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America's Political Turmoil

brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,732
It almost seems ultra redundant for me to start this thread because we have talked about this all over the place from the metaphorical engine to the caboose, but I find the following summation  of the tangled web that is currently the state of U.S. politics to be spot on.  How we will ever extricate ourselves from this mess, if at all, is beyond me.  It's more than a bit strange to have followed our political meandering over the years and see it all end up as this pile of wreckage and steaming slag.  Thanks a lot, Republican Party.  As the article points out, the Democratic party is not perfect, but your legacy as Republicans during this era will be seen as pathetic and pointless. 
Here's the gifted article:

America’s Political Turmoil

A survey of the chaos across the U.S. political system.

Imagine if you were a foreign leader surveying the political chaos in the United States:

  • For the first time in history, a party has just fired its own speaker of the House in the middle of a term.

  • In the Senate, one of the two party leaders, who’s 81 years old, has twice recently frozen in public, unable to speak.

  • A Supreme Court justice has allowed wealthy political donors to finance a lavish lifestyle for him and his wife (and that same justice’s wife urged officials to overturn the 2020 presidential election result based on lies).

  • A likely nominee in the upcoming presidential election is facing four criminal trials and regularly speaks in apocalyptic terms about the country’s future.

  • That nominee is essentially tied in the polls with an 80-year-old president who many voters worry is too old to serve a second term.

If you were an ally of the U.S., you’d have to be worried. If you were an enemy, you’d have to be pleased.

“To many watching at home and abroad, the American way no longer seems to offer a case study in effective representative democracy,” Peter Baker of The Times writes. “Instead, it has become an example of disarray and discord, one that rewards extremism, challenges norms and threatens to divide a polarized country even further.”

Fractured and extreme

Many factors have contributed to this turmoil. Decades of stagnant living standards have caused voter frustration. Social media, along with the rise of a cable television network willing to promote falsehoods, has inflamed discourse. The decline of institutions — churches, labor unions, once-dominant local employers — has left Americans feeling unmoored. And aging political leaders have failed to groom strong successors.

But the single largest source of the chaos is the Republican Party.

I don’t say that lightly. Readers of this newsletter know that I think there is plenty of evidence that the Democratic Party also has problems. It has struggled in recent years to come up with effective policies on Covid school closures, illegal immigration and several other issues. Many working-class voters consider the party to be disdainful of them, which helps explain why its longtime troubles with white voters have recently spread to voters of color.

Still, every major political party has weaknesses. Despite theirs, the Democrats remain a functional party by almost any standard. Their moderate and progressive factions frequently work together. President Biden, like Barack Obama before him, has passed a long list of substantive legislation. Congressional Democrats have remained impressively united for two decades.

The Republican Party, by contrast, is both fractured and increasingly extreme. Tens of millions of Republican voters have embraced beliefs that are simply wrong: that Obama was born in Kenya, that Donald Trump was cheated out of re-election, that Covid vaccines don’t work, that human beings aren’t causing climate change. A crowd of Republican-aligned protesters violently attacked the Capitol in 2021, assaulting police officers and causing several deaths. Prominent Republican politicians, including Trump, have spoken positively about that attack and more generally about political violence.

Kevin McCarthy’s downfall as speaker is the latest sign of the party’s drift toward radicalism. He lost his job because a group of hard-right House members was furious with him for conducting policy negotiations that are inherent to democratic governance. “The ouster captures the degraded state of the Republican Party in this era of rage,” wrote The Wall Street Journal editorial board, a reliable voice of conservatism.

‘The greatest challenge’

When my colleagues and I asked democracy experts this week how to make sense of the country’s political turmoil, they emphasized that the central explanation was the Republican Party:

  • “The democratic system needs two viable parties,” Sarah Binder, a political scientist at George Washington University, said. “You need a set of leaders on both sides that have the confidence of their followers and have some understanding of the rules of the road.”

  • “In my lifetime, this is the greatest challenge that I’ve seen coming at us,” said Joseph Ellis, a Pulitzer Prize-winning historian.

  • Daniel Ziblatt, a co-author of the recent book “Tyranny of the Minority,” told me that the structure of the American political system was partly to blame: The Electoral College, the Senate and gerrymandering have allowed Republicans to wield power without appealing to most Americans. “Our constitution in this way is one of several factors radicalizing the Republican Party, leading it to turn away from democracy itself,” Ziblatt said.

  • “I think the country’s political class is aging and underperforming in many ways — I’m a longtime critic of gerontocracy. But that’s a second-order problem,” Brendan Nyhan of Dartmouth College said. “The first-order problems by far are the state of the G.O.P. and the electoral rules and institutions that make the threat it poses so significant.”

Even with all these problems, there are reasons for optimism. The Republican caucus in the Senate is more functional than in the House. Federal judges and election officials, from both parties, blocked Trump’s efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Candidates who endorsed his lies fared poorly in the 2022 midterms. It’s possible that a more functional Republican Party, committed to both conservatism and American democracy, will emerge in coming years.

But it is not assured. “Events of recent weeks have reminded us that the authoritarian threat isn’t going away,” Nyhan said.






“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













Comments

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    LoL! So we start a new thread on how the left does not like anyone thinking different then them.


  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,732
    I guess I forgot to add: For serious minded folks only who are capable of doing more that posting weak memes. 
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    sheckyshecky San Francisco Posts: 1,441
    edited October 2023
    LoL! So we start a new thread on how the left does not like anyone thinking different then them.



     :) Ha ha ha! Hilarious! And so true. "America's Political Turmoil" could be easily vanquished if we just got rid of the Republicans and the Independents. Why in the world does America need people of different opinions and points of view? One political party is plenty, as long as it's the Democratic Party. ;)
    Post edited by shecky on
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    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,833
    it seems conservatives, in addition to being gullible idiots, also can't fucking read. 
    Flight Risk out NOW!

    www.headstonesband.com




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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,732
    shecky said:
    LoL! So we start a new thread on how the left does not like anyone thinking different then them.



     :) Ha ha ha! Hilarious! And so true. "America's Political Turmoil" could be easily vanquished if we just got rid of the Republicans and the Independents. Why in the world does America need people of different opinions and points of view? One political party is plenty, as long as it's the Democratic Party. ;)
    Another swing and a miss.
    it seems conservatives, in addition to being gullible idiots, also can't fucking read. 

    We could use an AMT remedial reading course thread, for sure.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,732
    I'm going to add here that I don't at all think we should "we just got rid of the Republicans and the Independents" (and I think most everybody here would agree with that).  I certainly don't want a one party government- no way!  But the Republican party has gone off the rails and I do strongly believe it needs a major overhaul.  For some inexplicable reason, Republicans in general have allowed a minority of radical right wing politicians to hijack their party.  If you are a Republican and you want your party to survive, you need to stop caving in to your radical minority, stop expecting someone else to do the work, and start to do something about it yourself.  If you don't do that, you will have no one to blame but yourselves when more and more reasonable and sensible people turn against you.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,833
    let's think about this objectively though. if the same thing happened to the D party, but it was the only way to win (like if RFK Jr was the runaway front runner to beat Trump and Biden was polling terribly), would you want an overhaul, or would you stomach it so you could have some policies you agree with enacted?
    Flight Risk out NOW!

    www.headstonesband.com




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    static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    it seems conservatives, in addition to being gullible idiots, also can't fucking read. 
    I think the problem is comprehension.  They can sound out the letters just fine, I just question their understanding.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
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    static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    LoL! So we start a new thread on how the left does not like anyone thinking different then them.


    Than them is the correct grammar.  Additionally, the point that you are suggesting was not made anywhere in the article.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • Options
    static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    let's think about this objectively though. if the same thing happened to the D party, but it was the only way to win (like if RFK Jr was the runaway front runner to beat Trump and Biden was polling terribly), would you want an overhaul, or would you stomach it so you could have some policies you agree with enacted?
    I already want an overhaul.  In that scenario I would want an overhaul even more!
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • Options
    Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 6,117
    LoL! So we start a new thread on how the left does not like anyone thinking different than  wouldn’t consider that thinking.”them.



    I wouldn’t consider that “thinking.”
  • Options
    Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 10,496

    Conservatives would rather burn the country down than share it with people they don't like... there's no reasoning with that mentality. 
  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,732
    let's think about this objectively though. if the same thing happened to the D party, but it was the only way to win (like if RFK Jr was the runaway front runner to beat Trump and Biden was polling terribly), would you want an overhaul, or would you stomach it so you could have some policies you agree with enacted?

    Well, honestly I would and DO want- at least in some ways- an overhaul of the Democratic party.  I want the Democratic party to be stronger.  Too often, Democrat leaders are too tentative and weak in their stance. Agree or disagree withe her, AOC is a excellent example of how Dems need to take a stronger stand on things.
    Secondly is Dems weak stance on environment.  Are we going to keep fucking around with these weak policies toward environment until there is nothing left to save?  There is no excuse for that. 
    So yeah, I am far and above a stronger supporter of Dems than Republican- hugely so- but my belief is that the Democratic party needs to make some major changes.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Options
    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,833
    brianlux said:
    let's think about this objectively though. if the same thing happened to the D party, but it was the only way to win (like if RFK Jr was the runaway front runner to beat Trump and Biden was polling terribly), would you want an overhaul, or would you stomach it so you could have some policies you agree with enacted?

    Well, honestly I would and DO want- at least in some ways- an overhaul of the Democratic party.  I want the Democratic party to be stronger.  Too often, Democrat leaders are too tentative and weak in their stance. Agree or disagree withe her, AOC is a excellent example of how Dems need to take a stronger stand on things.
    Secondly is Dems weak stance on environment.  Are we going to keep fucking around with these weak policies toward environment until there is nothing left to save?  There is no excuse for that. 
    So yeah, I am far and above a stronger supporter of Dems than Republican- hugely so- but my belief is that the Democratic party needs to make some major changes.
    I think asking the Dems to go even further left is a major stretch at this point. They still have big donors to satisfy, and none of them give two shits about our trees. it's the system that needs to be overhauled where special interests can't influence policy. But that's a cat that is so far out of the bag...
    Flight Risk out NOW!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,732
    edited October 2023

    Conservatives would rather burn the country down than share it with people they don't like... there's no reasoning with that mentality. 

    That's exactly what they are doing.  They are like little children throwing tantrums.  It's embarrassing to live in a country with these far right conservative lawmakers pulling so many strings strings and wrecking so much havoc just to get their way.  Other countries look at us and can't help but wonder, what the fuck?

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Options
    Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 10,496
    edited October 2023
    nvm
    Post edited by Merkin Baller on
  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,732
    brianlux said:
    let's think about this objectively though. if the same thing happened to the D party, but it was the only way to win (like if RFK Jr was the runaway front runner to beat Trump and Biden was polling terribly), would you want an overhaul, or would you stomach it so you could have some policies you agree with enacted?

    Well, honestly I would and DO want- at least in some ways- an overhaul of the Democratic party.  I want the Democratic party to be stronger.  Too often, Democrat leaders are too tentative and weak in their stance. Agree or disagree withe her, AOC is a excellent example of how Dems need to take a stronger stand on things.
    Secondly is Dems weak stance on environment.  Are we going to keep fucking around with these weak policies toward environment until there is nothing left to save?  There is no excuse for that. 
    So yeah, I am far and above a stronger supporter of Dems than Republican- hugely so- but my belief is that the Democratic party needs to make some major changes.
    I think asking the Dems to go even further left is a major stretch at this point. They still have big donors to satisfy, and none of them give two shits about our trees. it's the system that needs to be overhauled where special interests can't influence policy. But that's a cat that is so far out of the bag...

    Honestly, I don't expect that to happen anyway.  My thinking stems from reading Dave Foreman's Confessions of an Eco-Warrior  (Foreman started the original Earth First! movement which was infiltrated and corrupted to make it look like a violent organization.  Foreman's group was adamant about causing no harm to humans or animals.)
    In his book, Foreman talked about how if lawmakers only support moderate environmental efforts, that is what we will get or less.  So his strategy was to advocate for measures that were stronger than what we knew would pass with the intent to at least see measure pass that would be stronger than if we tried for moderate or weak measures in the first place.
    So that has become my m.o.  I try to throw the ball 300 feet and hope I can get it to go to 200.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Options
    cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,109
    It is clear to me, as someone who was a republican, that the republican party is greatly to blame for where we are.  They own the vast majority of the blame.  And it stems from 1 overall political thought process....all or none.  They have taken away the negotiation and compromise that often lead to a better overall situation.  

    I have my fair share of complaints with the democrats, especially their left wing....and they share some of this as well.  But for me it seems like 80-20.  
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Options
    Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 6,117
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    let's think about this objectively though. if the same thing happened to the D party, but it was the only way to win (like if RFK Jr was the runaway front runner to beat Trump and Biden was polling terribly), would you want an overhaul, or would you stomach it so you could have some policies you agree with enacted?

    Well, honestly I would and DO want- at least in some ways- an overhaul of the Democratic party.  I want the Democratic party to be stronger.  Too often, Democrat leaders are too tentative and weak in their stance. Agree or disagree withe her, AOC is a excellent example of how Dems need to take a stronger stand on things.
    Secondly is Dems weak stance on environment.  Are we going to keep fucking around with these weak policies toward environment until there is nothing left to save?  There is no excuse for that. 
    So yeah, I am far and above a stronger supporter of Dems than Republican- hugely so- but my belief is that the Democratic party needs to make some major changes.
    I think asking the Dems to go even further left is a major stretch at this point. They still have big donors to satisfy, and none of them give two shits about our trees. it's the system that needs to be overhauled where special interests can't influence policy. But that's a cat that is so far out of the bag...

    Honestly, I don't expect that to happen anyway.  My thinking stems from reading Dave Foreman's Confessions of an Eco-Warrior  (Foreman started the original Earth First! movement which was infiltrated and corrupted to make it look like a violent organization.  Foreman's group was adamant about causing no harm to humans or animals.)
    In his book, Foreman talked about how if lawmakers only support moderate environmental efforts, that is what we will get or less.  So his strategy was to advocate for measures that were stronger than what we knew would pass with the intent to at least see measure pass that would be stronger than if we tried for moderate or weak measures in the first place.
    So that has become my m.o.  I try to throw the ball 300 feet and hope I can get it to go to 200.


    The Dems have a big structural disadvantage. A lot of what they want to accomplish works against the “meat and potatoes” independents. For example,

    Want to save the environment?  Well your EVs cost a lot more $ and renewable programs will raise my taxes.

    Want to help the immigrants? Well your migrants are going to take all the cheap housing and jobs we need.

    Want to help the middle class and poor by saving $10k on an enormously expensive education? Well just check out the replies on this left leaning forum!
  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,732
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    let's think about this objectively though. if the same thing happened to the D party, but it was the only way to win (like if RFK Jr was the runaway front runner to beat Trump and Biden was polling terribly), would you want an overhaul, or would you stomach it so you could have some policies you agree with enacted?

    Well, honestly I would and DO want- at least in some ways- an overhaul of the Democratic party.  I want the Democratic party to be stronger.  Too often, Democrat leaders are too tentative and weak in their stance. Agree or disagree withe her, AOC is a excellent example of how Dems need to take a stronger stand on things.
    Secondly is Dems weak stance on environment.  Are we going to keep fucking around with these weak policies toward environment until there is nothing left to save?  There is no excuse for that. 
    So yeah, I am far and above a stronger supporter of Dems than Republican- hugely so- but my belief is that the Democratic party needs to make some major changes.
    I think asking the Dems to go even further left is a major stretch at this point. They still have big donors to satisfy, and none of them give two shits about our trees. it's the system that needs to be overhauled where special interests can't influence policy. But that's a cat that is so far out of the bag...

    Honestly, I don't expect that to happen anyway.  My thinking stems from reading Dave Foreman's Confessions of an Eco-Warrior  (Foreman started the original Earth First! movement which was infiltrated and corrupted to make it look like a violent organization.  Foreman's group was adamant about causing no harm to humans or animals.)
    In his book, Foreman talked about how if lawmakers only support moderate environmental efforts, that is what we will get or less.  So his strategy was to advocate for measures that were stronger than what we knew would pass with the intent to at least see measure pass that would be stronger than if we tried for moderate or weak measures in the first place.
    So that has become my m.o.  I try to throw the ball 300 feet and hope I can get it to go to 200.


    The Dems have a big structural disadvantage. A lot of what they want to accomplish works against the “meat and potatoes” independents. For example,

    Want to save the environment?  Well your EVs cost a lot more $ and renewable programs will raise my taxes.

    Want to help the immigrants? Well your migrants are going to take all the cheap housing and jobs we need.

    Want to help the middle class and poor by saving $10k on an enormously expensive education? Well just check out the replies on this left leaning forum!

    Again, some of these things are not aiming high enough or broadly enough. 
    Want to protect the environment? Take public transit, drive less, have fewer kids.  (EVs miss the mark may help, but they are not the solution).
    Want to help immigrants?  Fund education for people in poor countries, help their own country to grow stranger and stabilize, and fewer people will want to emigrate in the first place.
    Want to help the middle class?  Reduce education costs and encourage more people to enter trade schools and trade training.  Not everyone needs to go to college.  There are great job and careers opportunities that require skill training that is not helped by taking half the classes that are required for a basic B.A. or B.S. degree.  I loved school and have two degrees and and two field specific certificates and enough credits such that if I had concentrated them on one subject I could have gone for a Doctorate. But I have a nephew who has developed mechanical skills who never graduated from high school and he makes more money than I ever have.

    We need to look outside our little boxes of beliefs and do more that makes sense.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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