*** DONALD J TRUMP HAS OFFICIALLY BEEN INDICTED ***

The Juggler said:

I think some folks are just not following the story as closely as others are.

The Juggler said:

static111 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

static111 said:

Go Beavers said:

static111 said:

The Juggler said:

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

So I read the redacted affidavit(and footnotes).  can someone please tell me if I am missing something?  Basically inept former POTUS did not properly store documents that may or may not have been classified due to the nature of his presidential authority concerning declassification. Said declassification authority will probably go to the courts for a final answer.  I saw no mention of selling or divulging secrets to hostile foreign powers.  After 6 years is the best we can do that former guy didn't store documents in an approved location?  I mean I want to see him get brought up on charges, but based on my reading of the affidavit I personally think he walks and maybe scores some witch hunt points, and that some of you are going to be extremely let down yet again.

I am not getting the same feeling that this is finally the damning evidence we have been waiting for that seems pretty prevalent amongst liberal circles these days.

So let's be clear, the NARA and DOJ never said they were prepared to charge him criminally.  The affidavit and search warrant was put before the court to forcibly return documents to the custody of the US gov't, consistent with the presidential records act of 78.  This was necessitated because team Trump first 1. Refused to turn them over 2. Turned over some 3. Signed an affidavit that they were all turned over, but that turned out to be false.  And the nature of the held documents were determined to be extremely sensitive in nature that have differentiated requirements related to possession and storage.  

The question that the MEDIA asks is whether removing them from the custody of the gov't and obstructing the gov't from retrieving them is criminal.  From that first day, I posted here that I wonder if the limit of the DOJ's involvement is simply to retrieve the documents.  Nothing that I have learned since then has informed me that is or is not the limit of what will happen.  

This clears things up and takes things out of the fever dream that some people seem to be living in.  It seems that it may be a case of a records violation when framed like this.  If that is the case I don't see a former president getting much more than a slap on the wrist unless he actually knowingly divulged secrets from said documents to hostile foreign governments.

What do you think he was doing with these top secret documents that he and his lawyers lied about having in the first place and then refused to return when asked?

I have no idea what he was doing. I can speculate all day and start my own Qanon type dot connecting, but that is all speculation.  From a court standpoint they can argue that they didn't believe that they had anything they shouldn't because it was all declassified, and it will likely be answered by the courts.  Other than that I just see a lot of wishing and speculation.

Qanon dot connecting? 99.9% likely he used the info for cash and leverage business deals with foreign countries. He has a long history of corrupt deals, and people with personality disorders don’t change their behavior patterns. 

Yeah that could be true.  Until it is proved it is just speculation though.  I don't think anyone has seen any evidence yet to prove those documents made the nation less safe than say the things that the government did that Snowden, Assange, Manning  etc blew the whistle on.  Again if it can be proved that Trump did all these terrible things and put the nation at risk, make the punishment fit the crime.  Until then all that any of us on the moving train can come up with is purely speculatory.

The Juggler said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

This shit wasn't the White House dinner menu of hamberders served with ketchup. Or transcripts of press conferences that were broadcast on major television outlets. This shit was highly classified information that put our national security at risk. NATIONAL. SECURITY. AT. RISK.

The amount of "I'll believe it when I see it" and excuse making is beyond me. Its why we are where we are and why POOTWH keeps pulling shit. Because otherwise normal, intelligent people say, "ha, no way was he up to no good, just a political vendetta and as POTUS, until it goes to court, no biggie."

And today its reported that NARA still doesn't think everything has been returned. Ho, ho, fucking hummmmmmmm.

What a Sh................. country.

#putinontheritziswinning

Moving the goal posts is quite the popular game for a lot of people in the country nowadays. Sheesh.

Am I moving the goal posts?  I am just looking for clear evidence of the egregious crimes that presumably everyone but me has proof of.  I see it as a case of dumb ass put the papers in the wrong folder.  Are people suggesting that we just throw our legal system out the window because we believe Donald Trump deserves to be punished for something?  To reiterate, if there was something done that made us all so much more unsafe than anything else our government has done in the past century, then yes please make an example.  

what more evidence do you need that trump will 100% of the time put himself and his interests before the united states of america?

the fact that he had the documents in his unsecured home, did not handle them correctly, and did not return them when asked several times, and even lied about returning them is all part of a felony and he needs to be indicted and tried. reality winter got 5 years for one document. trump had and withheld over 300. 

i believe he may have been holding on to those documents to help him to make money because we all know he is going broke.

i can't believe after all you have seen the last 7 years that you can still defend him. 

quoting because i forgot to mention the fact that he has had several excuses and dubious justifications for having them in the first place and not returning them. he has been heard to have said "they are not their documents, they are mine." his legal defense has changed 3 or 4 times in the last 2 weeks.

come on man. what have you heard that makes you think he may have made an innocent mistake?

this is the man that said to introduce bleach into the body and also introduce a very powerful light into the body for covid. it is quite possible that he is a very stupid man, AND has criminal intent in everything that he does.

I'm confused as to where I am defending him.  I absolutely  think he is probably guilty of many crimes and was a terrible president I don't know any of these things, I can come up with my own subjective opinion, but that is it..  I just don't see this current situation as the thing that brings him down.  I'm pretty certain that he has surrounded himself with people that will give him plausible deniability, and if that doesn't work he will wait it out in the courts forever paid for by his supporters.  I find it laughable that this is seen as defending him.  I'm sorry I got my hopes up too many times only to be let down.  The reality is if nothing up to now was enough to bring Trump to justice, I don't think this is what gets him. It is likely that if charges are brought and he goes to court he pleads the "I was president and thought I could do what I wanted with "my" documents" and gets if anything a small penalty of some type. If that is defending...I don't know what to tell you

How closely are you paying attention to this story? I don't see how there is any possible way that weak ass argument would hold up in court. Had he returned them when he was asked to....maybe that might work. But he's been asked to return them multiple times over the last year and a half. Multiple subpoenas have been issued. He and his lawyers lied to DOJ about having extra top secret documents after returning the first 15 boxes. Indictment is likely at this point. 

And you keep bringing up past investigations as if they have anything to do with this one. They don't. Of all the investigations over the last few years, this one is much more likely to lead to his downfall. Not saying it will, but it is so much easier to tie him directly to this as opposed to him easily shielding himself in the Oval while was president. 

static111 said:

The Juggler said:

I think some folks are just not following the story as closely as others are.

I'm following it just as closely as anyone.  I'm not eat sleeping and breathing it, because that is a waste of my time.  My conclusions are that this isn't what brings him down.  You have different conclusions and I hope you and Hal are right and can come I told you so me to death in a few months.  I just think due to Trump being Trump and being in uncharted waters as to the limits of executive power, that the outcome will not be as clear cut as it would with a non president.  Again, I hope you and Hal are right and this is it and it brings him down and deflates his power and position.  My view is that that is wishful thinking.  How many times were we sure that the Mueller investigation or either of the impeachments were going to do the job, only to later be massively let down?

The Juggler said:

static111 said:

The Juggler said:

I think some folks are just not following the story as closely as others are.

I'm following it just as closely as anyone.  I'm not eat sleeping and breathing it, because that is a waste of my time.  My conclusions are that this isn't what brings him down.  You have different conclusions and I hope you and Hal are right and can come I told you so me to death in a few months.  I just think due to Trump being Trump and being in uncharted waters as to the limits of executive power, that the outcome will not be as clear cut as it would with a non president.  Again, I hope you and Hal are right and this is it and it brings him down and deflates his power and position.  My view is that that is wishful thinking.  How many times were we sure that the Mueller investigation or either of the impeachments were going to do the job, only to later be massively let down?

Based on some of the things you've said, you could have fooled me. Like, how, after everything we have learned, can you possibly think "I made a mistake. I thought I could do anything I want with my documents" will hold up in court? That is essentially what you said in an earlier post. That argument holds no weight what so ever. 

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

The Juggler said:

I think some folks are just not following the story as closely as others are.

I'm following it just as closely as anyone.  I'm not eat sleeping and breathing it, because that is a waste of my time.  My conclusions are that this isn't what brings him down.  You have different conclusions and I hope you and Hal are right and can come I told you so me to death in a few months.  I just think due to Trump being Trump and being in uncharted waters as to the limits of executive power, that the outcome will not be as clear cut as it would with a non president.  Again, I hope you and Hal are right and this is it and it brings him down and deflates his power and position.  My view is that that is wishful thinking.  How many times were we sure that the Mueller investigation or either of the impeachments were going to do the job, only to later be massively let down?

I don't see anything "bringing him down" like a perp walk.  He is smart enough to protect himself and have others take his fall.  What's happening is that support and Trump fatigue keep chipping away at his support.