America's Gun Violence #2

13738404243115

Comments

  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,482
    edited May 2022
    static111 said:
    I don't own a gun, nor does my wife nor my 10 year old daughter.  I'm sure we are in the minority.  At 40 having lived in some really rough neighborhoods in my younger days and never having needed a gun or having been so afraid I would justify getting one, I feel the best thing to do is go with what works which is not owning a gun.
    You can make choices for yourself, as an adult...but your ten-year-old child doesn't have a gun? What kind of parents are you? You're lucky I'm not a mandated reporter or Child Protection would be on their way.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
    2013 Wrigley     2014 St. Paul     2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley     2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley     2021 Asbury Park     2022 St Louis     2023 Austin, Austin
    2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 9,697
    My 3rd grader and kindergartener have active shooter drills. They are told to turn the lights off and hide under your desk.

    im the one who told them no. You get out. 

    It’s a terrible thought to have but I’d rather they not get cornered inside a classroom and take their chances running down the hall 
    What schools teach change every couple years. Was it Parkland where they pulled a fire alarm and shot kids as they left the building? After something like that they say hide until you know it’s clear. Then something like this happens and they’ll go back to saying get out if you can.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,879
    I went over this previously too, all of it...  sorry.
    Your not sorry that you’re not willing to give up one type of firearm because you believe in a myth, on so many different levels, and that’s why nothing will change.

    Here’s a thought, us firearm safety advocates have compromised, have reached across the aisle and have not asked for anything that a majority of Americans want. What have we gotten for our effort? What has changed? Nothing. We’re exhausted because people like you believe in a myth. Not facts. Not reason. Not reality. You believe in a myth. And it’s time you compromise. For a change.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited May 2022
    OnWis97 said:
    You can make choices for yourself, as an adult...but your ten-year-old child doesn't have a gun? What kind of parents are you? You're lucky I'm not a mandated reporter or Child Protection would be on their way.
    The majority of people I’m aware of don’t secure their guns.  Having a gun in the house is by default, the ten year old’s gun. I’ve been in houses before with guns loose on counters etc 

    there is no law I’m aware of that deals with gun storage. There should be 

    in 21 states kids 12 or younger can hunt alone, literally by themselves. They aren’t old enough to drive there but you can drop them off and leave them with their gun. So a ten year old with a gun is absolutely nothing CPS cares about . In Texas you have to be 9
     

    If you were born on or after Sept. 2, 1971, and you are:

    • Under 9 years of age: You must be accompanied. Accompanied means: By a person (resident or non-resident) who is at least 17, who is licensed to hunt in Texas, who has passed hunter education or is exempt (born before Sept. 2, 1971), and you must be within normal voice control.
    • Age 9 through 16: You must successfully complete a hunter education course or be accompanied.
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,401
    "i have come here to think and pray. and i am all out of thoughts."

    -- all republicans after a mass shooting
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,153
    edited May 2022

    Are you following this thread?  at least 5 people have been saying that.  
    Here ya go
    https://news.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/268340/analyzing-surveys-banning-assault-weapons.aspx
    Yes, at least.  I am one of them.
    I used to say this:  "A lot of us are not talking about banning guns all together.  What we want is a ban on assault rifles and much more rigid background checks."
    But a lot of us (me included) are sick to death of asking the same thing year after year for decades and getting jack shit.  We're also getting sick to death of reading about mass shootings.  And it's only happened once, but once was all it took for me to be sick to death of hearing about a friend killed by a stray bullet from some wacko out there.
    So now I say this:  "Ban all guns except for use by military and police."  A little stringent a demand?  Maybe, but a lot of us have had it with the inaction around guns.  Fuck it.  Ban them all.

    (Not meant to be a personal attack on you, C.  I know you like target shooting.  Sorry so many of your other firearms fans have been so fucking lame and unreasonable.  They will fuck it up for you, not me.)
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni











  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,482
    The majority of people I’m aware of don’t secure their guns.  Having a gun in the house is by default, the ten year old’s gun. I’ve been in houses before with guns loose on counters etc 

    there is no law I’m aware of that deals with gun storage. There should be 

    in 21 states kids 12 or younger can hunt alone, literally by themselves. They aren’t old enough to drive there but you can drop them off and leave them with their gun. So a ten year old with a gun is absolutely nothing CPS cares about . In Texas you have to be 9
     

    If you were born on or after Sept. 2, 1971, and you are:

    • Under 9 years of age: You must be accompanied. Accompanied means: By a person (resident or non-resident) who is at least 17, who is licensed to hunt in Texas, who has passed hunter education or is exempt (born before Sept. 2, 1971), and you must be within normal voice control.
    • Age 9 through 16: You must successfully complete a hunter education course or be accompanied.
    (I was being facetious, in case it wasn't clear)

    I don't have a gun (let along multiple guns to necessitate a rack)...so I suppose I also would not if I had kids because that gets even more dangerous.  I'm pretty sure stats show that a gun is more likely to kill someone who lives in the house (perhaps including their invited guests) than an intruder. But I suppose most people think it's because "some people are idiots." And some of them turn out to be themselves.

    The idea of sending  a kid out hunting by himself or with nothin but other kids is bonkers to me. Kids are stupid and not as aware of consequences...regardless of how well they're taught.

    I suppose a 2A absolutist would suggest that laws dealing with storage are infringing on the right to bear arms. Either that or that it's the gateway to actual taking of guns.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
    2013 Wrigley     2014 St. Paul     2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley     2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley     2021 Asbury Park     2022 St Louis     2023 Austin, Austin
    2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley
  • Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited May 2022
    OnWis97 said:
    (I was being facetious, in case it wasn't clear)

    I don't have a gun (let along multiple guns to necessitate a rack)...so I suppose I also would not if I had kids because that gets even more dangerous.  I'm pretty sure stats show that a gun is more likely to kill someone who lives in the house (perhaps including their invited guests) than an intruder. But I suppose most people think it's because "some people are idiots." And some of them turn out to be themselves.

    The idea of sending  a kid out hunting by himself or with nothin but other kids is bonkers to me. Kids are stupid and not as aware of consequences...regardless of how well they're taught.

    I suppose a 2A absolutist would suggest that laws dealing with storage are infringing on the right to bear arms. Either that or that it's the gateway to actual taking of guns.
    It’s just an example of the leeway gun culture gets. This is the stuff anti-gun people are walking into. They have no idea how deep and wide it is.  I am not part of that culture, I’m adjacent to it. And yes, they all probably also have girlfriends named Stacy who provide them with gun racks.

    I have an (almost)9 year old.  

    I absolutely cannot let him walk to school by himself. The school also requires parental supervision at all times at drop off (through grade 5) so you have to stand there until the doors open. If you leave your kid unattended, you get a nice visit from the police officer (SRO, but it’s still a cop)

    I can however drop my 9 year old off in the woods with a gun and leave him there for 10 hours so he can kill stuff 

    if you think about what this means it’s basically: kids cannot function independently until middle school unless you give them a gun. Once you arm them they are mature enough to do whatever they want 
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 16,167
    brianlux said:

    Yes, at least.  I am one of them.
    I used to say this:  "A lot of us are not talking about banning guns all together.  What we want is a ban on assault rifles and much more rigid background checks."
    But a lot of us (me included) are sick to death of asking the same thing year after year for decades and getting jack shit.  We're also getting sick to death of reading about mass shootings.  And it's only happened once, but once was all it took for me to be sick to death of hearing about a friend killed by a stray bullet from some wacko out there.
    So now I say this:  "Ban all guns except for use by military and police."  A little stringent a demand?  Maybe, but a lot of us have had it with the inaction around guns.  Fuck it.  Ban them all.

    (Not meant to be a personal attack on you, C.  I know you like target shooting.  Sorry so many of your other firearms fans have been so fucking lame and unreasonable.  They will fuck it up for you, not me.)
    The republicans need a parent to come in and say, “if you can’t share the ball then no one gets to play with it”.  They act like children who only want things their way.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 43,343
      May 26, 2022 (Thursday)

    One of the key things that drove the rise of the current Republican Party was the celebration of a certain model of an ideal man, patterned on the image of the American cowboy. Republicans claimed to be defending individual men who could protect their families if only the federal government would stop interfering with them. Beginning in the 1950s, those opposed to government regulation and civil rights decisions pushed the imagery of the cowboy, who ran cattle on the Great Plains from 1866 to about 1886 and who, in legend, was a white man who worked hard, fought hard against Indigenous Americans, and wanted only for the government to leave him alone.

    That image was not true to the real cowboys, at least a third of whom were Black or men of color, or to the reality of government intervention in the Great Plains, which was more extensive there than in any other region of the country. It was a reaction to federal laws after the Civil War defending Black rights in the post–Civil War South, laws white racists said were federal overreach that could only lead to what they insisted was “socialism.”

    In the 1950s, the idea of an individual hardworking man taking care of his family and beholden to no one was an attractive image to those who disliked government protection of civil rights, and politicians who wanted to dissolve business regulation pulled them into the Republican Party by playing to the mythology of movie heroes like John Wayne. Part of that mythology, of course, was the idea that men with guns could defend their families, religion, and freedom against a government trying to crush them. By the 1980s, the National Rifle Association had abandoned its traditional stance promoting gun safety and was defending “gun rights” and the Republican Party; in the 1990s, talk radio hosts like Rush Limbaugh fed the militia movement with inflammatory warnings that the government was coming for a man’s guns, destroying his ability to protect his family.

    That cowboy image has stoked an obsession with guns and with military hardware and war training in police departments. It feeds a conviction that true men dominate situations, both at home and abroad, with violence. That dominance, in turn, is supposed to protect society’s vulnerable women and children.

    In 2008, in the District of Columbia v. Heller decision, the Supreme Court said that individuals have a right to own firearms outside of membership in a militia or for traditional purposes such as hunting or self-defense, and dramatically limited federal regulation of them. Justice Antonin Scalia, who wrote the majority decision, was a leading “originalist” on the court, eager to erase the decisions of the post-WWII courts that upheld business regulation and civil rights.

    In 2004, a ten-year federal ban on assault weapons expired, and since then. mass shootings have tripled. Zusha Elinson, who is writing a history of the bestselling AR-15 military style weapon used in many mass shootings, notes that there were about 400,000 AR-15 style rifles in America before the assault weapons ban went into effect in 1994. Today, there are 20 million.

    For years now, Republicans have stood firmly against measures to guard Americans against gun violence, even as a majority of Americans support commonsense measures like  background checks. Notably, after the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre in 2012, when a gunman murdered 20 six- and seven-year-old students and 6 staff members, Republicans in the Senate filibustered a bipartisan bill sponsored by Joe Manchin (D-WV) and Pat Toomey (R-PA) that would have expanded background checks, killing it despite the 55 votes in favor of it.

    Since Sandy Hook, the nation has suffered more than 3500 mass shootings, and Republicans have excused them by claiming they didn’t actually happen, or by insisting we need more guns so there will be “a good guy with a gun” to take out a shooter, or that we need to “harden targets,” or that we need more police in the schools (which has simply led to more student arrests), or as Senator Ted Cruz said today, to limit the number of doors in schools, or, as a guest on Fox News Channel personality Sean Hannity’s show said, to put “mantraps” and trip wires in the schools.

    The initial story of what happened on Tuesday in Uvalde fit the Republican myth. Police spokespeople told reporters that a school district police officer confronted the shooter outside the building before he barricaded himself in a classroom, killing 19 and wounding 22 others in his rampage.

    But as more details are emerging today, they are undermining the myth itself.

    Robb Elementary School, where the murders took place, had already been “hardened” with the town investing more than $650,000 in security enhancements, but the shooter apparently entered through an unlocked door. The Uvalde police department consumes 40% of the town’s budget and has its own Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) unit. And yet, the stories that are emerging from Uvalde suggest that the shooter fired shots outside the school for 12 minutes before entering it and that he was not, in fact, confronted outside. Police officers arrived at the same time he entered the school, but they did not go in until after he had been in the building for four minutes. Seven officers then entered, but the lone gunman apparently drove them out with gunfire, and they stayed outside, holding back frantic parents, until Border Patrol tactical officers arrived a full hour later.

    Parents tried to get the police to go in but instead found themselves under attack for interfering with an investigation. One man was thrown to the ground and pepper sprayed. U.S. Marshals arrested and handcuffed Angeli Rose Gomez, whose children were in the school and who had had time to drive 40 miles to get to them, for interfering as she demanded they do something. Gomez got local officers she knew to talk the Marshals into releasing her. Then she jumped the school fence, ran in, grabbed her two kids, and ran out.

    A Texas Department of Safety official told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer tonight that the law enforcement officers at the school were reluctant to engage the gunman because “they could’ve been shot, they could’ve been killed.”

    There are still many, many questions about what happened in Uvalde, but it seems clear that the heroes protecting the children were not the guys with guns, but the moms and the dads and the two female teachers who died trying to protect their students: Eva Mireles and Irma Garcia. News reports today say that Garcia’s husband, Joseph, died this morning of a heart attack, leaving four children.

    Last week, in the aftermath of the deadly attack on a supermarket in Buffalo, New York, Democrats in the House of Representatives quickly passed a a domestic terrorism bill. Senate majority leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY) tried to get the Senate to take it up today. It would have sparked a debate on gun safety. Republicans blocked it. In the aftermath of Tuesday’s massacre, only five Republicans have said they are willing to consider background checks for gun purchases. That is not enough to break a filibuster.

    Last night, Texas candidate for governor Beto O’Rourke confronted Texas governor Greg Abbott at a press conference. Last year, Abbott signed at least seven new laws to make it easier to obtain guns, and after the Uvalde murders, he said tougher gun laws are not “a real solution.” O’Rourke offered a different vision for defending our children than stocking up on guns. "The time to stop the next shooting is right now, and you are doing nothing," O'Rourke said, standing in front of a dais at which Abbott sat. "You said this is not predictable…. This is totally predictable…. This is on you, until you choose to do something different…. This will continue to happen. Somebody needs to stand up for the children of this state or they will continue to be killed, just like they were killed in Uvalde yesterday.”
     
    Uvalde mayor Don McLaughlin shouted profanities at O'Rourke; Texas Republican lieutenant governorDan Patrick told the former congressman, "You're out of line and an embarrassment”; and Senator Ted Cruz told him, “Sit down.”

    But this evening the New York Yankees and the Tampa Bay Rays announced they would use their social media channels not to cover tonight’s game but to share facts about gun violence. “The devastating events that have taken place in Uvalde, Buffalo and countless other communities across our nation are tragedies that are intolerable.”

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,153
    The republicans need a parent to come in and say, “if you can’t share the ball then no one gets to play with it”.  They act like children who only want things their way.
    Good analogy!
    mickeyrat said:
      May 26, 2022 (Thursday)

    One of the key things that drove the rise of the current Republican Party was the celebration of a certain model of an ideal man, patterned on the image of the American cowboy. Republicans claimed to be defending individual men who could protect their families if only the federal government would stop interfering with them. Beginning in the 1950s, those opposed to government regulation and civil rights decisions pushed the imagery of the cowboy, who ran cattle on the Great Plains from 1866 to about 1886 and who, in legend, was a white man who worked hard, fought hard against Indigenous Americans, and wanted only for the government to leave him alone.

    That image was not true to the real cowboys, at least a third of whom were Black or men of color, or to the reality of government intervention in the Great Plains, which was more extensive there than in any other region of the country. It was a reaction to federal laws after the Civil War defending Black rights in the post–Civil War South, laws white racists said were federal overreach that could only lead to what they insisted was “socialism.”

    In the 1950s, the idea of an individual hardworking man taking care of his family and beholden to no one was an attractive image to those who disliked government protection of civil rights, and politicians who wanted to dissolve business regulation pulled them into the Republican Party by playing to the mythology of movie heroes like John Wayne. Part of that mythology, of course, was the idea that men with guns could defend their families, religion, and freedom against a government trying to crush them. By the 1980s, the National Rifle Association had abandoned its traditional stance promoting gun safety and was defending “gun rights” and the Republican Party; in the 1990s, talk radio hosts like Rush Limbaugh fed the militia movement with inflammatory warnings that the government was coming for a man’s guns, destroying his ability to protect his family.

    That cowboy image has stoked an obsession with guns and with military hardware and war training in police departments. It feeds a conviction that true men dominate situations, both at home and abroad, with violence. That dominance, in turn, is supposed to protect society’s vulnerable women and children.

    In 2008, in the District of Columbia v. Heller decision, the Supreme Court said that individuals have a right to own firearms outside of membership in a militia or for traditional purposes such as hunting or self-defense, and dramatically limited federal regulation of them. Justice Antonin Scalia, who wrote the majority decision, was a leading “originalist” on the court, eager to erase the decisions of the post-WWII courts that upheld business regulation and civil rights.

    In 2004, a ten-year federal ban on assault weapons expired, and since then. mass shootings have tripled. Zusha Elinson, who is writing a history of the bestselling AR-15 military style weapon used in many mass shootings, notes that there were about 400,000 AR-15 style rifles in America before the assault weapons ban went into effect in 1994. Today, there are 20 million.

    For years now, Republicans have stood firmly against measures to guard Americans against gun violence, even as a majority of Americans support commonsense measures like  background checks. Notably, after the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre in 2012, when a gunman murdered 20 six- and seven-year-old students and 6 staff members, Republicans in the Senate filibustered a bipartisan bill sponsored by Joe Manchin (D-WV) and Pat Toomey (R-PA) that would have expanded background checks, killing it despite the 55 votes in favor of it.

    Since Sandy Hook, the nation has suffered more than 3500 mass shootings, and Republicans have excused them by claiming they didn’t actually happen, or by insisting we need more guns so there will be “a good guy with a gun” to take out a shooter, or that we need to “harden targets,” or that we need more police in the schools (which has simply led to more student arrests), or as Senator Ted Cruz said today, to limit the number of doors in schools, or, as a guest on Fox News Channel personality Sean Hannity’s show said, to put “mantraps” and trip wires in the schools.

    The initial story of what happened on Tuesday in Uvalde fit the Republican myth. Police spokespeople told reporters that a school district police officer confronted the shooter outside the building before he barricaded himself in a classroom, killing 19 and wounding 22 others in his rampage.

    But as more details are emerging today, they are undermining the myth itself.

    Robb Elementary School, where the murders took place, had already been “hardened” with the town investing more than $650,000 in security enhancements, but the shooter apparently entered through an unlocked door. The Uvalde police department consumes 40% of the town’s budget and has its own Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) unit. And yet, the stories that are emerging from Uvalde suggest that the shooter fired shots outside the school for 12 minutes before entering it and that he was not, in fact, confronted outside. Police officers arrived at the same time he entered the school, but they did not go in until after he had been in the building for four minutes. Seven officers then entered, but the lone gunman apparently drove them out with gunfire, and they stayed outside, holding back frantic parents, until Border Patrol tactical officers arrived a full hour later.

    Parents tried to get the police to go in but instead found themselves under attack for interfering with an investigation. One man was thrown to the ground and pepper sprayed. U.S. Marshals arrested and handcuffed Angeli Rose Gomez, whose children were in the school and who had had time to drive 40 miles to get to them, for interfering as she demanded they do something. Gomez got local officers she knew to talk the Marshals into releasing her. Then she jumped the school fence, ran in, grabbed her two kids, and ran out.

    A Texas Department of Safety official told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer tonight that the law enforcement officers at the school were reluctant to engage the gunman because “they could’ve been shot, they could’ve been killed.”

    There are still many, many questions about what happened in Uvalde, but it seems clear that the heroes protecting the children were not the guys with guns, but the moms and the dads and the two female teachers who died trying to protect their students: Eva Mireles and Irma Garcia. News reports today say that Garcia’s husband, Joseph, died this morning of a heart attack, leaving four children.

    Last week, in the aftermath of the deadly attack on a supermarket in Buffalo, New York, Democrats in the House of Representatives quickly passed a a domestic terrorism bill. Senate majority leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY) tried to get the Senate to take it up today. It would have sparked a debate on gun safety. Republicans blocked it. In the aftermath of Tuesday’s massacre, only five Republicans have said they are willing to consider background checks for gun purchases. That is not enough to break a filibuster.

    Last night, Texas candidate for governor Beto O’Rourke confronted Texas governor Greg Abbott at a press conference. Last year, Abbott signed at least seven new laws to make it easier to obtain guns, and after the Uvalde murders, he said tougher gun laws are not “a real solution.” O’Rourke offered a different vision for defending our children than stocking up on guns. "The time to stop the next shooting is right now, and you are doing nothing," O'Rourke said, standing in front of a dais at which Abbott sat. "You said this is not predictable…. This is totally predictable…. This is on you, until you choose to do something different…. This will continue to happen. Somebody needs to stand up for the children of this state or they will continue to be killed, just like they were killed in Uvalde yesterday.”
     
    Uvalde mayor Don McLaughlin shouted profanities at O'Rourke; Texas Republican lieutenant governorDan Patrick told the former congressman, "You're out of line and an embarrassment”; and Senator Ted Cruz told him, “Sit down.”

    But this evening the New York Yankees and the Tampa Bay Rays announced they would use their social media channels not to cover tonight’s game but to share facts about gun violence. “The devastating events that have taken place in Uvalde, Buffalo and countless other communities across our nation are tragedies that are intolerable.”


    Heather nailed it tonight.
    Well done, Yankees, Rays!
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni











  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 21,615
    I'm not sure seizing weapons is necessarily the answer. I do think that preventing the sales or exchanges of those weapons should be controlled though.  Clearly there are a lot of weapons in circulation and the owners aren't shooting up schools. I would guess that most of these shootings relate to recent purchases. I know that is the case for the one's I can think of off the top of my head. The one exception being the shooting in my town where the kid took his parents guns that were not secured. 
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,879
    ‘Murica’s carnage seems to be exportable. It’s just a matter of time once the market is saturated here.

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/26/world/toronto-police-shoot-man-firearm-near-schools/index.html
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,059
    the problem with not seizing them means all those guns are still in circulation. all the regulation and registration won't change the fact that a certain percentage of gun owner simply do not adequately secure their firearms away from people who shouldn't have them. 

    a mandatory buyback program coupled with a hefty jail sentence for anyone who is non compliant would do wonders. 
    "every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"




  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 21,615
    the problem with not seizing them means all those guns are still in circulation. all the regulation and registration won't change the fact that a certain percentage of gun owner simply do not adequately secure their firearms away from people who shouldn't have them. 

    a mandatory buyback program coupled with a hefty jail sentence for anyone who is non compliant would do wonders. 
    I would say a voluntary buyback program and required registration...maybe even a program where you have to let the police verify the weapon is still in your possession every few years.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,059
    I would say a voluntary buyback program and required registration...maybe even a program where you have to let the police verify the weapon is still in your possession every few years.
    I'd be interested to know what percentage of gun owners in america would voluntarily sell back their gun. I'd say in the zero point something to zero point something but slightly higher range. 

    the propaganda associated with a buyback, mandatory or voluntary, by the right wing media would be like something none of us had ever seen. so I don't think that's ever going to happen. I think Biden et al are going to try to ban "assault style" rifles like Clinton did. But he'll grandfather in current owners and require registration, which will do absolutely nothing. And it will fail anyway. I'm sure even a few democrats would vote against it. 
    "every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"




  • Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    I'd be interested to know what percentage of gun owners in america would voluntarily sell back their gun. I'd say in the zero point something to zero point something but slightly higher range. 

    the propaganda associated with a buyback, mandatory or voluntary, by the right wing media would be like something none of us had ever seen. so I don't think that's ever going to happen. I think Biden et al are going to try to ban "assault style" rifles like Clinton did. But he'll grandfather in current owners and require registration, which will do absolutely nothing. And it will fail anyway. I'm sure even a few democrats would vote against it. 
    At market rates a lot. Above market rates even more.
    giving out a 20 dollar gift card per gun, not a lot.

    At the end of the day it’s about incentives 


  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,059
    At market rates a lot. Above market rates even more.
    giving out a 20 dollar gift card per gun, not a lot.

    At the end of the day it’s about incentives 


    isn't "freedum from tyranny" the biggest incentive of them all amongst this crowd? or I suppose I'm overestimating the amount of nut jobs in the gun owner group. 
    "every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"




  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 21,615
    I'd be interested to know what percentage of gun owners in america would voluntarily sell back their gun. I'd say in the zero point something to zero point something but slightly higher range. 

    the propaganda associated with a buyback, mandatory or voluntary, by the right wing media would be like something none of us had ever seen. so I don't think that's ever going to happen. I think Biden et al are going to try to ban "assault style" rifles like Clinton did. But he'll grandfather in current owners and require registration, which will do absolutely nothing. And it will fail anyway. I'm sure even a few democrats would vote against it. 
    I'm actually ok with letting people keep their shit as long as there is accountability for what they have. That seems like a good compromise to me. But yes....prevent any future manufacture and sales at all levels. No more gun shows...no more private sales without titling...just like we do with fucking automobiles. 
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    isn't "freedum from tyranny" the biggest incentive of them all amongst this crowd? or I suppose I'm overestimating the amount of nut jobs in the gun owner group. 
    They may not sell all their guns, but they might get rid of half of them if it’s enough money.

    I agree a buyback program is probably less effective among single gun owners 
  • HobbesHobbes Pacific Northwest Posts: 6,435
    NRA is banning guns at their own convention. Laughable. I understand it’s the request of the secret service as trump will be in attendance, for his safety. Bans keep people safe, apparently. 
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 21,615
    Hobbes said:
    NRA is banning guns at their own convention. Laughable. I understand it’s the request of the secret service as trump will be in attendance, for his safety. Bans keep people safe, apparently. 
    yeah the contradiction is amazing...fucking assholes
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    Hobbes said:
    NRA is banning guns at their own convention. Laughable. I understand it’s the request of the secret service as trump will be in attendance, for his safety. Bans keep people safe, apparently. 
    I was down there yesterday. Eating lunch across the street. Explosive dogs everywhere, not so well disguised plain clothes officers etc.  they are making sure no guns or explosives are anywhere near that building. They are fanning out blocks away.  No way you can exercise your 2A rights anywhere near there.  

    Really there should be a gun rights protest outside that building 
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,878
    They may not sell all their guns, but they might get rid of half of them if it’s enough money.

    I agree a buyback program is probably less effective among single gun owners 
    My answer is no.  They never give you fair market value.  I'd hold and want the option to sell later at a proper price.  In the end I'd rather just keep the gun since it would be harder and more expensive to try and acquire another later.

    What that would do though is stop a lot of first time buyers perhaps.
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 21,615
    I was down there yesterday. Eating lunch across the street. Explosive dogs everywhere, not so well disguised plain clothes officers etc.  they are making sure no guns or explosives are anywhere near that building. They are fanning out blocks away.  No way you can exercise your 2A rights anywhere near there.  

    Really there should be a gun rights protest outside that building 
    yeah a lot of good guys with guns are getting their rights trampled there
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited May 2022
    yeah a lot of good guys with guns are getting their rights trampled there
    It’s funny because pro gun people boycotted Toby Keith’s restaurant specifically because guns were banned.  They will go to the gun free NRA convention though 

    discussions on pro gun forums go like this…
    https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Toby-Keith-s-Anti-gun-Restaurant-Opening-in-VA/5-1569692/?page=1


    I’m glad we can have civilised discussions here 🤣


    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 9,697
    Hobbes said:
    NRA is banning guns at their own convention. Laughable. I understand it’s the request of the secret service as trump will be in attendance, for his safety. Bans keep people safe, apparently. 
    I think it’s horrible timing and bad taste to not move or postpone the event. But you can’t fault anyone for enforcing no guns at an event with a former president, even if it is the NRA.
    Its ironic, but that’s about all.
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 9,697
    They may not sell all their guns, but they might get rid of half of them if it’s enough money.

    I agree a buyback program is probably less effective among single gun owners 
    That’s exactly what I would do if it was retail value. It’s too much of a hassle and expensive to sell a gun privately, so I end up keeping some I will probably never use. If I got fair market I’d sell them.
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,482
    It’s funny because pro gun people boycotted Toby Keith’s restaurant specifically because guns were banned.  They will go to the gun free NRA convention though 

    discussions on pro gun forums go like this…
    https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Toby-Keith-s-Anti-gun-Restaurant-Opening-in-VA/5-1569692/?page=1


    I’m glad we can have civilised discussions here 🤣


    That's funny. I'd actually think most "freedom" people would recognize the freedom a private establishment has to not allow guns.

    But when people live their lives in fear of some mystical "oppression," rationality goes out the window. About 15 years ago, before Minnesota went smoke-free at restaurants, I was living in a small city (Winona) and the Green Mill went smoke free. There was a little piece in the newspaper and I'll never forget the online commenter whining about government overreach...it was a decision by one restaurant. But I think people are just waiting to get outraged.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
    2013 Wrigley     2014 St. Paul     2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley     2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley     2021 Asbury Park     2022 St Louis     2023 Austin, Austin
    2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 43,343
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
This discussion has been closed.