America's Gun Violence #2

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  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,366

    If to my comment, please take a closer look at what I was replying to…thanks!

    Haha. No, I had posted something in the wrong thread, so replaced the text with that.
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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,042
    Right...and again, we aren't writing legislation here. I don't want to type 1000 words for every kleenex that needs to be listed.  Don't we all get that point?
    now that you say it, yes. but when you mention AR15's specifically, it appears as though you are talking about that specific rifle, not all ones like it. 

    full disclosure: until a few minutes ago, I thought AR15 was the type, so I didn't see any problem with saying "ban AR15's". now I see that's incorrect. if you want people to take you seriously in a discussion, specifics matter. otherwise the person you are debating has every right to believe you don't know what you are talking about, and if you don't know what you are talking about, why should they entertain your ideas?
    "every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"




  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,873
    GREAT country we have here. Exceptional. Every country should be as great as 'Murica. What a shithole.


    Texas school shooting
     
    (The Washington Post)
    More than 311,000 students have experienced gun violence at school since Columbine

    The Washington Post spent months determining how many children have been exposed to gun violence during school hours since the Columbine High massacre in 1999.
    By Washington Post Staff ●  Read more » 

    Gunman was bullied as a child, grew increasingly violent, friends say 
    By Robert Klemko, Silvia Foster-Frau and Shawn Boburg ●  Read more » 

    From Sandy Hook to Buffalo and Uvalde: Ten years of failure on gun control
    By Ashley Parker, Tyler Pager and Colby Itkowitz ●  Read more » 

     

     

     



     

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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 21,607
    now that you say it, yes. but when you mention AR15's specifically, it appears as though you are talking about that specific rifle, not all ones like it. 

    full disclosure: until a few minutes ago, I thought AR15 was the type, so I didn't see any problem with saying "ban AR15's". now I see that's incorrect. if you want people to take you seriously in a discussion, specifics matter. otherwise the person you are debating has every right to believe you don't know what you are talking about, and if you don't know what you are talking about, why should they entertain your ideas?
    and again....mace stated that AR-15s didn't need to be banned and I disagreed. I wasn't stating that was the only thing that needed banned. If you look back a few pages you will see that I started the day saying that "assault weapons" should be banned.

    Now we can argue that an AR-15 isn't an assault weapon right?
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

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    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 21,607
    edited May 2022

    for the sake of the argument....I referred to the AR-15 specifically because mace did. Not that is being used against me. Give me a fucking break.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,042
    and again....mace stated that AR-15s didn't need to be banned and I disagreed. I wasn't stating that was the only thing that needed banned. If you look back a few pages you will see that I started the day saying that "assault weapons" should be banned.

    Now we can argue that an AR-15 isn't an assault weapon right?
    well that's likely where we're headed, so yes. 
    "every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"




  • Hi!Hi! Posts: 3,095

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  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 17,613
    cutz said:
    Something like this?

    https://youtu.be/CNIt8RvGP5M
    "Ram the bullet fully home"
    "Place a fresh cap on the nipple"
    "Bring the rifle to full cock"

    Close your eyes and you'd swear this is a blow by blow narration of Saturday night with George and Kellyanne Conway.
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,696
    I get where mace is coming from. he's trying to come up with solutions and is getting mocked by people who, let's be honest here, don't really know the specifics of what we are talking about. many of us know the point we want to get to, but we don't the specific verbiage. 
    It’s just deflection. Used every time. Either start on about mental health or semantics of guns. 

    “That’s not an assault weapon”….

    We get it and you should get the point being made.
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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,042
    It’s just deflection. Used every time. Either start on about mental health or semantics of guns. 

    “That’s not an assault weapon”….

    We get it and you should get the point being made.
    I agree it can be a deflection. but mace is a good guy who has legitimate questions about what people are proposing. 
    "every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"




  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,873
    Poncier said:
    "Ram the bullet fully home"
    "Place a fresh cap on the nipple"
    "Bring the rifle to full cock"

    Close your eyes and you'd swear this is a blow by blow narration of Saturday night with George and Kellyanne Conway.
    Or Johnny Depp and Amber Heard.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • tbergstbergs Posts: 10,246
    ...Maybe instead of trying to appease gun advocates by word smithing "assault rifle", we could just agree something needs to change.
    ...Maybe instead of being concerned over protesters on the sidewalks outside of Justice's houses, we could protect our children in school.
    ...Maybe instead of arming teachers, we require background checks that include a psychological assessment prior to purchasing semi-autos.
    ...Maybe instead of thoughts, prayers and deepest condolences, we take action to reduce gun violence through laws and policies.
    ...Maybe instead of being concerned about 18 years olds purchasing alcohol, we could increase age requirements for gun purchases.
    ...Maybe instead of stopping the steal and saving America, we save our children by voting for politicians who support meaningful legislation.
    ...Maybe it's just another day in America.

    I tend to think we can do better, but at the end of the day/week/month/year it always falls back to that last point. Pathetic. The death of children continues to mean nothing, but everyone is really sad about it.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 21,607
    It sounds like the police were outgunned at first. I really can't believe that police aren't more vocal about these weapons in the hands of the public. 


    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,042
    It sounds like the police were outgunned at first. I really can't believe that police aren't more vocal about these weapons in the hands of the public. 


    so the whole "good guy with a gun" thing is utter bullshit and some rambo-wannabe loser fantasy? YOU DON'T SAY
    "every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"




  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 21,607
    so the whole "good guy with a gun" thing is utter bullshit and some rambo-wannabe loser fantasy? YOU DON'T SAY
    I have said for years that once we keep adding school shootings and more good guys with guns get taken out because the cops can't tell the difference (when arriving on the scene) we will finally get legislation.

    The question is just how many bodies need to pile up.


    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 49,576



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  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 49,576
    edited May 2022
    ^
    We are dumbest country in the world. 
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  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,396
    since nobody wants to do any kind of legislation on guns, how about we require background checks on people purchasing body armor?

    more and more often these mass shooters are wearing body armor. maybe if you cannot pass a background check, you cannot get the body armor. so if you are gonna go and do a mass shooting at least it gives the good guys with guns a chance if you are not wearing body armor.
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  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 12,292
    It sounds like the police were outgunned at first. I really can't believe that police aren't more vocal about these weapons in the hands of the public. 



     Or the "Blue Lives Matter" crowd... then again, 1/6/21 and its aftermath confirmed "Blue Lives Matter" was all bullshit anyway. 
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 21,607

     Or the "Blue Lives Matter" crowd... then again, 1/6/21 and its aftermath confirmed "Blue Lives Matter" was all bullshit anyway. 
    yep
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,893
    It sounds like the police were outgunned at first. I really can't believe that police aren't more vocal about these weapons in the hands of the public. 



    I think that would immediately trigger a don't back the blue response and you'd see a lot of those blue line flags taken down, if the cops started vocalizing that guns are bad.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 21,607
    static111 said:

    I think that would immediately trigger a don't back the blue response and you'd see a lot of those blue line flags taken down, if the cops started vocalizing that guns are bad.
    From a vocal minority only.

    I wouldn't expect police chiefs to come forward and say "guns are bad" I would expect them to say "we cannot adequately defend ourselves when criminals have access to weapons more powerful than we carry". 
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 10,246
    I agree it can be a deflection. but mace is a good guy who has legitimate questions about what people are proposing. 
    A good guy with a gun...that's all we need in the end to stop these events. Anyway, not trying to be an ass, but it's tiring. We've all had this conversation a hundred times and every time it comes down to someone accidentally mis-labeling assault rifle or using the word ban. Then it's a battle back and forth over frivolous shit that shouldn't matter. The point is, why is ownership of a semi-auto rifle or handgun a right we are willing to place higher than the right for our children to be safe?
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • ParksyParksy Posts: 1,834
    static111 said:

    I think that would immediately trigger a don't back the blue response and you'd see a lot of those blue line flags taken down, if the cops started vocalizing that guns are bad.
    My boss and I were talking today about how much more difficult it must be to be a copper in certain states in America.  Like....  not knowing who has a gun and who doesn't and always having to be aware of that risk.   I would think cops would be on the front lines of getting tougher gun laws.... but alas I think a lot of coppers in the states were raised along the same Pro 2A lines.  
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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 21,607
    tbergs said:
    A good guy with a gun...that's all we need in the end to stop these events. Anyway, not trying to be an ass, but it's tiring. We've all had this conversation a hundred times and every time it comes down to someone accidentally mis-labeling assault rifle or using the word ban. Then it's a battle back and forth over frivolous shit that shouldn't matter. The point is, why is ownership of a semi-auto rifle or handgun a right we are willing to place higher than the right for our children to be safe?
    well said....jesus christ I can't believe we have to repeat this every fucking time a school gets shot up
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,893
    From a vocal minority only.

    I wouldn't expect police chiefs to come forward and say "guns are bad" I would expect them to say "we cannot adequately defend ourselves when criminals have access to weapons more powerful than we carry". 
    They have been saying that for years that's why some precincts are set up with full on military hardware.  The answer is for the cops to gun up!
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,481
    static111 said:

    I think that would immediately trigger a don't back the blue response and you'd see a lot of those blue line flags taken down, if the cops started vocalizing that guns are bad.
    That's probably true. And at this point, with everyone digging in their heels on "sides" it feels like no surprise to see cops making sure to stay on the good side of MAGA. That said, guns have been a hot topic for decades and it would have made some sense in the 1980s or 1990s, or maybe after Columbine, when adherence to the party wasn't so strict, for them to have the stance that "people on the streets carrying guns that we don't even carry makes our jobs more difficult and less safe."  Cops have always been on the right, so maybe it's always been about staying with their side...but the GQP was the GOP and they weren't having loyalty tests yet. And cops themselves were not as polarizing as they are now. It would have made so much sense for cops to drive some changes...
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  • tbergstbergs Posts: 10,246
    edited May 2022
    static111 said:
    They have been saying that for years that's why some precincts are set up with full on military hardware.  The answer is for the cops to gun up!
    Ever since that armed robbery in California years ago, police agencies have been outfitted with more fire power, but the problem is they aren't patrolling the hallways of your kid's school with that semi-auto assault rifle draped across their shoulder and decked out in full body armor. Our police would need to be outfitted like our military on foreign soil in order to properly engage most of these fucking asshole mass shooters. Is that the next "solution"? Military presence at schools like we're in a war torn country. I fully believe that a lot of people think that is the answer and want their kids going to school with shit like that as the standard.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,042
    tbergs said:
    A good guy with a gun...that's all we need in the end to stop these events. Anyway, not trying to be an ass, but it's tiring. We've all had this conversation a hundred times and every time it comes down to someone accidentally mis-labeling assault rifle or using the word ban. Then it's a battle back and forth over frivolous shit that shouldn't matter. The point is, why is ownership of a semi-auto rifle or handgun a right we are willing to place higher than the right for our children to be safe?
    I understand what you are saying. completely. However, maybe these frivolous arguments wouldn't occur if we would learn the correct verbiage when entering a discussion? how can a discussion be had about something like that if we don't first understand the language. this is why it always comes down to the 2A'ers thinking "THE LEFT IS COMING FOR ALL YOUR GUNS". because that's how it's presented, and the onus is somehow on them to decipher what it is we're talking about. 

    it's really no different than the right arguing about something as broad as "late term abortions", and then it turns into a kerfuffle about what that exactly means. it's because they don't know what they are talking about. or, as the left assumes, it's coded language for "THE RIGHT IS TRYING TO BAN ALL ABORTIONS FROM CONCEPTION". which is also (many times) false. 
    "every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"




  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,042
    I had a back and forth with @PJPOWER a while back about the Alec Baldwin thing. It turns out, I had no fucking clue what I was talking about. And it took several pages to get there. lol. I'm not going to be one of those "do your research before you come and post", but at least the bare minimum of agreed upon terms so it doesn't end up in merry go round discussions.
    "every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"




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