I think they are still amazing. What I think is funny is that I have seen some of my favorite songs like I Am Mine maybe 5-6 times. But I have now seen Wreckage 17 times 😁
I’m surprised at all the dislike of Wreckage. I think Wreckage is great and as good live as on record. Wreckage will be a staple moving forward.
I also think wreckage was awesome, crowd def enjoyed it more at the 2025 shows.
All you have to do is go back and look at some of those sets from previous years. Those saying the shorter sets are somehow even better now….im sorry but thats gotta be some recency bias because its not even close
I think some people argue they prefer quality over quantity. I also think they are exaggerating how bad the quality was when we had the quantity.
Yah, with those 2013 to 2018 3 hour+ barn burners, I felt we had quality and quantity at the same time.
I'm still struggling to come down from those shows, and it's hard not to compare.
My first show was Philly 1 in 2024. It makes me sad because I missed that era, but almost caught it. My cousins went to the Ten show without me in 16, and I missed the Rome show in 2018, we flew in that day and couldn't make it. I think about it every day.....
This year and last year (24 + 25) is the best the band has sounded in the post Covid era and that’s pretty good. Shows are still fun, albeit repetitive with 2/3 of the show being DM songs and DM songs.
Of I’m relistening to old shows 94-2006 is the sweet spot for me. The 90’s shows are tight with the band firing on all cylinders and the shows from 1998-2006 are the best modern version of the band with Matt where the setlists were unpredictable and the band still taking chances and extending songs a bit.
I do think there was another brief peak in 2013-2014 as the new format re-energized the band. Show length doesn’t matter to me as much as quality of playing does and in this era they bailed both.
From 2016 to present shows are fun to be with my biggest memories coming from hanging out with old friends rather than memories of the shows themselves. This is when shows stopped having a lot of replay value for me, but of course are still fun in the moment.
"What can you expect when you're on top? You know? It's like Napoleon. When he was the king, you know, people were just constantly trying to conquer him, you know, in the Roman Empire. So, it's history repeating itself all over again."
I have never felt that the quality in any way suffered. That argument sounds made up.
I do miss having a My Morning Jacket open those shows though.
Completely agree on all counts. The longer shows were just more of a great thing. I can totally understand why they wouldn't want to commit to 3 hours per night as the baseline going forward, though.
I was hoping they'd look at the recent tour's 2 night stands in the same town as an opportunity to rethink the every night songs. For me, Alive is really the only every night song. I listen to almost every show on Nugs and find myself skipping Even Flow, Porch, Do the Evolution and Spin the Black Circle more and more. Looking at a 2 night stand as a "no repeat" opportunity would have been really interesting.
Said it in the past. More rockin less talking please. I know the 3 hour shows and 30+ song setlist are the past. Will still always go to shows, but wont be doing multiple shows a tour anymore. Guess the unexpacted aspect is a bit gone
I was hoping they'd look at the recent tour's 2 night stands in the same town as an opportunity to rethink the every night songs. For me, Alive is really the only every night song. I listen to almost every show on Nugs and find myself skipping Even Flow, Porch, Do the Evolution and Spin the Black Circle more and more. Looking at a 2 night stand as a "no repeat" opportunity would have been really interesting.
Yeah im with you about the skipping part. Straight to the 'deep cuts'
Said it in the past. More rockin less talking please. I know the 3 hour shows and 30+ song setlist are the past. Will still always go to shows, but wont be doing multiple shows a tour anymore. Guess the unexpacted aspect is a bit gone
Unfortunately you are right. I do not mind the shorter shows, it's the lack of setlist mix. Please retire the Ten songs and give us more Yield, Binaural, Riot Act, and heck even Backspacer. I do not need to hear Alive, Porch or Even Flow live ever again. Signed a spoiled old PJ tour veteran.
Yeah im not realy the veteran ( ), but i know what you saying. I jumped on the PJ train in 2006. Damn those shows.
Those 10 minutes Even flows can be replaced by a (lets say) Gods Dice - Lukin - Breakerfall run or so. Or those 25 minute-run Alive - Free World - Yellow Ledbetter by 6 other songs🤣
I was hoping they'd look at the recent tour's 2 night stands in the same town as an opportunity to rethink the every night songs. For me, Alive is really the only every night song. I listen to almost every show on Nugs and find myself skipping Even Flow, Porch, Do the Evolution and Spin the Black Circle more and more. Looking at a 2 night stand as a "no repeat" opportunity would have been really interesting.
I hadn't thought about it but this is a good point on the bootlegs. I went from listening to them with My Morning Jacket frequency (most shows on a tour because each show stands on its own) to Father John Misty frequency (listen occasionally and pick a show with the variable songs I want).
Said it in the past. More rockin less talking please. I know the 3 hour shows and 30+ song setlist are the past. Will still always go to shows, but wont be doing multiple shows a tour anymore. Guess the unexpacted aspect is a bit gone
Unfortunately you are right. I do not mind the shorter shows, it's the lack of setlist mix. Please retire the Ten songs and give us more Yield, Binaural, Riot Act, and heck even Backspacer. I do not need to hear Alive, Porch or Even Flow live ever again. Signed a spoiled old PJ tour veteran.
If I had my way I would reduce the Ten songs and get rid of the covers. I'm good with the shorter sets.
I think they stick with the standards because they don't require practice. These guys seem to get together and just bang out shows. They might practice some oddities during soundcheck but they aren't practicing 8 hours a day in prep for a tour to be comfortable enough with removing the standards.
Grievance at Pitt was a good example...not perfect but who cares? It was fucking great to hear and that they did it almost all the way through without fuck ups was amazing.
But yeah, as someone said above, we're on the back nine watching them get closer to wrapping up and I'll take whatever I can get. In my opinion they are the best live band out there. I love the live moments when Mike is going into outer space and Matt/Jeff/Stone are just slamming out a groove all huddled together.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
The majority of people aren't going to see PJ to hear songs off Riot Act or Avocado, and the band knows this.
There's a word for that phase of your career and I don't want to speak it
Josh Hommes subscribes to ta similar philosophy about playing one's hits and he's a good 10 years younger than these guys, so it isn't just limited to those who are slowing down.
If the new model is a standard setlist framework being mostly filled in by new album, covers, and 20th century material I will say it's been a great run but I'll be at the Sinclair that night
If the new model is a standard setlist framework being mostly filled in by new album, covers, and 20th century material I will say it's been a great run but I'll be at the Sinclair that night
I hear you, and more power to you.
Personally, I've seen several shows on the DM tour and not a single one of them has dissuaded me from trying to see as many shows as I can. If I hadn't missed those '03-06 shows, I might feel differently, but such is life.
The majority of people aren't going to see PJ to hear songs off Riot Act or Avocado, and the band knows this.
There's a word for that phase of your career and I don't want to speak it
Josh Hommes subscribes to ta similar philosophy about playing one's hits and he's a good 10 years younger than these guys, so it isn't just limited to those who are slowing down.
Philosophy seems different than how it plays out though. This is the last Queens show I saw. It's a nice mix.
Queens are a tricky example too because they're one of the few bands I'd put above Pearl Jam from a performance standpoint today. Also I'm seeing them for $70 at MGM which I think subconsciously factors into the discussion.
It's gotten better every year of this new, post-Evening With era I think. 2022 was a huge adjustment because the shows were nowhere near what had come before. In 2023 the band seemed to find its stride, and 24/25 were fire again.
The majority of people aren't going to see PJ to hear songs off Riot Act or Avocado, and the band knows this.
There's a word for that phase of your career and I don't want to speak it
Josh Hommes subscribes to ta similar philosophy about playing one's hits and he's a good 10 years younger than these guys, so it isn't just limited to those who are slowing down.
Philosophy seems different than how it plays out though. This is the last Queens show I saw. It's a nice mix.
It's gotten better every year of this new, post-Evening With era I think. 2022 was a huge adjustment because the shows were nowhere near what had come before. In 2023 the band seemed to find its stride, and 24/25 were fire again.
This... StP in 2023 were the 1st shows i saw since Fenway '18, and as great as it was to see them, they weren't the greatest shows IMO.
The last year however, they've played the best shows I've seen since 2016.
If the new model is a standard setlist framework being mostly filled in by new album, covers, and 20th century material I will say it's been a great run but I'll be at the Sinclair that night
I hear you, and more power to you.
Personally, I've seen several shows on the DM tour and not a single one of them has dissuaded me from trying to see as many shows as I can. If I hadn't missed those '03-06 shows, I might feel differently, but such is life.
Yeah that's probably a big factor. I saw 23 shows from 2003-2008 so that's burned in my brain.
Queens are a tricky example too because they're one of the few bands I'd put above Pearl Jam from a performance standpoint today. Also I'm seeing them for $70 at MGM which I think subconsciously factors into the discussion.
I missed this post, and I agree completely... IMO QOTSA is the best band of the last 25 years, and their shows are 🔥 (the ones where JH is in good form at least... I have seen a couple stinkers over the years)
Dublin is the perfect example of 'hard core' fans moaning about a setlist when in reality 95% of people there absolutely loved the show. I've seen them plenty and I was just grateful to see them in my home town for the first time in 15 years regardless of the fairly 'standard' setlist. We've been spoilt and the reality is, most people going want to see the hits which is fair enough. They still pull out surprises, they just don't do it as much anymore.
(Also - speaking of dublin - murder capital are trash humans)
Dublin is the perfect example of 'hard core' fans moaning about a setlist when in reality 95% of people there absolutely loved the show. I've seen them plenty and I was just grateful to see them in my home town for the first time in 15 years regardless of the fairly 'standard' setlist. We've been spoilt and the reality is, most people going want to see the hits which is fair enough. They still pull out surprises, they just don't do it as much anymore.
(Also - speaking of dublin - murder capital are trash humans)
Yeah, Dublin was electric... people will sleep on that show due to the setlist, but the energy was off the charts. That was a special night.
I told my wife I was done traveling for them after StP in 2023, but we planned our Ireland / UK vacation around the tour regardless, as seeing them in Dublin was a bucket list item for me... the Dublin and Manchester shows sucked me back in. I've traveled for 5 shows since then. The DM material really energized them and added a spark to the live shows.
I agree with the comments that the new record energized the band. For people chasing songs and rarities this probably wasn’t a great tour, but if you wanted to see the band playing tight and sounding good, you would enjoy these shows. The Dark Matter tour felt like a production, or a show that they were giving us rather than just a concert.
I also agree the shows in 2022 were pretty rough. 23 songs or less most nights and constant worry about cancellations. 2023 the band seemed a bit looser and by Austin had really seemed to figure it out. 2024 felt like an athlete late in their career who after a couple of down years, managed to find the old magic again and reinvent their game.
For what the ticket prices are these days I’m glad we’re getting 24-25 songs most nights. The 2022 shows were just too short for what they’re charging. I’d add as well, less talking from Ed isn’t going to get you more songs. These are built in breaks for he and the band. Same reason they stretch out Even Flow and Porch.
Finally, I’d say the band sounds really good and is playing really well. I found a lot of shows during Backspacer and Lightning Bolt to be super sloppy and just racing through songs. I’d rather tight, concise performances of what the band is excited to play rather than rarities just for the sake of crossing something off a list.
2003 - June 15 Fargo 2005 - Sept 1 George, Sept 8 Winnipeg 2006 - May 9/10 Toronto, June 26/27 St. Paul, July 22/23 George, Oct 21/22 Mountain View 2007 - Aug 2/5 Chicago 2008 - June 22 Washington, June 24/25 New York 2009 - Aug 21 Toronto, Aug 23/24 Chicago, Sept 21/22 Seattle, Oct 27/28/30/31 Philadelphia 2010 - May 15 Hartford, May 17 Boston, Oct 23/24 Mountain View 2011 - Sept 3/4 Alpine Valley, Sept 11/12 Toronto, Sept 17 Winnipeg, Sept 19 Saskatoon 2012 - Sept 30 Missoula 2013 - July 16 London, July 19 Chicago, Oct 12 Buffalo, Dec 2 Calgary, Dec 4 Vancouver, Dec 6 Seattle 2014 - Oct 16 Detroit, Oct 19 St. Paul, Oct 20 Milwaukee 2015 - Sept 23 (Colbert)/Sept 26, New York 2016 - Apr 28/29 Philadelphia, May 10/12 Toronto, Aug 20/22 Chicago
I splurged on parking far closer to the venues during the Dark Matter legs as compared to previous tours. That sums it up for me.
YOLO
To quote the 10C from Newsletter #8: "Please understand we have a lot of members and it is very hard to please everybody. If you are one of those unhappy people...please call 1-900-IDN-TCAR."
"Me knowing the truth, I can not concur."
1996: Toronto - 1998: Chicago, Montreal, Barrie - 2000: Montreal, Toronto - 2002: Seattle X2 (Key Arena) - 2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal, Seattle (Benaroya Hall) - 2004: Reading, Toledo, Grand Rapids - 2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Quebec City - 2006: Toronto X2, Albany, Hartford, Grand Rapids, Cleveland - 2007: Chicago (Vic Theatre) - 2008: NYC X2, Hartford, Mansfield X2 - 2009: Toronto, Chicago X2, Seattle X2, Philadelphia X4 - 2010: Columbus, Noblesville, Cleveland, Buffalo, Hartford - 2011: Montreal, Toronto X2, Ottawa, Hamilton - 2012: Missoula - 2013: London, Chicago, Buffalo, Hartford - 2014: Detroit, Moline - 2015: NYC (Global Citizen Festival) - 2016: Greenville, Toronto X2, Chicago 1 - 2017: Brooklyn (RRHOF Induction) - 2018: Chicago 1, Boston 1 - 2022: Fresno, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto, NYC, Camden - 2023: St. Paul X2, Austin X2 - 2024: Vancouver X2, Portland, Sacramento, Missoula, Noblesville, Philadelphia X2, Baltimore - 2025: Hollywood X2, Atlanta 2, Nashville X2, Pittsburgh X2
It's funny how reading through these and how vast the answers are.
1. It obviously comes down to ones personal preference.
2. The word variety also comes into play here. I attended 5 Dark Matter shows over the last 2 years and heard quite a bit of the same songs at each show. Dark Matter tunes plus the regular constants (DTE, Even Flow, Alive, etc.). But I also saw at least 2 or 3 new songs at each show. So the more shows you saw, the more variety you got overall.
3. I heard a lot of people say they were better when they were playing 35 songs a night. But, I will take 26 high quality songs anytime over 35 songs that they play just to play. (Not that they were bad, but just saying).
4. Finally, if your one of the lucky ones who have seen them upwards of 50 or more times, I'm betting the Dark Matter shows were just ok because you've probably already seen most songs live and it would take more to impress you. But maybe I'm wrong.
These are just the thoughts of a guy who has only seen them 15 times and I thought they were great over the last 2 years. Those 2 Pitt shows were amazing and 2 of the best I've seen. (Maybe only St. Louis in '22 was better?)
1998: Noblesville, IN 08-17
2000: Noblesville, IN 08-18
2003: Noblesville, IN 06-22
2006: Cincinnati, OH 06-24
2010: Noblesville, IN 05-07
2016: Lexington, KY 04-26, Wrigley Field 2 08-22
2018: Wrigley Field 1 08-18, Wrigley Field 2 08-20
2022: St. Louis, MO 09-18
2024: Noblesville, IN 08-26, Wrigley Field 1 08-29, Wrigley Field 2 08-31 2025: Pitt 1 05-16, Pitt 2 05-18
Comments
Of I’m relistening to old shows 94-2006 is the sweet spot for me. The 90’s shows are tight with the band firing on all cylinders and the shows from 1998-2006 are the best modern version of the band with Matt where the setlists were unpredictable and the band still taking chances and extending songs a bit.
From 2016 to present shows are fun to be with my biggest memories coming from hanging out with old friends rather than memories of the shows themselves. This is when shows stopped having a lot of replay value for me, but of course are still fun in the moment.
I know the 3 hour shows and 30+ song setlist are the past.
Will still always go to shows, but wont be doing multiple shows a tour anymore. Guess the unexpacted aspect is a bit gone
Unfortunately you are right. I do not mind the shorter shows, it's the lack of setlist mix. Please retire the Ten songs and give us more Yield, Binaural, Riot Act, and heck even Backspacer. I do not need to hear Alive, Porch or Even Flow live ever again. Signed a spoiled old PJ tour veteran.
I jumped on the PJ train in 2006. Damn those shows.
Those 10 minutes Even flows can be replaced by a (lets say) Gods Dice - Lukin - Breakerfall run or so.
Or those 25 minute-run Alive - Free World - Yellow Ledbetter by 6 other songs🤣
I think they stick with the standards because they don't require practice. These guys seem to get together and just bang out shows. They might practice some oddities during soundcheck but they aren't practicing 8 hours a day in prep for a tour to be comfortable enough with removing the standards.
Grievance at Pitt was a good example...not perfect but who cares? It was fucking great to hear and that they did it almost all the way through without fuck ups was amazing.
But yeah, as someone said above, we're on the back nine watching them get closer to wrapping up and I'll take whatever I can get. In my opinion they are the best live band out there. I love the live moments when Mike is going into outer space and Matt/Jeff/Stone are just slamming out a groove all huddled together.
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
Personally, I've seen several shows on the DM tour and not a single one of them has dissuaded me from trying to see as many shows as I can. If I hadn't missed those '03-06 shows, I might feel differently, but such is life.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
https://www.nme.com/news/music/josh-homme-says-bands-who-dont-play-their-hits-are-a-little-cty-3477465
The last year however, they've played the best shows I've seen since 2016.
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
I told my wife I was done traveling for them after StP in 2023, but we planned our Ireland / UK vacation around the tour regardless, as seeing them in Dublin was a bucket list item for me... the Dublin and Manchester shows sucked me back in. I've traveled for 5 shows since then. The DM material really energized them and added a spark to the live shows.
2005 - Sept 1 George, Sept 8 Winnipeg
2006 - May 9/10 Toronto, June 26/27 St. Paul, July 22/23 George, Oct 21/22 Mountain View
2007 - Aug 2/5 Chicago
2008 - June 22 Washington, June 24/25 New York
2009 - Aug 21 Toronto, Aug 23/24 Chicago, Sept 21/22 Seattle, Oct 27/28/30/31 Philadelphia
2010 - May 15 Hartford, May 17 Boston, Oct 23/24 Mountain View
2011 - Sept 3/4 Alpine Valley, Sept 11/12 Toronto, Sept 17 Winnipeg, Sept 19 Saskatoon
2012 - Sept 30 Missoula
2013 - July 16 London, July 19 Chicago, Oct 12 Buffalo, Dec 2 Calgary, Dec 4 Vancouver, Dec 6 Seattle
2014 - Oct 16 Detroit, Oct 19 St. Paul, Oct 20 Milwaukee
2015 - Sept 23 (Colbert)/Sept 26, New York
2016 - Apr 28/29 Philadelphia, May 10/12 Toronto, Aug 20/22 Chicago
YOLO
"Me knowing the truth, I can not concur."
1996: Toronto - 1998: Chicago, Montreal, Barrie - 2000: Montreal, Toronto - 2002: Seattle X2 (Key Arena) - 2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal, Seattle (Benaroya Hall) - 2004: Reading, Toledo, Grand Rapids - 2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Quebec City - 2006: Toronto X2, Albany, Hartford, Grand Rapids, Cleveland - 2007: Chicago (Vic Theatre) - 2008: NYC X2, Hartford, Mansfield X2 - 2009: Toronto, Chicago X2, Seattle X2, Philadelphia X4 - 2010: Columbus, Noblesville, Cleveland, Buffalo, Hartford - 2011: Montreal, Toronto X2, Ottawa, Hamilton - 2012: Missoula - 2013: London, Chicago, Buffalo, Hartford - 2014: Detroit, Moline - 2015: NYC (Global Citizen Festival) - 2016: Greenville, Toronto X2, Chicago 1 - 2017: Brooklyn (RRHOF Induction) - 2018: Chicago 1, Boston 1 - 2022: Fresno, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto, NYC, Camden - 2023: St. Paul X2, Austin X2 - 2024: Vancouver X2, Portland, Sacramento, Missoula, Noblesville, Philadelphia X2, Baltimore - 2025: Hollywood X2, Atlanta 2, Nashville X2, Pittsburgh X2
1. It obviously comes down to ones personal preference.
2. The word variety also comes into play here. I attended 5 Dark Matter shows over the last 2 years and heard quite a bit of the same songs at each show. Dark Matter tunes plus the regular constants (DTE, Even Flow, Alive, etc.). But I also saw at least 2 or 3 new songs at each show. So the more shows you saw, the more variety you got overall.
3. I heard a lot of people say they were better when they were playing 35 songs a night. But, I will take 26 high quality songs anytime over 35 songs that they play just to play. (Not that they were bad, but just saying).
4. Finally, if your one of the lucky ones who have seen them upwards of 50 or more times, I'm betting the Dark Matter shows were just ok because you've probably already seen most songs live and it would take more to impress you. But maybe I'm wrong.
These are just the thoughts of a guy who has only seen them 15 times and I thought they were great over the last 2 years. Those 2 Pitt shows were amazing and 2 of the best I've seen. (Maybe only St. Louis in '22 was better?)
2025: Pitt 1 05-16, Pitt 2 05-18