America's Gun Violence #2
Comments
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brianlux said:We keep hearing (and saying) that these shooting are a "sign that America is broken". Here's a perspective that shows how it's not at all broken, that all is going as planned:
Shootings aren’t a sign America is ‘broken’. It’s working exactly as intended
Ryan BusseI was a firearms exec for years. The industry used to adhere to self-imposed rules and norms – until gun makers and lobby groups like the NRA realized fear and extremism sold more guns
After the horrific mass murders in Buffalo and Uvalde, Americans are hearing a familiar chorus emanating from the cable networks. Every host and guest seems shocked. They search for the right words.
Eventually, their message becomes almost universal: Something is horribly broken in a country that allows troubled young men to arm themselves to the teeth and kill innocent people – especially young children. Social media explodes, expressing a version of the shock that the first lady, Jill Biden, expressed after the murders in Uvalde – “Stunned. Angry. Heartbroken.”
I too am angry and heartbroken. But I am not stunned, and I don’t believe anything is broken. The truth is that Americans now live within an escalating system of radicalized gun tragedy that is working exactly as expected.
I know. For more than two decades, I worked in the highest levels of the firearms industry. I spent my career working to hold on to the principles of responsible gun ownership and fighting against the very predictable results of increasing extremism and the pursuit of profit above all else.
I wrote my book Gunfight about the truth of what the industry has become and about my life fighting it from the inside. Today I’m a senior adviser to the gun violence prevention group founded by former congresswoman Gabby Giffords – not a career path I thought I’d have when I first started out in the firearms industry, but one that felt very necessary to me given what I experienced.
For the first few years of my career, which started in 1995, the industry adhered to self-imposed rules and norms – such as restricting tactical gear like that worn by the Buffalo and Uvalde shooters to the law enforcement and military sections of trade shows. Even up until about 15 years ago, self-imposed policies like this were strictly enforced by the industry’s own trade association, the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF). Industry norms prohibited displaying tactical gear, certain marketing campaigns or incendiary firearms names, for fear of what might spread throughout the country.
But as the increasing vitriol of the National Rifle Association (NRA) proved politically effective, some in the gun business realized this messaging could be adopted by the firearms industry to sell more guns. All that was required for success was a dedication to frighteningly dangerous rhetoric and increasingly powerful weaponry. Cultural norms and responsibility would have to go.
The extreme risks and likely outcomes of such an experiment seemed obvious to me and to others. I refused to join the growing tactical market and worked to weaken the NRA behind the scenes. And I wasn’t the only one.
A number of other people in the industry sounded their own alarms about the impacts of “terrorist rifles” and a nation with unlimited gun sales and insufficient responsibility. Those warnings resulted in the quick and very public loss of careers at the hands of the NRA and its growing radicalized troll army.
Everyone else got the message. Speaking up for responsibility was not to be tolerated. Unpleasantries like radicalized young men with too many guns were to be treated like diffuse pollution that could be dealt with by someone downstream. Even when unspeakable tragedies, such as the murders at Sandy Hook, were linked directly to shockingly irresponsible marketing campaigns that promised a metaphorical “man card” to any young man who purchased an AR-15, the NSSF opted to look the other way.
For years, the NSSF worked behind the scenes to criticize and marginalize people like me who spoke up. Today the organization openly attacks anyone who speaks out in support of gun safety. But it has nothing to say about Kyle Rittenhouse or armed men menacing the Michigan capital. So far there is silence from the NSSF and the NRA on the 10 Black Americans murdered in Buffalo and the 19 children and two teachers murdered in Uvalde.
The NSSF helped craft a new world of gun lobby extremism in which profits are all that matter. With the election of America’s first Black president, the lobby embraced conspiracy-mongering, racism and fear campaigns. Gun sales soared from less than 8m guns in 2008 to more than 16m in 2016.
In 2016, the firearms industry was all-in on Donald Trump and even piped his 2017 American Carnage inauguration speech throughout the industry trade show like a religious ceremony. The industry celebrated because Trump was the perfect salesman for more guns. This system was simply being pushed to its next stage.
This Friday, Trump is scheduled to speak at the annual NRA convention in Houston – less than 300 miles from Uvalde. The convention hall will be full of NSSF industry members lining up to court Trump and his frenzied fans. The system continues to work just as it was designed by the NRA and NSSF; from their point of view, nothing about it is broken.
There is a reason why troubled 18-year-olds can buy assault rifles, body armor and high-capacity magazines. There is a reason why racism, conspiracies and increasingly dangerous idolatry infect parts of our country, and federal gun legislation has stalled time and time again. It’s the gun lobby – the NRA, the NSSF and the politicians who are frightened of them.
The horrific murders of second- and third-graders are part of that system. It’s time to rebuild it. We can all be safer from gun violence if we’re willing to stand up to the gun lobby and the politicians who champion their dangerous extremism in pursuit of profits.
mickeyrat said:
I used to compete in IDPA contests and win. I went to the range 5 times a week. I really enjoyed shooting as a hobby or sport. I stopped reading all the gun magazines in 2010 or so. I was never a tactical guy but it was pretty heavily advertised and at ranges you would see people with "tact out" rifles. It was just becoming a thing when I was easing out of it.
For the last 12 years or so people on these boards and elsewhere were talking about a "gun culture". What the hell does that mean? I didn't understand. I had guns, I shot for fun and that was that.
What I wasn't doing is going online and the message boards and reading the magazines to see what was new and what others were talking about. To me my mind was still 2010 and these "man card" adds were not a thing yet.
So after reading and seeing that video I get what people meant now. It used to not be like this. I agree w the video and prohibition/banning isn't the answer. Changing the culture is, but how does a group that is all in change that view now?0 -
tbergs said:brianlux said:mace1229 said:brianlux said:HughFreakingDillon said:The Juggler said:HughFreakingDillon said:well I sure hope that if any legislation is made that they care about "semantics".
it's less semantics and more clarification for the purposes of discussion. not sure what the problem is with that.
For those who want to discuss the fine points of gun legislation, the details would be important, for sure.
I guess you could say my perspective is more general. From my way of looking at it, the finer details are not so important- I just want to see firearms that are capable of firing several rounds rapidly and killing large numbers of people kept out of the hands of civilians.
I should probably steer clear of the more technical discussions here.
I mentioned a few times a fixed magazine. I haven’t pointed out that the definition of a fixed magazine is stupid. It’s fixed if it requires a “tool” to remove. A tool could be the point of a pen, or more commonly the tip of a bullet. So they make the button too small for a finger, but the tip of a bullet fits and now it’s considered a fixed magazine, even though it can still be released in about 1.2 seconds. I would think that’s worth knowing for anyone who wants to see new laws.
So not only do we need to require fixed magazines, we need to redefine what that is.I think I was pretty clear about what I'd like to see happen, but I'll say it again:I want to see firearms that are capable of firing several rounds rapidly and killing large numbers of people kept out of the hands of civilians.I see no reason to add any further technical details to that. You either agree, or not.
No one expected Brian to name anything. Just adding to the discussion of what should be done. But this is the result when the “other side” joins the conversation, so they rarely do.
Post edited by mace1229 on0 -
I saw an interesting exchange on Chris Hayes' show last night. The segment was about the gun lobby and gun manufacturers.
Basically the gun industry knows that once people buy a gun (pistol, rifle, shotgun, etc.....I won't list every possible model so please don't argue with me about the definition of pistol, rifle, shotgun) they tend to stop purchasing. In order to keep people buying they push these conspiracy theories that the guvmint is going to take your guns, that you need guns to defend yourself from lawless mobs, the guvmint, neighbors with bigger guns, etc., in an attempt to get you to buy more guns. It is a very small percentage of the gun owning population that goes overboard with multiple guns and fantasies about defending their property from tyranny, etc.
I thought it was a good argument. I have a rifle that my dad gave to me. It's just a .22 but I don't hunt so there is no need for me to have another. I bought a handgun about 22 years ago that is still like new. I wouldn't mind having a shotgun for protection but I'm not sure if I will ever buy one.
That isn't to say that all gun purchasers are repeat buyers. I know that recent stats show that most activity the last few years have been new gun owners. I just thought the angle was interesting.Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt20 -
These were my neighbors until about six months ago when they moved. Strange that they felt this would make a nice family photo. The two boys clearly are not comfortable holding those guns....kind of an awkward pose. Oh....and check out the white power symbol flash....am I overthinking that???
I've mentioned them before on here. They had a sign in their backyard near their dock that says "This property protected by the 2A"....like lake pirates were going to storm their property or something.
Interesting note....the young girl (now she is 17-18) is currently in our local jail for theft. She has been there for about a month awaiting trial because she didn't show up for her initial hearing. Great family.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt20 -
tempo_n_groove said:brianlux said:We keep hearing (and saying) that these shooting are a "sign that America is broken". Here's a perspective that shows how it's not at all broken, that all is going as planned:
Shootings aren’t a sign America is ‘broken’. It’s working exactly as intended
Ryan BusseI was a firearms exec for years. The industry used to adhere to self-imposed rules and norms – until gun makers and lobby groups like the NRA realized fear and extremism sold more guns
After the horrific mass murders in Buffalo and Uvalde, Americans are hearing a familiar chorus emanating from the cable networks. Every host and guest seems shocked. They search for the right words.
Eventually, their message becomes almost universal: Something is horribly broken in a country that allows troubled young men to arm themselves to the teeth and kill innocent people – especially young children. Social media explodes, expressing a version of the shock that the first lady, Jill Biden, expressed after the murders in Uvalde – “Stunned. Angry. Heartbroken.”
I too am angry and heartbroken. But I am not stunned, and I don’t believe anything is broken. The truth is that Americans now live within an escalating system of radicalized gun tragedy that is working exactly as expected.
I know. For more than two decades, I worked in the highest levels of the firearms industry. I spent my career working to hold on to the principles of responsible gun ownership and fighting against the very predictable results of increasing extremism and the pursuit of profit above all else.
I wrote my book Gunfight about the truth of what the industry has become and about my life fighting it from the inside. Today I’m a senior adviser to the gun violence prevention group founded by former congresswoman Gabby Giffords – not a career path I thought I’d have when I first started out in the firearms industry, but one that felt very necessary to me given what I experienced.
For the first few years of my career, which started in 1995, the industry adhered to self-imposed rules and norms – such as restricting tactical gear like that worn by the Buffalo and Uvalde shooters to the law enforcement and military sections of trade shows. Even up until about 15 years ago, self-imposed policies like this were strictly enforced by the industry’s own trade association, the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF). Industry norms prohibited displaying tactical gear, certain marketing campaigns or incendiary firearms names, for fear of what might spread throughout the country.
But as the increasing vitriol of the National Rifle Association (NRA) proved politically effective, some in the gun business realized this messaging could be adopted by the firearms industry to sell more guns. All that was required for success was a dedication to frighteningly dangerous rhetoric and increasingly powerful weaponry. Cultural norms and responsibility would have to go.
The extreme risks and likely outcomes of such an experiment seemed obvious to me and to others. I refused to join the growing tactical market and worked to weaken the NRA behind the scenes. And I wasn’t the only one.
A number of other people in the industry sounded their own alarms about the impacts of “terrorist rifles” and a nation with unlimited gun sales and insufficient responsibility. Those warnings resulted in the quick and very public loss of careers at the hands of the NRA and its growing radicalized troll army.
Everyone else got the message. Speaking up for responsibility was not to be tolerated. Unpleasantries like radicalized young men with too many guns were to be treated like diffuse pollution that could be dealt with by someone downstream. Even when unspeakable tragedies, such as the murders at Sandy Hook, were linked directly to shockingly irresponsible marketing campaigns that promised a metaphorical “man card” to any young man who purchased an AR-15, the NSSF opted to look the other way.
For years, the NSSF worked behind the scenes to criticize and marginalize people like me who spoke up. Today the organization openly attacks anyone who speaks out in support of gun safety. But it has nothing to say about Kyle Rittenhouse or armed men menacing the Michigan capital. So far there is silence from the NSSF and the NRA on the 10 Black Americans murdered in Buffalo and the 19 children and two teachers murdered in Uvalde.
The NSSF helped craft a new world of gun lobby extremism in which profits are all that matter. With the election of America’s first Black president, the lobby embraced conspiracy-mongering, racism and fear campaigns. Gun sales soared from less than 8m guns in 2008 to more than 16m in 2016.
In 2016, the firearms industry was all-in on Donald Trump and even piped his 2017 American Carnage inauguration speech throughout the industry trade show like a religious ceremony. The industry celebrated because Trump was the perfect salesman for more guns. This system was simply being pushed to its next stage.
This Friday, Trump is scheduled to speak at the annual NRA convention in Houston – less than 300 miles from Uvalde. The convention hall will be full of NSSF industry members lining up to court Trump and his frenzied fans. The system continues to work just as it was designed by the NRA and NSSF; from their point of view, nothing about it is broken.
There is a reason why troubled 18-year-olds can buy assault rifles, body armor and high-capacity magazines. There is a reason why racism, conspiracies and increasingly dangerous idolatry infect parts of our country, and federal gun legislation has stalled time and time again. It’s the gun lobby – the NRA, the NSSF and the politicians who are frightened of them.
The horrific murders of second- and third-graders are part of that system. It’s time to rebuild it. We can all be safer from gun violence if we’re willing to stand up to the gun lobby and the politicians who champion their dangerous extremism in pursuit of profits.
mickeyrat said:
I used to compete in IDPA contests and win. I went to the range 5 times a week. I really enjoyed shooting as a hobby or sport. I stopped reading all the gun magazines in 2010 or so. I was never a tactical guy but it was pretty heavily advertised and at ranges you would see people with "tact out" rifles. It was just becoming a thing when I was easing out of it.
For the last 12 years or so people on these boards and elsewhere were talking about a "gun culture". What the hell does that mean? I didn't understand. I had guns, I shot for fun and that was that.
What I wasn't doing is going online and the message boards and reading the magazines to see what was new and what others were talking about. To me my mind was still 2010 and these "man card" adds were not a thing yet.
So after reading and seeing that video I get what people meant now. It used to not be like this. I agree w the video and prohibition/banning isn't the answer. Changing the culture is, but how does a group that is all in change that view now?
My wife posted a memory from her FB yesterday because of that four year anniversary of a school shooting in our city. One of her FB "friends" posted about how this TX shooting was a set up to get more gun control. Who the fuck actually thinks that? And who is stupid enough to post it?Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt20 -
Gern Blansten said:I saw an interesting exchange on Chris Hayes' show last night. The segment was about the gun lobby and gun manufacturers.
Basically the gun industry knows that once people buy a gun (pistol, rifle, shotgun, etc.....I won't list every possible model so please don't argue with me about the definition of pistol, rifle, shotgun) they tend to stop purchasing. In order to keep people buying they push these conspiracy theories that the guvmint is going to take your guns, that you need guns to defend yourself from lawless mobs, the guvmint, neighbors with bigger guns, etc., in an attempt to get you to buy more guns. It is a very small percentage of the gun owning population that goes overboard with multiple guns and fantasies about defending their property from tyranny, etc.
I thought it was a good argument. I have a rifle that my dad gave to me. It's just a .22 but I don't hunt so there is no need for me to have another. I bought a handgun about 22 years ago that is still like new. I wouldn't mind having a shotgun for protection but I'm not sure if I will ever buy one.
That isn't to say that all gun purchasers are repeat buyers. I know that recent stats show that most activity the last few years have been new gun owners. I just thought the angle was interesting.
Every time the President was a democrat though you would hear the same argument that they will ban something so people ran out and bought more guns.
I don't think that the world will go to shit and I'll have to fend off people but it's a piece of mind that I do have some means.
Just a reminder of everyone that wants to "ban" certain guns, that is a way for the gubmint to take them away from you.0 -
Bentleyspop said:HughFreakingDillon said:I don't care about semantics. I just watched the most heart wrenching video I've ever seen. Amerie Jo Garza's dad was being interviewed by Anderson Cooper. He is a med aid. he arrived at the scene and one little girl he was helping was covered in blood. She said she was ok but they killed her best friend. She told him the name of that best friend. that best friend was his daughter. She was trying to call the police with the phone she got for her birthday two weeks ago.
I'm a fucking blubbering mess. I'm fucking angry. I'm canadian, watching this carnage from a distance, and I'm fucking ANGRY.
And the ones that say no hopefully at least some percentage of them would never get re-elected.
I just can't imagine being one of these parents. How anyone could watch that and not think we need to change things is mind boggling.This weekend we rock Portland0 -
tempo_n_groove said:Gern Blansten said:I saw an interesting exchange on Chris Hayes' show last night. The segment was about the gun lobby and gun manufacturers.
Basically the gun industry knows that once people buy a gun (pistol, rifle, shotgun, etc.....I won't list every possible model so please don't argue with me about the definition of pistol, rifle, shotgun) they tend to stop purchasing. In order to keep people buying they push these conspiracy theories that the guvmint is going to take your guns, that you need guns to defend yourself from lawless mobs, the guvmint, neighbors with bigger guns, etc., in an attempt to get you to buy more guns. It is a very small percentage of the gun owning population that goes overboard with multiple guns and fantasies about defending their property from tyranny, etc.
I thought it was a good argument. I have a rifle that my dad gave to me. It's just a .22 but I don't hunt so there is no need for me to have another. I bought a handgun about 22 years ago that is still like new. I wouldn't mind having a shotgun for protection but I'm not sure if I will ever buy one.
That isn't to say that all gun purchasers are repeat buyers. I know that recent stats show that most activity the last few years have been new gun owners. I just thought the angle was interesting.
Every time the President was a democrat though you would hear the same argument that they will ban something so people ran out and bought more guns.
I don't think that the world will go to shit and I'll have to fend off people but it's a piece of mind that I do have some means.
Just a reminder of everyone that wants to "ban" certain guns, that is a way for the gubmint to take them away from you.
And I'm good with the gubmint taking guns but I don't think that will happen.
Making it as hard as possible for messed up 18 year olds to get these weapons should be the priority. Anti gun law people will say that a criminal will get the gun no matter what but this nutjob at least had to wait until he was 18. What if that age were 21? What if that purchase required licensing and training? Or clearance with the local police...which I think should absolutely be the case.
When I got my lifetime permit in Indiana several years ago I had to submit fingerprints for an FBI screening. I'm not sure if they still do that or not but my guess is they do not.Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt20 -
Gern Blansten said:These were my neighbors until about six months ago when they moved. Strange that they felt this would make a nice family photo. The two boys clearly are not comfortable holding those guns....kind of an awkward pose. Oh....and check out the white power symbol flash....am I overthinking that???
I've mentioned them before on here. They had a sign in their backyard near their dock that says "This property protected by the 2A"....like lake pirates were going to storm their property or something.
Interesting note....the young girl (now she is 17-18) is currently in our local jail for theft. She has been there for about a month awaiting trial because she didn't show up for her initial hearing. Great family.
I assume the dog's name must have been Winchester or Remington or similar.This weekend we rock Portland0 -
Poncier said:Gern Blansten said:These were my neighbors until about six months ago when they moved. Strange that they felt this would make a nice family photo. The two boys clearly are not comfortable holding those guns....kind of an awkward pose. Oh....and check out the white power symbol flash....am I overthinking that???
I've mentioned them before on here. They had a sign in their backyard near their dock that says "This property protected by the 2A"....like lake pirates were going to storm their property or something.
Interesting note....the young girl (now she is 17-18) is currently in our local jail for theft. She has been there for about a month awaiting trial because she didn't show up for her initial hearing. Great family.
I assume the dog's name must have been Winchester or Remington or similar.Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt20 -
That is out of the bag on guns in this country. If someone wants it badly enough there are enough out there to acquire. Especially when people buy 10+ of them when they only have two hands.With that said, if we can pass legislation to make it more difficult to acquire guns (especially automatic weapons however defined) and it prevents one mass shooting then it will be worth it.0
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Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt20 -
After these school shooting disasters the silence from the GOP is by far too deafening.
✌️*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)0 -
They interviewed the coroner in Uvalde. He said most of the kids bodies were so unrecognizable because of all the carnage and they had to use dna testing to identify the kids. Can't imagine having to walk into that classroom and see that scene."I got memories, I got shit"0
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mace1229 said:tbergs said:brianlux said:mace1229 said:brianlux said:HughFreakingDillon said:The Juggler said:HughFreakingDillon said:well I sure hope that if any legislation is made that they care about "semantics".
it's less semantics and more clarification for the purposes of discussion. not sure what the problem is with that.
For those who want to discuss the fine points of gun legislation, the details would be important, for sure.
I guess you could say my perspective is more general. From my way of looking at it, the finer details are not so important- I just want to see firearms that are capable of firing several rounds rapidly and killing large numbers of people kept out of the hands of civilians.
I should probably steer clear of the more technical discussions here.
I mentioned a few times a fixed magazine. I haven’t pointed out that the definition of a fixed magazine is stupid. It’s fixed if it requires a “tool” to remove. A tool could be the point of a pen, or more commonly the tip of a bullet. So they make the button too small for a finger, but the tip of a bullet fits and now it’s considered a fixed magazine, even though it can still be released in about 1.2 seconds. I would think that’s worth knowing for anyone who wants to see new laws.
So not only do we need to require fixed magazines, we need to redefine what that is.I think I was pretty clear about what I'd like to see happen, but I'll say it again:I want to see firearms that are capable of firing several rounds rapidly and killing large numbers of people kept out of the hands of civilians.I see no reason to add any further technical details to that. You either agree, or not.
No one expected Brian to name anything. Just adding to the discussion of what should be done. But this is the result when the “other side” joins the conversation, so they rarely do.
I'll keep waiting on that NRA funded GOP senator or congress person to reach across the aisle and introduce any new legislation to help prevent gun violence...It's a hopeless situation...0 -
JojoRice said:They interviewed the coroner in Uvalde. He said most of the kids bodies were so unrecognizable because of all the carnage and they had to use dna testing to identify the kids. Can't imagine having to walk into that classroom and see that scene.It's a hopeless situation...0
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American exceptionalism....
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JojoRice said:I live in Kennesaw, GA and we have a law that requires every homeowner to have a gun. Granted it's not enforced.www.myspace.com0
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tbergs said:mace1229 said:tbergs said:brianlux said:mace1229 said:brianlux said:HughFreakingDillon said:The Juggler said:HughFreakingDillon said:well I sure hope that if any legislation is made that they care about "semantics".
it's less semantics and more clarification for the purposes of discussion. not sure what the problem is with that.
For those who want to discuss the fine points of gun legislation, the details would be important, for sure.
I guess you could say my perspective is more general. From my way of looking at it, the finer details are not so important- I just want to see firearms that are capable of firing several rounds rapidly and killing large numbers of people kept out of the hands of civilians.
I should probably steer clear of the more technical discussions here.
I mentioned a few times a fixed magazine. I haven’t pointed out that the definition of a fixed magazine is stupid. It’s fixed if it requires a “tool” to remove. A tool could be the point of a pen, or more commonly the tip of a bullet. So they make the button too small for a finger, but the tip of a bullet fits and now it’s considered a fixed magazine, even though it can still be released in about 1.2 seconds. I would think that’s worth knowing for anyone who wants to see new laws.
So not only do we need to require fixed magazines, we need to redefine what that is.I think I was pretty clear about what I'd like to see happen, but I'll say it again:I want to see firearms that are capable of firing several rounds rapidly and killing large numbers of people kept out of the hands of civilians.I see no reason to add any further technical details to that. You either agree, or not.
No one expected Brian to name anything. Just adding to the discussion of what should be done. But this is the result when the “other side” joins the conversation, so they rarely do.
I'll keep waiting on that NRA funded GOP senator or congress person to reach across the aisle and introduce any new legislation to help prevent gun violence...
If the pro gun crowd was sincere about fixing gun violence in America, they wouldn't be sitting around waiting for the anti-gun crowd to get their terminology straight.
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Bentleyspop said:American exceptionalism....It's a hopeless situation...0
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