"WTF was I singing???" Realizing lyrics of songs you've sung for ages
Comments
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I know if I really think about it I'd find some other songs that were disturbing but never really LISTENED to it that way. When you're younger things just roll off you I guess?JH6056 said:
Good search! And then there's some infamous song, I'm blanking on the title but it's a Rolling Stones song (I mean, aside from Brown Sugar, don't get me started on "Brown Sugar/How come you taste so good/Brown Sugar/Just like a Black girl should" and the whole literal slavery lyrics!!!) but another: It's "Stray Cat Blues" with, by the time the Stones toured on "Beggars Banquet" album which it's on, they were singing this:tempo_n_groove said:
So in the Create a 5 song playlist thread I did this...brianlux said:JH6056 said:Have been watching a lot of "Pluto t.v." lately, the decades music channel, with 70s, 80s & 90s videos in particular.
Recently saw The Knack's "My Sharona" video. I've known all the words for as long as I can remember, but something about watching the singer sing the lyrics as I sung them, I suddenly caught lines in the chorus like it was my first time hearing it:
"Ooh my little pretty one, my pretty one.
When you gonna give me some time, Sharona?
Ooh you make my motor run, my motor run.
Gun it comin' off the line Sharona
Never gonna stop, give it up.
Such a dirty mind.
I always get it up
For the touch
Of the younger kind.
My my my i yi woo.
M M M My Sharona"
"I ALWAYS GET IT UP FOR THE TOUCH OF THE YOUNGER KIND"???? I was like "Holy moly what have I been singing since I was a GIRL myself??? (Never mind that their sequel album was "Good Girls Don't, But I Do"...) Honestly that song, Ringo Starr's "You're 16, You're Beautiful, & You're Mine" featuring a young woman in pigtails drinking an ice cream soda and him fully bearded and NOT teenage looking, and also Rod Stewart's "Tonight's the Night": "Don't say a word, my virgin child / Just let your inhibitions run wild / The secret is about to unfold / upstairs before the night's too old" like, wow, older guys with literal GIRLS was such a blatant thing then!
How about you, any songs you sang for years and then suddenly the lyrics hit you differently later in life? (Doesn't have to be crude, just not what you thought)?It's amazing how many songs slip under the radar like that. John Mayall has done that a few times. For example:"She's Too Young"
Sixteen, she is still in schoolI've got to learn to keep it cool
She's too young, but not for me
So with a bit of luck
She will find a way to come to me
Why do people always intervene?
Very soon she'll be seventeen
She's too young to skip town
She was born to be loved
And I can't wait to bury her down
She's beautiful and waits for me
Will our plans ever come to be?
She's too young, so people say
But with the opportunity
She would run to me todayIt's not like we don't know kids "fool around" but Mayall was 36 when he wrote that song and was living in Laurel Canyon outside of L.A. "Umm, John, that actually not legal in the U.S. No, John, not even 17."Mention of "Little girl" in song somewhere... I know there are more, I have always found the term weird for an adult to say and be recorded...
Whiskey Bar- The Doors
Magic Carpet Ride- Steppin Wolf
Little bitty pretty one- Thurston Harris
Little Girl- Syndicate of Sound
I'm on Fire- Bruce SpringsteenQuote
She's only 17 is a song title by Winger I think? Hold on to 18 is by Black n Blue. A line in the Chilli peppers song says "I like but, she little".
There are a bunch of songs out there with questionable lyrics...
Stray Cat BluesSong by The Rolling StonesLyricsI hear the click-clack of your feet on the stairs
I know you're no scare-eyed honey.
There'll be a feast if you just come upstairs
But it's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
I can see that you're THIRTEEN YEARS OLD [Original lyrics 15 but they LOWERED it to 13]
No I don't want your I.D.
And I can see that you're so far from home
But it's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
Oh yeah, don'tcha scratch like that
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
I bet, bet your mama don't know you scream like that
I bet your mother don't know you can spit like that.
You look so weird and you're so far from home
But you don't really miss your mother
Don't look so scared I'm no mad-brained bear
But it's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
Oh, yeah
Woo!
I bet your mama don't know that you scatch like that
I bet she don't know you can bite like that.
You say you got a friend, that she's wilder than you
Why don't you bring her upstairs
If she's so wild then she can join in too
It's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
Oh yeah, don'tcha scratch like that
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
I bet you mama don't know you can bite like that
I'll bet she never saw you scratch my back
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It's all awful, but that line "Don't look so scared / I'm no mad-brained bear" followed by basically "But I'm not going to jail or getting sentenced to hanging for it, so I'm gonna do it anyway", the fact that she (because he did write it about a specific girl say numerous sources) KNEW she was scared just pisses me off no end.
Just found this article about the whole dynamic and how most rockstars of that era were "forgiven" in that "Oh that's just how it was then" attitude:
https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/the-rolling-stones-lyrics-stray-cat-blues-underage-groupies/
For groupies and debauchery Motley Crue and Poison are on the tops of those lists. Poison would record what they did. Motley Crue were known for outright craziness and like you said, it was "forgiven" back then. Nowadays you have stars getting nailed for grooming underage girls and they should get in trouble. That is shady in any form.0 -
I think some of the bands from late 60's and 70's far exceeded Motley and Poison in the debauchery department, just not as widely publicized. Zep certainly is up there. Steven Tyler had the parents of a 14 year old sign over guardianship of her so she could live with him. Gene $immon$ of course had his Polaroid collection...and so on.tempo_n_groove said:
I know if I really think about it I'd find some other songs that were disturbing but never really LISTENED to it that way. When you're younger things just roll off you I guess?JH6056 said:
Good search! And then there's some infamous song, I'm blanking on the title but it's a Rolling Stones song (I mean, aside from Brown Sugar, don't get me started on "Brown Sugar/How come you taste so good/Brown Sugar/Just like a Black girl should" and the whole literal slavery lyrics!!!) but another: It's "Stray Cat Blues" with, by the time the Stones toured on "Beggars Banquet" album which it's on, they were singing this:tempo_n_groove said:
So in the Create a 5 song playlist thread I did this...brianlux said:JH6056 said:Have been watching a lot of "Pluto t.v." lately, the decades music channel, with 70s, 80s & 90s videos in particular.
Recently saw The Knack's "My Sharona" video. I've known all the words for as long as I can remember, but something about watching the singer sing the lyrics as I sung them, I suddenly caught lines in the chorus like it was my first time hearing it:
"Ooh my little pretty one, my pretty one.
When you gonna give me some time, Sharona?
Ooh you make my motor run, my motor run.
Gun it comin' off the line Sharona
Never gonna stop, give it up.
Such a dirty mind.
I always get it up
For the touch
Of the younger kind.
My my my i yi woo.
M M M My Sharona"
"I ALWAYS GET IT UP FOR THE TOUCH OF THE YOUNGER KIND"???? I was like "Holy moly what have I been singing since I was a GIRL myself??? (Never mind that their sequel album was "Good Girls Don't, But I Do"...) Honestly that song, Ringo Starr's "You're 16, You're Beautiful, & You're Mine" featuring a young woman in pigtails drinking an ice cream soda and him fully bearded and NOT teenage looking, and also Rod Stewart's "Tonight's the Night": "Don't say a word, my virgin child / Just let your inhibitions run wild / The secret is about to unfold / upstairs before the night's too old" like, wow, older guys with literal GIRLS was such a blatant thing then!
How about you, any songs you sang for years and then suddenly the lyrics hit you differently later in life? (Doesn't have to be crude, just not what you thought)?It's amazing how many songs slip under the radar like that. John Mayall has done that a few times. For example:"She's Too Young"
Sixteen, she is still in schoolI've got to learn to keep it cool
She's too young, but not for me
So with a bit of luck
She will find a way to come to me
Why do people always intervene?
Very soon she'll be seventeen
She's too young to skip town
She was born to be loved
And I can't wait to bury her down
She's beautiful and waits for me
Will our plans ever come to be?
She's too young, so people say
But with the opportunity
She would run to me todayIt's not like we don't know kids "fool around" but Mayall was 36 when he wrote that song and was living in Laurel Canyon outside of L.A. "Umm, John, that actually not legal in the U.S. No, John, not even 17."Mention of "Little girl" in song somewhere... I know there are more, I have always found the term weird for an adult to say and be recorded...
Whiskey Bar- The Doors
Magic Carpet Ride- Steppin Wolf
Little bitty pretty one- Thurston Harris
Little Girl- Syndicate of Sound
I'm on Fire- Bruce SpringsteenQuote
She's only 17 is a song title by Winger I think? Hold on to 18 is by Black n Blue. A line in the Chilli peppers song says "I like but, she little".
There are a bunch of songs out there with questionable lyrics...
Stray Cat BluesSong by The Rolling StonesLyricsI hear the click-clack of your feet on the stairs
I know you're no scare-eyed honey.
There'll be a feast if you just come upstairs
But it's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
I can see that you're THIRTEEN YEARS OLD [Original lyrics 15 but they LOWERED it to 13]
No I don't want your I.D.
And I can see that you're so far from home
But it's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
Oh yeah, don'tcha scratch like that
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
I bet, bet your mama don't know you scream like that
I bet your mother don't know you can spit like that.
You look so weird and you're so far from home
But you don't really miss your mother
Don't look so scared I'm no mad-brained bear
But it's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
Oh, yeah
Woo!
I bet your mama don't know that you scatch like that
I bet she don't know you can bite like that.
You say you got a friend, that she's wilder than you
Why don't you bring her upstairs
If she's so wild then she can join in too
It's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
Oh yeah, don'tcha scratch like that
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
I bet you mama don't know you can bite like that
I'll bet she never saw you scratch my back
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It's all awful, but that line "Don't look so scared / I'm no mad-brained bear" followed by basically "But I'm not going to jail or getting sentenced to hanging for it, so I'm gonna do it anyway", the fact that she (because he did write it about a specific girl say numerous sources) KNEW she was scared just pisses me off no end.
Just found this article about the whole dynamic and how most rockstars of that era were "forgiven" in that "Oh that's just how it was then" attitude:
https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/the-rolling-stones-lyrics-stray-cat-blues-underage-groupies/
For groupies and debauchery Motley Crue and Poison are on the tops of those lists. Poison would record what they did. Motley Crue were known for outright craziness and like you said, it was "forgiven" back then. Nowadays you have stars getting nailed for grooming underage girls and they should get in trouble. That is shady in any form.This weekend we rock Portland0 -
So the movie Almost Famous wasn't exaggerating when they would pass around groupies like a deck of cards? I never heard that Steven Tyler story before. Interesting.Poncier said:
I think some of the bands from late 60's and 70's far exceeded Motley and Poison in the debauchery department, just not as widely publicized. Zep certainly is up there. Steven Tyler had the parents of a 14 year old sign over guardianship of her so she could live with him. Gene $immon$ of course had his Polaroid collection...and so on.tempo_n_groove said:
I know if I really think about it I'd find some other songs that were disturbing but never really LISTENED to it that way. When you're younger things just roll off you I guess?JH6056 said:
Good search! And then there's some infamous song, I'm blanking on the title but it's a Rolling Stones song (I mean, aside from Brown Sugar, don't get me started on "Brown Sugar/How come you taste so good/Brown Sugar/Just like a Black girl should" and the whole literal slavery lyrics!!!) but another: It's "Stray Cat Blues" with, by the time the Stones toured on "Beggars Banquet" album which it's on, they were singing this:tempo_n_groove said:
So in the Create a 5 song playlist thread I did this...brianlux said:JH6056 said:Have been watching a lot of "Pluto t.v." lately, the decades music channel, with 70s, 80s & 90s videos in particular.
Recently saw The Knack's "My Sharona" video. I've known all the words for as long as I can remember, but something about watching the singer sing the lyrics as I sung them, I suddenly caught lines in the chorus like it was my first time hearing it:
"Ooh my little pretty one, my pretty one.
When you gonna give me some time, Sharona?
Ooh you make my motor run, my motor run.
Gun it comin' off the line Sharona
Never gonna stop, give it up.
Such a dirty mind.
I always get it up
For the touch
Of the younger kind.
My my my i yi woo.
M M M My Sharona"
"I ALWAYS GET IT UP FOR THE TOUCH OF THE YOUNGER KIND"???? I was like "Holy moly what have I been singing since I was a GIRL myself??? (Never mind that their sequel album was "Good Girls Don't, But I Do"...) Honestly that song, Ringo Starr's "You're 16, You're Beautiful, & You're Mine" featuring a young woman in pigtails drinking an ice cream soda and him fully bearded and NOT teenage looking, and also Rod Stewart's "Tonight's the Night": "Don't say a word, my virgin child / Just let your inhibitions run wild / The secret is about to unfold / upstairs before the night's too old" like, wow, older guys with literal GIRLS was such a blatant thing then!
How about you, any songs you sang for years and then suddenly the lyrics hit you differently later in life? (Doesn't have to be crude, just not what you thought)?It's amazing how many songs slip under the radar like that. John Mayall has done that a few times. For example:"She's Too Young"
Sixteen, she is still in schoolI've got to learn to keep it cool
She's too young, but not for me
So with a bit of luck
She will find a way to come to me
Why do people always intervene?
Very soon she'll be seventeen
She's too young to skip town
She was born to be loved
And I can't wait to bury her down
She's beautiful and waits for me
Will our plans ever come to be?
She's too young, so people say
But with the opportunity
She would run to me todayIt's not like we don't know kids "fool around" but Mayall was 36 when he wrote that song and was living in Laurel Canyon outside of L.A. "Umm, John, that actually not legal in the U.S. No, John, not even 17."Mention of "Little girl" in song somewhere... I know there are more, I have always found the term weird for an adult to say and be recorded...
Whiskey Bar- The Doors
Magic Carpet Ride- Steppin Wolf
Little bitty pretty one- Thurston Harris
Little Girl- Syndicate of Sound
I'm on Fire- Bruce SpringsteenQuote
She's only 17 is a song title by Winger I think? Hold on to 18 is by Black n Blue. A line in the Chilli peppers song says "I like but, she little".
There are a bunch of songs out there with questionable lyrics...
Stray Cat BluesSong by The Rolling StonesLyricsI hear the click-clack of your feet on the stairs
I know you're no scare-eyed honey.
There'll be a feast if you just come upstairs
But it's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
I can see that you're THIRTEEN YEARS OLD [Original lyrics 15 but they LOWERED it to 13]
No I don't want your I.D.
And I can see that you're so far from home
But it's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
Oh yeah, don'tcha scratch like that
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
I bet, bet your mama don't know you scream like that
I bet your mother don't know you can spit like that.
You look so weird and you're so far from home
But you don't really miss your mother
Don't look so scared I'm no mad-brained bear
But it's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
Oh, yeah
Woo!
I bet your mama don't know that you scatch like that
I bet she don't know you can bite like that.
You say you got a friend, that she's wilder than you
Why don't you bring her upstairs
If she's so wild then she can join in too
It's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
Oh yeah, don'tcha scratch like that
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
I bet you mama don't know you can bite like that
I'll bet she never saw you scratch my back
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It's all awful, but that line "Don't look so scared / I'm no mad-brained bear" followed by basically "But I'm not going to jail or getting sentenced to hanging for it, so I'm gonna do it anyway", the fact that she (because he did write it about a specific girl say numerous sources) KNEW she was scared just pisses me off no end.
Just found this article about the whole dynamic and how most rockstars of that era were "forgiven" in that "Oh that's just how it was then" attitude:
https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/the-rolling-stones-lyrics-stray-cat-blues-underage-groupies/
For groupies and debauchery Motley Crue and Poison are on the tops of those lists. Poison would record what they did. Motley Crue were known for outright craziness and like you said, it was "forgiven" back then. Nowadays you have stars getting nailed for grooming underage girls and they should get in trouble. That is shady in any form.
W Crue and Poison I was keeping it civil. Those dudes were pretty bad.
Anthony Keidus was no saint either. His book tells a lot about him.0 -
Whoa, I don't think I heard the Steven Tyler "having parents sign over guardianship so a 14 yr old could live with him" story either but I fully believe it. And it's like WTF are the parents thinking??? That's how crazy and messed up fame can get, when parents think that's the thing to do because, hey, it's Aerosmith...Poncier said:
I think some of the bands from late 60's and 70's far exceeded Motley and Poison in the debauchery department, just not as widely publicized. Zep certainly is up there. Steven Tyler had the parents of a 14 year old sign over guardianship of her so she could live with him. Gene $immon$ of course had his Polaroid collection...and so on.tempo_n_groove said:
I know if I really think about it I'd find some other songs that were disturbing but never really LISTENED to it that way. When you're younger things just roll off you I guess?JH6056 said:
Good search! And then there's some infamous song, I'm blanking on the title but it's a Rolling Stones song (I mean, aside from Brown Sugar, don't get me started on "Brown Sugar/How come you taste so good/Brown Sugar/Just like a Black girl should" and the whole literal slavery lyrics!!!) but another: It's "Stray Cat Blues" with, by the time the Stones toured on "Beggars Banquet" album which it's on, they were singing this:tempo_n_groove said:
So in the Create a 5 song playlist thread I did this...brianlux said:JH6056 said:Have been watching a lot of "Pluto t.v." lately, the decades music channel, with 70s, 80s & 90s videos in particular.
Recently saw The Knack's "My Sharona" video. I've known all the words for as long as I can remember, but something about watching the singer sing the lyrics as I sung them, I suddenly caught lines in the chorus like it was my first time hearing it:
"Ooh my little pretty one, my pretty one.
When you gonna give me some time, Sharona?
Ooh you make my motor run, my motor run.
Gun it comin' off the line Sharona
Never gonna stop, give it up.
Such a dirty mind.
I always get it up
For the touch
Of the younger kind.
My my my i yi woo.
M M M My Sharona"
"I ALWAYS GET IT UP FOR THE TOUCH OF THE YOUNGER KIND"???? I was like "Holy moly what have I been singing since I was a GIRL myself??? (Never mind that their sequel album was "Good Girls Don't, But I Do"...) Honestly that song, Ringo Starr's "You're 16, You're Beautiful, & You're Mine" featuring a young woman in pigtails drinking an ice cream soda and him fully bearded and NOT teenage looking, and also Rod Stewart's "Tonight's the Night": "Don't say a word, my virgin child / Just let your inhibitions run wild / The secret is about to unfold / upstairs before the night's too old" like, wow, older guys with literal GIRLS was such a blatant thing then!
How about you, any songs you sang for years and then suddenly the lyrics hit you differently later in life? (Doesn't have to be crude, just not what you thought)?It's amazing how many songs slip under the radar like that. John Mayall has done that a few times. For example:"She's Too Young"
Sixteen, she is still in schoolI've got to learn to keep it cool
She's too young, but not for me
So with a bit of luck
She will find a way to come to me
Why do people always intervene?
Very soon she'll be seventeen
She's too young to skip town
She was born to be loved
And I can't wait to bury her down
She's beautiful and waits for me
Will our plans ever come to be?
She's too young, so people say
But with the opportunity
She would run to me todayIt's not like we don't know kids "fool around" but Mayall was 36 when he wrote that song and was living in Laurel Canyon outside of L.A. "Umm, John, that actually not legal in the U.S. No, John, not even 17."Mention of "Little girl" in song somewhere... I know there are more, I have always found the term weird for an adult to say and be recorded...
Whiskey Bar- The Doors
Magic Carpet Ride- Steppin Wolf
Little bitty pretty one- Thurston Harris
Little Girl- Syndicate of Sound
I'm on Fire- Bruce SpringsteenQuote
She's only 17 is a song title by Winger I think? Hold on to 18 is by Black n Blue. A line in the Chilli peppers song says "I like but, she little".
There are a bunch of songs out there with questionable lyrics...
Stray Cat BluesSong by The Rolling StonesLyricsI hear the click-clack of your feet on the stairs
I know you're no scare-eyed honey.
There'll be a feast if you just come upstairs
But it's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
I can see that you're THIRTEEN YEARS OLD [Original lyrics 15 but they LOWERED it to 13]
No I don't want your I.D.
And I can see that you're so far from home
But it's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
Oh yeah, don'tcha scratch like that
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
I bet, bet your mama don't know you scream like that
I bet your mother don't know you can spit like that.
You look so weird and you're so far from home
But you don't really miss your mother
Don't look so scared I'm no mad-brained bear
But it's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
Oh, yeah
Woo!
I bet your mama don't know that you scatch like that
I bet she don't know you can bite like that.
You say you got a friend, that she's wilder than you
Why don't you bring her upstairs
If she's so wild then she can join in too
It's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
Oh yeah, don'tcha scratch like that
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
I bet you mama don't know you can bite like that
I'll bet she never saw you scratch my back
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It's all awful, but that line "Don't look so scared / I'm no mad-brained bear" followed by basically "But I'm not going to jail or getting sentenced to hanging for it, so I'm gonna do it anyway", the fact that she (because he did write it about a specific girl say numerous sources) KNEW she was scared just pisses me off no end.
Just found this article about the whole dynamic and how most rockstars of that era were "forgiven" in that "Oh that's just how it was then" attitude:
https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/the-rolling-stones-lyrics-stray-cat-blues-underage-groupies/
For groupies and debauchery Motley Crue and Poison are on the tops of those lists. Poison would record what they did. Motley Crue were known for outright craziness and like you said, it was "forgiven" back then. Nowadays you have stars getting nailed for grooming underage girls and they should get in trouble. That is shady in any form.
I was never a groupie and my parents never threatened legal action against anyone, but I was incredibly lucky as a young girl to fall in with a band I still respect to this day (not together anymore but they were a force to be reckoned with) and so I did develop a social world that had a LOT of musicians in it. I remember being at another band's show (an 80s band that's still touring, but more new wave than rock or metal) and beign there before a show when the parents of the singer's 16 yr old girlfriend showed up with state troopers to retrieve her and the tour manager had to get the band's lawyer on the phone to keep the singer from being arrested... Yes, I witnessed part of that interaction with my own young eyes. I saw many things that were "Almost Famous"-story-worthy. Lucky for me my friends looked out for me and I didn't take any shit.
I will say this about Motley Crue and I've told this story here before I think, but i was at Coachella maybe 2005ish, and I was about to walk across the main lawn from one main stage to another when a guy speeds by me on a motorized skateboard and almost knocks me over. Me being the New Yorker I am, I go into full "cranky old man on his porch" mode and yell after him "WTF! You can't ride that here, you're gonna knock someone over or run over a kid!" And the guy who was already a good distance ahead stopped, got off his skateboard, picked it up, and walked back to me and said "I'm sorry, you're right. I won't ride in the crowd anymore. Sorry!" and he walked away. And I was stunned but called after a weaker "That's right, don't let it happen again!" and then turned to the person next to me and said "Holy shit, Tommy Lee just apologized to me after I yelled at him!" because it was indeed Tommy Lee. So I know they got up to a lot of bad stuff, and probably hurt a lot of women, but I'd be lying if I didnt' admit to a little soft spot in my heart for Lee because he was very sincere in his apology and I never saw him ride it again that Coachella
0 -
On Anthony Kiedis, I didn't read his book but I was looking at the setlists from early RHCP shows I saw and couldn't believe there was a song called something like "Sexy Mexican Maid" or something? Geesh...0
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I think every single storyline in Almost Famous happened more times than anyone knows. I always said if I ever meet Cameron Crowe, I want to ask about the whole "Spend lots of time with a band, write an honest story, band feels totally betrayed because you name drugs and side girlfriends/groupies" because I worked (as part of the production staff, to be clear!) at a show in the late 80s/early 90s and when the band arrived they were in FOUL moods. After the show one band member got annoyed with an after show guest and pushed him backwards and he almost fell down some stairs. I was like "What the HELL are these guys always like this?" and their tour manager told me "They are really upset. We let a journalist into our inner circle and took him on tour with us and everything... and we just got an advance copy of the story he wrote, he tells a lot of details we never thought he'd actually write..." and the mag was Rolling Stone.tempo_n_groove said:
So the movie Almost Famous wasn't exaggerating when they would pass around groupies like a deck of cards? I never heard that Steven Tyler story before. Interesting.Poncier said:
I think some of the bands from late 60's and 70's far exceeded Motley and Poison in the debauchery department, just not as widely publicized. Zep certainly is up there. Steven Tyler had the parents of a 14 year old sign over guardianship of her so she could live with him. Gene $immon$ of course had his Polaroid collection...and so on.tempo_n_groove said:
I know if I really think about it I'd find some other songs that were disturbing but never really LISTENED to it that way. When you're younger things just roll off you I guess?JH6056 said:
Good search! And then there's some infamous song, I'm blanking on the title but it's a Rolling Stones song (I mean, aside from Brown Sugar, don't get me started on "Brown Sugar/How come you taste so good/Brown Sugar/Just like a Black girl should" and the whole literal slavery lyrics!!!) but another: It's "Stray Cat Blues" with, by the time the Stones toured on "Beggars Banquet" album which it's on, they were singing this:tempo_n_groove said:
So in the Create a 5 song playlist thread I did this...brianlux said:JH6056 said:Have been watching a lot of "Pluto t.v." lately, the decades music channel, with 70s, 80s & 90s videos in particular.
Recently saw The Knack's "My Sharona" video. I've known all the words for as long as I can remember, but something about watching the singer sing the lyrics as I sung them, I suddenly caught lines in the chorus like it was my first time hearing it:
"Ooh my little pretty one, my pretty one.
When you gonna give me some time, Sharona?
Ooh you make my motor run, my motor run.
Gun it comin' off the line Sharona
Never gonna stop, give it up.
Such a dirty mind.
I always get it up
For the touch
Of the younger kind.
My my my i yi woo.
M M M My Sharona"
"I ALWAYS GET IT UP FOR THE TOUCH OF THE YOUNGER KIND"???? I was like "Holy moly what have I been singing since I was a GIRL myself??? (Never mind that their sequel album was "Good Girls Don't, But I Do"...) Honestly that song, Ringo Starr's "You're 16, You're Beautiful, & You're Mine" featuring a young woman in pigtails drinking an ice cream soda and him fully bearded and NOT teenage looking, and also Rod Stewart's "Tonight's the Night": "Don't say a word, my virgin child / Just let your inhibitions run wild / The secret is about to unfold / upstairs before the night's too old" like, wow, older guys with literal GIRLS was such a blatant thing then!
How about you, any songs you sang for years and then suddenly the lyrics hit you differently later in life? (Doesn't have to be crude, just not what you thought)?It's amazing how many songs slip under the radar like that. John Mayall has done that a few times. For example:"She's Too Young"
Sixteen, she is still in schoolI've got to learn to keep it cool
She's too young, but not for me
So with a bit of luck
She will find a way to come to me
Why do people always intervene?
Very soon she'll be seventeen
She's too young to skip town
She was born to be loved
And I can't wait to bury her down
She's beautiful and waits for me
Will our plans ever come to be?
She's too young, so people say
But with the opportunity
She would run to me todayIt's not like we don't know kids "fool around" but Mayall was 36 when he wrote that song and was living in Laurel Canyon outside of L.A. "Umm, John, that actually not legal in the U.S. No, John, not even 17."Mention of "Little girl" in song somewhere... I know there are more, I have always found the term weird for an adult to say and be recorded...
Whiskey Bar- The Doors
Magic Carpet Ride- Steppin Wolf
Little bitty pretty one- Thurston Harris
Little Girl- Syndicate of Sound
I'm on Fire- Bruce SpringsteenQuote
She's only 17 is a song title by Winger I think? Hold on to 18 is by Black n Blue. A line in the Chilli peppers song says "I like but, she little".
There are a bunch of songs out there with questionable lyrics...
Stray Cat BluesSong by The Rolling StonesLyricsI hear the click-clack of your feet on the stairs
I know you're no scare-eyed honey.
There'll be a feast if you just come upstairs
But it's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
I can see that you're THIRTEEN YEARS OLD [Original lyrics 15 but they LOWERED it to 13]
No I don't want your I.D.
And I can see that you're so far from home
But it's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
Oh yeah, don'tcha scratch like that
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
I bet, bet your mama don't know you scream like that
I bet your mother don't know you can spit like that.
You look so weird and you're so far from home
But you don't really miss your mother
Don't look so scared I'm no mad-brained bear
But it's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
Oh, yeah
Woo!
I bet your mama don't know that you scatch like that
I bet she don't know you can bite like that.
You say you got a friend, that she's wilder than you
Why don't you bring her upstairs
If she's so wild then she can join in too
It's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
Oh yeah, don'tcha scratch like that
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
I bet you mama don't know you can bite like that
I'll bet she never saw you scratch my back
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It's all awful, but that line "Don't look so scared / I'm no mad-brained bear" followed by basically "But I'm not going to jail or getting sentenced to hanging for it, so I'm gonna do it anyway", the fact that she (because he did write it about a specific girl say numerous sources) KNEW she was scared just pisses me off no end.
Just found this article about the whole dynamic and how most rockstars of that era were "forgiven" in that "Oh that's just how it was then" attitude:
https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/the-rolling-stones-lyrics-stray-cat-blues-underage-groupies/
For groupies and debauchery Motley Crue and Poison are on the tops of those lists. Poison would record what they did. Motley Crue were known for outright craziness and like you said, it was "forgiven" back then. Nowadays you have stars getting nailed for grooming underage girls and they should get in trouble. That is shady in any form.
W Crue and Poison I was keeping it civil. Those dudes were pretty bad.
Anthony Keidus was no saint either. His book tells a lot about him.
But even that exact scenario probably happened multiple times, to multiple bands and journalists, so what I saw may not have at all been a band that happened to Crowe with.
I wanna know if any band ever got their band t-shirts printed only to find the singer in the foreground the only clear image, and the band all in the back blurry & in the shadows! That cracked me up! Wait, was it the singer or the guitar player in Stillwater who was foreground?0 -
Doing a Google search and there's conflicting reports of whether the girl was 14 or 16, but the story is Tyler became her legal guardian, impregnated her and she had an abortion, then he basically sent her back to her mother. Her name is Julia Holcomb.
And I've read Kiedis' book, he certainly is no saint and I've read The Dirt and know a lot of the Crue stuff, but to piggyback on the Tommy lee skateboard story, I've met Nikki Sixx and he couldn't have been a nicer guy. Plus, if you follow his socials, he's very supportive of folks regarding getting sober whenever they reach out to him.
But bottom line is lots of these rock stars who get idolized have done lots of bad stuff.This weekend we rock Portland0 -
That's cool about Nikki Sixx. I know someone who knew Crue well "back in the day" and she has creepy story after creepy story, but hopefully maybe they've realized some stuff was seriously bad news, and yeah if they're now doing good stuff and supportive of better choices, we're all human so that is to be respected. A few of them (rockstars, not Crue specifically) seem to have never learned though and justify their actions to this day. I was so glad the Stones took "Brown Sugar" out of their setlists, but Keith Richards tried to seriously call it a "historical, documentary-like" song and I wanted to hunt him down and hit him over the head with Tommy Lee's motorized skateboard.Poncier said:Doing a Google search and there's conflicting reports of whether the girl was 14 or 16, but the story is Tyler became her legal guardian, impregnated her and she had an abortion, then he basically sent her back to her mother. Her name is Julia Holcomb.
And I've read Kiedis' book, he certainly is no saint and I've read The Dirt and know a lot of the Crue stuff, but to piggyback on the Tommy lee skateboard story, I've met Nikki Sixx and he couldn't have been a nicer guy. Plus, if you follow his socials, he's very supportive of folks regarding getting sober whenever they reach out to him.
But bottom line is lots of these rock stars who get idolized have done lots of bad stuff.
But there's a reason they say "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely". Because it's true in so many cases, and is a big reason we're all still fans of this band PJ because no one is perfect, no one is a saint whether famous or not, but it is SO MUCH HARDER to keep your values and your wits and your actions in line when the world worships you and everyone wants part of you. It's so hard to keep your sense of self in check. PJ is one of the few bands that got to that insane level of fame and worked and worked to keep their sanity in check. And to try to be good to people often taken for granted as a band rises. And to keep trying to make relevant music.
Also, as many big rockstars are there are that've done bad things, wow are there some lesser rockstars who've done even WORSE! Something about not quite getting to the level of fame you feel you deserve can make some people into serious sadists. Marilyn Manson was super famous but is also a good example of how bad it can get in how you treat people in your private life. And there are other musicians in jail for pedophilia and other sex crimes so... at least once in awhile (sadlly usually only in extreme cases) there is accountability.Post edited by JH6056 on0 -
Guitarist was up front.JH6056 said:
I think every single storyline in Almost Famous happened more times than anyone knows. I always said if I ever meet Cameron Crowe, I want to ask about the whole "Spend lots of time with a band, write an honest story, band feels totally betrayed because you name drugs and side girlfriends/groupies" because I worked (as part of the production staff, to be clear!) at a show in the late 80s/early 90s and when the band arrived they were in FOUL moods. After the show one band member got annoyed with an after show guest and pushed him backwards and he almost fell down some stairs. I was like "What the HELL are these guys always like this?" and their tour manager told me "They are really upset. We let a journalist into our inner circle and took him on tour with us and everything... and we just got an advance copy of the story he wrote, he tells a lot of details we never thought he'd actually write..." and the mag was Rolling Stone.tempo_n_groove said:
So the movie Almost Famous wasn't exaggerating when they would pass around groupies like a deck of cards? I never heard that Steven Tyler story before. Interesting.Poncier said:
I think some of the bands from late 60's and 70's far exceeded Motley and Poison in the debauchery department, just not as widely publicized. Zep certainly is up there. Steven Tyler had the parents of a 14 year old sign over guardianship of her so she could live with him. Gene $immon$ of course had his Polaroid collection...and so on.tempo_n_groove said:
I know if I really think about it I'd find some other songs that were disturbing but never really LISTENED to it that way. When you're younger things just roll off you I guess?JH6056 said:
Good search! And then there's some infamous song, I'm blanking on the title but it's a Rolling Stones song (I mean, aside from Brown Sugar, don't get me started on "Brown Sugar/How come you taste so good/Brown Sugar/Just like a Black girl should" and the whole literal slavery lyrics!!!) but another: It's "Stray Cat Blues" with, by the time the Stones toured on "Beggars Banquet" album which it's on, they were singing this:tempo_n_groove said:
So in the Create a 5 song playlist thread I did this...brianlux said:JH6056 said:Have been watching a lot of "Pluto t.v." lately, the decades music channel, with 70s, 80s & 90s videos in particular.
Recently saw The Knack's "My Sharona" video. I've known all the words for as long as I can remember, but something about watching the singer sing the lyrics as I sung them, I suddenly caught lines in the chorus like it was my first time hearing it:
"Ooh my little pretty one, my pretty one.
When you gonna give me some time, Sharona?
Ooh you make my motor run, my motor run.
Gun it comin' off the line Sharona
Never gonna stop, give it up.
Such a dirty mind.
I always get it up
For the touch
Of the younger kind.
My my my i yi woo.
M M M My Sharona"
"I ALWAYS GET IT UP FOR THE TOUCH OF THE YOUNGER KIND"???? I was like "Holy moly what have I been singing since I was a GIRL myself??? (Never mind that their sequel album was "Good Girls Don't, But I Do"...) Honestly that song, Ringo Starr's "You're 16, You're Beautiful, & You're Mine" featuring a young woman in pigtails drinking an ice cream soda and him fully bearded and NOT teenage looking, and also Rod Stewart's "Tonight's the Night": "Don't say a word, my virgin child / Just let your inhibitions run wild / The secret is about to unfold / upstairs before the night's too old" like, wow, older guys with literal GIRLS was such a blatant thing then!
How about you, any songs you sang for years and then suddenly the lyrics hit you differently later in life? (Doesn't have to be crude, just not what you thought)?It's amazing how many songs slip under the radar like that. John Mayall has done that a few times. For example:"She's Too Young"
Sixteen, she is still in schoolI've got to learn to keep it cool
She's too young, but not for me
So with a bit of luck
She will find a way to come to me
Why do people always intervene?
Very soon she'll be seventeen
She's too young to skip town
She was born to be loved
And I can't wait to bury her down
She's beautiful and waits for me
Will our plans ever come to be?
She's too young, so people say
But with the opportunity
She would run to me todayIt's not like we don't know kids "fool around" but Mayall was 36 when he wrote that song and was living in Laurel Canyon outside of L.A. "Umm, John, that actually not legal in the U.S. No, John, not even 17."Mention of "Little girl" in song somewhere... I know there are more, I have always found the term weird for an adult to say and be recorded...
Whiskey Bar- The Doors
Magic Carpet Ride- Steppin Wolf
Little bitty pretty one- Thurston Harris
Little Girl- Syndicate of Sound
I'm on Fire- Bruce SpringsteenQuote
She's only 17 is a song title by Winger I think? Hold on to 18 is by Black n Blue. A line in the Chilli peppers song says "I like but, she little".
There are a bunch of songs out there with questionable lyrics...
Stray Cat BluesSong by The Rolling StonesLyricsI hear the click-clack of your feet on the stairs
I know you're no scare-eyed honey.
There'll be a feast if you just come upstairs
But it's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
I can see that you're THIRTEEN YEARS OLD [Original lyrics 15 but they LOWERED it to 13]
No I don't want your I.D.
And I can see that you're so far from home
But it's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
Oh yeah, don'tcha scratch like that
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
I bet, bet your mama don't know you scream like that
I bet your mother don't know you can spit like that.
You look so weird and you're so far from home
But you don't really miss your mother
Don't look so scared I'm no mad-brained bear
But it's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
Oh, yeah
Woo!
I bet your mama don't know that you scatch like that
I bet she don't know you can bite like that.
You say you got a friend, that she's wilder than you
Why don't you bring her upstairs
If she's so wild then she can join in too
It's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
Oh yeah, don'tcha scratch like that
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
I bet you mama don't know you can bite like that
I'll bet she never saw you scratch my back
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It's all awful, but that line "Don't look so scared / I'm no mad-brained bear" followed by basically "But I'm not going to jail or getting sentenced to hanging for it, so I'm gonna do it anyway", the fact that she (because he did write it about a specific girl say numerous sources) KNEW she was scared just pisses me off no end.
Just found this article about the whole dynamic and how most rockstars of that era were "forgiven" in that "Oh that's just how it was then" attitude:
https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/the-rolling-stones-lyrics-stray-cat-blues-underage-groupies/
For groupies and debauchery Motley Crue and Poison are on the tops of those lists. Poison would record what they did. Motley Crue were known for outright craziness and like you said, it was "forgiven" back then. Nowadays you have stars getting nailed for grooming underage girls and they should get in trouble. That is shady in any form.
W Crue and Poison I was keeping it civil. Those dudes were pretty bad.
Anthony Keidus was no saint either. His book tells a lot about him.
But even that exact scenario probably happened multiple times, to multiple bands and journalists, so what I saw may not have at all been a band that happened to Crowe with.
I wanna know if any band ever got their band t-shirts printed only to find the singer in the foreground the only clear image, and the band all in the back blurry & in the shadows! That cracked me up! Wait, was it the singer or the guitar player in Stillwater who was foreground?
Didn't something like that happen w the Doors and an album cover? It went from The Doors to being Jim Morrison and The Doors or some shit and he was the main photo and the band.
MC story again. Those guys were usually drunk or high so when they were interviewed they gave no "F's". It is apparent when reading some of their earlier interviews.
Also, you have to start name dropping, you have all these crazy stories and no names to go with it. I am soooo curious on who did what.0 -
Gigi Allen...JH6056 said:
That's cool about Nikki Sixx. I know someone who knew Crue well "back in the day" and she has creepy story after creepy story, but hopefully maybe they've realized some stuff was seriously bad news, and yeah if they're now doing good stuff and supportive of better choices, we're all human so that is to be respected. A few of them (rockstars, not Crue specifically) seem to have never learned though and justify their actions to this day. I was so glad the Stones took "Brown Sugar" out of their setlists, but Keith Richards tried to seriously call it a "historical, documentary-like" song and I wanted to hunt him down and hit him over the head with Tommy Lee's motorized skateboard.Poncier said:Doing a Google search and there's conflicting reports of whether the girl was 14 or 16, but the story is Tyler became her legal guardian, impregnated her and she had an abortion, then he basically sent her back to her mother. Her name is Julia Holcomb.
And I've read Kiedis' book, he certainly is no saint and I've read The Dirt and know a lot of the Crue stuff, but to piggyback on the Tommy lee skateboard story, I've met Nikki Sixx and he couldn't have been a nicer guy. Plus, if you follow his socials, he's very supportive of folks regarding getting sober whenever they reach out to him.
But bottom line is lots of these rock stars who get idolized have done lots of bad stuff.
But there's a reason they say "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely". Because it's true in so many cases, and is a big reason we're all still fans of this band PJ because no one is perfect, no one is a saint whether famous or not, but it is SO MUCH HARDER to keep your values and your wits and your actions in line when the world worships you and everyone wants part of you. It's so hard to keep your sense of self in check. PJ is one of the few bands that got to that insane level of fame and worked and worked to keep their sanity in check. And to try to be good to people often taken for granted as a band rises. And to keep trying to make relevant music.
Also, as many big rockstars are there are that've done bad things, wow are there some lesser rockstars who've done even WORSE! Something about not quite getting to the level of fame you feel you deserve can make some people into serious sadists. Marilyn Manson was super famous but is also a good example of how bad it can get in how you treat people in your private life. And there are other musicians in jail for pedophilia and other sex crimes so... at least once in awhile (sadlly usually only in extreme cases) there is accountability.0 -
I think you're right, I do remember a Doors album cover with Morrison in the front and the rest of the band in the background, though not in total shadow and blurry. Too funny, although I'm sure the rest of the Doors were not amused...tempo_n_groove said:
Guitarist was up front.JH6056 said:
I think every single storyline in Almost Famous happened more times than anyone knows. I always said if I ever meet Cameron Crowe, I want to ask about the whole "Spend lots of time with a band, write an honest story, band feels totally betrayed because you name drugs and side girlfriends/groupies" because I worked (as part of the production staff, to be clear!) at a show in the late 80s/early 90s and when the band arrived they were in FOUL moods. After the show one band member got annoyed with an after show guest and pushed him backwards and he almost fell down some stairs. I was like "What the HELL are these guys always like this?" and their tour manager told me "They are really upset. We let a journalist into our inner circle and took him on tour with us and everything... and we just got an advance copy of the story he wrote, he tells a lot of details we never thought he'd actually write..." and the mag was Rolling Stone.tempo_n_groove said:
So the movie Almost Famous wasn't exaggerating when they would pass around groupies like a deck of cards? I never heard that Steven Tyler story before. Interesting.Poncier said:
I think some of the bands from late 60's and 70's far exceeded Motley and Poison in the debauchery department, just not as widely publicized. Zep certainly is up there. Steven Tyler had the parents of a 14 year old sign over guardianship of her so she could live with him. Gene $immon$ of course had his Polaroid collection...and so on.tempo_n_groove said:
I know if I really think about it I'd find some other songs that were disturbing but never really LISTENED to it that way. When you're younger things just roll off you I guess?JH6056 said:
Good search! And then there's some infamous song, I'm blanking on the title but it's a Rolling Stones song (I mean, aside from Brown Sugar, don't get me started on "Brown Sugar/How come you taste so good/Brown Sugar/Just like a Black girl should" and the whole literal slavery lyrics!!!) but another: It's "Stray Cat Blues" with, by the time the Stones toured on "Beggars Banquet" album which it's on, they were singing this:tempo_n_groove said:
So in the Create a 5 song playlist thread I did this...brianlux said:JH6056 said:Have been watching a lot of "Pluto t.v." lately, the decades music channel, with 70s, 80s & 90s videos in particular.
Recently saw The Knack's "My Sharona" video. I've known all the words for as long as I can remember, but something about watching the singer sing the lyrics as I sung them, I suddenly caught lines in the chorus like it was my first time hearing it:
"Ooh my little pretty one, my pretty one.
When you gonna give me some time, Sharona?
Ooh you make my motor run, my motor run.
Gun it comin' off the line Sharona
Never gonna stop, give it up.
Such a dirty mind.
I always get it up
For the touch
Of the younger kind.
My my my i yi woo.
M M M My Sharona"
"I ALWAYS GET IT UP FOR THE TOUCH OF THE YOUNGER KIND"???? I was like "Holy moly what have I been singing since I was a GIRL myself??? (Never mind that their sequel album was "Good Girls Don't, But I Do"...) Honestly that song, Ringo Starr's "You're 16, You're Beautiful, & You're Mine" featuring a young woman in pigtails drinking an ice cream soda and him fully bearded and NOT teenage looking, and also Rod Stewart's "Tonight's the Night": "Don't say a word, my virgin child / Just let your inhibitions run wild / The secret is about to unfold / upstairs before the night's too old" like, wow, older guys with literal GIRLS was such a blatant thing then!
How about you, any songs you sang for years and then suddenly the lyrics hit you differently later in life? (Doesn't have to be crude, just not what you thought)?It's amazing how many songs slip under the radar like that. John Mayall has done that a few times. For example:"She's Too Young"
Sixteen, she is still in schoolI've got to learn to keep it cool
She's too young, but not for me
So with a bit of luck
She will find a way to come to me
Why do people always intervene?
Very soon she'll be seventeen
She's too young to skip town
She was born to be loved
And I can't wait to bury her down
She's beautiful and waits for me
Will our plans ever come to be?
She's too young, so people say
But with the opportunity
She would run to me todayIt's not like we don't know kids "fool around" but Mayall was 36 when he wrote that song and was living in Laurel Canyon outside of L.A. "Umm, John, that actually not legal in the U.S. No, John, not even 17."Mention of "Little girl" in song somewhere... I know there are more, I have always found the term weird for an adult to say and be recorded...
Whiskey Bar- The Doors
Magic Carpet Ride- Steppin Wolf
Little bitty pretty one- Thurston Harris
Little Girl- Syndicate of Sound
I'm on Fire- Bruce SpringsteenQuote
She's only 17 is a song title by Winger I think? Hold on to 18 is by Black n Blue. A line in the Chilli peppers song says "I like but, she little".
There are a bunch of songs out there with questionable lyrics...
Stray Cat BluesSong by The Rolling StonesLyricsI hear the click-clack of your feet on the stairs
I know you're no scare-eyed honey.
There'll be a feast if you just come upstairs
But it's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
I can see that you're THIRTEEN YEARS OLD [Original lyrics 15 but they LOWERED it to 13]
No I don't want your I.D.
And I can see that you're so far from home
But it's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
Oh yeah, don'tcha scratch like that
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
I bet, bet your mama don't know you scream like that
I bet your mother don't know you can spit like that.
You look so weird and you're so far from home
But you don't really miss your mother
Don't look so scared I'm no mad-brained bear
But it's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
Oh, yeah
Woo!
I bet your mama don't know that you scatch like that
I bet she don't know you can bite like that.
You say you got a friend, that she's wilder than you
Why don't you bring her upstairs
If she's so wild then she can join in too
It's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
Oh yeah, don'tcha scratch like that
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
I bet you mama don't know you can bite like that
I'll bet she never saw you scratch my back
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It's all awful, but that line "Don't look so scared / I'm no mad-brained bear" followed by basically "But I'm not going to jail or getting sentenced to hanging for it, so I'm gonna do it anyway", the fact that she (because he did write it about a specific girl say numerous sources) KNEW she was scared just pisses me off no end.
Just found this article about the whole dynamic and how most rockstars of that era were "forgiven" in that "Oh that's just how it was then" attitude:
https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/the-rolling-stones-lyrics-stray-cat-blues-underage-groupies/
For groupies and debauchery Motley Crue and Poison are on the tops of those lists. Poison would record what they did. Motley Crue were known for outright craziness and like you said, it was "forgiven" back then. Nowadays you have stars getting nailed for grooming underage girls and they should get in trouble. That is shady in any form.
W Crue and Poison I was keeping it civil. Those dudes were pretty bad.
Anthony Keidus was no saint either. His book tells a lot about him.
But even that exact scenario probably happened multiple times, to multiple bands and journalists, so what I saw may not have at all been a band that happened to Crowe with.
I wanna know if any band ever got their band t-shirts printed only to find the singer in the foreground the only clear image, and the band all in the back blurry & in the shadows! That cracked me up! Wait, was it the singer or the guitar player in Stillwater who was foreground?
Didn't something like that happen w the Doors and an album cover? It went from The Doors to being Jim Morrison and The Doors or some shit and he was the main photo and the band.
MC story again. Those guys were usually drunk or high so when they were interviewed they gave no "F's". It is apparent when reading some of their earlier interviews.
Also, you have to start name dropping, you have all these crazy stories and no names to go with it. I am soooo curious on who did what.
On the namedropping, you're right, and I'm sorry, it is probably annoying to reference these and not name names. My rule is I only name names when what happened was really public or it's well known, so I apologize for those but when I know or was there because someone trusted me or I know it's really personal, I don't. Those examples were just so relevant to our conversation, but I wont do that again. Sorry, I get annoyed too when people do that!
That said, many times during lockdown I swore I'd do what people have told me to do for years and at least write up a few of my crazy experiences. My "Most Rock N Roll 24 Hours" ever experience is the best single story, and I'll name names in that one because it was INXS, I was young & more naive about a few things than I realized, but it all turned out great (nothing happened to me at least) and was such an adventure of a 24 hr period! It was a night that eventually included me, after the show, at the after party at a fancy upper west side restaurant, sitting at a table with 3 members of INXS (including Michael Hutchence), & also actress Kelly McGillis (Top Gun & other films), and Andy frickin' Warhol! At one point I felt a bump on the top of my head, it was a photographer's camera that bumped me, he apologized as he shot some pics, and the next Rolling Stone that came out I realized he was one of the Random Notes Photogs from that era because the pic of Hutchence, McGillis & Warhol that was published in the mag was taken from right over my head at the table. There's so much more to the story, and even though **I** did NOT do most of "the things", that night checked off so many "rock n roll cliches" that happened and I was present for or observed or experienced.
So that is one tale I still need to write up and I'll name names, because no one that would be named would care, they publicly tell their own far more crazy stories about their days then than anything I have to say.Post edited by JH6056 on0 -
Yeah GG Allin too. It's frightening how many examples there are, both of those actually arrested, and way more who should have been...tempo_n_groove said:
Gigi Allen...JH6056 said:
That's cool about Nikki Sixx. I know someone who knew Crue well "back in the day" and she has creepy story after creepy story, but hopefully maybe they've realized some stuff was seriously bad news, and yeah if they're now doing good stuff and supportive of better choices, we're all human so that is to be respected. A few of them (rockstars, not Crue specifically) seem to have never learned though and justify their actions to this day. I was so glad the Stones took "Brown Sugar" out of their setlists, but Keith Richards tried to seriously call it a "historical, documentary-like" song and I wanted to hunt him down and hit him over the head with Tommy Lee's motorized skateboard.Poncier said:Doing a Google search and there's conflicting reports of whether the girl was 14 or 16, but the story is Tyler became her legal guardian, impregnated her and she had an abortion, then he basically sent her back to her mother. Her name is Julia Holcomb.
And I've read Kiedis' book, he certainly is no saint and I've read The Dirt and know a lot of the Crue stuff, but to piggyback on the Tommy lee skateboard story, I've met Nikki Sixx and he couldn't have been a nicer guy. Plus, if you follow his socials, he's very supportive of folks regarding getting sober whenever they reach out to him.
But bottom line is lots of these rock stars who get idolized have done lots of bad stuff.
But there's a reason they say "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely". Because it's true in so many cases, and is a big reason we're all still fans of this band PJ because no one is perfect, no one is a saint whether famous or not, but it is SO MUCH HARDER to keep your values and your wits and your actions in line when the world worships you and everyone wants part of you. It's so hard to keep your sense of self in check. PJ is one of the few bands that got to that insane level of fame and worked and worked to keep their sanity in check. And to try to be good to people often taken for granted as a band rises. And to keep trying to make relevant music.
Also, as many big rockstars are there are that've done bad things, wow are there some lesser rockstars who've done even WORSE! Something about not quite getting to the level of fame you feel you deserve can make some people into serious sadists. Marilyn Manson was super famous but is also a good example of how bad it can get in how you treat people in your private life. And there are other musicians in jail for pedophilia and other sex crimes so... at least once in awhile (sadlly usually only in extreme cases) there is accountability.0 -
JH6056 said:
I think you're right, I do remember a Doors album cover with Morrison in the front and the rest of the band in the background, though not in total shadow and blurry. Too funny, although I'm sure the rest of the Doors were not amused...tempo_n_groove said:
Guitarist was up front.JH6056 said:
I think every single storyline in Almost Famous happened more times than anyone knows. I always said if I ever meet Cameron Crowe, I want to ask about the whole "Spend lots of time with a band, write an honest story, band feels totally betrayed because you name drugs and side girlfriends/groupies" because I worked (as part of the production staff, to be clear!) at a show in the late 80s/early 90s and when the band arrived they were in FOUL moods. After the show one band member got annoyed with an after show guest and pushed him backwards and he almost fell down some stairs. I was like "What the HELL are these guys always like this?" and their tour manager told me "They are really upset. We let a journalist into our inner circle and took him on tour with us and everything... and we just got an advance copy of the story he wrote, he tells a lot of details we never thought he'd actually write..." and the mag was Rolling Stone.tempo_n_groove said:
So the movie Almost Famous wasn't exaggerating when they would pass around groupies like a deck of cards? I never heard that Steven Tyler story before. Interesting.Poncier said:
I think some of the bands from late 60's and 70's far exceeded Motley and Poison in the debauchery department, just not as widely publicized. Zep certainly is up there. Steven Tyler had the parents of a 14 year old sign over guardianship of her so she could live with him. Gene $immon$ of course had his Polaroid collection...and so on.tempo_n_groove said:
I know if I really think about it I'd find some other songs that were disturbing but never really LISTENED to it that way. When you're younger things just roll off you I guess?JH6056 said:
Good search! And then there's some infamous song, I'm blanking on the title but it's a Rolling Stones song (I mean, aside from Brown Sugar, don't get me started on "Brown Sugar/How come you taste so good/Brown Sugar/Just like a Black girl should" and the whole literal slavery lyrics!!!) but another: It's "Stray Cat Blues" with, by the time the Stones toured on "Beggars Banquet" album which it's on, they were singing this:tempo_n_groove said:
So in the Create a 5 song playlist thread I did this...brianlux said:JH6056 said:Have been watching a lot of "Pluto t.v." lately, the decades music channel, with 70s, 80s & 90s videos in particular.
Recently saw The Knack's "My Sharona" video. I've known all the words for as long as I can remember, but something about watching the singer sing the lyrics as I sung them, I suddenly caught lines in the chorus like it was my first time hearing it:
"Ooh my little pretty one, my pretty one.
When you gonna give me some time, Sharona?
Ooh you make my motor run, my motor run.
Gun it comin' off the line Sharona
Never gonna stop, give it up.
Such a dirty mind.
I always get it up
For the touch
Of the younger kind.
My my my i yi woo.
M M M My Sharona"
"I ALWAYS GET IT UP FOR THE TOUCH OF THE YOUNGER KIND"???? I was like "Holy moly what have I been singing since I was a GIRL myself??? (Never mind that their sequel album was "Good Girls Don't, But I Do"...) Honestly that song, Ringo Starr's "You're 16, You're Beautiful, & You're Mine" featuring a young woman in pigtails drinking an ice cream soda and him fully bearded and NOT teenage looking, and also Rod Stewart's "Tonight's the Night": "Don't say a word, my virgin child / Just let your inhibitions run wild / The secret is about to unfold / upstairs before the night's too old" like, wow, older guys with literal GIRLS was such a blatant thing then!
How about you, any songs you sang for years and then suddenly the lyrics hit you differently later in life? (Doesn't have to be crude, just not what you thought)?It's amazing how many songs slip under the radar like that. John Mayall has done that a few times. For example:"She's Too Young"
Sixteen, she is still in schoolI've got to learn to keep it cool
She's too young, but not for me
So with a bit of luck
She will find a way to come to me
Why do people always intervene?
Very soon she'll be seventeen
She's too young to skip town
She was born to be loved
And I can't wait to bury her down
She's beautiful and waits for me
Will our plans ever come to be?
She's too young, so people say
But with the opportunity
She would run to me todayIt's not like we don't know kids "fool around" but Mayall was 36 when he wrote that song and was living in Laurel Canyon outside of L.A. "Umm, John, that actually not legal in the U.S. No, John, not even 17."Mention of "Little girl" in song somewhere... I know there are more, I have always found the term weird for an adult to say and be recorded...
Whiskey Bar- The Doors
Magic Carpet Ride- Steppin Wolf
Little bitty pretty one- Thurston Harris
Little Girl- Syndicate of Sound
I'm on Fire- Bruce SpringsteenQuote
She's only 17 is a song title by Winger I think? Hold on to 18 is by Black n Blue. A line in the Chilli peppers song says "I like but, she little".
There are a bunch of songs out there with questionable lyrics...
Stray Cat BluesSong by The Rolling StonesLyricsI hear the click-clack of your feet on the stairs
I know you're no scare-eyed honey.
There'll be a feast if you just come upstairs
But it's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
I can see that you're THIRTEEN YEARS OLD [Original lyrics 15 but they LOWERED it to 13]
No I don't want your I.D.
And I can see that you're so far from home
But it's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
Oh yeah, don'tcha scratch like that
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
I bet, bet your mama don't know you scream like that
I bet your mother don't know you can spit like that.
You look so weird and you're so far from home
But you don't really miss your mother
Don't look so scared I'm no mad-brained bear
But it's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
Oh, yeah
Woo!
I bet your mama don't know that you scatch like that
I bet she don't know you can bite like that.
You say you got a friend, that she's wilder than you
Why don't you bring her upstairs
If she's so wild then she can join in too
It's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
Oh yeah, don'tcha scratch like that
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
I bet you mama don't know you can bite like that
I'll bet she never saw you scratch my back
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It's all awful, but that line "Don't look so scared / I'm no mad-brained bear" followed by basically "But I'm not going to jail or getting sentenced to hanging for it, so I'm gonna do it anyway", the fact that she (because he did write it about a specific girl say numerous sources) KNEW she was scared just pisses me off no end.
Just found this article about the whole dynamic and how most rockstars of that era were "forgiven" in that "Oh that's just how it was then" attitude:
https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/the-rolling-stones-lyrics-stray-cat-blues-underage-groupies/
For groupies and debauchery Motley Crue and Poison are on the tops of those lists. Poison would record what they did. Motley Crue were known for outright craziness and like you said, it was "forgiven" back then. Nowadays you have stars getting nailed for grooming underage girls and they should get in trouble. That is shady in any form.
W Crue and Poison I was keeping it civil. Those dudes were pretty bad.
Anthony Keidus was no saint either. His book tells a lot about him.
But even that exact scenario probably happened multiple times, to multiple bands and journalists, so what I saw may not have at all been a band that happened to Crowe with.
I wanna know if any band ever got their band t-shirts printed only to find the singer in the foreground the only clear image, and the band all in the back blurry & in the shadows! That cracked me up! Wait, was it the singer or the guitar player in Stillwater who was foreground?
Didn't something like that happen w the Doors and an album cover? It went from The Doors to being Jim Morrison and The Doors or some shit and he was the main photo and the band.
MC story again. Those guys were usually drunk or high so when they were interviewed they gave no "F's". It is apparent when reading some of their earlier interviews.
Also, you have to start name dropping, you have all these crazy stories and no names to go with it. I am soooo curious on who did what.
It's the first album, so Morrison hadn't become the focal point publicly as yet, so probably the rest of the band was OK with it (they also named an album "Morrison Hotel" so my assumption is the other 3 new Jim was the meal ticket and rode along willingly)This weekend we rock Portland0 -
That's the one! And your assumption that they went on to see Jim as the meal ticket and acted accordingly makes total sense.Poncier said:JH6056 said:
I think you're right, I do remember a Doors album cover with Morrison in the front and the rest of the band in the background, though not in total shadow and blurry. Too funny, although I'm sure the rest of the Doors were not amused...tempo_n_groove said:
Guitarist was up front.JH6056 said:
I think every single storyline in Almost Famous happened more times than anyone knows. I always said if I ever meet Cameron Crowe, I want to ask about the whole "Spend lots of time with a band, write an honest story, band feels totally betrayed because you name drugs and side girlfriends/groupies" because I worked (as part of the production staff, to be clear!) at a show in the late 80s/early 90s and when the band arrived they were in FOUL moods. After the show one band member got annoyed with an after show guest and pushed him backwards and he almost fell down some stairs. I was like "What the HELL are these guys always like this?" and their tour manager told me "They are really upset. We let a journalist into our inner circle and took him on tour with us and everything... and we just got an advance copy of the story he wrote, he tells a lot of details we never thought he'd actually write..." and the mag was Rolling Stone.tempo_n_groove said:
So the movie Almost Famous wasn't exaggerating when they would pass around groupies like a deck of cards? I never heard that Steven Tyler story before. Interesting.Poncier said:
I think some of the bands from late 60's and 70's far exceeded Motley and Poison in the debauchery department, just not as widely publicized. Zep certainly is up there. Steven Tyler had the parents of a 14 year old sign over guardianship of her so she could live with him. Gene $immon$ of course had his Polaroid collection...and so on.tempo_n_groove said:
I know if I really think about it I'd find some other songs that were disturbing but never really LISTENED to it that way. When you're younger things just roll off you I guess?JH6056 said:
Good search! And then there's some infamous song, I'm blanking on the title but it's a Rolling Stones song (I mean, aside from Brown Sugar, don't get me started on "Brown Sugar/How come you taste so good/Brown Sugar/Just like a Black girl should" and the whole literal slavery lyrics!!!) but another: It's "Stray Cat Blues" with, by the time the Stones toured on "Beggars Banquet" album which it's on, they were singing this:tempo_n_groove said:
So in the Create a 5 song playlist thread I did this...brianlux said:JH6056 said:Have been watching a lot of "Pluto t.v." lately, the decades music channel, with 70s, 80s & 90s videos in particular.
Recently saw The Knack's "My Sharona" video. I've known all the words for as long as I can remember, but something about watching the singer sing the lyrics as I sung them, I suddenly caught lines in the chorus like it was my first time hearing it:
"Ooh my little pretty one, my pretty one.
When you gonna give me some time, Sharona?
Ooh you make my motor run, my motor run.
Gun it comin' off the line Sharona
Never gonna stop, give it up.
Such a dirty mind.
I always get it up
For the touch
Of the younger kind.
My my my i yi woo.
M M M My Sharona"
"I ALWAYS GET IT UP FOR THE TOUCH OF THE YOUNGER KIND"???? I was like "Holy moly what have I been singing since I was a GIRL myself??? (Never mind that their sequel album was "Good Girls Don't, But I Do"...) Honestly that song, Ringo Starr's "You're 16, You're Beautiful, & You're Mine" featuring a young woman in pigtails drinking an ice cream soda and him fully bearded and NOT teenage looking, and also Rod Stewart's "Tonight's the Night": "Don't say a word, my virgin child / Just let your inhibitions run wild / The secret is about to unfold / upstairs before the night's too old" like, wow, older guys with literal GIRLS was such a blatant thing then!
How about you, any songs you sang for years and then suddenly the lyrics hit you differently later in life? (Doesn't have to be crude, just not what you thought)?It's amazing how many songs slip under the radar like that. John Mayall has done that a few times. For example:"She's Too Young"
Sixteen, she is still in schoolI've got to learn to keep it cool
She's too young, but not for me
So with a bit of luck
She will find a way to come to me
Why do people always intervene?
Very soon she'll be seventeen
She's too young to skip town
She was born to be loved
And I can't wait to bury her down
She's beautiful and waits for me
Will our plans ever come to be?
She's too young, so people say
But with the opportunity
She would run to me todayIt's not like we don't know kids "fool around" but Mayall was 36 when he wrote that song and was living in Laurel Canyon outside of L.A. "Umm, John, that actually not legal in the U.S. No, John, not even 17."Mention of "Little girl" in song somewhere... I know there are more, I have always found the term weird for an adult to say and be recorded...
Whiskey Bar- The Doors
Magic Carpet Ride- Steppin Wolf
Little bitty pretty one- Thurston Harris
Little Girl- Syndicate of Sound
I'm on Fire- Bruce SpringsteenQuote
She's only 17 is a song title by Winger I think? Hold on to 18 is by Black n Blue. A line in the Chilli peppers song says "I like but, she little".
There are a bunch of songs out there with questionable lyrics...
Stray Cat BluesSong by The Rolling StonesLyricsI hear the click-clack of your feet on the stairs
I know you're no scare-eyed honey.
There'll be a feast if you just come upstairs
But it's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
I can see that you're THIRTEEN YEARS OLD [Original lyrics 15 but they LOWERED it to 13]
No I don't want your I.D.
And I can see that you're so far from home
But it's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
Oh yeah, don'tcha scratch like that
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
I bet, bet your mama don't know you scream like that
I bet your mother don't know you can spit like that.
You look so weird and you're so far from home
But you don't really miss your mother
Don't look so scared I'm no mad-brained bear
But it's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
Oh, yeah
Woo!
I bet your mama don't know that you scatch like that
I bet she don't know you can bite like that.
You say you got a friend, that she's wilder than you
Why don't you bring her upstairs
If she's so wild then she can join in too
It's no hanging matter
It's no capital crime
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
Oh yeah, don'tcha scratch like that
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
I bet you mama don't know you can bite like that
I'll bet she never saw you scratch my back
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It's all awful, but that line "Don't look so scared / I'm no mad-brained bear" followed by basically "But I'm not going to jail or getting sentenced to hanging for it, so I'm gonna do it anyway", the fact that she (because he did write it about a specific girl say numerous sources) KNEW she was scared just pisses me off no end.
Just found this article about the whole dynamic and how most rockstars of that era were "forgiven" in that "Oh that's just how it was then" attitude:
https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/the-rolling-stones-lyrics-stray-cat-blues-underage-groupies/
For groupies and debauchery Motley Crue and Poison are on the tops of those lists. Poison would record what they did. Motley Crue were known for outright craziness and like you said, it was "forgiven" back then. Nowadays you have stars getting nailed for grooming underage girls and they should get in trouble. That is shady in any form.
W Crue and Poison I was keeping it civil. Those dudes were pretty bad.
Anthony Keidus was no saint either. His book tells a lot about him.
But even that exact scenario probably happened multiple times, to multiple bands and journalists, so what I saw may not have at all been a band that happened to Crowe with.
I wanna know if any band ever got their band t-shirts printed only to find the singer in the foreground the only clear image, and the band all in the back blurry & in the shadows! That cracked me up! Wait, was it the singer or the guitar player in Stillwater who was foreground?
Didn't something like that happen w the Doors and an album cover? It went from The Doors to being Jim Morrison and The Doors or some shit and he was the main photo and the band.
MC story again. Those guys were usually drunk or high so when they were interviewed they gave no "F's". It is apparent when reading some of their earlier interviews.
Also, you have to start name dropping, you have all these crazy stories and no names to go with it. I am soooo curious on who did what.
It's the first album, so Morrison hadn't become the focal point publicly as yet, so probably the rest of the band was OK with it (they also named an album "Morrison Hotel" so my assumption is the other 3 new Jim was the meal ticket and rode along willingly)0 -
Over on the Steve Hoffman music sited, there have been some interesting discussion about where do listeners draw the line with recording artists who have been involved in shady, despicable, or illegal activities. Some have made strong arguments for separating the music from the persons personal behavior and to some degree I can see that as a valid argument. But over the years I have become less tolerant that way. There is plenty of great music made by decent people who also set a good example in a world desperately in need of public figures leading exemplary lives. I am more and more disinclined to wanting to support perverted, criminal, abusive, or artists, or even artists with overblown egos. Fame and widespread recognition do not necessarily lead a person down those paths, but when it does, I lose interest and definitely cease to support that artist or band.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
I totally agree. I think because I grew up liking a lot of bands with messages about standing up for what's right, I've always been clear to distance myself from an artist or band that publicly or verifiably did some seriously crappy stuff or promotes stuff I view as crappy.brianlux said:Over on the Steve Hoffman music sited, there have been some interesting discussion about where do listeners draw the line with recording artists who have been involved in shady, despicable, or illegal activities. Some have made strong arguments for separating the music from the persons personal behavior and to some degree I can see that as a valid argument. But over the years I have become less tolerant that way. There is plenty of great music made by decent people who also set a good example in a world desperately in need of public figures leading exemplary lives. I am more and more disinclined to wanting to support perverted, criminal, abusive, or artists, or even artists with overblown egos. Fame and widespread recognition do not necessarily lead a person down those paths, but when it does, I lose interest and definitely cease to support that artist or band.
I love the Smiths, but when Morrisey first started canceling shows last minute or refusing to play, and THEN when he came out as let's just say "politically at odds with my views" (understatement of the century!), I am the first to say "I still think the Smiths were a great band. I no longer support or will pay a penny for anything Morrisey is involved in." There was an 80s music festival with him as the headliner, there were SO MANY good bands on one bill, one day fest... I'd have been sure to go otherwise. But protesting with my dollar and my presence are the only way someone like that pays attention, and from what I heard even as great as the lineup was, there were bands asked to play who didn't because of what he's come to stand for.
If someone wants to look past a band's bad behavior, or believes in the "separate the music from the musician" thing, that's their right for sure. That's just not me at all. But it always amuses me when bands or artists (or politicians or celebrities) are SHOCKED that their bad behavior or publicly-expressed views might lead to them losing fans or gigs. And they call it "cancel culture" which is so much bullshit, because when they disagree with another artist they're the first ones to call for boycotts or use social media to try to shame the people they disagree with.
2022... It's all happening! (to quote Almost Famous
)
Btw, I'm sure I should know this, but who is Steve Hoffman? I looked him up, is he the "master Engineer" who worked I guess on like Buddy Holly and John Coltrane albums? Or someone else? Sounds like a cool forum those discussions are happening on...0 -
JH6056 said:
I totally agree. I think because I grew up liking a lot of bands with messages about standing up for what's right, I've always been clear to distance myself from an artist or band that publicly or verifiably did some seriously crappy stuff or promotes stuff I view as crappy.brianlux said:Over on the Steve Hoffman music sited, there have been some interesting discussion about where do listeners draw the line with recording artists who have been involved in shady, despicable, or illegal activities. Some have made strong arguments for separating the music from the persons personal behavior and to some degree I can see that as a valid argument. But over the years I have become less tolerant that way. There is plenty of great music made by decent people who also set a good example in a world desperately in need of public figures leading exemplary lives. I am more and more disinclined to wanting to support perverted, criminal, abusive, or artists, or even artists with overblown egos. Fame and widespread recognition do not necessarily lead a person down those paths, but when it does, I lose interest and definitely cease to support that artist or band.
I love the Smiths, but when Morrisey first started canceling shows last minute or refusing to play, and THEN when he came out as let's just say "politically at odds with my views" (understatement of the century!), I am the first to say "I still think the Smiths were a great band. I no longer support or will pay a penny for anything Morrisey is involved in." There was an 80s music festival with him as the headliner, there were SO MANY good bands on one bill, one day fest... I'd have been sure to go otherwise. But protesting with my dollar and my presence are the only way someone like that pays attention, and from what I heard even as great as the lineup was, there were bands asked to play who didn't because of what he's come to stand for.
If someone wants to look past a band's bad behavior, or believes in the "separate the music from the musician" thing, that's their right for sure. That's just not me at all. But it always amuses me when bands or artists (or politicians or celebrities) are SHOCKED that their bad behavior or publicly-expressed views might lead to them losing fans or gigs. And they call it "cancel culture" which is so much bullshit, because when they disagree with another artist they're the first ones to call for boycotts or use social media to try to shame the people they disagree with.
2022... It's all happening! (to quote Almost Famous )
Btw, I'm sure I should know this, but who is Steve Hoffman? I looked him up, is he the "master Engineer" who worked I guess on like Buddy Holly and John Coltrane albums? Or someone else? Sounds like a cool forum those discussions are happening on...I don't know enough about Morrissey to know his political views although I do remember something about him having a strong hatred for Royalty.Yeah, I agree about the whole "cancel culture" thing. Same with "politically correct" as a term that is too easy to jump on too quickly. Those are terms that are more about ego and shaming others. Both are also more about people yelling at each other without enough introspection. I was actually encouraged when someone I knew who considered herself to be "politically correct" later retracted that and admitted to some imperfections she admitted about herself that she wanted to correct. That seems a lot more constructive to me.Steve Hoffman is a top notch recording engineer who has done a lot of excellent audiophile mastering and, from what I know of him, seems like a really nice guy. I learned about his website one day years back by doing a Google search for "what is the best sounding pressing of...(whatever album I was interested in at the time)", and came up with a thread on one of the music forums. The music related information that can be gleaned from that site can be excellent though I have found the forums have too often degraded to petty on-line bickering. But what's new, right, lol?That goes into the whole other subject of the decline of civility which, unfortunately, I think is one of the drawbacks to the internet. The internet has provided much good in the way of making information vastly available, but it has also allowed, I think, I certain amount of "freedom" to be rude and obnoxious because of the ability to hide behind anonymity. That's one of the reasons I use my real name as my user name. That may not make me the best person in the world and it certainly doesn't necessarily make me "right" about everything, but it keeps me honest.Here's Steve's website page. You can read the forums (by clicking on "forums") without joining and if you decide to join, although Steve does occasionally ask for donations to cover the expenses of running the site, there is no fee to join (and I don't know why the site address includes the term "tv" since he is all about music recording, not TV!):
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Poncier said:JH6056 said:
I think you're right, I do remember a Doors album cover with Morrison in the front and the rest of the band in the background, though not in total shadow and blurry. Too funny, although I'm sure the rest of the Doors were not amused...tempo_n_groove said:
Guitarist was up front.JH6056 said:
Didn't something like that happen w the Doors and an album cover? It went from The Doors to being Jim Morrison and The Doors or some shit and he was the main photo and the band.
MC story again. Those guys were usually drunk or high so when they were interviewed they gave no "F's". It is apparent when reading some of their earlier interviews.
Also, you have to start name dropping, you have all these crazy stories and no names to go with it. I am soooo curious on who did what.
It's the first album, so Morrison hadn't become the focal point publicly as yet, so probably the rest of the band was OK with it (they also named an album "Morrison Hotel" so my assumption is the other 3 new Jim was the meal ticket and rode along willingly)
OK so something that Morrison did was make sure that the band all got equal say in everything. Each one owned 25% of the band, it's music and such. I believe it was Densmore that would often veto certain ideas that were later on and weren't exactly in line w how the Doors wanted their former selves to be seen.JH6056 said:
That's the one! And your assumption that they went on to see Jim as the meal ticket and acted accordingly makes total sense.Poncier said:JH6056 said:
I think you're right, I do remember a Doors album cover with Morrison in the front and the rest of the band in the background, though not in total shadow and blurry. Too funny, although I'm sure the rest of the Doors were not amused...
It's the first album, so Morrison hadn't become the focal point publicly as yet, so probably the rest of the band was OK with it (they also named an album "Morrison Hotel" so my assumption is the other 3 new Jim was the meal ticket and rode along willingly)0 -
tempo_n_groove said:Poncier said:JH6056 said:
I think you're right, I do remember a Doors album cover with Morrison in the front and the rest of the band in the background, though not in total shadow and blurry. Too funny, although I'm sure the rest of the Doors were not amused...tempo_n_groove said:
Guitarist was up front.JH6056 said:
Didn't something like that happen w the Doors and an album cover? It went from The Doors to being Jim Morrison and The Doors or some shit and he was the main photo and the band.
MC story again. Those guys were usually drunk or high so when they were interviewed they gave no "F's". It is apparent when reading some of their earlier interviews.
Also, you have to start name dropping, you have all these crazy stories and no names to go with it. I am soooo curious on who did what.
It's the first album, so Morrison hadn't become the focal point publicly as yet, so probably the rest of the band was OK with it (they also named an album "Morrison Hotel" so my assumption is the other 3 new Jim was the meal ticket and rode along willingly)
OK so something that Morrison did was make sure that the band all got equal say in everything. Each one owned 25% of the band, it's music and such. I believe it was Densmore that would often veto certain ideas that were later on and weren't exactly in line w how the Doors wanted their former selves to be seen.JH6056 said:
That's the one! And your assumption that they went on to see Jim as the meal ticket and acted accordingly makes total sense.Poncier said:JH6056 said:
I think you're right, I do remember a Doors album cover with Morrison in the front and the rest of the band in the background, though not in total shadow and blurry. Too funny, although I'm sure the rest of the Doors were not amused...
It's the first album, so Morrison hadn't become the focal point publicly as yet, so probably the rest of the band was OK with it (they also named an album "Morrison Hotel" so my assumption is the other 3 new Jim was the meal ticket and rode along willingly)It's interesting how (at least up until Ray Manzarek died) the band became fragmented when John Densmore stood strong on defending Morrison's adamant wish to not let the band's songs (or more to the point, Morrison's lyrics) be used in advertising and commercialism. Densmore took Krieger and Manzarek to court over the issue. His efforts where supported by Neil Young, Eddie Vedder, Tom Petty, Tom Waits, Bonnie Raitt and Randy Newman, and he was successful in maintaining Morrison's wishes.His books about those events, The Doors Unhinged, is worth checking out:
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Oh yeah, no question that the anonymity allowed by the internet has both freed cowardly & insecure & also plain old MEAN people to say & do things they'd NEVER EVER say or do in the real world, with people standing right in front of them. And it's created the worst kinds of "echo chambers" where you can only engage with people who think as you do. Which is understandable to want in some ways, but horrible for staying in touch with the real world we're all living in.brianlux said:JH6056 said:
I totally agree. I think because I grew up liking a lot of bands with messages about standing up for what's right, I've always been clear to distance myself from an artist or band that publicly or verifiably did some seriously crappy stuff or promotes stuff I view as crappy.brianlux said:Over on the Steve Hoffman music sited, there have been some interesting discussion about where do listeners draw the line with recording artists who have been involved in shady, despicable, or illegal activities. Some have made strong arguments for separating the music from the persons personal behavior and to some degree I can see that as a valid argument. But over the years I have become less tolerant that way. There is plenty of great music made by decent people who also set a good example in a world desperately in need of public figures leading exemplary lives. I am more and more disinclined to wanting to support perverted, criminal, abusive, or artists, or even artists with overblown egos. Fame and widespread recognition do not necessarily lead a person down those paths, but when it does, I lose interest and definitely cease to support that artist or band.
I love the Smiths, but when Morrisey first started canceling shows last minute or refusing to play, and THEN when he came out as let's just say "politically at odds with my views" (understatement of the century!), I am the first to say "I still think the Smiths were a great band. I no longer support or will pay a penny for anything Morrisey is involved in." There was an 80s music festival with him as the headliner, there were SO MANY good bands on one bill, one day fest... I'd have been sure to go otherwise. But protesting with my dollar and my presence are the only way someone like that pays attention, and from what I heard even as great as the lineup was, there were bands asked to play who didn't because of what he's come to stand for.
If someone wants to look past a band's bad behavior, or believes in the "separate the music from the musician" thing, that's their right for sure. That's just not me at all. But it always amuses me when bands or artists (or politicians or celebrities) are SHOCKED that their bad behavior or publicly-expressed views might lead to them losing fans or gigs. And they call it "cancel culture" which is so much bullshit, because when they disagree with another artist they're the first ones to call for boycotts or use social media to try to shame the people they disagree with.
2022... It's all happening! (to quote Almost Famous )
Btw, I'm sure I should know this, but who is Steve Hoffman? I looked him up, is he the "master Engineer" who worked I guess on like Buddy Holly and John Coltrane albums? Or someone else? Sounds like a cool forum those discussions are happening on...I don't know enough about Morrissey to know his political views although I do remember something about him having a strong hatred for Royalty.Yeah, I agree about the whole "cancel culture" thing. Same with "politically correct" as a term that is too easy to jump on too quickly. Those are terms that are more about ego and shaming others. Both are also more about people yelling at each other without enough introspection. I was actually encouraged when someone I knew who considered herself to be "politically correct" later retracted that and admitted to some imperfections she admitted about herself that she wanted to correct. That seems a lot more constructive to me.Steve Hoffman is a top notch recording engineer who has done a lot of excellent audiophile mastering and, from what I know of him, seems like a really nice guy. I learned about his website one day years back by doing a Google search for "what is the best sounding pressing of...(whatever album I was interested in at the time)", and came up with a thread on one of the music forums. The music related information that can be gleaned from that site can be excellent though I have found the forums have too often degraded to petty on-line bickering. But what's new, right, lol?That goes into the whole other subject of the decline of civility which, unfortunately, I think is one of the drawbacks to the internet. The internet has provided much good in the way of making information vastly available, but it has also allowed, I think, I certain amount of "freedom" to be rude and obnoxious because of the ability to hide behind anonymity. That's one of the reasons I use my real name as my user name. That may not make me the best person in the world and it certainly doesn't necessarily make me "right" about everything, but it keeps me honest.Here's Steve's website page. You can read the forums (by clicking on "forums") without joining and if you decide to join, although Steve does occasionally ask for donations to cover the expenses of running the site, there is no fee to join (and I don't know why the site address includes the term "tv" since he is all about music recording, not TV!):
Thanks for the Hoffman links, I'll check him out.0
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