America's Gun Violence #2

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  • Winnipeg Posts: 39,839
    edited May 2022
    well said....jesus christ I can't believe we have to repeat this every fucking time a school gets shot up
    I think some of those you/we engage with have the same frustrations. 
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  • Posts: 5,149
    tbergs said:
    Ever since that armed robbery in California years ago, police agencies have been outfitted with more fire power, but the problem is they aren't patrolling the hallways of your kid's school with that semi-auto assault rifle draped across their shoulder and decked out in full body armor. Our police would need to be outfitted like our military on foreign soil in order to properly engage most of these fucking asshole mass shooters. Is that the next "solution"? Military presence at schools like we're in a war torn country. I fully believe that a lot of people think that is the answer and want their kids going to school with shit like that as the standard.
    We are in a war torn country.  This doesn't happen in civilized nations.  This is why our daughter goes to private school.  If it becomes a thing to have armed guards in full battle gear, we will probably be homeschooling.
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  • Posts: 5,149
    I understand what you are saying. completely. However, maybe these frivolous arguments wouldn't occur if we would learn the correct verbiage when entering a discussion? how can a discussion be had about something like that if we don't first understand the language. this is why it always comes down to the 2A'ers thinking "THE LEFT IS COMING FOR ALL YOUR GUNS". because that's how it's presented, and the onus is somehow on them to decipher what it is we're talking about. 

    it's really no different than the right arguing about something as broad as "late term abortions", and then it turns into a kerfuffle about what that exactly means. it's because they don't know what they are talking about. or, as the left assumes, it's coded language for "THE RIGHT IS TRYING TO BAN ALL ABORTIONS FROM CONCEPTION". which is also (many times) false. 
    If you explained your argument in the minutest detail the goalposts would be moved.
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  • Winnipeg Posts: 39,839
    depends on the person. 
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  • Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,508
    static111 said:
    We are in a war torn country.  This doesn't happen in civilized nations.  This is why our daughter goes to private school.  If it becomes a thing to have armed guards in full battle gear, we will probably be homeschooling.
    To me it comes down to the people that like to play army. I guess we should be happy that they don't try to argue that the "right to bare arms" doesn't include tactical nukes.
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  • St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,641
    edited May 2022
    I think "arm the teachers" and "good guy with a gun" people might take action movie scenes a bit too seriously.  I'm trying to imagine my 5th grade teacher grabbing his keys, opening a drawer, pulling out a gun, and rolling into the hallway getting three perfect shots (2 to the chest and one to the head) of the shooter. And of course, with no chance of him tagging another teacher and two more kids in the process, while pee runs down his leg.

    If I'm riding the LRT train and I see one gun, I'm not really hoping for armed good guys. More amateur gunslingers is probably going to lead to a large number of stray bullets. This shit is difficult for cops to get right in the heat of the moment; why do I want the person coming home from their office job or their shift at Target protecting the rest of us with gunfire? No thanks.

    I remember watching movies and seeing the protagonist survive after someone would miss multiple shots and thinking "like anyone is that bad of a shot..." honestly, it was probably closer to accurate than I realized; or at least it would have been if more collateral damage would have been done.

    Mutually assured destruction worked during the cold war...I don't think it works for the drunken masses.
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  • Here Posts: 4,282
    I understand what you are saying. completely. However, maybe these frivolous arguments wouldn't occur if we would learn the correct verbiage when entering a discussion? how can a discussion be had about something like that if we don't first understand the language. this is why it always comes down to the 2A'ers thinking "THE LEFT IS COMING FOR ALL YOUR GUNS". because that's how it's presented, and the onus is somehow on them to decipher what it is we're talking about. 

    it's really no different than the right arguing about something as broad as "late term abortions", and then it turns into a kerfuffle about what that exactly means. it's because they don't know what they are talking about. or, as the left assumes, it's coded language for "THE RIGHT IS TRYING TO BAN ALL ABORTIONS FROM CONCEPTION". which is also (many times) false. 
    Agreed.  It’s pretty hard to not take people for their words that they say.  Like Beto saying specifically that he’s coming for your guns and wants them confiscated.  Anyone who is not trying to politicize it, would not say it like that.  It’s not based in reality.  But yet, Abbott not saying a damn word about guns is also not realistic.  Something needs to be done about stricter gun laws.  There has to be a middle ground.  Too many people in the world will not accept it.  Blows my mind…
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  • Winnipeg Posts: 39,839
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  • Posts: 42,761
    The gunman stormed passed an armed security guard and was in the school for an hour prior to being killed by a law enforcement tactical team. So much for the good guy with a gun.
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  • New Jersey Posts: 29,146
    Hey guys here is some background info you should read to help you understand all the terminology.   
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/breakdown-gun-terminology-help-discussions-221859783.html

    A breakdown of gun terminology to help you in discussions on mass shootings and debates over gun contro

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  • Posts: 9,944
    Actually YOU said "we don't need to ban AR-15s" and I said "Yeah we need to ban AR-15s"
    That’s half of what I said. I said you don’t need to ban AR15s, ban the features that you don’t like. That would be more effective. I don’t understand why this is something you’re arguing about, I would think that would be good to know.
  • Posts: 49,598
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  • Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,508
    edited May 2022
    mace1229 said:
    That’s half of what I said. I said you don’t need to ban AR15s, ban the features that you don’t like. That would be more effective. I don’t understand why this is something you’re arguing about, I would think that would be good to know.
    because you misrepresented what I said....and if the features of an AR-15 are banned then the AR-15 is banned. You knew exactly what I/we meant.
    Post edited by Gern Blansten on
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  • Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,777
    The gunman stormed passed an armed security guard and was in the school for an hour prior to being killed by a law enforcement tactical team. So much for the good guy with a gun.

    I read maybe an hour ago that it was actually a border guard who had been nearby who finally managed to get into the classroom and take him out.
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  • Posts: 9,944
    I get where mace is coming from. he's trying to come up with solutions and is getting mocked by people who, let's be honest here, don't really know the specifics of what we are talking about. many of us know the point we want to get to, but we don't the specific verbiage. 
    I’ve believed for a while the biggest obstacle for gun restrictions is actually the anti gun crowd. That is a usually response when people who own guns and know what they are taking about want to give honest feedback. I really don’t get it.

    Anyone who is upset should want to know the semantics. If you want to have a voice and create change, know what you’re taking about. I just don’t understand it, the whole dismissing input from gun owners, or just saying “you’re taking about semantics.” Yeah, because that’s important. 

    I actually do believe a lot of people think banning AR15s will help solve the problem, not knowing that there’s lots of guns capable of doing the same thing that don’t look even close to it. And even just a ban on assault rifles won’t be as effective, manufactures and people will find ways to around an “assault rifle” ban by adding or removing some cosmetic feature or something. That’s happened before, it’ll happen again

    Most gun owners are willing to cooperate and come up with solutions and add input . They just never seem to be received well.
  • St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,470
    mace1229 said:
    I’ve believed for a while the biggest obstacle for gun restrictions is actually the anti gun crowd. That is a usually response when people who own guns and know what they are taking about want to give honest feedback. I really don’t get it.

    Anyone who is upset should want to know the semantics. If you want to have a voice and create change, know what you’re taking about. I just don’t understand it, the whole dismissing input from gun owners, or just saying “you’re taking about semantics.” Yeah, because that’s important. 

    I actually do believe a lot of people think banning AR15s will help solve the problem, not knowing that there’s lots of guns capable of doing the same thing that don’t look even close to it. And even just a ban on assault rifles won’t be as effective, manufactures and people will find ways to around an “assault rifle” ban by adding or removing some cosmetic feature or something. That’s happened before, it’ll happen again

    Most gun owners are willing to cooperate and come up with solutions and add input . They just never seem to be received well.
    no. no they aren't. SOME are. there are many people here that are willing to have an honest conversation. go to comments sections on your local newspaper social media pages and check out the discourse on there. that is more of a microcosm of what america is really like. this place is the anomoly. 
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  • Posts: 9,944
    for the sake of the argument....I referred to the AR-15 specifically because mace did. Not that is being used against me. Give me a fucking break.
    I mentioned AR15 because 15 other people did. Even posted a list of school shootings involving an AR15, which wasn’t accurate. They were assault rifles. Not every assault rifle is an AR15.  If you mean assault rifles/weapons, it doesn’t take 10000 extra words to say that like you said. So honestly I think most people who post this stuff would be excited to hear they announced a ban of AR 15s, not knowing there’s dozens of other guns you can buy that do the same thing. You may not be one of those people, I don’t know.
    Im not trying to criticize anyone. I really just don’t understand what you disagree with when i say “don’t ban AR15s, ban features on an AR 15 that make it more deadly.” That would obviously apply to all guns. That’s a bigger, more effecting broader ban. But because a gun supporter suggested it you’re against it or something?
  • St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,470
    no. no they aren't. SOME are. there are many people here that are willing to have an honest conversation. go to comments sections on your local newspaper social media pages and check out the discourse on there. that is more of a microcosm of what america is really like. this place is the anomoly. 
    i forgot to say that any time gun legislation is brought up by a democrat, the pro gun people automatically translate that to "they are gonna ban all the guns!!!!" and they hysterically throw that accusation around, thus losing the ability to have a reasonable discussion.
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    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Posts: 9,944
    edited May 2022
    because you misrepresented what I said....and if the features of an AR-15 are banned then the AR-15 is banned. You knew exactly what I/we meant.
    Honestly, I don’t. When most of what I see is “ban AR15s” over and over, I think that’s what they mean. If you mean ban assault rifles, then fine. But my advice I offered would be even more effective than that for the reasons I explained. So still don’t understand why this turns into an argument. I don’t care if someone doesn’t know the terminology or differences in guns. Just be open to learning and Not immediately dismiss people when they are offering suggestions.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • Posts: 49,598
    Ban assault rifles. Fuck the semantics. Jesus christ. 
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