America's Gun Violence #2

OnWis97 said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

We are all "2A guys"....the problem is how we define the 2nd amendment. An amendment which was based on weapons that took a minute to load a single round.

Claiming the 2A keeps us safe from tyranny is just moronic.

We want a government strong enough to wipe Islam off the face of the earth but weak enough to be taken down by a junta of hillbillies.

I don't really think I am a 2A guy. And if I was, I'd be calling my representatives and remind them that they are part of the government that established the amendment so they need to be part of the process of establishing well-regulated militias.

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

I won't ever stop being one but I'm also not a nutter either.  

If you could, and I know we can't, come to some 50 state agreement on gun laws I would be all for it but you have too many people that want all or nothing on gun control.  That works the other way too as the nutters don't want any more laws at all.

Again.. with respect.. if your stance is that you'll never stop being one...   why is that? 

Just for context here in case you're asking "why is this guy asking me this?"   as a Canadian I don't personally know anyone.. at all who has any 'undying' loyalty to any piece of legislation here. We have four 'fundamental' freedoms in our Charter which is the equivalent of your Constitution. Freedom of Religion, Expression, Assembly, and Association. 

I highly doubt any single person in my family, immediate and extended, even knows that and I doubt any single one of my friends... with the exception of maybe two can tell me what section of the Charter those freedoms are in. 

So when I see and hear about people in America who associate themselves and often pride themselves for being a supporter of a centuries old legislation... it's odd to me.  I'm curious and hoping you can help me understand why that is. 

I am trying to express this without bringing the thunder from the rest of the board members here and having to defend myself from every angle as it's not what I want to exhaust myself with today...

When I hear people asked "Why" also, I cringe sometimes.  I grew up w a family that shot and owned multiple firearms, so there is that.  I was around them and enjoyed them.  Owning and shooting was just another regular occurrence with us, not a big deal.

I do see banning something as taking away a right.  I don't mind jumping through a few hoops just as long as I can still own it.

This one might be part nutter answer...If shit ever hits the fan I do want to be able to be prepared and not have to worry about protection from someone or somewhere else.  

From what I have read, the majority of NRA members even support stronger laws, background checks, etc.  It's just become a GOP mantra to stir up the "don't tread on me" voters by making them fear that the government is coming for their guns.

My fix would be to tax the shit out of ammunition, ban assault weapons....prevent the further sale and manufacture of them except for military use, license all guns and require training just like a drivers license. I don't give two shits about the tyranny argument as that is just fucking complete insanity. I also don't buy the personal protection argument. No one needs an assault weapon to protect their home. 

You lost me at "ban"...

Get used to it because it's coming. At some point most of us will have had enough and you will need something else to play with.

You should try listening and reasoning to people rather than forcing it down one's throat.  That is why the nutters won't let it happen...

There's no reasonable argument for not banning AR15s. 

brianlux said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

I won't ever stop being one but I'm also not a nutter either.  

If you could, and I know we can't, come to some 50 state agreement on gun laws I would be all for it but you have too many people that want all or nothing on gun control.  That works the other way too as the nutters don't want any more laws at all.

Again.. with respect.. if your stance is that you'll never stop being one...   why is that? 

Just for context here in case you're asking "why is this guy asking me this?"   as a Canadian I don't personally know anyone.. at all who has any 'undying' loyalty to any piece of legislation here. We have four 'fundamental' freedoms in our Charter which is the equivalent of your Constitution. Freedom of Religion, Expression, Assembly, and Association. 

I highly doubt any single person in my family, immediate and extended, even knows that and I doubt any single one of my friends... with the exception of maybe two can tell me what section of the Charter those freedoms are in. 

So when I see and hear about people in America who associate themselves and often pride themselves for being a supporter of a centuries old legislation... it's odd to me.  I'm curious and hoping you can help me understand why that is. 

I am trying to express this without bringing the thunder from the rest of the board members here and having to defend myself from every angle as it's not what I want to exhaust myself with today...

When I hear people asked "Why" also, I cringe sometimes.  I grew up w a family that shot and owned multiple firearms, so there is that.  I was around them and enjoyed them.  Owning and shooting was just another regular occurrence with us, not a big deal.

I do see banning something as taking away a right.  I don't mind jumping through a few hoops just as long as I can still own it.

This one might be part nutter answer...If shit ever hits the fan I do want to be able to be prepared and not have to worry about protection from someone or somewhere else.  

From what I have read, the majority of NRA members even support stronger laws, background checks, etc.  It's just become a GOP mantra to stir up the "don't tread on me" voters by making them fear that the government is coming for their guns.

My fix would be to tax the shit out of ammunition, ban assault weapons....prevent the further sale and manufacture of them except for military use, license all guns and require training just like a drivers license. I don't give two shits about the tyranny argument as that is just fucking complete insanity. I also don't buy the personal protection argument. No one needs an assault weapon to protect their home. 

You lost me at "ban"...

Get used to it because it's coming. At some point most of us will have had enough and you will need something else to play with.

You should try listening and reasoning to people rather than forcing it down one's throat.  That is why the nutters won't let it happen...

There's no reasonable argument for not banning AR15s. 

I don't know of any reasonable argument for anyone other than law enforcement and military personnel to have guns.  

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

I won't ever stop being one but I'm also not a nutter either.  

If you could, and I know we can't, come to some 50 state agreement on gun laws I would be all for it but you have too many people that want all or nothing on gun control.  That works the other way too as the nutters don't want any more laws at all.

Again.. with respect.. if your stance is that you'll never stop being one...   why is that? 

Just for context here in case you're asking "why is this guy asking me this?"   as a Canadian I don't personally know anyone.. at all who has any 'undying' loyalty to any piece of legislation here. We have four 'fundamental' freedoms in our Charter which is the equivalent of your Constitution. Freedom of Religion, Expression, Assembly, and Association. 

I highly doubt any single person in my family, immediate and extended, even knows that and I doubt any single one of my friends... with the exception of maybe two can tell me what section of the Charter those freedoms are in. 

So when I see and hear about people in America who associate themselves and often pride themselves for being a supporter of a centuries old legislation... it's odd to me.  I'm curious and hoping you can help me understand why that is. 

I am trying to express this without bringing the thunder from the rest of the board members here and having to defend myself from every angle as it's not what I want to exhaust myself with today...

When I hear people asked "Why" also, I cringe sometimes.  I grew up w a family that shot and owned multiple firearms, so there is that.  I was around them and enjoyed them.  Owning and shooting was just another regular occurrence with us, not a big deal.

I do see banning something as taking away a right.  I don't mind jumping through a few hoops just as long as I can still own it.

This one might be part nutter answer...If shit ever hits the fan I do want to be able to be prepared and not have to worry about protection from someone or somewhere else.  

From what I have read, the majority of NRA members even support stronger laws, background checks, etc.  It's just become a GOP mantra to stir up the "don't tread on me" voters by making them fear that the government is coming for their guns.

My fix would be to tax the shit out of ammunition, ban assault weapons....prevent the further sale and manufacture of them except for military use, license all guns and require training just like a drivers license. I don't give two shits about the tyranny argument as that is just fucking complete insanity. I also don't buy the personal protection argument. No one needs an assault weapon to protect their home. 

You lost me at "ban"...

Get used to it because it's coming. At some point most of us will have had enough and you will need something else to play with.

You should try listening and reasoning to people rather than forcing it down one's throat.  That is why the nutters won't let it happen...

There's no reasonable argument for not banning AR15s. 

Then we are done here...

I don't think you're a nutter, but the position you're taking here suggests otherwise. 

tempo_n_groove said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

I won't ever stop being one but I'm also not a nutter either.  

If you could, and I know we can't, come to some 50 state agreement on gun laws I would be all for it but you have too many people that want all or nothing on gun control.  That works the other way too as the nutters don't want any more laws at all.

Again.. with respect.. if your stance is that you'll never stop being one...   why is that? 

Just for context here in case you're asking "why is this guy asking me this?"   as a Canadian I don't personally know anyone.. at all who has any 'undying' loyalty to any piece of legislation here. We have four 'fundamental' freedoms in our Charter which is the equivalent of your Constitution. Freedom of Religion, Expression, Assembly, and Association. 

I highly doubt any single person in my family, immediate and extended, even knows that and I doubt any single one of my friends... with the exception of maybe two can tell me what section of the Charter those freedoms are in. 

So when I see and hear about people in America who associate themselves and often pride themselves for being a supporter of a centuries old legislation... it's odd to me.  I'm curious and hoping you can help me understand why that is. 

I am trying to express this without bringing the thunder from the rest of the board members here and having to defend myself from every angle as it's not what I want to exhaust myself with today...

When I hear people asked "Why" also, I cringe sometimes.  I grew up w a family that shot and owned multiple firearms, so there is that.  I was around them and enjoyed them.  Owning and shooting was just another regular occurrence with us, not a big deal.

I do see banning something as taking away a right.  I don't mind jumping through a few hoops just as long as I can still own it.

This one might be part nutter answer...If shit ever hits the fan I do want to be able to be prepared and not have to worry about protection from someone or somewhere else.  

From what I have read, the majority of NRA members even support stronger laws, background checks, etc.  It's just become a GOP mantra to stir up the "don't tread on me" voters by making them fear that the government is coming for their guns.

My fix would be to tax the shit out of ammunition, ban assault weapons....prevent the further sale and manufacture of them except for military use, license all guns and require training just like a drivers license. I don't give two shits about the tyranny argument as that is just fucking complete insanity. I also don't buy the personal protection argument. No one needs an assault weapon to protect their home. 

You lost me at "ban"...

Get used to it because it's coming. At some point most of us will have had enough and you will need something else to play with.

You should try listening and reasoning to people rather than forcing it down one's throat.  That is why the nutters won't let it happen...

There's no reasonable argument for not banning AR15s. 

Then we are done here...

I don't think you're a nutter, but the position you're taking here suggests otherwise. 

My position is from what you said.  "There is no point of arguing" so I won't then.  I'm not changing your mind and will move on is all.

dankind said:

Cropduster-80 said:

brianlux said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

I won't ever stop being one but I'm also not a nutter either.  

If you could, and I know we can't, come to some 50 state agreement on gun laws I would be all for it but you have too many people that want all or nothing on gun control.  That works the other way too as the nutters don't want any more laws at all.

Again.. with respect.. if your stance is that you'll never stop being one...   why is that? 

Just for context here in case you're asking "why is this guy asking me this?"   as a Canadian I don't personally know anyone.. at all who has any 'undying' loyalty to any piece of legislation here. We have four 'fundamental' freedoms in our Charter which is the equivalent of your Constitution. Freedom of Religion, Expression, Assembly, and Association. 

I highly doubt any single person in my family, immediate and extended, even knows that and I doubt any single one of my friends... with the exception of maybe two can tell me what section of the Charter those freedoms are in. 

So when I see and hear about people in America who associate themselves and often pride themselves for being a supporter of a centuries old legislation... it's odd to me.  I'm curious and hoping you can help me understand why that is. 

I am trying to express this without bringing the thunder from the rest of the board members here and having to defend myself from every angle as it's not what I want to exhaust myself with today...

When I hear people asked "Why" also, I cringe sometimes.  I grew up w a family that shot and owned multiple firearms, so there is that.  I was around them and enjoyed them.  Owning and shooting was just another regular occurrence with us, not a big deal.

I do see banning something as taking away a right.  I don't mind jumping through a few hoops just as long as I can still own it.

This one might be part nutter answer...If shit ever hits the fan I do want to be able to be prepared and not have to worry about protection from someone or somewhere else.  

From what I have read, the majority of NRA members even support stronger laws, background checks, etc.  It's just become a GOP mantra to stir up the "don't tread on me" voters by making them fear that the government is coming for their guns.

My fix would be to tax the shit out of ammunition, ban assault weapons....prevent the further sale and manufacture of them except for military use, license all guns and require training just like a drivers license. I don't give two shits about the tyranny argument as that is just fucking complete insanity. I also don't buy the personal protection argument. No one needs an assault weapon to protect their home. 

You lost me at "ban"...

Get used to it because it's coming. At some point most of us will have had enough and you will need something else to play with.

You should try listening and reasoning to people rather than forcing it down one's throat.  That is why the nutters won't let it happen...

There's no reasonable argument for not banning AR15s. 

I don't know of any reasonable argument for anyone other than law enforcement and military personnel to have guns.  

Bears 

if you’ve ever been waist deep in a river fishing and a bear is standing on the bank staring at you, you’ll  know why.  

That’s one reason.  There are a lot of others. You can get a shotgun license even in the UK if you are a farmer and they are about as strict on guns as anywhere for foxes and stuff 

I was going to add farmers. I grew up on a farm, and we had guns to protect our livelihood. I probably learned how to shoot before I learned my ABCs.

Also, criminals generally need guns in their line of work, too, since their opposition is armed.

HughFreakingDillon said:

and that's fine. you aren't taking an AR15 camping, right?

Cropduster-80 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

and that's fine. you aren't taking an AR15 camping, right?

Nope. Unnecessary and unpractical 

it’s just the I don’t see a need for “any guns” comments.  There are needs.