Tragic event in which Alec Baldwin 'discharged' prop gun that left cinematographer dead.

brianlux said:

Human nature often means when something bad happens to a loved one, somebody has to take the blame.  I feel badly for both Baldwin and the family.  It sure seems to me that who ever was responsible for the props/equipment is the one who blew it.  And who doesn't make mistakes?  Obviously it is time to stop using guns on movie sets.  No brainer.

I think the use of real guns on movie sets will be very scrutinized after this….hopefully anyways.  I feel bad for Baldwin too, but it does seem like he carries a portion of the responsibility here.  The family deserves compensation for the safety negligence.  I, for one, fear what kind of precedence would be set if he wasn’t held at least partially responsible.  The “I didn’t know it was really loaded” excuse would be used at every trial involving firearm gross negligence.

Merkin Baller said:

brianlux said:

Human nature often means when something bad happens to a loved one, somebody has to take the blame.  I feel badly for both Baldwin and the family.  It sure seems to me that who ever was responsible for the props/equipment is the one who blew it.  And who doesn't make mistakes?  Obviously it is time to stop using guns on movie sets.  No brainer.

Yeah, there are people employed by the film companies to make sure an incident like this never occurs. That's why they are there. 

Blaming Baldwin for this doesn't make sense to me, but with that being said, there's not much that DOES make sense to me these days. 

The lawsuit says that he cut corners and refused safety trainings, etc.  Not to mention he was a producer responsible for making sure safety protocols were in place.  Personally, I don’t see how he isn’t liable.  I don’t think his celebrity status is going to absolve his liability here.
The family lawyer makes some pretty compelling claims, did you watch their video?  I’d like to hear people’s thoughts on their presentation, as it spells out exactly what I’ve been saying in a better, more spelled out way.

HughFreakingDillon said:

as we've already noted, I am ignorant when it comes to guns. I've never held one, I don't know the safety features of them and how they work. You claim they 100% can't just go off by themselves. I find it hard to believe that there is 0 margin for error in any machinery. of any kind. that just doesn't exist in reality. I've read conflicting statements by gun "experts" all over the place that have claimed as you do, but just as many have claimed as Alex is. So I don't know what to believe. 

I’m pretty sure this was a single action, being a western movie. That means the trigger can’t be pulled unless it’s fully cocked. Baldwin has said he didn’t cock it all the way. That just can’t happen. A gun just firing off is about as likely as my car starting and driving down the street on its own.
Now certain things can fail on a gun, I’m sure a safety can fail, the hammer slam down if the gun is dropped, etc. but they just don’t go off. The story he gave in that interview didn’t make any sense to me.
Im not saying he’s responsible. I just don’t agree 100% with his version. I do think moving forward any person handling a gun needs to be part of the safety check and be the final check. 

I remember this happened close to the time of the Rittenhouse trial. I only watched a few bits, but one I saw was a lawyer (I forget which side) wanted to use his rifle as a prop. The judge asked if it had been checked by the expert, the lawyer said it was. The judge said k“check it again,” he wanted to see the weapon checked in front of him.
At the very least, how is that not applied to movies? If an actor, director and everyone else  can’t/doesn’t want to learn safety checks, then be a witness to it. Clearly not one person was a witness to this safety check, because it never happened.

PJPOWER said:

Merkin Baller said:

brianlux said:

Human nature often means when something bad happens to a loved one, somebody has to take the blame.  I feel badly for both Baldwin and the family.  It sure seems to me that who ever was responsible for the props/equipment is the one who blew it.  And who doesn't make mistakes?  Obviously it is time to stop using guns on movie sets.  No brainer.

Yeah, there are people employed by the film companies to make sure an incident like this never occurs. That's why they are there. 

Blaming Baldwin for this doesn't make sense to me, but with that being said, there's not much that DOES make sense to me these days. 

The lawsuit says that he cut corners and refused safety trainings, etc.  Not to mention he was a producer responsible for making sure safety protocols were in place.  Personally, I don’t see how he isn’t liable.  I don’t think his celebrity status is going to absolve his liability here.
The family lawyer makes some pretty compelling claims, did you watch their video?  I’d like to hear people’s thoughts on their presentation, as it spells out exactly what I’ve been saying in a better, more spelled out way.

Lawsuits say all sorts of shit... just because they say it, doesn't mean they can prove it. I'll wait to see it play out in court rather than form an opinion based on a lawyer's allegations. 

If he's found to be negligent through his direct actions on the spot, or sidestepping safety protocol either as an actor or as a producer, than throw the book at him, I couldn't give a shit about his celebrity status.

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

as we've already noted, I am ignorant when it comes to guns. I've never held one, I don't know the safety features of them and how they work. You claim they 100% can't just go off by themselves. I find it hard to believe that there is 0 margin for error in any machinery. of any kind. that just doesn't exist in reality. I've read conflicting statements by gun "experts" all over the place that have claimed as you do, but just as many have claimed as Alex is. So I don't know what to believe. 

I’m pretty sure this was a single action, being a western movie. That means the trigger can’t be pulled unless it’s fully cocked. Baldwin has said he didn’t cock it all the way. That just can’t happen. A gun just firing off is about as likely as my car starting and driving down the street on its own.
Now certain things can fail on a gun, I’m sure a safety can fail, the hammer slam down if the gun is dropped, etc. but they just don’t go off. The story he gave in that interview didn’t make any sense to me.
Im not saying he’s responsible. I just don’t agree 100% with his version. I do think moving forward any person handling a gun needs to be part of the safety check and be the final check. 

I said it before, we can expect an actor to gain or lose 50 lbs, learn an instrument, train in dancing or fighting 8 hours a day for months and no one thinks twice. But to suggest they should take 5 minutes to learn how to check and operate a firearm they are using people get riled up. I don’t get it. 

Agree with the boldfaced. 

PJPOWER said:

mace1229 said:

I remember this happened close to the time of the Rittenhouse trial. I only watched a few bits, but one I saw was a lawyer (I forget which side) wanted to use his rifle as a prop. The judge asked if it had been checked by the expert, the lawyer said it was. The judge said k“check it again,” he wanted to see the weapon checked in front of him.
At the very least, how is that not applied to movies? If an actor, director and everyone else  can’t/doesn’t want to learn safety checks, then be a witness to it. Clearly not one person was a witness to this safety check, because it never happened.

I’m not too familiar with the film industry standards, but the family’s lawyer says it is “industry standard” for the actor handling the firearm to do a final safety check, as well as remote camera operation, safety barriers, etc when a real firearm is being used.
 If those things are true, he’s fucked.

I don’t know what the industry standards are either. But I do know it will just be all finger pointing and passing the blame. Alec will claim he was told it was cold. The director or whoever gave him the gun will say the same thing. The safety guy will say no one asked him if the gun had been checked and so on. 

mace1229 said:

PJPOWER said:

mace1229 said:

I remember this happened close to the time of the Rittenhouse trial. I only watched a few bits, but one I saw was a lawyer (I forget which side) wanted to use his rifle as a prop. The judge asked if it had been checked by the expert, the lawyer said it was. The judge said k“check it again,” he wanted to see the weapon checked in front of him.
At the very least, how is that not applied to movies? If an actor, director and everyone else  can’t/doesn’t want to learn safety checks, then be a witness to it. Clearly not one person was a witness to this safety check, because it never happened.

I’m not too familiar with the film industry standards, but the family’s lawyer says it is “industry standard” for the actor handling the firearm to do a final safety check, as well as remote camera operation, safety barriers, etc when a real firearm is being used.
 If those things are true, he’s fucked.

I don’t know what the industry standards are either. But I do know it will just be all finger pointing and passing the blame. Alec will claim he was told it was cold. The director or whoever gave him the gun will say the same thing. The safety guy will say no one asked him if the gun had been checked and so on. 

My guess is this case will conclude with since there are so many lose ends no one person can be found at fault. And if that is how it works, then I don’t really disagree this time. Personally I would never take a gun from someone and take their word on I being unloaded. That’s happened to me dozens of times, friends or family buying new guns and want to show me. They always hand it to me saying it’s unloaded and I always check. And I do that without any anticipation of pointing it at anyone or pulling the trigger. I can’t fathom not doing that if your job is to point it at others and pull the trigger.
But hopefully changes are made to make it clean anyone and everyone in chain of possession is liable.

I've handled guns probably less than most people here, but same... the few times I've been handed a gun (that I didn't intend to shoot) I've insisted on seeing the chamber rather than take someone's word alone that it's unloaded. 


My friend's brother is in the film industry, and personally knew the victim here... to say he's broken up about this is an understatement, he's beside himself. 
Hopefully some meaningful change does come out of this. 

I can't help but imagine how much safer America might be if every accidental shooting got as much attention as this one. 

Merkin Baller said:

I can't help but imagine how much safer America might be if every accidental shooting got as much attention as this one. 

Everything with celebrities gets more attention. Car crashes, divorces, lost dogs, etc.