TicketMaster's Fan2Fan is now Fan2Bot

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  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,531
    I also don't like calling them lazy when none of us know what obstacles, considerations, and/or negotiations are involved in setting up a ticket presale in 2024. Some of the things from the past that I'm pining for just may not be feasible anymore for a wide variety of reasons.
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,598
    edited April 2024
    The 10c/PJ/TM partnership botched priority and seat assignments in 2023. In 2024, they eliminated priority AND blamed it on 10c member confusion. That was a lazy way out. 

    The term gets tossed around too often here and I don't like it, either. Unfortunately, I do think it applies in this case. 
    Post edited by JimmyV on
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • danofun
    danofun Posts: 1,301
    edited April 2024
    The rush to judgement, screams of  "bots!", and calls to blow up the F2F system are, in my opinion, rash and misguided. It's a system that is not without fault (i.e. not being able to sell at a lower that face price) but has proven to be very beneficial to real fans. On this tour, the band waited longer than usual to turn on F2F, did so for both legs of the tour simultaneously, and there has been a massive rush. It's F2F day 6 for Boom's sake! The road to these shows is a long one and I for one am glad we have the chance to either get in the building or upgrade.

    I'd caution to reserve judgement until the tour has come and gone. F2F history has shown that practicing patience and persistence will be rewarded.
    Post edited by danofun on
  • BigRedd
    BigRedd Posts: 113
    danofun said:
    The rush to judgement, screams of  "bots!", and calls to blow up the F2F system are, in my opinion, rash and misguided. The band waited longer than usual to turn on F2F, did so for both legs of the tour simultaneously, and there has been a massive rush. It's F2F day 6 for Boom's sake! The road to these shows is a long one and I for one am glad we have the chance to either get in the building or upgrade.

    I'd caution to reserve judgement until the tour has come and gone. F2F history has shown that practicing patience and persistence will be rewarded.
    You are ignoring the fact that the majority of these tickets are ending up on the secondary markets. 

    Patience and persistence might get some through sure but that does not change the fact it is a broken system and in no way gives fans and not scalpers a shot at the resale market. Thats a damn lie. 
  • 100 Pacer
    100 Pacer Toronto, ON Posts: 9,324
    With respect it’s give and take and this was a perfect storm. No one complained when we were able to forward claim email to each other as we worked trades and tickets then were also non-transferable. This actually caused less demand on F2F with some being sorted behind the scenes. Coupled with the fact word spread behind the scenes prior to the PJ lottery happening that tickets would be account locked and forwarding email claims would no longer be possible. This resulted in fewer burner attempts at the lottery and fewer extras to go around. 

    I would still feel confident in the process. The ticket has no real value until entry time. If you can mitigate your FOMO sit back and wait until a week before the specific show to begin working F2F rather than caving to platinum pricing. Once platinum pricing drops F2F sales stall and plenty of inventory becomes available. No one will be left out on the street outside the venue if the ultimate desire is to gain entry to the show.
    To quote the 10C from Newsletter #8: "Please understand we have a lot of members and it is very hard to please everybody. If you are one of those unhappy people...please call 1-900-IDN-TCAR."

    "Me knowing the truth, I can not concur."

    1996: Toronto - 1998: Chicago, Montreal, Barrie - 2000: Montreal, Toronto - 2002: Seattle X2 (Key Arena) - 2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal, Seattle (Benaroya Hall) - 2004: Reading, Toledo, Grand Rapids - 2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Quebec City - 2006: Toronto X2, Albany, Hartford, Grand Rapids, Cleveland - 2007: Chicago (Vic Theatre) - 2008: NYC X2, Hartford, Mansfield X2 - 2009: Toronto, Chicago X2, Seattle X2, Philadelphia X4 - 2010: Columbus, Noblesville, Cleveland, Buffalo, Hartford - 2011: Montreal, Toronto X2, Ottawa, Hamilton - 2012: Missoula - 2013: London, Chicago, Buffalo, Hartford - 2014: Detroit, Moline - 2015: NYC (Global Citizen Festival) - 2016: Greenville, Toronto X2, Chicago 1 - 2017: Brooklyn (RRHOF Induction) - 2018: Chicago 1, Boston 1 - 2022: Fresno, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto, NYC, Camden - 2023: St. Paul X2, Austin X2 - 2024: Vancouver X2, Portland, Sacramento, Missoula, Noblesville, Philadelphia X2, Baltimore - 2025: Hollywood X2, Atlanta 2, Nashville X2, Pittsburgh X2
  • danofun
    danofun Posts: 1,301
    BigRedd said:
    danofun said:
    The rush to judgement, screams of  "bots!", and calls to blow up the F2F system are, in my opinion, rash and misguided. The band waited longer than usual to turn on F2F, did so for both legs of the tour simultaneously, and there has been a massive rush. It's F2F day 6 for Boom's sake! The road to these shows is a long one and I for one am glad we have the chance to either get in the building or upgrade.

    I'd caution to reserve judgement until the tour has come and gone. F2F history has shown that practicing patience and persistence will be rewarded.
    You are ignoring the fact that the majority of these tickets are ending up on the secondary markets. 

    Patience and persistence might get some through sure but that does not change the fact it is a broken system and in no way gives fans and not scalpers a shot at the resale market. Thats a damn lie. 
    You're angry. I get it. No perfect system exists but expecting a new system to be created by TM, without additional gain, is not realistic. Every face value F2F ticket that shows up was already in the hands of a 10C member! I'll refer to my previous comment as to what is the real problem.
    danofun said:
    F2F is as fair as it's going to get for a resale ticket. Period. A better solution is going after the root of this issue, the initial sale. Bring back prioritizing show selections. Once selected, you're at the back of the line for other shows. This would allow for a much larger "winners" pool and significantly reduce the number of individuals holding tickets to multiple shows. Ultimately, that means less people dropping tickets and a less desirable target for brokers.
  • 100 Pacer
    100 Pacer Toronto, ON Posts: 9,324
    @danofun with regards to bringing back priority selections I think that ship sailed once TicketsToday became involved in the distribution. 10C doesn’t have the resources and that’s fair but from my personal experience I never should have been able to hit the Chicago shows at the United Center last year with priorities #6 and #7 when others ranked them far higher and still lost.
    To quote the 10C from Newsletter #8: "Please understand we have a lot of members and it is very hard to please everybody. If you are one of those unhappy people...please call 1-900-IDN-TCAR."

    "Me knowing the truth, I can not concur."

    1996: Toronto - 1998: Chicago, Montreal, Barrie - 2000: Montreal, Toronto - 2002: Seattle X2 (Key Arena) - 2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal, Seattle (Benaroya Hall) - 2004: Reading, Toledo, Grand Rapids - 2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Quebec City - 2006: Toronto X2, Albany, Hartford, Grand Rapids, Cleveland - 2007: Chicago (Vic Theatre) - 2008: NYC X2, Hartford, Mansfield X2 - 2009: Toronto, Chicago X2, Seattle X2, Philadelphia X4 - 2010: Columbus, Noblesville, Cleveland, Buffalo, Hartford - 2011: Montreal, Toronto X2, Ottawa, Hamilton - 2012: Missoula - 2013: London, Chicago, Buffalo, Hartford - 2014: Detroit, Moline - 2015: NYC (Global Citizen Festival) - 2016: Greenville, Toronto X2, Chicago 1 - 2017: Brooklyn (RRHOF Induction) - 2018: Chicago 1, Boston 1 - 2022: Fresno, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto, NYC, Camden - 2023: St. Paul X2, Austin X2 - 2024: Vancouver X2, Portland, Sacramento, Missoula, Noblesville, Philadelphia X2, Baltimore - 2025: Hollywood X2, Atlanta 2, Nashville X2, Pittsburgh X2
  • BigRedd
    BigRedd Posts: 113
    Priority worked in 2023 for those that were included in the draw. They messed up with the GA/Reserved only picks not including them in the reserved draw when they missed out on GA. They then tried to fix it the next day but still messed it up not including a bunch. 

    Now with no priority we have no argument that they messed up at all. We have nothing to measure against and they know that which is part of the reason I am guessing the stopped doing it. 

  • danofun
    danofun Posts: 1,301
    100 Pacer said:
    @danofun with regards to bringing back priority selections I think that ship sailed once TicketsToday became involved in the distribution. 10C doesn’t have the resources and that’s fair but from my personal experience I never should have been able to hit the Chicago shows at the United Center last year with priorities #6 and #7 when others ranked them far higher and still lost.
    Exactly. The primary goal of any touring artist is to sell tickets to their shows. PJ has done an excellent job of getting primary sale tickets into 10C members accounts. I think the rub is the process with which that is transpiring. We can certainly voice our frustrations but providing "solutions" without knowing the limitations is a fruitless exercise. To @100 Pacer point, we are not privy to what is and is not possible within the TicketsToday partnership but there are likely limitations.

    F2F is secondary, simply a bonus and many of us have benefitted from its existence.
  • BigRedd
    BigRedd Posts: 113
    danofun said:
    100 Pacer said:
    @danofun with regards to bringing back priority selections I think that ship sailed once TicketsToday became involved in the distribution. 10C doesn’t have the resources and that’s fair but from my personal experience I never should have been able to hit the Chicago shows at the United Center last year with priorities #6 and #7 when others ranked them far higher and still lost.
    Exactly. The primary goal of any touring artist is to sell tickets to their shows. PJ has done an excellent job of getting primary sale tickets into 10C members accounts. I think the rub is the process with which that is transpiring. We can certainly voice our frustrations but providing "solutions" without knowing the limitations is a fruitless exercise. To @100 Pacer point, we are not privy to what is and is not possible within the TicketsToday partnership but there are likely limitations.

    F2F is secondary, simply a bonus and many of us have benefitted from its existence.
    After looking at all of the tickets for sale on the secondary sites that is one thing I can agree with you on. 
  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    danofun said:
    BigRedd said:
    danofun said:
    The rush to judgement, screams of  "bots!", and calls to blow up the F2F system are, in my opinion, rash and misguided. The band waited longer than usual to turn on F2F, did so for both legs of the tour simultaneously, and there has been a massive rush. It's F2F day 6 for Boom's sake! The road to these shows is a long one and I for one am glad we have the chance to either get in the building or upgrade.

    I'd caution to reserve judgement until the tour has come and gone. F2F history has shown that practicing patience and persistence will be rewarded.
    You are ignoring the fact that the majority of these tickets are ending up on the secondary markets. 

    Patience and persistence might get some through sure but that does not change the fact it is a broken system and in no way gives fans and not scalpers a shot at the resale market. Thats a damn lie. 
    You're angry. I get it. No perfect system exists but expecting a new system to be created by TM, without additional gain, is not realistic. Every face value F2F ticket that shows up was already in the hands of a 10C member! I'll refer to my previous comment as to what is the real problem.
    danofun said:
    F2F is as fair as it's going to get for a resale ticket. Period. A better solution is going after the root of this issue, the initial sale. Bring back prioritizing show selections. Once selected, you're at the back of the line for other shows. This would allow for a much larger "winners" pool and significantly reduce the number of individuals holding tickets to multiple shows. Ultimately, that means less people dropping tickets and a less desirable target for brokers.

    'no perfect system exists'

    What if they only sold tickets at face value at the door?

    No pre-orders.  No re-sales.  No tickets.  No nothing.

    Wait in line, pay money, see the show.

    That, in my mind, is the perfect system.
  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,256
    Without the fan club many of us would be screwed trying to get tickets to shows.  I'll take what we can get, and what the do for us is pretty darn good.
  • marumaruko
    marumaruko Posts: 410
    I think all of this is going too far. After some time I came to the conclusion that us fans are to blame to a large extent, as well. 
    Why is Frank from New York applying for tickets for Wrigley, Fenway,  MSG, and London, gets picked, then realising he can't even go, or doesn't want to go and subsequently has to sell tickets? 
    He should be able to apply for one show primarily and then will be deprioritised for all others. He can still try to go to all other shows, but not on the backs of local fans missing out due to this.
    There should be some self restraint among every one of us. 
    ------------------------------

    2005 - Calgary, Winnipeg, Thunder Bay, Kitchener, Hamilton, Montréal, Ottawa
    2006 - Verona, Torino, Pistoia
    2007 - Munich
    2013 - Calgary
    2014 - Vienna
    2016 - Quebec, Ottawa, Toronto N1, Toronto N2, Pemberton
    2018 - Padova
    2022 - Frankfurt, Krakow, Quebec, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto  

  • gotthebottle
    gotthebottle San Diego Posts: 3,770
    edited April 2024
    CM189191 said:
    danofun said:
    BigRedd said:
    danofun said:
    The rush to judgement, screams of  "bots!", and calls to blow up the F2F system are, in my opinion, rash and misguided. The band waited longer than usual to turn on F2F, did so for both legs of the tour simultaneously, and there has been a massive rush. It's F2F day 6 for Boom's sake! The road to these shows is a long one and I for one am glad we have the chance to either get in the building or upgrade.

    I'd caution to reserve judgement until the tour has come and gone. F2F history has shown that practicing patience and persistence will be rewarded.
    You are ignoring the fact that the majority of these tickets are ending up on the secondary markets. 

    Patience and persistence might get some through sure but that does not change the fact it is a broken system and in no way gives fans and not scalpers a shot at the resale market. Thats a damn lie. 
    You're angry. I get it. No perfect system exists but expecting a new system to be created by TM, without additional gain, is not realistic. Every face value F2F ticket that shows up was already in the hands of a 10C member! I'll refer to my previous comment as to what is the real problem.
    danofun said:
    F2F is as fair as it's going to get for a resale ticket. Period. A better solution is going after the root of this issue, the initial sale. Bring back prioritizing show selections. Once selected, you're at the back of the line for other shows. This would allow for a much larger "winners" pool and significantly reduce the number of individuals holding tickets to multiple shows. Ultimately, that means less people dropping tickets and a less desirable target for brokers.

    'no perfect system exists'

    What if they only sold tickets at face value at the door?

    No pre-orders.  No re-sales.  No tickets.  No nothing.

    Wait in line, pay money, see the show.

    That, in my mind, is the perfect system.



    17000 in line at arena? 
    Post edited by gotthebottle on
  • on2legs
    on2legs Posts: 15,959
    I’ve made it to 53 shows because of the ten club.  The system may not be perfect but I’m pretty happy with it. 
    1996: Randall's Island 2  1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2  2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel  2005: Atlantic City 1  2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 (#25) | Newark (EV)  2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4  2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2  2011: Toronto 1  2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore  2015: Central Park  2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD)  2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF)  2020: MSG | Asbury Park  2021: Asbury Park  2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville  2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore  2025: Raleigh


  • Get_Right
    Get_Right Posts: 14,127
    Tm is driving all of of this. Tm is the bot. Ticket comes up who is the first to know? Then they appear on a resale site.They take ever ticket and maximize the value. Maximize very seat up until the date of the show. Make no mistake, it is TM grabbing every seat and then squeezing the consumer. You might do ok in a smaller market, but not on the east coast.
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,913
    Personally I think tickets won  in the 10C lottery if being put back into pool for F2F they should go back into a 10C lottery.  Lose the original lottery get wait listed and if a member is putting those tickets back they should be randomly drawn again for members,  and maybe the best way to do that is draw the new lottery only a week or two out from show so most likely winners will be local. 
  • kait0113
    kait0113 Utica Posts: 19
    I'm really confused because I haven't even seen Boston re-sale go up in Ticketmaster and I check daily..
  • yosi
    yosi NYC Posts: 3,155
    pjhawks said:
    Personally I think tickets won  in the 10C lottery if being put back into pool for F2F they should go back into a 10C lottery.  Lose the original lottery get wait listed and if a member is putting those tickets back they should be randomly drawn again for members,  and maybe the best way to do that is draw the new lottery only a week or two out from show so most likely winners will be local. 
    This is a cool idea. 
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • EH14457
    EH14457 Orlando, FL Posts: 412
    yosi said:
    pjhawks said:
    Personally I think tickets won  in the 10C lottery if being put back into pool for F2F they should go back into a 10C lottery.  Lose the original lottery get wait listed and if a member is putting those tickets back they should be randomly drawn again for members,  and maybe the best way to do that is draw the new lottery only a week or two out from show so most likely winners will be local. 
    This is a cool idea. 
    Agreed. 

    Another option would be to limit F2F purchases to 10c members only. Our accounts are already linked for lottery purposes… and TM already has a mechanism in place to restrict sales to approved accounts (verified fan).

    It would also help with some of the whining about value of a 10c membership if it was the only way to get access to face value resale tickets. 

    10/7/96 (FL), 9/22/98 (FL), 9/23/98 (FL), 8/9/00 (FL), 8/10/00 (FL), 8/12/00 (FL), 4/11/03 (FL), 4/12/03 (FL), 4/13/03 (FL), 7/8/03 (NY), 7/9/03 (NY), 7/12/03 (PA), 7/14/03 (NJ), 10/8/04 (FL), 8/5/07 (IL), 11/27/12 (FL), 12/6/13 (WA), 4/8/16 (FL), 4/9/16 (FL), 4/11/16 (FL), 8/5/16 (MA), 8/22/16 (IL), 8/8/18 (WA), 8/10/18 (WA), 9/25/21 (CA), 9/26/21 (CA), 5/3/22 (CA), 5/12/22 (CA), 5/13/22 (CA), 9/18/23 (TX), 9/19/23 (TX), 10/23/23 (WA), 10/24/23 (WA), 5/28/24 (WA), 5/30/24 (WA), 4/24/25 (FL), 4/26/25 (FL), 4/29/25 (GA), 5/1/25 (GA)

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