America's Gun Violence #2

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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,036
    The Juggler said:

    Like the money in the bank is your money and if the bank gets robbed, you’ll never see your money again? And I’m not sure where the esteemed Ted Crud deposits his hard earned coin, maybe Cancun, but all the banks I’ve ever used have never had an armed police officer in it. Cameras, signs asking you to remove your hat, hood and sunglasses, thick glass partitions between you and the bank teller and exploding dye packs, sure. Armed cops, c’mon man! Even had a bank robbery at my local branch at the lunch hour on a beautiful weekday. Exploding dye pack coated the perp in red dye. He got about four blocks. Quite a kerfluffle. Ted Crud is a putz. Thanks Tejas.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,111
    Why wouldn’t you want armed police officers in schools? I lean left and absolutely despise Ted cruz but don’t understand why anyone would vote against this.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,036
    mcgruff10 said:
    Why wouldn’t you want armed police officers in schools? I lean left and absolutely despise Ted cruz but don’t understand why anyone would vote against this.  
    How much time do you have? Pull up a chair, grab that big ol bottle of red and have the ice machine within arms reach. I’ll be right over with a case for after your cellar runs dry.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,400
    mcgruff10 said:
    Why wouldn’t you want armed police officers in schools? I lean left and absolutely despise Ted cruz but don’t understand why anyone would vote against this.  
    It's never as simple as it sounds. Ted had some caveats in his package and ultimately didnt support the bipartisan effort that was passed. As a rule, I don't believe anything old Ted says at face value. He's a scum bag. If you've watched the Nashville body cams, you can see how many officers it took to take that shooter down efficiently. Not that adding one armed officer might not improve odds, but it's more reactive than proactive and doesn't get at the real issue of guns.

    https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2022/09/14/democrats-block-texas-sen-ted-cruzs-bid-for-more-cops-and-counselors-in-schools/
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,340
    mcgruff10 said:
    Why wouldn’t you want armed police officers in schools? I lean left and absolutely despise Ted cruz but don’t understand why anyone would vote against this.  

    To protect from external threats it's hard to argue that. My question would be how often are the so-called school resource officers used in a law enforcement capacity inside the school.
    Are you aware of any studies done you can point me to that looked at the use of arrest powers during school hours against students compared to schools without these officers present?

    I've seen at least one investigative TV show that kind of looked at a handful of schools across the country where School administration utilize the arrest powers of law enforcement present in the schools to handle disciplinary issues with a given student. Would seem to me that that's not why those officers were placed in schools to begin with. So I wonder just how prevalent that use of force is during school hours against students.
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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
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  • josevolution
    josevolution Posts: 31,553
    I’d rather the money gets used to secure schools perimeter and have guards at the school main driveway entrance with barricade that has to be electronically opened! Too bad it takes longer for classes to start too bad you can’t just drive up and let your kid out of your car too bad you the teacher has to stay longer to finish your day, but as long as perpetrators can get inside of schools even with armed guards inside you won’t stop every massacre 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,760
    edited April 2023
    One thing that didn't deter the Louisville shooter: Kentucky allows permit less conceal & carry.

    Kind of blows up the whole 'gun free zones are more prone to mass shootings' argument.   
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,340
    so they report to prison everyday then?
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,824
    josevolution said:
    I’d rather the money gets used to secure schools perimeter and have guards at the school main driveway entrance with barricade that has to be electronically opened! Too bad it takes longer for classes to start too bad you can’t just drive up and let your kid out of your car too bad you the teacher has to stay longer to finish your day, but as long as perpetrators can get inside of schools even with armed guards inside you won’t stop every massacre 
    Nothing will stop every single one of them. I haven't looked it up, but I'm guessing a lot of not most shooters didn't drive right up to the front. I don't see a secured driveway being very effective. 
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,821
    mcgruff10 said:
    Why wouldn’t you want armed police officers in schools? I lean left and absolutely despise Ted cruz but don’t understand why anyone would vote against this.  
    I personally think it’s a reasonable step if it’s a short term step while you work on all the other issues. It’s not going to stop things from happening but it could reduce the death toll.  So I’m fine with making that investment at Public schools (private schools can find their own security)…but it has to be just part of the solution….a stop gap as we deal with guns and access to guns. 


    hippiemom = goodness
  • josevolution
    josevolution Posts: 31,553
    mace1229 said:
    josevolution said:
    I’d rather the money gets used to secure schools perimeter and have guards at the school main driveway entrance with barricade that has to be electronically opened! Too bad it takes longer for classes to start too bad you can’t just drive up and let your kid out of your car too bad you the teacher has to stay longer to finish your day, but as long as perpetrators can get inside of schools even with armed guards inside you won’t stop every massacre 
    Nothing will stop every single one of them. I haven't looked it up, but I'm guessing a lot of not most shooters didn't drive right up to the front. I don't see a secured driveway being very effective. 
    Most I’m sure got in through back/side doors but if you can’t access those doors by securing the school perimeters and having guards at entrances/driveways making sure who ever drives up is there for legitimate reasons by showing proof of who you are I believe it would help! My own theory that’s all, armed guards inside schools would have to engage the perpetrators in a gun fight and def would suffer innocent bystanders getting killed or injured 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • JojoRice
    JojoRice Kennesaw, GA Posts: 4,553
    As someone who's participated in many active shooter trainings/drills, here's what I've been told.....Shooters are most likely going to target places of least resistance and less obstacles. The more obstacles or security the better.  We have 3 armed officers at my school at all times and they walk the halls/campus regularly.  I see them multiples times a day. Our campus officers have a partnership with our local police department.  No place is ever going to be 100% safe but things can be put into place to reduce a threat or minimalize it.  
    "I got memories, I got shit"
  • josevolution
    josevolution Posts: 31,553
    JojoRice said:
    As someone who's participated in many active shooter trainings/drills, here's what I've been told.....Shooters are most likely going to target places of least resistance and less obstacles. The more obstacles or security the better.  We have 3 armed officers at my school at all times and they walk the halls/campus regularly.  I see them multiples times a day. Our campus officers have a partnership with our local police department.  No place is ever going to be 100% safe but things can be put into place to reduce a threat or minimalize it.  
    I hope that those guards never have to be called into action! Stay safe I commend you for your work
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,590
    edited April 2023
    JojoRice said:
    As someone who's participated in many active shooter trainings/drills, here's what I've been told.....Shooters are most likely going to target places of least resistance and less obstacles. The more obstacles or security the better.  We have 3 armed officers at my school at all times and they walk the halls/campus regularly.  I see them multiples times a day. Our campus officers have a partnership with our local police department.  No place is ever going to be 100% safe but things can be put into place to reduce a threat or minimalize it.  
    There is like 130,000 schools in this country. We'd need 390,000 of these armed officers to have every school as secure as yours. Pay them 40k a year and we're talking about 16 billion dollars a year. 

    Gotta be an easier solution...
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  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,760
    The Juggler said:
    JojoRice said:
    As someone who's participated in many active shooter trainings/drills, here's what I've been told.....Shooters are most likely going to target places of least resistance and less obstacles. The more obstacles or security the better.  We have 3 armed officers at my school at all times and they walk the halls/campus regularly.  I see them multiples times a day. Our campus officers have a partnership with our local police department.  No place is ever going to be 100% safe but things can be put into place to reduce a threat or minimalize it.  
    There is like 130,000 schools in this country. We'd need 390,000 of these armed officers to have every school as secure as yours. Pay them 40k a year and we're talking about 16 billion dollars a year. 

    Gotta be an easier solution...
    & that's just their salaries.

    Then there's the $ for the guns, the training, and the re-training... how often do police & others who get paid to carry weapons have to attend firearm re-training?

    I know it's not one & done. 
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,590
    edited April 2023
    Merkin Baller said:
    The Juggler said:
    JojoRice said:
    As someone who's participated in many active shooter trainings/drills, here's what I've been told.....Shooters are most likely going to target places of least resistance and less obstacles. The more obstacles or security the better.  We have 3 armed officers at my school at all times and they walk the halls/campus regularly.  I see them multiples times a day. Our campus officers have a partnership with our local police department.  No place is ever going to be 100% safe but things can be put into place to reduce a threat or minimalize it.  
    There is like 130,000 schools in this country. We'd need 390,000 of these armed officers to have every school as secure as yours. Pay them 40k a year and we're talking about 16 billion dollars a year. 

    Gotta be an easier solution...
    & that's just their salaries.

    Then there's the $ for the guns, the training, and the re-training... how often do police & others who get paid to carry weapons have to attend firearm re-training?

    I know it's not one & done. 
    And teachers are grossly underpaid and in short supply. And republicans want to gut public education as it is. Where in god's name are the money, people, and resources to do this? It's laughable to think of this as a plausible solution, nationwide, the more you think about it. 


    Post edited by The Juggler on
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  • JojoRice
    JojoRice Kennesaw, GA Posts: 4,553
    Ya, unfortunately there's no easy fix to it. Especially with some of the counties/areas with already limited resources.  
    "I got memories, I got shit"
  • JojoRice
    JojoRice Kennesaw, GA Posts: 4,553
    I also have 2 friends that are survivors of school shootings (one of them Columbine) and to hear their stories and experience is gut wrenching.  I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.  
    "I got memories, I got shit"
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,590
    JojoRice said:
    I also have 2 friends that are survivors of school shootings (one of them Columbine) and to hear their stories and experience is gut wrenching.  I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.  
    At work yesterday I spoke with a client who's son in law was gunned down at a Chuckie Cheese, while holding his son, last year. She just casually brought that up as we were talking about her mortgage. 

    Sad state of affairs this country is in. I hate the fact that we are mostly numb to these stories and have been for a while now .
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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,036
    The Juggler said:
    JojoRice said:
    As someone who's participated in many active shooter trainings/drills, here's what I've been told.....Shooters are most likely going to target places of least resistance and less obstacles. The more obstacles or security the better.  We have 3 armed officers at my school at all times and they walk the halls/campus regularly.  I see them multiples times a day. Our campus officers have a partnership with our local police department.  No place is ever going to be 100% safe but things can be put into place to reduce a threat or minimalize it.  
    There is like 130,000 schools in this country. We'd need 390,000 of these armed officers to have every school as secure as yours. Pay them 40k a year and we're talking about 16 billion dollars a year. 

    Gotta be an easier solution...
    Teach kids in APCs parked at the police station. Pick the kid up in an APC, park, teach, take them home. Plenty of APCs left over from the Iraq war.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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