This one's done.

Get_Right said:

JH6056 said:

Get_Right said:

Music in general or rock music?
The Beatles are just in a class by themselves. GOAT.
Hendrix changed the sound of rock n roll.
Sex Pistols introduced something entirely new.
Kraftwerk and Devo made music on synthesizers.
Beastie Boys took rap global and transformed the genre with the samples. They do not get enough credit.
Garth Brooks changed country music to appeal to the masses.
I have never seen a more seismic shift in music than when Nevermind came out. 
Probably missing other artists, maybe Sabbath for metal, REM or Talking Heads as all time great "indie" bands. 

While it's definitely true that the Beastie Boys were the first rap group that a LOT of people worldwide who were not otherwise listening to R&B and Soul heard, it's soooooo UNtrue that the Beastie Boys were THE GROUP who "transformed the genre with samples". Rap and Hip Hop from the time of their birth, Kool Herc was using samples in the 70s!! The use of samples for creating new music came way before the Beasties, and the Beasties were a PUNK band before they caught on to rap and figured out their part of that.

No question, the Beasties were incredibly talented, I was listening to "Paul's Boutique" the other day which has some amazing samples.  But there are so many other rap artists who are more innovative and more legendary in terms of how samples were/are used, the Beastie Boys don't get more credit for that because they did not give birth to it nor are they the best at it.  But they are damn good at it and I do love them.

I also saw Public Enemy open for the Beastie Boys on the Licensed to Ill tour... Unforgettable show, for so many reasons, but so glad I was there!

I agree others were using samples, but Paul's Boutique was something elevated. It was an entire record of meticulously blended multi layered samples and rapping. And agree the dust brothers deserve a TON of credit for the record.  

It's not just that "others were using samples", it's that if we're going to talk about which artists "changed music" or "changed rock", you said the Beastie Boys "transformed the genre with samples". That's just not true. The Dust Brothers added to the genre with their contributions, but they didn't use samples in any innovative way that makes them somehow a pioneer. They were just REALLY good at what they do.

Get_Right said:

JH6056 said:

Get_Right said:

JH6056 said:

Get_Right said:

Music in general or rock music?
The Beatles are just in a class by themselves. GOAT.
Hendrix changed the sound of rock n roll.
Sex Pistols introduced something entirely new.
Kraftwerk and Devo made music on synthesizers.
Beastie Boys took rap global and transformed the genre with the samples. They do not get enough credit.
Garth Brooks changed country music to appeal to the masses.
I have never seen a more seismic shift in music than when Nevermind came out. 
Probably missing other artists, maybe Sabbath for metal, REM or Talking Heads as all time great "indie" bands. 

While it's definitely true that the Beastie Boys were the first rap group that a LOT of people worldwide who were not otherwise listening to R&B and Soul heard, it's soooooo UNtrue that the Beastie Boys were THE GROUP who "transformed the genre with samples". Rap and Hip Hop from the time of their birth, Kool Herc was using samples in the 70s!! The use of samples for creating new music came way before the Beasties, and the Beasties were a PUNK band before they caught on to rap and figured out their part of that.

No question, the Beasties were incredibly talented, I was listening to "Paul's Boutique" the other day which has some amazing samples.  But there are so many other rap artists who are more innovative and more legendary in terms of how samples were/are used, the Beastie Boys don't get more credit for that because they did not give birth to it nor are they the best at it.  But they are damn good at it and I do love them.

I also saw Public Enemy open for the Beastie Boys on the Licensed to Ill tour... Unforgettable show, for so many reasons, but so glad I was there!

I agree others were using samples, but Paul's Boutique was something elevated. It was an entire record of meticulously blended multi layered samples and rapping. And agree the dust brothers deserve a TON of credit for the record.  

It's not just that "others were using samples", it's that if we're going to talk about which artists "changed music" or "changed rock", you said the Beastie Boys "transformed the genre with samples". That's just not true. The Dust Brothers added to the genre with their contributions, but they didn't use samples in any innovative way that makes them somehow a pioneer. They were just REALLY good at what they do.

Send me a song.

A Dust Brothers song? Or a song by who?

JH6056 said:

Get_Right said:

JH6056 said:

Get_Right said:

JH6056 said:

Get_Right said:

Music in general or rock music?
The Beatles are just in a class by themselves. GOAT.
Hendrix changed the sound of rock n roll.
Sex Pistols introduced something entirely new.
Kraftwerk and Devo made music on synthesizers.
Beastie Boys took rap global and transformed the genre with the samples. They do not get enough credit.
Garth Brooks changed country music to appeal to the masses.
I have never seen a more seismic shift in music than when Nevermind came out. 
Probably missing other artists, maybe Sabbath for metal, REM or Talking Heads as all time great "indie" bands. 

While it's definitely true that the Beastie Boys were the first rap group that a LOT of people worldwide who were not otherwise listening to R&B and Soul heard, it's soooooo UNtrue that the Beastie Boys were THE GROUP who "transformed the genre with samples". Rap and Hip Hop from the time of their birth, Kool Herc was using samples in the 70s!! The use of samples for creating new music came way before the Beasties, and the Beasties were a PUNK band before they caught on to rap and figured out their part of that.

No question, the Beasties were incredibly talented, I was listening to "Paul's Boutique" the other day which has some amazing samples.  But there are so many other rap artists who are more innovative and more legendary in terms of how samples were/are used, the Beastie Boys don't get more credit for that because they did not give birth to it nor are they the best at it.  But they are damn good at it and I do love them.

I also saw Public Enemy open for the Beastie Boys on the Licensed to Ill tour... Unforgettable show, for so many reasons, but so glad I was there!

I agree others were using samples, but Paul's Boutique was something elevated. It was an entire record of meticulously blended multi layered samples and rapping. And agree the dust brothers deserve a TON of credit for the record.  

It's not just that "others were using samples", it's that if we're going to talk about which artists "changed music" or "changed rock", you said the Beastie Boys "transformed the genre with samples". That's just not true. The Dust Brothers added to the genre with their contributions, but they didn't use samples in any innovative way that makes them somehow a pioneer. They were just REALLY good at what they do.

Send me a song.

A Dust Brothers song? Or a song by who?

Send me a song in support of your position.

brianlux said:

Though not necessarily in the top 5, another person who had a huge impact on rock music is Brian Eno (particularly his work with Robert Fripp as well as with Bowie and Talking Heads), as much for his production and recording techniques as for his song writing and incorporation of unusual elements.  He also developed a kind of early version of surround sound (which I've tried and it does work to some degree) which is illustrated on the back cover of Ambient 4: On Land.  I think most people familiar with Eno's work would agree Another Green World is Eno at his peak.
Eno is a true visionary.

For whatever reason I have this weird quirk that when I see/hear Brian Enos name I think of the band Endinos Earthworm.  They have zero to do w each other but I link them together...

Get_Right said:

JH6056 said:

Get_Right said:

JH6056 said:

Get_Right said:

JH6056 said:

Get_Right said:

Music in general or rock music?
The Beatles are just in a class by themselves. GOAT.
Hendrix changed the sound of rock n roll.
Sex Pistols introduced something entirely new.
Kraftwerk and Devo made music on synthesizers.
Beastie Boys took rap global and transformed the genre with the samples. They do not get enough credit.
Garth Brooks changed country music to appeal to the masses.
I have never seen a more seismic shift in music than when Nevermind came out. 
Probably missing other artists, maybe Sabbath for metal, REM or Talking Heads as all time great "indie" bands. 

While it's definitely true that the Beastie Boys were the first rap group that a LOT of people worldwide who were not otherwise listening to R&B and Soul heard, it's soooooo UNtrue that the Beastie Boys were THE GROUP who "transformed the genre with samples". Rap and Hip Hop from the time of their birth, Kool Herc was using samples in the 70s!! The use of samples for creating new music came way before the Beasties, and the Beasties were a PUNK band before they caught on to rap and figured out their part of that.

No question, the Beasties were incredibly talented, I was listening to "Paul's Boutique" the other day which has some amazing samples.  But there are so many other rap artists who are more innovative and more legendary in terms of how samples were/are used, the Beastie Boys don't get more credit for that because they did not give birth to it nor are they the best at it.  But they are damn good at it and I do love them.

I also saw Public Enemy open for the Beastie Boys on the Licensed to Ill tour... Unforgettable show, for so many reasons, but so glad I was there!

I agree others were using samples, but Paul's Boutique was something elevated. It was an entire record of meticulously blended multi layered samples and rapping. And agree the dust brothers deserve a TON of credit for the record.  

It's not just that "others were using samples", it's that if we're going to talk about which artists "changed music" or "changed rock", you said the Beastie Boys "transformed the genre with samples". That's just not true. The Dust Brothers added to the genre with their contributions, but they didn't use samples in any innovative way that makes them somehow a pioneer. They were just REALLY good at what they do.

Send me a song.

A Dust Brothers song? Or a song by who?

Send me a song in support of your position.

My position is that actual history is cool. Looking at things chronologically. The Beastie Boys did not "transform the genre with samples", because samples, originally in the form of "breaks", "transformed the genre" of urban music and later rock LONG before the Beastie Boys even decided they were a rap act and not a punk band.

I can simply send you any rap song before the Beastie's first release that features samples. You do know that there were an abundance of rap records featuring samples before the Beasties ever made one, yes?

I could post countless songs... but honestly I don't need to post a song to show actual documented recorded history, all you have to do is read these for starters:

https://www.thomann.de/blog/en/a-brief-history-of-sampling/

https://etmonline.org/stories/hiphophistory/#

So if you dispute that the genre that has come to be known as rap & hip hop, and urban music beyond that, and then rock eventually, was transformed by samples starting with Kool Herc in the 70s, (and before Kool Herc the true origins of samples were JAZZ music!), what can you point to to support your position that the Beasties should get the credit?  Because what I've said isn't a position, it's music history, which is chronological in nature, in case you aren't really down yet with the whole "history" angle...   

JH6056 said:

Get_Right said:

JH6056 said:

Get_Right said:

JH6056 said:

Get_Right said:

JH6056 said:

Get_Right said:

Music in general or rock music?
The Beatles are just in a class by themselves. GOAT.
Hendrix changed the sound of rock n roll.
Sex Pistols introduced something entirely new.
Kraftwerk and Devo made music on synthesizers.
Beastie Boys took rap global and transformed the genre with the samples. They do not get enough credit.
Garth Brooks changed country music to appeal to the masses.
I have never seen a more seismic shift in music than when Nevermind came out. 
Probably missing other artists, maybe Sabbath for metal, REM or Talking Heads as all time great "indie" bands. 

While it's definitely true that the Beastie Boys were the first rap group that a LOT of people worldwide who were not otherwise listening to R&B and Soul heard, it's soooooo UNtrue that the Beastie Boys were THE GROUP who "transformed the genre with samples". Rap and Hip Hop from the time of their birth, Kool Herc was using samples in the 70s!! The use of samples for creating new music came way before the Beasties, and the Beasties were a PUNK band before they caught on to rap and figured out their part of that.

No question, the Beasties were incredibly talented, I was listening to "Paul's Boutique" the other day which has some amazing samples.  But there are so many other rap artists who are more innovative and more legendary in terms of how samples were/are used, the Beastie Boys don't get more credit for that because they did not give birth to it nor are they the best at it.  But they are damn good at it and I do love them.

I also saw Public Enemy open for the Beastie Boys on the Licensed to Ill tour... Unforgettable show, for so many reasons, but so glad I was there!

I agree others were using samples, but Paul's Boutique was something elevated. It was an entire record of meticulously blended multi layered samples and rapping. And agree the dust brothers deserve a TON of credit for the record.  

It's not just that "others were using samples", it's that if we're going to talk about which artists "changed music" or "changed rock", you said the Beastie Boys "transformed the genre with samples". That's just not true. The Dust Brothers added to the genre with their contributions, but they didn't use samples in any innovative way that makes them somehow a pioneer. They were just REALLY good at what they do.

Send me a song.

A Dust Brothers song? Or a song by who?

Send me a song in support of your position.

My position is that actual history is cool. Looking at things chronologically. The Beastie Boys did not "transform the genre with samples", because samples, originally in the form of "breaks", "transformed the genre" of urban music and later rock LONG before the Beastie Boys even decided they were a rap act and not a punk band.

I can simply send you any rap song before the Beastie's first release that features samples. You do know that there were an abundance of rap records featuring samples before the Beasties ever made one, yes?

I could post countless songs... but honestly I don't need to post a song to show actual documented recorded history, all you have to do is read these for starters:

https://www.thomann.de/blog/en/a-brief-history-of-sampling/

https://etmonline.org/stories/hiphophistory/#

So if you dispute that the genre that has come to be known as rap & hip hop, and urban music beyond that, and then rock eventually, was transformed by samples starting with Kool Herc in the 70s, (and before Kool Herc the true origins of samples were JAZZ music!), what can you point to to support your position that the Beasties should get the credit?  Because what I've said isn't a position, it's music history, which is chronological in nature, in case you aren't really down yet with the whole "history" angle...   

Understood, and fair enough.  I did not dispute that sampling existing before the Beasties or what Djs were doing in the clubs, that clearly influenced them.  I am just not aware of an earlier, entire record that is built on multi layered samples the way Paul's Boutique is. Which of course does not mean one does not exist, it just means I do not know about it!   

brianlux said:

 "Sampling" thread, perhaps, lol.

Sorry about that, back to regularly scheduled programming.

brianlux said:

Am I the only one here who sees rock and rap/hip hop as being two distinct genres in music?

They are distinct genres, but no question that rap has had serious impact on rock. From rock pop to heavy rock, rap has had an unmistakable influence on many bands. So in a conversation about which 5 artists had biggest impact on the rock genre, it is totally fair to discuss rap artists because of how much that music has affected so many genres, even dang country!

And just to make @Get_Right happy, I'll hold the Beastie Boys up as a good example of the mix . Check out this song, it's impossible to say it's not a perfect fusion of rock and rap, even if you don't like the song itself...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdJ5e70Q8mw

[Note the "proves my point perfectly" first subtitles "TENSE ANGRY MUSIC"  ]

Not much mention of Led Zeppelin but they had a huge influence on rock music. They changed the record industry as well as what live rock shows became.