one thing I don't like about howard's criticism; focus on the behaviour, not on her appearance. don't shame a woman for showing her body how she wants to, howard. that'll get you nowhere.
"every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"
0
curmudgeoness
Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 4,021
One would think people would collectively agree that an elected member of congress acting out and fondling her date’s junk and getting felt up herself in a very public setting isn’t a good thing, but here we are.
If you read through my posts instead of inferring I stated that I thought it was gross. It's just not noteworthy to me. Most politicians are trash and some are better than others at hiding their shit. This is true historically. We have had some real pieces of shit from every party. Why would anyone be surprised that one of the worst members of congress in recent history was groping in a theater. I already don't like her but this doesn't make me dislike her less nor will it keep her supporters from supporting her. But here we are. Getting upset about a crap person having a relatively tame (by today's standards) moment.
Decorum of elected officials. I don't care if you are wearing tennis shoes, tan pants etc. Are you doing a good job. Fine. Bill Clinton did pretty good while being a serial philanderer.. Are you doing a bad job thats what i will judge. Imo she does a terrible job, but I couldn't care less about what she did one night in a theater, nor do I think it rises to headline news.
From here on out, I will ask all my female coworkers (office setting) if they ever “pull a Boebert “ or “feel up a Boebert” in public. Guaranteed if I try that I risk my job. So it’s not incidental, it can cost most of us our employment. She brought this behavior into public spaces and public discussion, yet we can’t publicly discuss it? That’s why it’s noteworthy, it’s rare behavior like this on public display, whether or not from an elected official.
well now you are talking about something different. I'm not going to lose my job if I'm caught on security camera getting frisky with my wife in a theatre. and neither (presumably) will you. asking female coworkers of their sexual behaviour in the workplace? yeah, that's another animal.
she acted like a pig in public, full stop. and there are different standards for public people. 20 years ago this would have been a scandal and probably caused her resignation, even in the GOP. But 20 years ago, she wouldn't even be in congress. so there's that.
the fact that it was a first date is, well, something else. LOL
I don't know, Hugh. At my husband's company, your public behavior is seen as a reflection on the company, and there could well be consequences. Certainly anyone in a visible position -- corporate officer, etc. -- would be risking their job. A lower-level employee would fly beneath the radar, but not senior management.
All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
One would think people would collectively agree that an elected member of congress acting out and fondling her date’s junk and getting felt up herself in a very public setting isn’t a good thing, but here we are.
If you read through my posts instead of inferring I stated that I thought it was gross. It's just not noteworthy to me. Most politicians are trash and some are better than others at hiding their shit. This is true historically. We have had some real pieces of shit from every party. Why would anyone be surprised that one of the worst members of congress in recent history was groping in a theater. I already don't like her but this doesn't make me dislike her less nor will it keep her supporters from supporting her. But here we are. Getting upset about a crap person having a relatively tame (by today's standards) moment.
Decorum of elected officials. I don't care if you are wearing tennis shoes, tan pants etc. Are you doing a good job. Fine. Bill Clinton did pretty good while being a serial philanderer.. Are you doing a bad job thats what i will judge. Imo she does a terrible job, but I couldn't care less about what she did one night in a theater, nor do I think it rises to headline news.
From here on out, I will ask all my female coworkers (office setting) if they ever “pull a Boebert “ or “feel up a Boebert” in public. Guaranteed if I try that I risk my job. So it’s not incidental, it can cost most of us our employment. She brought this behavior into public spaces and public discussion, yet we can’t publicly discuss it? That’s why it’s noteworthy, it’s rare behavior like this on public display, whether or not from an elected official.
well now you are talking about something different. I'm not going to lose my job if I'm caught on security camera getting frisky with my wife in a theatre. and neither (presumably) will you. asking female coworkers of their sexual behaviour in the workplace? yeah, that's another animal.
she acted like a pig in public, full stop. and there are different standards for public people. 20 years ago this would have been a scandal and probably caused her resignation, even in the GOP. But 20 years ago, she wouldn't even be in congress. so there's that.
the fact that it was a first date is, well, something else. LOL
Alanis Morrisette sung about this and we raved her for it. Today? Not so much. Well, we still have WAP so maybe we do?
I wonder if we are converting back to the 50's where everyone on the outside is supposed to be prim and proper/prudish but, when the lights are out and the freak flag flies now we take exception to it?
Or it's in public and you're an idiot?
I still think context matters -- I said it before, I'll keep saying it. People in our country get all worked up about sex. Sex in itself is not bad, dirty, evil; it's a natural, basic biological function. So is defecating; and yet we frown on taking a dump in the middle of the street -- or in a store, or in the middle of a theater. Go home, go to a hotel, get as freaky as you want; don't have sex at the mall or in a theater showing a family-friendly production!
This isn't difficult: just as singing along for all you're worth at a PJ show is okay and doing the same at an acoustic solo Ed show isn't, context matters.
All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
0
curmudgeoness
Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 4,021
Americans Are Sleepwalking Through a National Emergency
"The United States of America is facing a threat from a sometimes violent cult while a nuclear armed power wages war on the border of our closest allies. And yet, many Americans sleepwalk as if they are living in normal times instead of in an ongoing crisis..."
He's not wrong.
Sounds like you're not one of the people sleepwalking through this crisis, therefore you're not one of the people who needs to read it? IDK.
I hear you about Tom Nichols being late to the party, but to that I would say better late then never, I guess.
one thing I don't like about howard's criticism; focus on the behaviour, not on her appearance. don't shame a woman for showing her body how she wants to, howard. that'll get you nowhere.
Some of us here were focused on her behavior, and that was dismissed as kink shaming, or "both sides" or for other reasons.
0
curmudgeoness
Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 4,021
Americans Are Sleepwalking Through a National Emergency
"The United States of America is facing a threat from a sometimes violent cult while a nuclear armed power wages war on the border of our closest allies. And yet, many Americans sleepwalk as if they are living in normal times instead of in an ongoing crisis..."
He's not wrong.
Sounds like you're not one of the people sleepwalking through this crisis, therefore you're not one of the people who needs to read it? IDK.
I hear you about Tom Nichols being late to the party, but to that I would say better late then never, I guess.
He's on our team, and he has been anti-orange a$$hole from the start, but I think he has had too much faith in existing norms to constrain this guy and his cult, when he's shown from the start that he doesn't give a damn about norms (or morals, or laws, etc.).
And I'm definitely team "Better late than never," which is why I'm more capable than some folks of forgiving Chris Christie. But I could use some freaking guidance, here, you know?
All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought your initial takeaway from this was lamenting the presence of cameras in our society.
yes, just an observation. how was that dismissing anything? I was just commenting on a different aspect of the incident.
Seemed like an odd first reaction, and yes, also dismissive of the actual incident at hand... as if the cameras were the problem and not the behavior itself. That's how I read it, but maybe that's on me for inferring the wrong thing.
Americans Are Sleepwalking Through a National Emergency
"The United States of America is facing a threat from a sometimes violent cult while a nuclear armed power wages war on the border of our closest allies. And yet, many Americans sleepwalk as if they are living in normal times instead of in an ongoing crisis..."
He's not wrong.
Sounds like you're not one of the people sleepwalking through this crisis, therefore you're not one of the people who needs to read it? IDK.
I hear you about Tom Nichols being late to the party, but to that I would say better late then never, I guess.
He's on our team, and he has been anti-orange a$$hole from the start, but I think he has had too much faith in existing norms to constrain this guy and his cult, when he's shown from the start that he doesn't give a damn about norms (or morals, or laws, etc.).
And I'm definitely team "Better late than never," which is why I'm more capable than some folks of forgiving Chris Christie. But I could use some freaking guidance, here, you know?
I don’t believe many Dems are forgiving Christie, just some are acknowledging it’s important for at least one republican to speak truth on the gop campaign trail and debate stage. Of course they will box him in a corner and mute his message, but he was the first candidate to strongly speak against trump. I ain’t forgiving him but happy he is blunt about trump.
If the Dems want to ignore existing norms then neither party respects them and they are lost. Bottom line is if 45% of the country doesn’t mind living in a Republican dictatorship, that’s possibly where we are headed for since very few have the appetite for violence regarding politics. Heck, can’t even discuss Covid on the porch.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought your initial takeaway from this was lamenting the presence of cameras in our society.
yes, just an observation. how was that dismissing anything? I was just commenting on a different aspect of the incident.
Seemed like an odd first reaction, and yes, also dismissive of the actual incident at hand... as if the cameras were the problem and not the behavior itself. That's how I read it, but maybe that's on me for inferring the wrong thing.
wasn't my first reaction. my first reaction was "I don't care what she does on her own time, the problem is the hypocrisy". So yes, I suppose you're right that I was initially dismissive. I changed my mind after thinking about it some more.
my "camera" comment wasn't about the theatre camera. I found it odd that:
1) multiple cameras throughout the neighborhood caught her every move leaving the theatre, and 2) ALL of that footage, I would assume from several different businesses, was all released to the public (when it didn't really contain any relevant footage).
I didn't say nor infer the footage was the problem. Just the big brotherishness kinda freaked me out.
"every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"
Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought your initial takeaway from this was lamenting the presence of cameras in our society.
yes, just an observation. how was that dismissing anything? I was just commenting on a different aspect of the incident.
Seemed like an odd first reaction, and yes, also dismissive of the actual incident at hand... as if the cameras were the problem and not the behavior itself. That's how I read it, but maybe that's on me for inferring the wrong thing.
wasn't my first reaction. my first reaction was "I don't care what she does on her own time, the problem is the hypocrisy". So yes, I suppose you're right that I was initially dismissive. I changed my mind after thinking about it some more.
my "camera" comment wasn't about the theatre camera. I found it odd that:
1) multiple cameras throughout the neighborhood caught her every move leaving the theatre, and 2) ALL of that footage, I would assume from several different businesses, was all released to the public (when it didn't really contain any relevant footage).
I didn't say nor infer the footage was the problem. Just the big brotherishness kinda freaked me out.
I personally don't care what she does in her free time either, but it's an embarrassment for en elected representative to be carrying on like that in a public setting, (something I would think we both agree on, in addition to the hypocrisy etc).
& I don't disagree about being put off by the camera footage / big brother aspect... I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that the cameras, including the one outside were all from the theater which IMO had every right to release the footage after she denied their version of the incident. (I also don't know that that's the timeline of events / footage being released, that's an assumption too)
If that wasn't your first / initial reaction, I apologize for misreading.
I was listening to the Vice 2000's shows and Stern was a topic and how he made amends w all these starts but never did with the people whom worked on his show like John, Jackie and Grillo for example.
I forgot how ruthless he was. I never realized how Opie and Anthony were WORSE than he was, lol. To think that I thought Richard Simmons was overreacting on that show too...
House flounders as GOP fails to appease hard-right members on funding By Marianna Sotomayor, Leigh Ann Caldwell, Paul Kane and Amy B Wang September 19, 2023 at 20:06 ET The prospect of a government shutdown escalated significantly Tuesday as House Republicans’ intraparty tensions again came to a head in a dramatic floor vote amid negotiations on a nascent plan to keep the government open. House Republicans’ inability to find agreement on even a stopgap funding bill that is destined to fail in the Senate again puts into focus the challenge before House Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) as he tries to unite his party and avoid a government shutdown. Though Republicans largely agree on the need to significantly curb federal spending, divisions mostly over process have given any five lawmakers enormous power in the razor-thin majority. But as hard-liners dug in on their opposition, their more moderate counterparts began to firm up contingency plans for a bipartisan effort to keep the government open, publicly condemning their colleagues’ obstinance. Some Republicans are seriously considering getting behind a shell bill that could, as soon as next week, serve as the vehicle that allows moderates to supersede McCarthy’s control of the House floor and force a vote to keep the government open, according to three people familiar with the plan who, like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity to outline preliminary and private conversations. What exactly gets included in such a discharge petition remains unknown, but those familiar with the planning said it would include a short-term funding plan to avert a shutdown that could garner enough support from House Democrats and the Senate.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
these assholes are going to shut down the government for no reason.
seems like they shut it down all the time. at least in the past i could kind of see their reasoning even though i strongly disagreed. this time though it is just plain stupid.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Well, I call bullshit on relaxing the dress code. I say, show up dressed the way a professional we overpay (most of them) should be dressed, or show up with no clothes on at all. Hoodies? Shorts? Casual shoes? And they call themselves leaders? Bullshit.
They need to take some lessons from someone classy like Wynton Marsalis:
One would think people would collectively agree that an elected member of congress acting out and fondling her date’s junk and getting felt up herself in a very public setting isn’t a good thing, but here we are.
If you read through my posts instead of inferring I stated that I thought it was gross. It's just not noteworthy to me. Most politicians are trash and some are better than others at hiding their shit. This is true historically. We have had some real pieces of shit from every party. Why would anyone be surprised that one of the worst members of congress in recent history was groping in a theater. I already don't like her but this doesn't make me dislike her less nor will it keep her supporters from supporting her. But here we are. Getting upset about a crap person having a relatively tame (by today's standards) moment.
Decorum of elected officials. I don't care if you are wearing tennis shoes, tan pants etc. Are you doing a good job. Fine. Bill Clinton did pretty good while being a serial philanderer.. Are you doing a bad job thats what i will judge. Imo she does a terrible job, but I couldn't care less about what she did one night in a theater, nor do I think it rises to headline news.
From here on out, I will ask all my female coworkers (office setting) if they ever “pull a Boebert “ or “feel up a Boebert” in public. Guaranteed if I try that I risk my job. So it’s not incidental, it can cost most of us our employment. She brought this behavior into public spaces and public discussion, yet we can’t publicly discuss it? That’s why it’s noteworthy, it’s rare behavior like this on public display, whether or not from an elected official.
well now you are talking about something different. I'm not going to lose my job if I'm caught on security camera getting frisky with my wife in a theatre. and neither (presumably) will you. asking female coworkers of their sexual behaviour in the workplace? yeah, that's another animal.
she acted like a pig in public, full stop. and there are different standards for public people. 20 years ago this would have been a scandal and probably caused her resignation, even in the GOP. But 20 years ago, she wouldn't even be in congress. so there's that.
the fact that it was a first date is, well, something else. LOL
Alanis Morrisette sung about this and we raved her for it. Today? Not so much. Well, we still have WAP so maybe we do?
I wonder if we are converting back to the 50's where everyone on the outside is supposed to be prim and proper/prudish but, when the lights are out and the freak flag flies now we take exception to it?
Or it's in public and you're an idiot?
That's a weird standard... and I'm pretty sure she meant a movie theater, not watching the Lion King on Broadway.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
0
curmudgeoness
Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 4,021
I'd have to agree. A congressperson should not be showing up to work in sweats. sorry, fedderman. not appropriate.
(cue the "bigger problems to worry about" crowd)
I think both can be true; Fetterman could choose more appropriate clothing for appearing on the floor of the Senate, and we collectively could worry a lot more about the asshats who are trying to overturn our democratic norms rather than about what anyone is wearing.
All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
Comments
I don't know, Hugh. At my husband's company, your public behavior is seen as a reflection on the company, and there could well be consequences. Certainly anyone in a visible position -- corporate officer, etc. -- would be risking their job. A lower-level employee would fly beneath the radar, but not senior management.
I'm still waiting for the part where they investigate the $2B Jared got from the Saudis. Maybe they'll get around to that next week?
I hear you about Tom Nichols being late to the party, but to that I would say better late then never, I guess.
If the Dems want to ignore existing norms then neither party respects them and they are lost. Bottom line is if 45% of the country doesn’t mind living in a Republican dictatorship, that’s possibly where we are headed for since very few have the appetite for violence regarding politics. Heck, can’t even discuss Covid on the porch.
my "camera" comment wasn't about the theatre camera. I found it odd that:
1) multiple cameras throughout the neighborhood caught her every move leaving the theatre, and
2) ALL of that footage, I would assume from several different businesses, was all released to the public (when it didn't really contain any relevant footage).
I didn't say nor infer the footage was the problem. Just the big brotherishness kinda freaked me out.
& I don't disagree about being put off by the camera footage / big brother aspect... I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that the cameras, including the one outside were all from the theater which IMO had every right to release the footage after she denied their version of the incident.
(I also don't know that that's the timeline of events / footage being released, that's an assumption too)
If that wasn't your first / initial reaction, I apologize for misreading.
I forgot how ruthless he was. I never realized how Opie and Anthony were WORSE than he was, lol. To think that I thought Richard Simmons was overreacting on that show too...
By Marianna Sotomayor, Leigh Ann Caldwell, Paul Kane and Amy B Wang
September 19, 2023 at 20:06 ET
The prospect of a government shutdown escalated significantly Tuesday as House Republicans’ intraparty tensions again came to a head in a dramatic floor vote amid negotiations on a nascent plan to keep the government open.
House Republicans’ inability to find agreement on even a stopgap funding bill that is destined to fail in the Senate again puts into focus the challenge before House Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) as he tries to unite his party and avoid a government shutdown. Though Republicans largely agree on the need to significantly curb federal spending, divisions mostly over process have given any five lawmakers enormous power in the razor-thin majority.
But as hard-liners dug in on their opposition, their more moderate counterparts began to firm up contingency plans for a bipartisan effort to keep the government open, publicly condemning their colleagues’ obstinance.
Some Republicans are seriously considering getting behind a shell bill that could, as soon as next week, serve as the vehicle that allows moderates to supersede McCarthy’s control of the House floor and force a vote to keep the government open, according to three people familiar with the plan who, like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity to outline preliminary and private conversations. What exactly gets included in such a discharge petition remains unknown, but those familiar with the planning said it would include a short-term funding plan to avert a shutdown that could garner enough support from House Democrats and the Senate.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
seems like they shut it down all the time. at least in the past i could kind of see their reasoning even though i strongly disagreed. this time though it is just plain stupid.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
dress code. dare I tag @brianlux on this one? lol
(cue the "bigger problems to worry about" crowd)
ok, you and Brian can tell him no
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I think both can be true; Fetterman could choose more appropriate clothing for appearing on the floor of the Senate, and we collectively could worry a lot more about the asshats who are trying to overturn our democratic norms rather than about what anyone is wearing.