbles up in training data, the better it gets.

    We’ve had all these dumb viral stories such as Bustin’ Rust or whatever it’s called about these rigged Billboard number one “hits” calculated to create outrage. We’ve been hearing all these predictions that AI will replace artists within a year. We have this vast online subculture of AI music sycophants and opportunists seeking to paint anyone (like me) demanding transparency and payment as pathetic Luddites who’ve lost step with the times.¹ It is TRULY getting weird = weird and dangerous.

    I’ve written many times that all music should be subject to opt-in licensure for AI training - it’s the only reasonable way forward. We need the right to decide when to license AI platforms, and consumers need to know when they’re consuming or buying AI slop. We’re at a critical juncture; Andy’s post is a perfect example of WHY we need an opt-in structure, transparency, and labeling for all AI music products immediately - along with policies from Spotify and other streamers to identify, prioritize, and elevate music that is primarily human-made, featuring the performances of living, breathing, uniquely talented human beings.

    Jerry Douglass is well loved in bluegrass circles, where he’s regarded as a founder and a genius. He’s a member of the Bluegrass Hall of Fame, a ten-time IBMA winner, and a two-time Grammy winner. If he didn’t quite make the Mount Rushmore of living bluegrass musicians, but he’d be on a short list for consideration. With that career alone, he’d make a nice living. But Jerry’s ambition has carried him well beyond the bluegrass community and audience. For example, he played in Mumford and Sons for a time. And, importantly, he has played on hundreds or maybe thousands of commercial country records as a featured soloist.

    If you hear a dobro on a hit country record, there’s a good chance it’s Jerry. That’s why the old AI machine plays like Jerry: because it’s trained on Jerry’s solos. Or maybe it’s Justin Moses, or Rob Ickes. Point is, it’s one of a few people, because there are only a few people who can play like that! Up until right now, if you wanted a world-class Dobro solo on your record, you’d have to pay premium union rates if you could even book them for your session. You get what you pay for. Until now.

    I caught up with a friend recently who manages a state-of-the-art music attribution AI model. Their technology can identify the fine-tuning training set for any AI output. They can tell what’s in it! Their technology can also direct the AI not to use certain data for an output. In other words, AI training rights can be actively managed. It isn’t just anybody’s guess what’s in the training set. It’s knowable information!

    Even if Suno isn’t (yet) able to crank out super compelling outputs, it does a very good job of mimicking good session musicianship. That’s because it’s trained on performances by good session musicians. While we’ve got our heads in trying to figure out how to get the copyright owners paid, what about the musicians? They’re the ones who are about to lose their business. Think about that: an AI platform steals your performances to train a model to play exactly like you, therefore putting you out of work. It’s criminal, right?

    There’s another viral act I checked out, another dumb viral story thanks to generative AI-forward label Hallwood Media. According to CNN, Hallwood won a “multi-million dollar bidding war” for an AI R&B “singer” going by the name Xania Monet. think about that: a multi-million dollar bidding war for someone who prompts Suno. It would be funny if it weren’t completely tragic.

    I’m not going to post Monet’s music, but I did check it out. The songs aren’t, a string of cliches, generic production, slick. But the voice…the voice is powerful. Just like Jerry Douglas on the dobro, there aren’t many people who can sing with that force, tone, and power. A heaping scoop of Beyonce, a smattering of Rhianna, a dash of Whitney - all varieties of iconic women. Those who can sing like that are both extremely talented AND invested tens of thousands of hours of hard work to get that good.

    What makes a great R&B song, or a country song for that matter? That’s right - it’s the voice. A voice doesn’t have to sound exactly like a particular singer to be stolen. If you steal the best qualities of a variety of voices, you just might build something that competes with the best singers. Once again, that’s theft.

    If attribution is the answer, then why aren’t we pursuing a solution built on transparency and integrity. If Jerry Douglas doesn’t want his work used to train AI, he should get to make that choice. The same goes for every distinctive player whose performances are heard on hit records. If AI can’t train on Jerry, or Justin or Rob or even Andy from the Stringdusters, then it won’t put those people out of work. There are plenty of very good dobro players who will happily contribute their performances to train AI in exchange for a reasonable fee. The best of the best should have the absolute right to gatekeeper their work to maintain their market advantage - not just over lesser players, but over lesser AI.

    As a musician and music rights advocate, this is all so obvious to me. We have to do it this way. To those in power, those making the deals: forget about market share. If you’re negotiating for your own huge company, you are also negotiating for the entire community of musicians, producers, arrangers, singers, and writers. The model we need is built on AI tools that will tell us exactly who made that dobro solo on the random guy’s demo so perfect, then an automated payment will be directed to the appropriate musician. If they figure out how to train their models without famous music, then congratulations to them. But if they steal from our best musicians using derivatives of their own music, we have failed generations of musicians.

    The ultimate dystopian nightmare is that the majority of working musicians, creative musicians, are recording music not for a human audience, but for AI training. People who care about music realize that the very best music-makers—singers, pickers, writers, producers—have dedicated their entire lives to developing the skills to operate at a professional level. Only the best of the best become well-known.

    I have some issues with the business culture of bluegrass (to be addressed in a future newsletter), but the musicianship at the highest level is absolutely magnificent. Virtuosos like Jerry or Sierra Hull, Billy Strings, Bela Fleck, Michael Cleveland are extraordinary. They’re comparable in their field to superstar athletes in their uniqueness.

    These musicians are so phemonmenal that only other virtuosos, other former child prodigies who dedicate their lives to the craft, can compete for the best gigs. It’s always been an exclusive club, until now. Now apparently anybody with a Suno subscription can have their transcendent level of musicianship for nothing. Please recognize how deeply WRONG this is, and how greedy and disrespectful these tech pirates are to our artistry. Jerry is one example among so many, across genres. Anything on the Internet is fair game for their plagiarism. Singers, players, writers, producers, on and on - all about to lose large parts of their livelihood to blatant theft by Big Tech.

    For music people like me, the only thing that matters more than music are the people we love - many of whom are musicians. This is an emergency. We need to get this right for the future of music and musicianship.

    1

    I may be old but I know a grift when I see one.


    If you have Instagram, look up Andy Hall there (link didn't work):


     * The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.


    Totally agree that it’s a crime to be ripping off the artists and not preventing their creative content from being used without compensation or permission. Birth certificates should come with a copyright that states everything about you from your voice to your physical appearance is yours and to use any aspect of it without written expressed consent is illegal and subject to civil and criminal penalties. I wonder how Denmark is doing it?

    AI and greed is going to kill everything.

    Agreed!  And some of those restrictions need to happen fast before AI gives us all a virtual finger!
    Robot Hand Showing Middle Finger Isolated On Free Stock Photo and Image  191570834

    except all those people losing their jobs to ai are getting the real finger. 
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,815
    edited November 16
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    mickeyrat said:
    Morgan Freeman is publicly denouncing the unauthorized use of AI to replicate his iconic voice, calling it a violation of his intellectual property.

    The Oscar-winning actor’s deep, commanding voice has defined his career across film, TV, and music—from Driving Miss Daisy and The Shawshank Redemption to his award-winning narration in March of the Penguins. 

    But as AI increasingly replicates famous voices, Freeman, 88, says the technology has cost him valuable work and exploits his signature sound.

    https://www.blackenterprise.com/morgan-freeman-slams-ai-youre-robbing-me/

    It's sad and disturbing to see that sort of thing going on with AI.  Just this morning, I came across this urgent Substack article form musician John Strohm (formerly with The Blake Babies and Lemonheads):

    Go ahead and watch the Reel above from Andy Hall of Denver’s Infamous Stringdusters. Watch first, then let’s discuss.

    In case you couldn’t be bothered to watch, very briefly: Andy is a dobro aka resophonic guitar player. That’s an old-fashioned resonator guitar played with a metal slide, aka bar. Andy one of a handful of well-known professional dobro players in the greater bluegrass ecosystem. I’ve met him; he’s a cool guy.

    Somebody asked him to play a dobro solo on a track and sent him a sound file that already had a dobro solo. When he listened, he figured the client must have hired Jerry Douglas, a longtime Rounder artist who is universally regarded as the greatest dobro player ever. THE GOAT. Also a great guy: humble, funny, and kind…a living legend.

    Andy asked his client if he still needed a solo and the client said oh, that’s just an AI placeholder from Suno to give you an idea of what I want for the solo. Hall acknowledges that it’s a perfectly executed, beautiful, musical solo (“real, and perfect, and amazing”), and he’ll have to bring his best to come close. In closing, he urges his viewers to support live music and buy merch because “it’s getting weird.”

    WE ARE SO SCREWED

    The general consensus lately has been that AI is not quite good enough to make music we’ll truly care about - but it’s getting there. The more stolen music it gobbles up in training data, the better it gets.

    We’ve had all these dumb viral stories such as Bustin’ Rust or whatever it’s called about these rigged Billboard number one “hits” calculated to create outrage. We’ve been hearing all these predictions that AI will replace artists within a year. We have this vast online subculture of AI music sycophants and opportunists seeking to paint anyone (like me) demanding transparency and payment as pathetic Luddites who’ve lost step with the times.¹ It is TRULY getting weird = weird and dangerous.

    I’ve written many times that all music should be subject to opt-in licensure for AI training - it’s the only reasonable way forward. We need the right to decide when to license AI platforms, and consumers need to know when they’re consuming or buying AI slop. We’re at a critical juncture; Andy’s post is a perfect example of WHY we need an opt-in structure, transparency, and labeling for all AI music products immediately - along with policies from Spotify and other streamers to identify, prioritize, and elevate music that is primarily human-made, featuring the performances of living, breathing, uniquely talented human beings.

    Jerry Douglass is well loved in bluegrass circles, where he’s regarded as a founder and a genius. He’s a member of the Bluegrass Hall of Fame, a ten-time IBMA winner, and a two-time Grammy winner. If he didn’t quite make the Mount Rushmore of living bluegrass musicians, but he’d be on a short list for consideration. With that career alone, he’d make a nice living. But Jerry’s ambition has carried him well beyond the bluegrass community and audience. For example, he played in Mumford and Sons for a time. And, importantly, he has played on hundreds or maybe thousands of commercial country records as a featured soloist.

    If you hear a dobro on a hit country record, there’s a good chance it’s Jerry. That’s why the old AI machine plays like Jerry: because it’s trained on Jerry’s solos. Or maybe it’s Justin Moses, or Rob Ickes. Point is, it’s one of a few people, because there are only a few people who can play like that! Up until right now, if you wanted a world-class Dobro solo on your record, you’d have to pay premium union rates if you could even book them for your session. You get what you pay for. Until now.

    I caught up with a friend recently who manages a state-of-the-art music attribution AI model. Their technology can identify the fine-tuning training set for any AI output. They can tell what’s in it! Their technology can also direct the AI not to use certain data for an output. In other words, AI training rights can be actively managed. It isn’t just anybody’s guess what’s in the training set. It’s knowable information!

    Even if Suno isn’t (yet) able to crank out super compelling outputs, it does a very good job of mimicking good session musicianship. That’s because it’s trained on performances by good session musicians. While we’ve got our heads in trying to figure out how to get the copyright owners paid, what about the musicians? They’re the ones who are about to lose their business. Think about that: an AI platform steals your performances to train a model to play exactly like you, therefore putting you out of work. It’s criminal, right?

    There’s another viral act I checked out, another dumb viral story thanks to generative AI-forward label Hallwood Media. According to CNN, Hallwood won a “multi-million dollar bidding war” for an AI R&B “singer” going by the name Xania Monet. think about that: a multi-million dollar bidding war for someone who prompts Suno. It would be funny if it weren’t completely tragic.

    I’m not going to post Monet’s music, but I did check it out. The songs aren’t, a string of cliches, generic production, slick. But the voice…the voice is powerful. Just like Jerry Douglas on the dobro, there aren’t many people who can sing with that force, tone, and power. A heaping scoop of Beyonce, a smattering of Rhianna, a dash of Whitney - all varieties of iconic women. Those who can sing like that are both extremely talented AND invested tens of thousands of hours of hard work to get that good.

    What makes a great R&B song, or a country song for that matter? That’s right - it’s the voice. A voice doesn’t have to sound exactly like a particular singer to be stolen. If you steal the best qualities of a variety of voices, you just might build something that competes with the best singers. Once again, that’s theft.

    If attribution is the answer, then why aren’t we pursuing a solution built on transparency and integrity. If Jerry Douglas doesn’t want his work used to train AI, he should get to make that choice. The same goes for every distinctive player whose performances are heard on hit records. If AI can’t train on Jerry, or Justin or Rob or even Andy from the Stringdusters, then it won’t put those people out of work. There are plenty of very good dobro players who will happily contribute their performances to train AI in exchange for a reasonable fee. The best of the best should have the absolute right to gatekeeper their work to maintain their market advantage - not just over lesser players, but over lesser AI.

    As a musician and music rights advocate, this is all so obvious to me. We have to do it this way. To those in power, those making the deals: forget about market share. If you’re negotiating for your own huge company, you are also negotiating for the entire community of musicians, producers, arrangers, singers, and writers. The model we need is built on AI tools that will tell us exactly who made that dobro solo on the random guy’s demo so perfect, then an automated payment will be directed to the appropriate musician. If they figure out how to train their models without famous music, then congratulations to them. But if they steal from our best musicians using derivatives of their own music, we have failed generations of musicians.

    The ultimate dystopian nightmare is that the majority of working musicians, creative musicians, are recording music not for a human audience, but for AI training. People who care about music realize that the very best music-makers—singers, pickers, writers, producers—have dedicated their entire lives to developing the skills to operate at a professional level. Only the best of the best become well-known.

    I have some issues with the business culture of bluegrass (to be addressed in a future newsletter), but the musicianship at the highest level is absolutely magnificent. Virtuosos like Jerry or Sierra Hull, Billy Strings, Bela Fleck, Michael Cleveland are extraordinary. They’re comparable in their field to superstar athletes in their uniqueness.

    These musicians are so phemonmenal that only other virtuosos, other former child prodigies who dedicate their lives to the craft, can compete for the best gigs. It’s always been an exclusive club, until now. Now apparently anybody with a Suno subscription can have their transcendent level of musicianship for nothing. Please recognize how deeply WRONG this is, and how greedy and disrespectful these tech pirates are to our artistry. Jerry is one example among so many, across genres. Anything on the Internet is fair game for their plagiarism. Singers, players, writers, producers, on and on - all about to lose large parts of their livelihood to blatant theft by Big Tech.

    For music people like me, the only thing that matters more than music are the people we love - many of whom are musicians. This is an emergency. We need to get this right for the future of music and musicianship.

    1

    I may be old but I know a grift when I see one.


    If you have Instagram, look up Andy Hall there (link didn't work):


     * The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.


    Totally agree that it’s a crime to be ripping off the artists and not preventing their creative content from being used without compensation or permission. Birth certificates should come with a copyright that states everything about you from your voice to your physical appearance is yours and to use any aspect of it without written expressed consent is illegal and subject to civil and criminal penalties. I wonder how Denmark is doing it?

    AI and greed is going to kill everything.

    Agreed!  And some of those restrictions need to happen fast before AI gives us all a virtual finger!
    Robot Hand Showing Middle Finger Isolated On Free Stock Photo and Image  191570834

    except all those people losing their jobs to ai are getting the real finger. 

    Absolutely, and that sucks in a major way.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Ledbetterman10
    Ledbetterman10 Posts: 17,018
    I caught Grok AI lying to me, in a very malicious and deceptive manner. I was watching The Shining and couldn’t remember if the corpse woman kisses Jack in the book like she does in the movie. Grok said she did. I hadn’t read the book in years, but I was skeptical of this answer. I asked Grok to give me the line and it proceeded to spit out 12 paragraphs, all of which were fake, and attributed to Stephen King. I went and grabbed the book to confirm. I took 40 screenshots of the “conversation” because it was so outrageous. Here’s a sample….



    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • GlowGirl
    GlowGirl New York, NY Posts: 12,322
    In one of my online college classes that teach my students had to participate in a discussion where they were asked to discuss the challenges to biomedical authority as outlined in chapter 6 of their textbook. I started seeing the same incorrect response from quite a few of the students. What they wrote was nowhere in the textbook (which I am very familiar with). So after seeing the same wrong answer several times I took the discussion question and directly copied it into AI. AI gave me that same wrong answer. When I questioned what chapter from the textbook the answer came from it gave me a chapter title that was not in the book. I then told AI that the chapter title and the information it gave me were not from the book I asked about and it basically told me I was right about that and apologized. So I gave all those students a 0 on their discussion and explained how AI admitted it was wrong and they can’t always trust AI without doing their own research. I further added that there was a three page section in the actual textbook that was subtitled Challenges to Biomedical Authority, and had they taken the time to read the actual textbook instead of trying to take a shortcut they would have easily been able to find the correct answers. I really hope some of them learned their lesson.