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  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,795
    JH6056 said:
    brianlux said:
    Am I the only one here who sees rock and rap/hip hop as being two distinct genres in music?
    They are distinct genres, but no question that rap has had serious impact on rock. From rock pop to heavy rock, rap has had an unmistakable influence on many bands. So in a conversation about which 5 artists had biggest impact on the rock genre, it is totally fair to discuss rap artists because of how much that music has affected so many genres, even dang country!

    And just to make @Get_Right happy, I'll hold the Beastie Boys up as a good example of the mix =) . Check out this song, it's impossible to say it's not a perfect fusion of rock and rap, even if you don't like the song itself...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdJ5e70Q8mw

    [Note the "proves my point perfectly" first subtitles "TENSE ANGRY MUSIC"  =) ]
    This is a rap group playing rock music and has no rap undertones...

    The style reminds me of 90's hardcore perfectly too. A lot of NY bands at this time sounded like this.

    I believe Blondie gave rapping a try in a song way back when too?
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,795
    Question.

    Is it Little Richard, Chuck Berry or Bo Diddley that started the rock thing or a combination of the 3?
  • Get_Right
    Get_Right Posts: 14,203
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Question.

    Is it Little Richard, Chuck Berry or Bo Diddley that started the rock thing or a combination of the 3?
    Bill Haley & The Comets?
  • GB281198
    GB281198 Virginia Posts: 645
    tempo_n_groove said:
    GB281198 said:
    Not much mention of Led Zeppelin but they had a huge influence on rock music. They changed the record industry as well as what live rock shows became.
    I think Sabbath had a bigger mark on the world of rock than Zep did.  They were big, yes but I don't see them as game changers.  Maybe some kids wanted to play their guitar with a bow?
    I was referring to how they had creative control of there music and the 3+ hour live shows. To me Zeppelin was most influential as a live band 
  • JH6056
    JH6056 Posts: 2,437
    tempo_n_groove said:
    JH6056 said:
    brianlux said:
    Am I the only one here who sees rock and rap/hip hop as being two distinct genres in music?
    They are distinct genres, but no question that rap has had serious impact on rock. From rock pop to heavy rock, rap has had an unmistakable influence on many bands. So in a conversation about which 5 artists had biggest impact on the rock genre, it is totally fair to discuss rap artists because of how much that music has affected so many genres, even dang country!

    And just to make @Get_Right happy, I'll hold the Beastie Boys up as a good example of the mix =) . Check out this song, it's impossible to say it's not a perfect fusion of rock and rap, even if you don't like the song itself...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdJ5e70Q8mw

    [Note the "proves my point perfectly" first subtitles "TENSE ANGRY MUSIC"  =) ]
    This is a rap group playing rock music and has no rap undertones...

    The style reminds me of 90's hardcore perfectly too. A lot of NY bands at this time sounded like this.

    I believe Blondie gave rapping a try in a song way back when too?
    I disagree that it's "rock music" only and has "no rap undertones", and would happily get into a discussion about this specific song, but further discussion of rap isn't welcome in this convo by the original poster so...  maybe we'll meet up at an east coast gig one day and have this debate in person  ;)
  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,818
    edited August 2022
    I would argue the Beastie Boys were pretty influential in changing both rock AND rap in the late '80s early '90s. 
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,760
    edited August 2022
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Question.

    Is it Little Richard, Chuck Berry or Bo Diddley that started the rock thing or a combination of the 3?

    A number of people have made a good argument for Jackie Brenston's “Rocket 88” from 1951 being the beginning of rock and roll.  There's even a music book publishing company named after the song:

    I have this book:

    Dinosaur Jr Classic Edition


    Post edited by brianlux on
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • ZoSoTim
    ZoSoTim Posts: 1,315
    tempo_n_groove said:
    GB281198 said:
    Not much mention of Led Zeppelin but they had a huge influence on rock music. They changed the record industry as well as what live rock shows became.
    I think Sabbath had a bigger mark on the world of rock than Zep did.  They were big, yes but I don't see them as game changers.  Maybe some kids wanted to play their guitar with a bow?
    I love Sabbath but vehemently disagree with this take. No band in that era is more influential than Zeppelin, on many levels.
    Dallas, TX (November 15, 2013)
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  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,760
    ZoSoTim said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    GB281198 said:
    Not much mention of Led Zeppelin but they had a huge influence on rock music. They changed the record industry as well as what live rock shows became.
    I think Sabbath had a bigger mark on the world of rock than Zep did.  They were big, yes but I don't see them as game changers.  Maybe some kids wanted to play their guitar with a bow?
    I love Sabbath but vehemently disagree with this take. No band in that era is more influential than Zeppelin, on many levels.
    Discounting personal biases, I would say, more influential from that era than Sabbath or Zep would be The Jimi Hendrix Experience.  
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • ZoSoTim
    ZoSoTim Posts: 1,315
    edited August 2022
    brianlux said:
    ZoSoTim said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    GB281198 said:
    Not much mention of Led Zeppelin but they had a huge influence on rock music. They changed the record industry as well as what live rock shows became.
    I think Sabbath had a bigger mark on the world of rock than Zep did.  They were big, yes but I don't see them as game changers.  Maybe some kids wanted to play their guitar with a bow?
    I love Sabbath but vehemently disagree with this take. No band in that era is more influential than Zeppelin, on many levels.
    Discounting personal biases, I would say, more influential from that era than Sabbath or Zep would be The Jimi Hendrix Experience.  
    Jimi died in 1970. Zeppelin's first album came out in 1969. There wasn't much overlap between the two. And if we are being technical the Experience were done in 1969 before Zep's first album was released. He had moved on to Band of Gypsys by then. If you're not familiar with the BOG material I would highly recommend it. It's amazing stuff.
    Post edited by ZoSoTim on
    Dallas, TX (November 15, 2013)
    Chicago 1 (August 20, 2016)
    Chicago 2 (August 22, 2016)
    Ft. Worth 1 (September 13, 2023)
    Ft. Worth 2 (September 15, 2023)
  • DewieCox
    DewieCox Posts: 11,432
    Don’t think I could get on board with a list without Beatles, Zeppelin and Floyd. When they weren’t the first or best to do something, they were often the chief purveyor. 

    Regarding women in rock, while it seems counterintuitive to say so, I think Cobain had a lot to do with the rise in their broader acceptance. You had to be fairly mainstream before him to gain traction but he cemented a broader acceptance of women heading down more experimental avenues. 
  • Loujoe
    Loujoe Posts: 11,956
    edited August 2022
    Sabbath>zeppelin. Plus sab didn't rip anyone's riffs as far as I know. I like zeppelin but when I got a howling wolf record and heard a song that zeppelin took from him (no credit given initially) it kind of rubbed me the wrong way. Whatever rock on.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,760
    edited August 2022
    ZoSoTim said:
    brianlux said:
    ZoSoTim said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    GB281198 said:
    Not much mention of Led Zeppelin but they had a huge influence on rock music. They changed the record industry as well as what live rock shows became.
    I think Sabbath had a bigger mark on the world of rock than Zep did.  They were big, yes but I don't see them as game changers.  Maybe some kids wanted to play their guitar with a bow?
    I love Sabbath but vehemently disagree with this take. No band in that era is more influential than Zeppelin, on many levels.
    Discounting personal biases, I would say, more influential from that era than Sabbath or Zep would be The Jimi Hendrix Experience.  
    Jimi died in 1970. Zeppelin's first album came out in 1969. There wasn't much overlap between the two. And if we are being technical the Experience were done in 1969 before Zep's first album was released. He had moved on to Band of Gypsys by then. If you're not familiar with the BOG material I would highly recommend it. It's amazing stuff.

    Zep started in August, 1968, the same year I saw Hendrix for the first time, so I think of them as being from the same era.  The Buddy Miles Express opened for Jimi and I like his own band better than I did the work he did with Band of Gypsys.   Other than "Machine Gun", I'm not real big on BOG.  In any case, yeah, I'm definitely familiar with all that, lol. 

    I also saw The Who in 1968 which, to my way of thinking anyway (which does not mean I'm some kind of authority), was the beginning of their peak years, 1960 to 1970.  I had never before nor since seen a band like them, with a guitar player who played like a drummer, a drummer who played like a guitar player, a bass player who played like a lead guitar player, and singer great singer and microphone acrobat to front them.   (Which is why I listed them earlier on.)
    Post edited by brianlux on
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • cutz
    cutz Posts: 12,319
    Band Of Gypsys was a GREAT Band which I like a lot. 

    It would've been interesting what they would've put out if they were able to be together for a few years.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,760
    Loujoe said:
    Sabbath>zeppelin. Plus sab didn't rip anyone's riffs as far as I know. I like zeppelin but when I got a howling wolf record and heard a song that zeppelin took from him (no credit given initially) it kind of rubbed me the wrong way. Whatever rock on.

    I was never a big Sabbath fan, but in their early days I was always kind of impressed with their fans.  They were people who I suspected knew something most of us didn't.  I think for me it was that Sabbath was a bit too dark. 
    But Tony Iommi became an inspiration for me later on after in 1975 I had an accident that shattered the tip of my left (fret board) hand's middle finger and almost lost that finger down to the first outer joint.  I went through a lot of pain to have what was left saved and eventually learned to keep playing guitar despite a somewhat mutilated finger.  Reading about Iommi's troubles that way was really inspiring.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,795
    JH6056 said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    JH6056 said:
    brianlux said:
    Am I the only one here who sees rock and rap/hip hop as being two distinct genres in music?
    They are distinct genres, but no question that rap has had serious impact on rock. From rock pop to heavy rock, rap has had an unmistakable influence on many bands. So in a conversation about which 5 artists had biggest impact on the rock genre, it is totally fair to discuss rap artists because of how much that music has affected so many genres, even dang country!

    And just to make @Get_Right happy, I'll hold the Beastie Boys up as a good example of the mix =) . Check out this song, it's impossible to say it's not a perfect fusion of rock and rap, even if you don't like the song itself...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdJ5e70Q8mw

    [Note the "proves my point perfectly" first subtitles "TENSE ANGRY MUSIC"  =) ]
    This is a rap group playing rock music and has no rap undertones...

    The style reminds me of 90's hardcore perfectly too. A lot of NY bands at this time sounded like this.

    I believe Blondie gave rapping a try in a song way back when too?
    I disagree that it's "rock music" only and has "no rap undertones", and would happily get into a discussion about this specific song, but further discussion of rap isn't welcome in this convo by the original poster so...  maybe we'll meet up at an east coast gig one day and have this debate in person  ;)
    Merkin Baller said:
    I would argue the Beastie Boys were pretty influential in changing both rock AND rap in the late '80s early '90s. 
    Run DMC and Aerosmith started it really and you can thank the producer Rick Rubin for that. The melding of rock/rap.  If the Beasties weren't on Def Jam and had Rick as a producer I am not sure how much rock would have been in there?  You think Public Enemy was going to sample Angel of Death without Ricks needling and that they were all on the same label?

    Rock/rap was akin to numetal, Korn, RATM.  They had the sounds and delivery.  Beastie Boys rock/hardcore songs are the furthest from rapping...  Sabotage is a great song and it isn't rap.


    Sorry Brian.  I am just passionate about music, lol!
  • Get_Right
    Get_Right Posts: 14,203
    Licensed to Ill was rock and rap and yes, Rick Rubin.  Before Aerosmith and Run DMC.  Now I sound like JH6056 LOL  :o
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,795
    ZoSoTim said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    GB281198 said:
    Not much mention of Led Zeppelin but they had a huge influence on rock music. They changed the record industry as well as what live rock shows became.
    I think Sabbath had a bigger mark on the world of rock than Zep did.  They were big, yes but I don't see them as game changers.  Maybe some kids wanted to play their guitar with a bow?
    I love Sabbath but vehemently disagree with this take. No band in that era is more influential than Zeppelin, on many levels.
    brianlux said:
    ZoSoTim said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    GB281198 said:
    Not much mention of Led Zeppelin but they had a huge influence on rock music. They changed the record industry as well as what live rock shows became.
    I think Sabbath had a bigger mark on the world of rock than Zep did.  They were big, yes but I don't see them as game changers.  Maybe some kids wanted to play their guitar with a bow?
    I love Sabbath but vehemently disagree with this take. No band in that era is more influential than Zeppelin, on many levels.
    Discounting personal biases, I would say, more influential from that era than Sabbath or Zep would be The Jimi Hendrix Experience.  
    For hard rock if you ever listen to interviews the same song was always mentioned.  War Pigs.  Sure everybody loves Zepp but there was something about Sabbath that really made people go nuts.
  • JH6056
    JH6056 Posts: 2,437
    Get_Right said:
    Licensed to Ill was rock and rap and yes, Rick Rubin.  Before Aerosmith and Run DMC.  Now I sound like JH6056 LOL  :o
    Geesh, you say that as if it's a bad thing...  
    ;)
  • darthvedder
    darthvedder Posts: 2,683
    edited August 2022
    Get_Right said:
    Licensed to Ill was rock and rap and yes, Rick Rubin.  Before Aerosmith and Run DMC.  Now I sound like JH6056 LOL  :o

    The King of Rock came out before Licensed to Ill.

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