TicketMaster's Fan2Fan is now Fan2Bot

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Comments

  • PJNB
    PJNB Posts: 13,890
    Are the people ok with this system set with tickets this tour? 
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,598
    boyaxl said:
    JimmyV said:
    Zod said:
    I thought I'd be contrarian and write the things that I do like about the current system:

    1) Some of those lineups in the early 2000's to pick up tickets got pretty crazy.  I remember the Seattle 2000 lineups being extraordinarily long.  I don't missed spending hours in the will call lineup just to get the tickets.

    2) There were a few times my tickets weren't as good as my brain had hoped.   If you know your seat locations months in advance you get over it.  If you picked up the tickets shortly before the show, that's a bit harder.

    3) There is technically a chance (albeit slim) to upgrade.

    I don't dislike the new system or anything.  There's some drawbacks, but there's some positives too.  
    I'm right there with you on this. It's a great idea and it has served many people well these last few years. 
    Pearl Jam just needs to wake up and smell the reality and allows transfers like most other artists.  That is the ONLY solution.  More restrictions = more hassle = falsely elevated prices.  Shame on them. It's a freaking concert ticket and should not be this complicated.  Literally every other big band does it better. 
    I hear this too. We all learned together in 2020 that face value meant what you paid, not some set base price. Not being able to sell for less than face, particularly premium tickets, seemed like a huge loophole that TM gleefully exploited. But now it's 2024 and that loophole still isn't closed. The system hasn't changed or improved. 
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • edocon
    edocon Posts: 336
    AB285441 said:
    Why can't F2F leverage an already existing authentication technology.  I don't know about you all, but I would be comfortable with providing an email address (i'd create a specific concert ticket email) and possibly a cell number to someone on here if they chose me to purchase the tickets through F2F.  Seller logs into TM, enters the purchaser's email/phone number in TM (rather then choosing to sell to the open secondary market).  That purchaser receives an authentication code from TM at that email/cell number, and can login and purchase the ticket using that authentication code.  

    Alternatively, maybe the seller logs into TM, decides to sell, but before any listing is completed, TM provides an authentication code to the seller.  That seller provides that authentication code to the purchaser of their choice.  Of course, if the seller would like to bypass this and sell on the F2F market without this option, they could do so as well.

    I think a hiccup would be how many platforms like 10C exist where fans could come to agreement to buy/sell, maybe not enough to warrant implementing this infrastructural change.

    In other words, give choice back to the seller.
    If the seller gets to choose the buyer that will lead to side-deals/bribes which break face value intent of F2F.
  • GlowGirl
    GlowGirl New York, NY Posts: 12,092
    edocon said:
    AB285441 said:
    Why can't F2F leverage an already existing authentication technology.  I don't know about you all, but I would be comfortable with providing an email address (i'd create a specific concert ticket email) and possibly a cell number to someone on here if they chose me to purchase the tickets through F2F.  Seller logs into TM, enters the purchaser's email/phone number in TM (rather then choosing to sell to the open secondary market).  That purchaser receives an authentication code from TM at that email/cell number, and can login and purchase the ticket using that authentication code.  

    Alternatively, maybe the seller logs into TM, decides to sell, but before any listing is completed, TM provides an authentication code to the seller.  That seller provides that authentication code to the purchaser of their choice.  Of course, if the seller would like to bypass this and sell on the F2F market without this option, they could do so as well.

    I think a hiccup would be how many platforms like 10C exist where fans could come to agreement to buy/sell, maybe not enough to warrant implementing this infrastructural change.

    In other words, give choice back to the seller.
    If the seller gets to choose the buyer that will lead to side-deals/bribes which break face value intent of F2F.
    If you look at the secondary market sites it is already broken. 
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,598
    Yes at this point it does feel like only fans are being prevented from transferring. Scalper sites appear to be selling at will. We only just got started, too. Long way to go till September.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • AB285441
    AB285441 Posts: 201
    edocon said:
    AB285441 said:
    Why can't F2F leverage an already existing authentication technology.  I don't know about you all, but I would be comfortable with providing an email address (i'd create a specific concert ticket email) and possibly a cell number to someone on here if they chose me to purchase the tickets through F2F.  Seller logs into TM, enters the purchaser's email/phone number in TM (rather then choosing to sell to the open secondary market).  That purchaser receives an authentication code from TM at that email/cell number, and can login and purchase the ticket using that authentication code.  

    Alternatively, maybe the seller logs into TM, decides to sell, but before any listing is completed, TM provides an authentication code to the seller.  That seller provides that authentication code to the purchaser of their choice.  Of course, if the seller would like to bypass this and sell on the F2F market without this option, they could do so as well.

    I think a hiccup would be how many platforms like 10C exist where fans could come to agreement to buy/sell, maybe not enough to warrant implementing this infrastructural change.

    In other words, give choice back to the seller.
    If the seller gets to choose the buyer that will lead to side-deals/bribes which break face value intent of F2F.
    It’s already broke.   I was intending the above to consist of transactions which are sourced through matches made such as this platform.  There are plenty of good people on here with no intent to make money and pass on to fellow fans.  Since the beginning of humanity bribes have existed.  I’m not proposing to eliminate the problem because it can’t be done.  More of a suggestion of a matchmaking market, where buyers and sellers have the same end goal.  
  • HailHailVitalogy
    HailHailVitalogy Posts: 6,013
    The Gorge 2006 will-call line was absolutely atrocious. The venue was half empty the first 3 songs.

    Allow transfers on F2F. If I just want to list, fine. If I find someone on here then let me transfer to their email, and when they accept the tickets they pay face value to the sender through TM. Charge a $3 fee.
    2003: Uniondale, MSG x2 | 2004: Reading | 2005: Gorge, Vancouver, Philly | 2006: East Rutherford x2, Gorge x2, Camden 1, Hartford | 2008: MSG x2, VA Beach | 2009: Philly x3 | 2010: MSG x2, Bristow | 2011: Alpine Valley x2 | 2012: MIA Philly | 2013: Wrigley, Charlottesville, Brooklyn 2 | 2014: Milan, Amsterdam 1 | 2016: MSG x2, Fenway x2, Wrigley 2 | 2018: Rome, Krakow, Berlin, Wrigley 2 | 2021: Sea Hear Now | 2022: San Diego, LA x2, MSG, Camden, Nashville, St. Louis, Denver | 2023: St. Paul 1, Chicago x2, Fort Worth x2, Austin 2 | 2024: Las Vegas 1, Seattle x2, Indy, MSG x2, Philly x2, Baltimore, Ohana 2 | 2025: Florida x2, Atlanta x2, Pittsburgh x2
  • Zod
    Zod Posts: 10,905
    AB285441 said:
    Why can't F2F leverage an already existing authentication technology.  I don't know about you all, but I would be comfortable with providing an email address (i'd create a specific concert ticket email) and possibly a cell number to someone on here if they chose me to purchase the tickets through F2F.  Seller logs into TM, enters the purchaser's email/phone number in TM (rather then choosing to sell to the open secondary market).  That purchaser receives an authentication code from TM at that email/cell number, and can login and purchase the ticket using that authentication code.  

    Alternatively, maybe the seller logs into TM, decides to sell, but before any listing is completed, TM provides an authentication code to the seller.  That seller provides that authentication code to the purchaser of their choice.  Of course, if the seller would like to bypass this and sell on the F2F market without this option, they could do so as well.

    I think a hiccup would be how many platforms like 10C exist where fans could come to agreement to buy/sell, maybe not enough to warrant implementing this infrastructural change.

    In other words, give choice back to the seller.

    Any time you allow it so you can transfer or sell tickets to a specific person, you've create a scenario where someone can ask for additional funds or compensation above what the portal asks for.   Even if you "transferred" them a specific person for face, because you're transferring to a known person, you could ask them to paypal you $200 first.   It would create another loophole for scalpers.
  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,531
    PJNB said:
    Are the people ok with this system set with tickets this tour? 
    I am not set with tickets but am not sure how much more they can do. Other than going back to some older methods that severely limit transferability and/or heavily favor seniority. Which by the way I am totally on board with but I understand why they've made some of the changes they have.
  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,531
    edited April 2024
    A lot of suggestions involve an awful lot of work on their end and we can certainly be asking too much. At the end of the day I appreciate the effort to scoop up great seats and do what they can to get those into fan club members' hands. Once demand gets super high and you couple that with people's desire for options and preferences around resale (not just the initial sale!) it seems like a massive headache.
    Post edited by pjl44 on
  • Zod
    Zod Posts: 10,905
    AB285441 said:
    edocon said:
    AB285441 said:
    Why can't F2F leverage an already existing authentication technology.  I don't know about you all, but I would be comfortable with providing an email address (i'd create a specific concert ticket email) and possibly a cell number to someone on here if they chose me to purchase the tickets through F2F.  Seller logs into TM, enters the purchaser's email/phone number in TM (rather then choosing to sell to the open secondary market).  That purchaser receives an authentication code from TM at that email/cell number, and can login and purchase the ticket using that authentication code.  

    Alternatively, maybe the seller logs into TM, decides to sell, but before any listing is completed, TM provides an authentication code to the seller.  That seller provides that authentication code to the purchaser of their choice.  Of course, if the seller would like to bypass this and sell on the F2F market without this option, they could do so as well.

    I think a hiccup would be how many platforms like 10C exist where fans could come to agreement to buy/sell, maybe not enough to warrant implementing this infrastructural change.

    In other words, give choice back to the seller.
    If the seller gets to choose the buyer that will lead to side-deals/bribes which break face value intent of F2F.
    It’s already broke.   I was intending the above to consist of transactions which are sourced through matches made such as this platform.  There are plenty of good people on here with no intent to make money and pass on to fellow fans.  Since the beginning of humanity bribes have existed.  I’m not proposing to eliminate the problem because it can’t be done.  More of a suggestion of a matchmaking market, where buyers and sellers have the same end goal.  
    Yah, but if the feature allows to match with a specific person, then someone else can use it to scalp.  The whole Fan2Fan thing worked because it was random, you couldn't choose who the tickets go to, just post 'em up, and a random grabs them preventing you from doing a side deal for more $$.

    Anything that lets you move tickets to a specific person is ripe for exploitation by people who don't mind reselling for more.

    That doesn't solve the problem that it appears to broken, as more bands have started to use fan2fan, scalpers have put more effort into thwarting it.

    I don't think we're going to see a lot of change.  All Fan2Fan is, is the TM reselling portal locked to a specific price.   There's nothing that complex about it. TM isn't going to invent something complicated for something they make zero dollars on.

    What's a low tech solution?  Going back to 2018, when tickets were locked (well you could transfer a single) but there was no fan2fan?

    I mean, I've been to hundreds and hundreds of concerts in my life, and I've eaten tickets to two of them.  That's not a bad ratio.   I suppose I'd be willing to eat a pair in a blue moon, if it meant 10c tickets couldn't be resold.


  • Indifference
    Indifference Posts: 2,759
    HailHailVitalogy said:
    The Gorge 2006 will-call line was absolutely atrocious. The venue was half empty the first 3 songs.

    Allow transfers on F2F. If I just want to list, fine. If I find someone on here then let me transfer to their email, and when they accept the tickets they pay face value to the sender through TM. Charge a $3 fee.
    I remember that line. I got out of it went to the front and realized just about everyone was skipping it and just walking up and getting tiks. Was an ugly scene for sure.

    SHOW COUNT: (170) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010/20's=114, US=124, CAN=15, Europe=20 ,New Zealand=4, Australia=5
    Mexico=1, Colombia=1 



  • ComeToTX
    ComeToTX Austin Posts: 8,064
    If fan2fan is going to 90% bots I’d rather get rid of it for fan club tix. Make all 10c tix non sellable and non transferable again. The current system is allowing people to put in for shows they’re not even sure they’ll go to and keeping tickets from other members. 
    This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
  • PJNB
    PJNB Posts: 13,890
    ComeToTX said:
    If fan2fan is going to 90% bots I’d rather get rid of it for fan club tix. Make all 10c tix non sellable and non transferable again. The current system is allowing people to put in for shows they’re not even sure they’ll go to and keeping tickets from other members. 
    Agreed
  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,890
    ComeToTX said:
    If fan2fan is going to 90% bots I’d rather get rid of it for fan club tix. Make all 10c tix non sellable and non transferable again. The current system is allowing people to put in for shows they’re not even sure they’ll go to and keeping tickets from other members. 

    In about five seconds, I found decently priced decently located Stones tickets at MetLife for around $500. PJ is about two grand at MSG for decent seats. Yes it’s a stadium, but is PJ THAT much more popular than the STONES, or does PJ manipulate ticket prices and supply? Of course most will not see all the problems PJ causes with their ticketing policies on this forum, just  easier to blame issues caused by TM allowing bots. Selling $2000 tickets on a legacy basis for $180 causes a myriad of supply v demand problems, but almost all here see 10c tix as some sort of panacea.

    And we never received an explanation how the lottery was conducted, which is what we are paying for, and how many apparently won as many as four NE shows which would seemingly be one in ten thousand odds.

  • ComeToTX
    ComeToTX Austin Posts: 8,064
    My wife and I were kind of discussing this last night. For some reason this tour seems to have much more demand than any of the ones since Covid. I was able to get tickets to all 10 shows I’ve been to since 2021 either through 10C or very easily through F2F. I wasn’t even able to sell a really good extra to Oakland. The demand for this tour seems…strange. 
    This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,531
    Lerxst1992 said:
    ComeToTX said:
    If fan2fan is going to 90% bots I’d rather get rid of it for fan club tix. Make all 10c tix non sellable and non transferable again. The current system is allowing people to put in for shows they’re not even sure they’ll go to and keeping tickets from other members. 

    In about five seconds, I found decently priced decently located Stones tickets at MetLife for around $500. PJ is about two grand at MSG for decent seats. Yes it’s a stadium, but is PJ THAT much more popular than the STONES, or does PJ manipulate ticket prices and supply? Of course most will not see all the problems PJ causes with their ticketing policies on this forum, just  easier to blame issues caused by TM allowing bots. Selling $2000 tickets on a legacy basis for $180 causes a myriad of supply v demand problems, but almost all here see 10c tix as some sort of panacea.

    And we never received an explanation how the lottery was conducted, which is what we are paying for, and how many apparently won as many as four NE shows which would seemingly be one in ten thousand odds.

    Expecting to have the band share the algorithm used for a ticket lottery draw is an unreasonable expectation 
  • Haijay
    Haijay Posts: 439
    ComeToTX said:
    My wife and I were kind of discussing this last night. For some reason this tour seems to have much more demand than any of the ones since Covid. I was able to get tickets to all 10 shows I’ve been to since 2021 either through 10C or very easily through F2F. I wasn’t even able to sell a really good extra to Oakland. The demand for this tour seems…strange. 
    I think a lot of people in the early post covid days were quite hesitant to jump back into it
  • craigraether
    craigraether Posts: 1,655
    ComeToTX said:
    My wife and I were kind of discussing this last night. For some reason this tour seems to have much more demand than any of the ones since Covid. I was able to get tickets to all 10 shows I’ve been to since 2021 either through 10C or very easily through F2F. I wasn’t even able to sell a really good extra to Oakland. The demand for this tour seems…strange. 
    Demand is being driven by the BOTs,... perceived , it will crater in a few weeks, and I will be easier than 2022. The reason f2f opened so late is due to low demand. TM was not selling anything after the main sale, all the uppers in LA and Sac have been the same since. TM held back the F2F to try to drive sales of leftover and premiums. Oh and if you think someone is going to pay 1500 to TickPick for seats that didnt sell at 950 (TM Premium) thats nuts... 
  • ComeToTX
    ComeToTX Austin Posts: 8,064
    I think you’re probably right. Wrigley 2 is the only other show I need tix for and I’m not worried at all. 
    This show, another show, a show here and a show there.

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