America's Gun Violence #2
Comments
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But you seem to be unable or unwilling to define “elitist,” particularly in a historical context as it relates to the 2A. Bill Gates is elitist. Someone making $15K or more is not. What’s your definition of elitist and their salary?tempo_n_groove said:
All I asked is if you wanted to make gun ownership elitist...Halifax2TheMax said:
I'm asking you what was the level of wealth required to own a firearm "back in the day" of the 2A, seeing how you think only the elitists owned them back then. Yes, in my belief, they were "wealthy." Where in the 2A does it say that firearms have to be affordable? Or that you can't tax them or the ammo? Someone on here thinks micro-stamping is out of the question because of the cost, to which I say up to $250 per gun is not to much of a price to pay to track guns used in crime when no weapon is found and potentially be able to hold straw purchasers "responsible" or "responsible" gun owners accountable when their firearms are used in crimes (half of firearms used in crimes that are recovered are stolen).tempo_n_groove said:
Wanting to have only the wealthy own firearms becomes a status thing where only the elite, rich can own them.Halifax2TheMax said:
I said "wealthy," not "elitist." Now you're changing it to "rich." What was considered "rich" back in the day? And how did they afford their firearms?tempo_n_groove said:
You're the one that said only rich had guns back in the day.Halifax2TheMax said:
You should pay a tax on your hobby to help offset the costs associated with said hobby.tempo_n_groove said:
So it should still be an elitest thing?Halifax2TheMax said:Back when the 2A was written, only wealthy people owned firearms. For you originalists out there.How “responsible” is a gun owner lacking in gainful employment that doesn’t support owning a gun? Guess we should arm the homeless?
The “elitists” were the “well regulated militia.” So the 2A is flexible as nowhere does it mention costs or having to be affordable. Love the hypocrisy. Life is full of choices.
The 2A has no language regarding cost of firearms or the ammo. So, the 2A is either flexible to the times or its not. You seem to be an originalists (no bans), which brings me back to how did 'Muricans get and keep their firearms when the 2A was written and how is it that they could afford them? Mass production didn't exist yet. What level of wealth made them "elitists?"09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Raskin nails it!
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Whenever you make something unattainable by taxing it to high heaven and only the wealthy can afford it I'd say that would be elitist.Halifax2TheMax said:
But you seem to be unable or unwilling to define “elitist,” particularly in a historical context as it relates to the 2A. Bill Gates is elitist. Someone making $15K or more is not. What’s your definition of elitist and their salary?tempo_n_groove said:
All I asked is if you wanted to make gun ownership elitist...Halifax2TheMax said:
I'm asking you what was the level of wealth required to own a firearm "back in the day" of the 2A, seeing how you think only the elitists owned them back then. Yes, in my belief, they were "wealthy." Where in the 2A does it say that firearms have to be affordable? Or that you can't tax them or the ammo? Someone on here thinks micro-stamping is out of the question because of the cost, to which I say up to $250 per gun is not to much of a price to pay to track guns used in crime when no weapon is found and potentially be able to hold straw purchasers "responsible" or "responsible" gun owners accountable when their firearms are used in crimes (half of firearms used in crimes that are recovered are stolen).tempo_n_groove said:
Wanting to have only the wealthy own firearms becomes a status thing where only the elite, rich can own them.Halifax2TheMax said:
I said "wealthy," not "elitist." Now you're changing it to "rich." What was considered "rich" back in the day? And how did they afford their firearms?tempo_n_groove said:
You're the one that said only rich had guns back in the day.Halifax2TheMax said:
You should pay a tax on your hobby to help offset the costs associated with said hobby.tempo_n_groove said:
So it should still be an elitest thing?Halifax2TheMax said:Back when the 2A was written, only wealthy people owned firearms. For you originalists out there.How “responsible” is a gun owner lacking in gainful employment that doesn’t support owning a gun? Guess we should arm the homeless?
The “elitists” were the “well regulated militia.” So the 2A is flexible as nowhere does it mention costs or having to be affordable. Love the hypocrisy. Life is full of choices.
The 2A has no language regarding cost of firearms or the ammo. So, the 2A is either flexible to the times or its not. You seem to be an originalists (no bans), which brings me back to how did 'Muricans get and keep their firearms when the 2A was written and how is it that they could afford them? Mass production didn't exist yet. What level of wealth made them "elitists?"0 -
In but one example, is adding $250 to the cost of a firearm for micro-stamping making it an object only “elitists” can afford?tempo_n_groove said:
Whenever you make something unattainable by taxing it to high heaven and only the wealthy can afford it I'd say that would be elitist.Halifax2TheMax said:
But you seem to be unable or unwilling to define “elitist,” particularly in a historical context as it relates to the 2A. Bill Gates is elitist. Someone making $15K or more is not. What’s your definition of elitist and their salary?tempo_n_groove said:
All I asked is if you wanted to make gun ownership elitist...Halifax2TheMax said:
I'm asking you what was the level of wealth required to own a firearm "back in the day" of the 2A, seeing how you think only the elitists owned them back then. Yes, in my belief, they were "wealthy." Where in the 2A does it say that firearms have to be affordable? Or that you can't tax them or the ammo? Someone on here thinks micro-stamping is out of the question because of the cost, to which I say up to $250 per gun is not to much of a price to pay to track guns used in crime when no weapon is found and potentially be able to hold straw purchasers "responsible" or "responsible" gun owners accountable when their firearms are used in crimes (half of firearms used in crimes that are recovered are stolen).tempo_n_groove said:
Wanting to have only the wealthy own firearms becomes a status thing where only the elite, rich can own them.Halifax2TheMax said:
I said "wealthy," not "elitist." Now you're changing it to "rich." What was considered "rich" back in the day? And how did they afford their firearms?tempo_n_groove said:
You're the one that said only rich had guns back in the day.Halifax2TheMax said:
You should pay a tax on your hobby to help offset the costs associated with said hobby.tempo_n_groove said:
So it should still be an elitest thing?Halifax2TheMax said:Back when the 2A was written, only wealthy people owned firearms. For you originalists out there.How “responsible” is a gun owner lacking in gainful employment that doesn’t support owning a gun? Guess we should arm the homeless?
The “elitists” were the “well regulated militia.” So the 2A is flexible as nowhere does it mention costs or having to be affordable. Love the hypocrisy. Life is full of choices.
The 2A has no language regarding cost of firearms or the ammo. So, the 2A is either flexible to the times or its not. You seem to be an originalists (no bans), which brings me back to how did 'Muricans get and keep their firearms when the 2A was written and how is it that they could afford them? Mass production didn't exist yet. What level of wealth made them "elitists?"09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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We can make the argument that gun ownership is elitist now. Guns are expensive. It's like a guy making $20K/year driving a $50K truck. He can't afford the truck either but he finds a way.tempo_n_groove said:
Whenever you make something unattainable by taxing it to high heaven and only the wealthy can afford it I'd say that would be elitist.Halifax2TheMax said:
But you seem to be unable or unwilling to define “elitist,” particularly in a historical context as it relates to the 2A. Bill Gates is elitist. Someone making $15K or more is not. What’s your definition of elitist and their salary?tempo_n_groove said:
All I asked is if you wanted to make gun ownership elitist...Halifax2TheMax said:
I'm asking you what was the level of wealth required to own a firearm "back in the day" of the 2A, seeing how you think only the elitists owned them back then. Yes, in my belief, they were "wealthy." Where in the 2A does it say that firearms have to be affordable? Or that you can't tax them or the ammo? Someone on here thinks micro-stamping is out of the question because of the cost, to which I say up to $250 per gun is not to much of a price to pay to track guns used in crime when no weapon is found and potentially be able to hold straw purchasers "responsible" or "responsible" gun owners accountable when their firearms are used in crimes (half of firearms used in crimes that are recovered are stolen).tempo_n_groove said:
Wanting to have only the wealthy own firearms becomes a status thing where only the elite, rich can own them.Halifax2TheMax said:
I said "wealthy," not "elitist." Now you're changing it to "rich." What was considered "rich" back in the day? And how did they afford their firearms?tempo_n_groove said:
You're the one that said only rich had guns back in the day.Halifax2TheMax said:
You should pay a tax on your hobby to help offset the costs associated with said hobby.tempo_n_groove said:
So it should still be an elitest thing?Halifax2TheMax said:Back when the 2A was written, only wealthy people owned firearms. For you originalists out there.How “responsible” is a gun owner lacking in gainful employment that doesn’t support owning a gun? Guess we should arm the homeless?
The “elitists” were the “well regulated militia.” So the 2A is flexible as nowhere does it mention costs or having to be affordable. Love the hypocrisy. Life is full of choices.
The 2A has no language regarding cost of firearms or the ammo. So, the 2A is either flexible to the times or its not. You seem to be an originalists (no bans), which brings me back to how did 'Muricans get and keep their firearms when the 2A was written and how is it that they could afford them? Mass production didn't exist yet. What level of wealth made them "elitists?"Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
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Since a few of these people buy the gun pretty close to when they use it on kids and grandmas....they'd just charge it to their credit cards as they aren't going to pay anyhow.Gern Blansten said:
We can make the argument that gun ownership is elitist now. Guns are expensive. It's like a guy making $20K/year driving a $50K truck. He can't afford the truck either but he finds a way.tempo_n_groove said:
Whenever you make something unattainable by taxing it to high heaven and only the wealthy can afford it I'd say that would be elitist.Halifax2TheMax said:
But you seem to be unable or unwilling to define “elitist,” particularly in a historical context as it relates to the 2A. Bill Gates is elitist. Someone making $15K or more is not. What’s your definition of elitist and their salary?tempo_n_groove said:
All I asked is if you wanted to make gun ownership elitist...Halifax2TheMax said:
I'm asking you what was the level of wealth required to own a firearm "back in the day" of the 2A, seeing how you think only the elitists owned them back then. Yes, in my belief, they were "wealthy." Where in the 2A does it say that firearms have to be affordable? Or that you can't tax them or the ammo? Someone on here thinks micro-stamping is out of the question because of the cost, to which I say up to $250 per gun is not to much of a price to pay to track guns used in crime when no weapon is found and potentially be able to hold straw purchasers "responsible" or "responsible" gun owners accountable when their firearms are used in crimes (half of firearms used in crimes that are recovered are stolen).tempo_n_groove said:
Wanting to have only the wealthy own firearms becomes a status thing where only the elite, rich can own them.Halifax2TheMax said:
I said "wealthy," not "elitist." Now you're changing it to "rich." What was considered "rich" back in the day? And how did they afford their firearms?tempo_n_groove said:
You're the one that said only rich had guns back in the day.Halifax2TheMax said:
You should pay a tax on your hobby to help offset the costs associated with said hobby.tempo_n_groove said:
So it should still be an elitest thing?Halifax2TheMax said:Back when the 2A was written, only wealthy people owned firearms. For you originalists out there.How “responsible” is a gun owner lacking in gainful employment that doesn’t support owning a gun? Guess we should arm the homeless?
The “elitists” were the “well regulated militia.” So the 2A is flexible as nowhere does it mention costs or having to be affordable. Love the hypocrisy. Life is full of choices.
The 2A has no language regarding cost of firearms or the ammo. So, the 2A is either flexible to the times or its not. You seem to be an originalists (no bans), which brings me back to how did 'Muricans get and keep their firearms when the 2A was written and how is it that they could afford them? Mass production didn't exist yet. What level of wealth made them "elitists?"hippiemom = goodness0 -
make ammunition illegal. nothing in the constitution about ammunition.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0
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I don’t think guns are expensive. Quite the contrary. That’s why I’m pressing but can’t seem to get an answer. Seems the responses of late are all smoke and mirrors or paper tigers. No rational explanation and certainly no alternatives offered. It’s why nothing will change and it’ll happen again. This country is so fucked and this issue, kids being decapitated with assault rifles in their classroom is but one small example of the larger problem with firearms in ‘Murica.Gern Blansten said:
We can make the argument that gun ownership is elitist now. Guns are expensive. It's like a guy making $20K/year driving a $50K truck. He can't afford the truck either but he finds a way.tempo_n_groove said:
Whenever you make something unattainable by taxing it to high heaven and only the wealthy can afford it I'd say that would be elitist.Halifax2TheMax said:
But you seem to be unable or unwilling to define “elitist,” particularly in a historical context as it relates to the 2A. Bill Gates is elitist. Someone making $15K or more is not. What’s your definition of elitist and their salary?tempo_n_groove said:
All I asked is if you wanted to make gun ownership elitist...Halifax2TheMax said:
I'm asking you what was the level of wealth required to own a firearm "back in the day" of the 2A, seeing how you think only the elitists owned them back then. Yes, in my belief, they were "wealthy." Where in the 2A does it say that firearms have to be affordable? Or that you can't tax them or the ammo? Someone on here thinks micro-stamping is out of the question because of the cost, to which I say up to $250 per gun is not to much of a price to pay to track guns used in crime when no weapon is found and potentially be able to hold straw purchasers "responsible" or "responsible" gun owners accountable when their firearms are used in crimes (half of firearms used in crimes that are recovered are stolen).tempo_n_groove said:
Wanting to have only the wealthy own firearms becomes a status thing where only the elite, rich can own them.Halifax2TheMax said:
I said "wealthy," not "elitist." Now you're changing it to "rich." What was considered "rich" back in the day? And how did they afford their firearms?tempo_n_groove said:
You're the one that said only rich had guns back in the day.Halifax2TheMax said:
You should pay a tax on your hobby to help offset the costs associated with said hobby.tempo_n_groove said:
So it should still be an elitest thing?Halifax2TheMax said:Back when the 2A was written, only wealthy people owned firearms. For you originalists out there.How “responsible” is a gun owner lacking in gainful employment that doesn’t support owning a gun? Guess we should arm the homeless?
The “elitists” were the “well regulated militia.” So the 2A is flexible as nowhere does it mention costs or having to be affordable. Love the hypocrisy. Life is full of choices.
The 2A has no language regarding cost of firearms or the ammo. So, the 2A is either flexible to the times or its not. You seem to be an originalists (no bans), which brings me back to how did 'Muricans get and keep their firearms when the 2A was written and how is it that they could afford them? Mass production didn't exist yet. What level of wealth made them "elitists?"
Oh, and Faceturd gives you 10 whoopsies before blocking you for selling your gun on their platform.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Many a gun would have that firing bin ground down. It's a good idea but not in the grand scheme of things.Halifax2TheMax said:
In but one example, is adding $250 to the cost of a firearm for micro-stamping making it an object only “elitists” can afford?tempo_n_groove said:
Whenever you make something unattainable by taxing it to high heaven and only the wealthy can afford it I'd say that would be elitist.Halifax2TheMax said:
But you seem to be unable or unwilling to define “elitist,” particularly in a historical context as it relates to the 2A. Bill Gates is elitist. Someone making $15K or more is not. What’s your definition of elitist and their salary?tempo_n_groove said:
All I asked is if you wanted to make gun ownership elitist...Halifax2TheMax said:
I'm asking you what was the level of wealth required to own a firearm "back in the day" of the 2A, seeing how you think only the elitists owned them back then. Yes, in my belief, they were "wealthy." Where in the 2A does it say that firearms have to be affordable? Or that you can't tax them or the ammo? Someone on here thinks micro-stamping is out of the question because of the cost, to which I say up to $250 per gun is not to much of a price to pay to track guns used in crime when no weapon is found and potentially be able to hold straw purchasers "responsible" or "responsible" gun owners accountable when their firearms are used in crimes (half of firearms used in crimes that are recovered are stolen).tempo_n_groove said:
Wanting to have only the wealthy own firearms becomes a status thing where only the elite, rich can own them.Halifax2TheMax said:
I said "wealthy," not "elitist." Now you're changing it to "rich." What was considered "rich" back in the day? And how did they afford their firearms?tempo_n_groove said:
You're the one that said only rich had guns back in the day.Halifax2TheMax said:
You should pay a tax on your hobby to help offset the costs associated with said hobby.tempo_n_groove said:
So it should still be an elitest thing?Halifax2TheMax said:Back when the 2A was written, only wealthy people owned firearms. For you originalists out there.How “responsible” is a gun owner lacking in gainful employment that doesn’t support owning a gun? Guess we should arm the homeless?
The “elitists” were the “well regulated militia.” So the 2A is flexible as nowhere does it mention costs or having to be affordable. Love the hypocrisy. Life is full of choices.
The 2A has no language regarding cost of firearms or the ammo. So, the 2A is either flexible to the times or its not. You seem to be an originalists (no bans), which brings me back to how did 'Muricans get and keep their firearms when the 2A was written and how is it that they could afford them? Mass production didn't exist yet. What level of wealth made them "elitists?"0 -
You go off on tangents...Halifax2TheMax said:
I don’t think guns are expensive. Quite the contrary. That’s why I’m pressing but can’t seem to get an answer. Seems the responses of late are all smoke and mirrors or paper tigers. No rational explanation and certainly no alternatives offered. It’s why nothing will change and it’ll happen again. This country is so fucked and this issue, kids being decapitated with assault rifles in their classroom is but one small example of the larger problem with firearms in ‘Murica.Gern Blansten said:
We can make the argument that gun ownership is elitist now. Guns are expensive. It's like a guy making $20K/year driving a $50K truck. He can't afford the truck either but he finds a way.tempo_n_groove said:
Whenever you make something unattainable by taxing it to high heaven and only the wealthy can afford it I'd say that would be elitist.Halifax2TheMax said:
But you seem to be unable or unwilling to define “elitist,” particularly in a historical context as it relates to the 2A. Bill Gates is elitist. Someone making $15K or more is not. What’s your definition of elitist and their salary?tempo_n_groove said:
All I asked is if you wanted to make gun ownership elitist...Halifax2TheMax said:
I'm asking you what was the level of wealth required to own a firearm "back in the day" of the 2A, seeing how you think only the elitists owned them back then. Yes, in my belief, they were "wealthy." Where in the 2A does it say that firearms have to be affordable? Or that you can't tax them or the ammo? Someone on here thinks micro-stamping is out of the question because of the cost, to which I say up to $250 per gun is not to much of a price to pay to track guns used in crime when no weapon is found and potentially be able to hold straw purchasers "responsible" or "responsible" gun owners accountable when their firearms are used in crimes (half of firearms used in crimes that are recovered are stolen).tempo_n_groove said:
Wanting to have only the wealthy own firearms becomes a status thing where only the elite, rich can own them.Halifax2TheMax said:
I said "wealthy," not "elitist." Now you're changing it to "rich." What was considered "rich" back in the day? And how did they afford their firearms?tempo_n_groove said:
You're the one that said only rich had guns back in the day.Halifax2TheMax said:
You should pay a tax on your hobby to help offset the costs associated with said hobby.tempo_n_groove said:
So it should still be an elitest thing?Halifax2TheMax said:Back when the 2A was written, only wealthy people owned firearms. For you originalists out there.How “responsible” is a gun owner lacking in gainful employment that doesn’t support owning a gun? Guess we should arm the homeless?
The “elitists” were the “well regulated militia.” So the 2A is flexible as nowhere does it mention costs or having to be affordable. Love the hypocrisy. Life is full of choices.
The 2A has no language regarding cost of firearms or the ammo. So, the 2A is either flexible to the times or its not. You seem to be an originalists (no bans), which brings me back to how did 'Muricans get and keep their firearms when the 2A was written and how is it that they could afford them? Mass production didn't exist yet. What level of wealth made them "elitists?"
Oh, and Faceturd gives you 10 whoopsies before blocking you for selling your gun on their platform.
A few of us have offered solutions many a time but like you said, this is why nothing changes.0 -
Not easy to do for a novice, it’s one more thing to stem the illicit market and it’s not just the firing pin that can be stamped to leave a trace.tempo_n_groove said:
Many a gun would have that firing bin ground down. It's a good idea but not in the grand scheme of things.Halifax2TheMax said:
In but one example, is adding $250 to the cost of a firearm for micro-stamping making it an object only “elitists” can afford?tempo_n_groove said:
Whenever you make something unattainable by taxing it to high heaven and only the wealthy can afford it I'd say that would be elitist.Halifax2TheMax said:
But you seem to be unable or unwilling to define “elitist,” particularly in a historical context as it relates to the 2A. Bill Gates is elitist. Someone making $15K or more is not. What’s your definition of elitist and their salary?tempo_n_groove said:
All I asked is if you wanted to make gun ownership elitist...Halifax2TheMax said:
I'm asking you what was the level of wealth required to own a firearm "back in the day" of the 2A, seeing how you think only the elitists owned them back then. Yes, in my belief, they were "wealthy." Where in the 2A does it say that firearms have to be affordable? Or that you can't tax them or the ammo? Someone on here thinks micro-stamping is out of the question because of the cost, to which I say up to $250 per gun is not to much of a price to pay to track guns used in crime when no weapon is found and potentially be able to hold straw purchasers "responsible" or "responsible" gun owners accountable when their firearms are used in crimes (half of firearms used in crimes that are recovered are stolen).tempo_n_groove said:
Wanting to have only the wealthy own firearms becomes a status thing where only the elite, rich can own them.Halifax2TheMax said:
I said "wealthy," not "elitist." Now you're changing it to "rich." What was considered "rich" back in the day? And how did they afford their firearms?tempo_n_groove said:
You're the one that said only rich had guns back in the day.Halifax2TheMax said:
You should pay a tax on your hobby to help offset the costs associated with said hobby.tempo_n_groove said:
So it should still be an elitest thing?Halifax2TheMax said:Back when the 2A was written, only wealthy people owned firearms. For you originalists out there.How “responsible” is a gun owner lacking in gainful employment that doesn’t support owning a gun? Guess we should arm the homeless?
The “elitists” were the “well regulated militia.” So the 2A is flexible as nowhere does it mention costs or having to be affordable. Love the hypocrisy. Life is full of choices.
The 2A has no language regarding cost of firearms or the ammo. So, the 2A is either flexible to the times or its not. You seem to be an originalists (no bans), which brings me back to how did 'Muricans get and keep their firearms when the 2A was written and how is it that they could afford them? Mass production didn't exist yet. What level of wealth made them "elitists?"
How many parts of your car have the vin number or a sequence of letters or numbers that if found, can trace back to the original point of sale, who owned it and the chain of ownership? All because of hit and runs.
Nothing can be done. Nothing. Any excuse. Any.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
Every gun leaves a signature as it is.Halifax2TheMax said:
Not easy to do for a novice, it’s one more thing to stem the illicit market and it’s not just the firing pin that can be stamped to leave a trace.tempo_n_groove said:
Many a gun would have that firing bin ground down. It's a good idea but not in the grand scheme of things.Halifax2TheMax said:
In but one example, is adding $250 to the cost of a firearm for micro-stamping making it an object only “elitists” can afford?tempo_n_groove said:
Whenever you make something unattainable by taxing it to high heaven and only the wealthy can afford it I'd say that would be elitist.Halifax2TheMax said:
But you seem to be unable or unwilling to define “elitist,” particularly in a historical context as it relates to the 2A. Bill Gates is elitist. Someone making $15K or more is not. What’s your definition of elitist and their salary?tempo_n_groove said:
All I asked is if you wanted to make gun ownership elitist...Halifax2TheMax said:
I'm asking you what was the level of wealth required to own a firearm "back in the day" of the 2A, seeing how you think only the elitists owned them back then. Yes, in my belief, they were "wealthy." Where in the 2A does it say that firearms have to be affordable? Or that you can't tax them or the ammo? Someone on here thinks micro-stamping is out of the question because of the cost, to which I say up to $250 per gun is not to much of a price to pay to track guns used in crime when no weapon is found and potentially be able to hold straw purchasers "responsible" or "responsible" gun owners accountable when their firearms are used in crimes (half of firearms used in crimes that are recovered are stolen).tempo_n_groove said:
Wanting to have only the wealthy own firearms becomes a status thing where only the elite, rich can own them.Halifax2TheMax said:
I said "wealthy," not "elitist." Now you're changing it to "rich." What was considered "rich" back in the day? And how did they afford their firearms?tempo_n_groove said:
You're the one that said only rich had guns back in the day.Halifax2TheMax said:
You should pay a tax on your hobby to help offset the costs associated with said hobby.tempo_n_groove said:
So it should still be an elitest thing?Halifax2TheMax said:Back when the 2A was written, only wealthy people owned firearms. For you originalists out there.How “responsible” is a gun owner lacking in gainful employment that doesn’t support owning a gun? Guess we should arm the homeless?
The “elitists” were the “well regulated militia.” So the 2A is flexible as nowhere does it mention costs or having to be affordable. Love the hypocrisy. Life is full of choices.
The 2A has no language regarding cost of firearms or the ammo. So, the 2A is either flexible to the times or its not. You seem to be an originalists (no bans), which brings me back to how did 'Muricans get and keep their firearms when the 2A was written and how is it that they could afford them? Mass production didn't exist yet. What level of wealth made them "elitists?"
How many parts of your car have the vin number or a sequence of letters or numbers that if found, can trace back to the original point of sale, who owned it and the chain of ownership? All because of hit and runs.
Nothing can be done. Nothing. Any excuse. Any.
We've offered other solutions.
If microstamping made you feel better then I say go for it.0 -
Smellyman said:I use prayers.sometimes thoughts.Haha!And locked doors, I presume?HughFreakingDillon said:make ammunition illegal. nothing in the constitution about ammunition.
Gun owners are bitching and moaning about ammo shortages, high cost. Imagine the outrage if ammo became illegal! Not that I'm against the idea, but it would drive supplies underground and create a whole new kind of mafia or whatever.The only sensible solution is to get people to stop being so hateful and paranoid and angry. But sadly, we're going the opposite direction of that. My own solution is to avoid people as much as possible I've become quite the hermit these days."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
I'm not sure you understand the technology or the reason behind it but I'm not the one that needs convincing. Its the "responsible" gun owners that do. When you say "we," who are the we that you refer to as having offered other solutions? I haven't read much of any rational solutions from the pro-gun crowd on here. Wish I could create a 20 question poll with yes/no/maybe/don't know options.tempo_n_groove said:
Every gun leaves a signature as it is.Halifax2TheMax said:
Not easy to do for a novice, it’s one more thing to stem the illicit market and it’s not just the firing pin that can be stamped to leave a trace.tempo_n_groove said:
Many a gun would have that firing bin ground down. It's a good idea but not in the grand scheme of things.Halifax2TheMax said:
In but one example, is adding $250 to the cost of a firearm for micro-stamping making it an object only “elitists” can afford?tempo_n_groove said:
Whenever you make something unattainable by taxing it to high heaven and only the wealthy can afford it I'd say that would be elitist.Halifax2TheMax said:
But you seem to be unable or unwilling to define “elitist,” particularly in a historical context as it relates to the 2A. Bill Gates is elitist. Someone making $15K or more is not. What’s your definition of elitist and their salary?tempo_n_groove said:
All I asked is if you wanted to make gun ownership elitist...Halifax2TheMax said:
I'm asking you what was the level of wealth required to own a firearm "back in the day" of the 2A, seeing how you think only the elitists owned them back then. Yes, in my belief, they were "wealthy." Where in the 2A does it say that firearms have to be affordable? Or that you can't tax them or the ammo? Someone on here thinks micro-stamping is out of the question because of the cost, to which I say up to $250 per gun is not to much of a price to pay to track guns used in crime when no weapon is found and potentially be able to hold straw purchasers "responsible" or "responsible" gun owners accountable when their firearms are used in crimes (half of firearms used in crimes that are recovered are stolen).tempo_n_groove said:
Wanting to have only the wealthy own firearms becomes a status thing where only the elite, rich can own them.Halifax2TheMax said:
I said "wealthy," not "elitist." Now you're changing it to "rich." What was considered "rich" back in the day? And how did they afford their firearms?tempo_n_groove said:
You're the one that said only rich had guns back in the day.Halifax2TheMax said:
You should pay a tax on your hobby to help offset the costs associated with said hobby.tempo_n_groove said:
So it should still be an elitest thing?Halifax2TheMax said:Back when the 2A was written, only wealthy people owned firearms. For you originalists out there.How “responsible” is a gun owner lacking in gainful employment that doesn’t support owning a gun? Guess we should arm the homeless?
The “elitists” were the “well regulated militia.” So the 2A is flexible as nowhere does it mention costs or having to be affordable. Love the hypocrisy. Life is full of choices.
The 2A has no language regarding cost of firearms or the ammo. So, the 2A is either flexible to the times or its not. You seem to be an originalists (no bans), which brings me back to how did 'Muricans get and keep their firearms when the 2A was written and how is it that they could afford them? Mass production didn't exist yet. What level of wealth made them "elitists?"
How many parts of your car have the vin number or a sequence of letters or numbers that if found, can trace back to the original point of sale, who owned it and the chain of ownership? All because of hit and runs.
Nothing can be done. Nothing. Any excuse. Any.
We've offered other solutions.
If microstamping made you feel better then I say go for it.
As for the signature? I agree, the size and shape of the entrance and exit wound.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
true. when both politicians and the media profit off division, there really isn't much hope until everyone wakes up.brianlux said:Smellyman said:I use prayers.sometimes thoughts.Haha!And locked doors, I presume?HughFreakingDillon said:make ammunition illegal. nothing in the constitution about ammunition.
Gun owners are bitching and moaning about ammo shortages, high cost. Imagine the outrage if ammo became illegal! Not that I'm against the idea, but it would drive supplies underground and create a whole new kind of mafia or whatever.The only sensible solution is to get people to stop being so hateful and paranoid and angry. But sadly, we're going the opposite direction of that. My own solution is to avoid people as much as possible I've become quite the hermit these days.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
Again, we have offered solutions, not what you like and you said NO, so we move on.Halifax2TheMax said:
I'm not sure you understand the technology or the reason behind it but I'm not the one that needs convincing. Its the "responsible" gun owners that do. When you say "we," who are the we that you refer to as having offered other solutions? I haven't read much of any rational solutions from the pro-gun crowd on here. Wish I could create a 20 question poll with yes/no/maybe/don't know options.tempo_n_groove said:
Every gun leaves a signature as it is.Halifax2TheMax said:
Not easy to do for a novice, it’s one more thing to stem the illicit market and it’s not just the firing pin that can be stamped to leave a trace.tempo_n_groove said:
Many a gun would have that firing bin ground down. It's a good idea but not in the grand scheme of things.Halifax2TheMax said:
In but one example, is adding $250 to the cost of a firearm for micro-stamping making it an object only “elitists” can afford?tempo_n_groove said:
Whenever you make something unattainable by taxing it to high heaven and only the wealthy can afford it I'd say that would be elitist.Halifax2TheMax said:
But you seem to be unable or unwilling to define “elitist,” particularly in a historical context as it relates to the 2A. Bill Gates is elitist. Someone making $15K or more is not. What’s your definition of elitist and their salary?tempo_n_groove said:
All I asked is if you wanted to make gun ownership elitist...Halifax2TheMax said:
I'm asking you what was the level of wealth required to own a firearm "back in the day" of the 2A, seeing how you think only the elitists owned them back then. Yes, in my belief, they were "wealthy." Where in the 2A does it say that firearms have to be affordable? Or that you can't tax them or the ammo? Someone on here thinks micro-stamping is out of the question because of the cost, to which I say up to $250 per gun is not to much of a price to pay to track guns used in crime when no weapon is found and potentially be able to hold straw purchasers "responsible" or "responsible" gun owners accountable when their firearms are used in crimes (half of firearms used in crimes that are recovered are stolen).tempo_n_groove said:
Wanting to have only the wealthy own firearms becomes a status thing where only the elite, rich can own them.Halifax2TheMax said:
I said "wealthy," not "elitist." Now you're changing it to "rich." What was considered "rich" back in the day? And how did they afford their firearms?tempo_n_groove said:
You're the one that said only rich had guns back in the day.Halifax2TheMax said:
You should pay a tax on your hobby to help offset the costs associated with said hobby.tempo_n_groove said:
So it should still be an elitest thing?Halifax2TheMax said:Back when the 2A was written, only wealthy people owned firearms. For you originalists out there.How “responsible” is a gun owner lacking in gainful employment that doesn’t support owning a gun? Guess we should arm the homeless?
The “elitists” were the “well regulated militia.” So the 2A is flexible as nowhere does it mention costs or having to be affordable. Love the hypocrisy. Life is full of choices.
The 2A has no language regarding cost of firearms or the ammo. So, the 2A is either flexible to the times or its not. You seem to be an originalists (no bans), which brings me back to how did 'Muricans get and keep their firearms when the 2A was written and how is it that they could afford them? Mass production didn't exist yet. What level of wealth made them "elitists?"
How many parts of your car have the vin number or a sequence of letters or numbers that if found, can trace back to the original point of sale, who owned it and the chain of ownership? All because of hit and runs.
Nothing can be done. Nothing. Any excuse. Any.
We've offered other solutions.
If microstamping made you feel better then I say go for it.
As for the signature? I agree, the size and shape of the entrance and exit wound.
Every guns firing pin and barreling has unique signature marking already, some states require that you register these rifling's when you purchase your gun and some do not. Needless to say they already have a signature.
I think the microstamping looks great on paper.
I'd go after the 21yo purchasing and owning, red flag laws, holding owners responsible for unlocked guns and a waiting list.0 -
And Maryland, come on down! You may be the next contestant on Lax Gun Laws Lead to A Mass Shooting! Which will it be? Door #1, a screen door? Door #2, a glass door or Door #3, a three foot thick, reinforced steel door with ballistic plating with vertical and horizontal locking mechanisms?
09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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i read a few days ago that there was a potential bill that would have the tax rate for ammo for weapons like the ar-15 be 1000%. I can get behind that. you want to shoot up a place, you better run up your credit card first."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
Like that would stop them? Credit card debt don’t mean shit when you’re dead or in jail.gimmesometruth27 said:i read a few days ago that there was a potential bill that would have the tax rate for ammo for weapons like the ar-15 be 1000%. I can get behind that. you want to shoot up a place, you better run up your credit card first.0 -
it would stop the teenage shooters, who are doing most of the school shootings. because they would not have a credit card, and a parent would probably think twice about spending so much money on ammo without asking some serious questions.nicknyr15 said:
Like that would stop them? Credit card debt don’t mean shit when you’re dead or in jail.gimmesometruth27 said:i read a few days ago that there was a potential bill that would have the tax rate for ammo for weapons like the ar-15 be 1000%. I can get behind that. you want to shoot up a place, you better run up your credit card first."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0
This discussion has been closed.
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