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Why pj surrended fight with tm?

NoiseReactionNoiseReaction Posts: 1
in All Encompassing Trip
I really can't uderstand why, after all those battles,pj let's tm fuck US in the ass?

Comments

  • CROJAM95CROJAM95 Posts: 10,802
    The man, man 

    I think our politicians let them do the fucking
  • PureandEasyPureandEasy Posts: 5,818
    CROJAM95 said:
    The man, man 

    I think our politicians let them do the fucking
    BINGO!!!  When PJ fought TM, Congress was probably 95% older white men; just throwing out a figure (?).  They don't care about a company charging young people . . .fans excessive money for . . . CONCERTS.  For ROCK concerts???  It was probably an insult to them to have to even address the issue; they had more pressing monopolies to address, communications companies; communications mergers; a computer company monopoly. Those who support their campaigns.  And of course, they also had to make sure the NRA was safe.  Priorities people!!!
    Don't come closer or I'll have to go
  • mookeywrenchmookeywrench Posts: 6,033
    NoiseReaction said:
    I really can't uderstand why, after all those battles,pj let's tm fuck US in the ass?
    Why is it Pearl Jam's battle and not yours?
    350x700px-LL-d2f49cb4_vinyl-needle-scu-e1356666258495.jpeg
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,399
    Just like Lars Ulrich with Napster or Neil Young with Spotify, they didn’t get the overwhelming support from the community.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Get_RightGet_Right Posts: 14,000
    The main reason? Money. Buckets and buckets of money.
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,598
    that’s right, money. We need to ask ourselves, when a major rock tour rolls into the nearest arena with 50 huge tractor trailers and busloads of tour personnel, and huge investments in the latest sound and lighting tech, can a band put on a world class show for $105 per ticket sold and make a solid profit?

    The nearest comparable are arena sporting events, who have enormous alternate revenue sources, such as luxury suites, season tickets , local and national tv money. PJ has you and me.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 41,673
    Because they’re up against this?

    https://apple.news/Abd8nLkN3TJSIatn6nmjSkA
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  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 17,807
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Because they’re up against this?

    https://apple.news/Abd8nLkN3TJSIatn6nmjSkA
    Key items:

    While Live Nation and Ticketmaster will more than likely urge high-demand artists to use tools like dynamic pricing to take more of the profits off the scalpers and put them into their own hands, the artist has to agree to whatever ticketing strategy their tour employs.
    But still, artists do have some autonomy for their ticketing strategies, and while they shouldn’t always be the first to blame for a ticketing fiasco, it is somewhat a matter of how aggressively they want to pursue a fair ticketing market for customers. As the former executive puts it, “Ticketmaster is mainly the order-taker here. If an artist said they wanted tickets to be five dollars, then that’s what they’d cost. Whether it’s Live Nation, Ticketmaster, AEG, everything should be in support of that. Then it’s a matter of the artists owning their decisions. 
    “Artists can say, ‘Look I’m worth it, you’re gonna pay that,’” the exec adds. “Take that to the consumers, then you let the fans decide if that’s right. Or on the other side, ‘I’m an altruist and I want fans to have the cheapest price possible, and I’ll still put on that show and leave some money.’ That’s great, and let the artists have those tools. The sad part is, I actually think a lot of those tools are there, they’re just not always being used.”

    The only ones responsible for PJ using dynamic pricing and "PJ Premium" are Pearl Jam. 

    This weekend we rock Portland
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,899
    edited August 2022
    Pearl Jam got a very large percentage of tickets for fan club members for the spring and fall US Tours.  There is a give and take. Clearly their take was getting more fan club tickets, their give was allowing some over pricing on the PJ Premium tickets.  I imagine PJ is taking a lot less money they could from Ticketmaster to get more fan club tickets.

    EDIT:  and they didn't abandon their fight.  They was no fight left. Either play ticketmaste venues or find it hard to tour.  So they've figured out a way to work with ticketmaster and still get more fan club tickets than expected. 

    Post edited by pjhawks on
  • Get_RightGet_Right Posts: 14,000
    pjhawks said:
    Pearl Jam got a very large percentage of tickets for fan club members for the spring and fall US Tours.  There is a give and take. Clearly their take was getting more fan club tickets, their give was allowing some over pricing on the PJ Premium tickets.  I imagine PJ is taking a lot less money they could from Ticketmaster to get more fan club tickets.

    EDIT:  and they didn't abandon their fight.  They was no fight left. Either play ticketmaste venues or find it hard to tour.  So they've figured out a way to work with ticketmaster and still get more fan club tickets than expected. 


    This is true but not the entire story.  They could require fixed prices for all remaining tickets and that is what Pearl Jam used to do even with the fan club allotment. That is getting lost in these discussions and that is why Springsteen is being criticized. 

    Problem is that TM offers to share the revenue from the dynamic pricing. That money could either go to the artist or to the secondary market. Is it right that there is a billion dollar industry that profits off the resale of concert tickets? That is a tough call for an artist. Scalpers have been around since forever but in the digital age there is visibility to the dollars and cents. The numbers are too big for an artist to ignore.

    Simple solution, play more shows!
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 44,033
    Poncier said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Because they’re up against this?

    https://apple.news/Abd8nLkN3TJSIatn6nmjSkA
    Key items:

    While Live Nation and Ticketmaster will more than likely urge high-demand artists to use tools like dynamic pricing to take more of the profits off the scalpers and put them into their own hands, the artist has to agree to whatever ticketing strategy their tour employs.
    But still, artists do have some autonomy for their ticketing strategies, and while they shouldn’t always be the first to blame for a ticketing fiasco, it is somewhat a matter of how aggressively they want to pursue a fair ticketing market for customers. As the former executive puts it, “Ticketmaster is mainly the order-taker here. If an artist said they wanted tickets to be five dollars, then that’s what they’d cost. Whether it’s Live Nation, Ticketmaster, AEG, everything should be in support of that. Then it’s a matter of the artists owning their decisions. 
    “Artists can say, ‘Look I’m worth it, you’re gonna pay that,’” the exec adds. “Take that to the consumers, then you let the fans decide if that’s right. Or on the other side, ‘I’m an altruist and I want fans to have the cheapest price possible, and I’ll still put on that show and leave some money.’ That’s great, and let the artists have those tools. The sad part is, I actually think a lot of those tools are there, they’re just not always being used.”

    The only ones responsible for PJ using dynamic pricing and "PJ Premium" are Pearl Jam. 


    fans willing to pay those ridiculous drive that after the first show...
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  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 16,225
    I'm over ticket pricing for concerts.  If too high, I just won't go.  If people are willing to pay high prices to go, then the artist/TM should just go ahead and charge what they want.   Sucks as I'd like to see Bruce or Pearl Jam, but if going to cost me $1,000 then I'll find something else to do with that money.   Not going to waste energy fretting about it.  
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,993
    I am pretty sure I have been priced out of going to see PJ for the immediate future.  With $100+ tickets and pretty much being required to travel and take multiple days off work unless you are lucky enough to live within a few hours drive of a venue.  I love Pj and have seen some great shows, but with them touring less, playing in limited markets with higher ticket prices and the near requirement for travel and lodging, it just isn't gonna happen. I love the music, but not enough to justify nearing $1000 to see them live at this point.  Maybe I will get lucky and they will come to ATX, otherwise I can't justify it.
    Scio me nihil scire

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  • dankinddankind Posts: 20,841
    My gauge has been whether I can buy a guitar (or other gear) I've been eying with that money instead. If the concert costs as much or more than the guitar/gear, then I'm not buying tickets to the concert.

    Having said that, I would likely make exceptions for Tom Waits, Fiona Apple, and Sade.
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    dankind said:
    My gauge has been whether I can buy a guitar (or other gear) I've been eying with that money instead. If the concert costs as much or more than the guitar/gear, then I'm not buying tickets to the concert.

    Having said that, I would likely make exceptions for Tom Waits, Fiona Apple, and Sade.
    For me, venue is important as well. I think my concert days at arenas or stadiums are over, as I’ve little tolerance for people in general (unless it’s folks of my choosing).

    Now, a smallish place? Hell yeah. Depends on whether the band even merits my buying tickets, but the smaller places have given me some my favorite shows — Puscifer at The Ace Hotel, Missio at The Troubadour, A Perfect Circle at the Hollywood Bowl, 2 Cellos at the Greek.

    I really miss that. Soon!
  • 1ThoughtKnown1ThoughtKnown Posts: 6,155
    There weren’t any other artists interested in joining PJ in the fight. They went at it alone and in the end, because of PJ you at least get to see what the fees are on a ticket. 

    Why this consistently gets brought up is somewhat baffling. Everyone complains about TM having a monopoly and “screwing you over” yet shops blindly at oligopolies created by Amazon and Walmart. 

    TM has the contracts for the arenas and stadiums which host the popular acts. I’m assuming the owners of these venues (and the sports franchises who occupy them) have a pretty good stake in Live Nation stock.  Hell, the Canada Pension Plan has over $677,000,000 invested in live Nation stock. These fuckers are helping fund all of our retirement😂😂😂.

  • PureandEasyPureandEasy Posts: 5,818
    I guarantee had I not won FC tickets for the September Camden, NJ show I probably would not be attending.  As it is, two tickets were $304.  Expensive but doable.  And even understandable.  Concerts are not cheap to put on and I can justify the cost.  The outrageous prices I saw people being quoted through TM in general, NO WAY.  It's a damn shame, live music should be affordable for the fans and that shipped has sailed unfortunately.  

    Don't come closer or I'll have to go
  • smile6680smile6680 Posts: 433
    NoiseReaction said:
    I really can't uderstand why, after all those battles,pj let's tm fuck US in the ass?
    They didn't care enough/realized it would take up too much time

    What could they do other than play non ticketmaster venues {Which is difficult}, but possible.

    Other than the fan club going back to distributing physical ticket s it's a necessary evil to use ticketmaster.


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