George Floyd Protests

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Transcript of prosecution’s closing argument. If you’re open minded, it’s pretty damning.

https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-prosecution-closing-statement-transcript

The prosecutor slows down the video and explains it step by step like it happened for 3 minutes when in reality it took less than one. That is good prosecuting.

If they can actually prove that he pointed the gun at people then he goes to jail.  It doesn't seem like that was established though.

I saw/heard witness testimony to that effect. Somebody walking by the auto store where he was standing with other armed folks. And yellow pants guy, who the prosecution claims wouldn’t have made that up, given all we know of the defendant’s behavior. In the video played during trial, from my perspective, rittenhouse appears to be walking around, chest pumped out, with swagger, with his gun, pointed it at some folks, and wasn’t prepared for then being challenged by unarmed protesters who were set off. As opposed to the armed protesters who were in physical confrontation with protesters at the gas station. Rittenhouse repeatedly lied during the events and had no explanation for why he was carrying the AR15 if he was there to help. He lacked credibility and his witness stand tears weren’t genuine, IMO. The other prosecutor witnesses were credible and didn’t appear to waiver or get flummoxed. Rittenhouse, when pressed, didn’t have answers. He was like a kid caught and trying to get out of it. Taking the stand was a mistake.

Rittenhouse created the danger he put himself in and was not having his life threatened by Rosenbaum or the second or third assailants when he shot them. If I were a juror, I’d convict him on all four charges, based on the testimony and video evidence.

Yes, if he points a weapon then he creates the scenario that unfolds.  That is where self-defense becomes a gray area but I don't think the jury convicts after rethinking this.  It would how they perceive the law and if prosecution explained it that way.

I've flipped flopped on this after hearing more and more but it is like the Treyvon case, he put himself in the situation but had the right to defend himself.

He will get off.

cblock4life said:

facepollution said:

Acblock4life said:

facepollution said:

cblock4life said:

facepollution said:

cblock4life said:

facepollution said:

JB16057 said:

facepollution said:

JB16057 said:

facepollution said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

JB16057 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

maybe a mistrial and retrial in front of a less prejudiced judge would be better for everyone.

Self defense is still self defense no matter which judge is presiding.

the key is going to be the first victim. the 2nd hit him with the skateboard. the first did not and he was unarmed. kyle knows he was unarmed and he shot him 4 times. if you have an ar-15 and someone is unarmed, how is your life in danger? the crowd came after him after the first victim because he was an active shooter that just shot and killed someone.

you cannot claim self defense if your actions put you in the position to need to use deadly force. the prosecutor argued that beautifully.

Hmm, he was actively running away from him though, and only really fired when he realised the guy had gained too much pace on him and he wasn't going to get away, so he either faced a beating or having his gun taken from him and potentially used against himself.  If the argument is that he should have in the split moment accepted a beating, which reasonably still could have ended in his death (plenty of people are killed in fistfights, after all) I don't think many people if they had a gun in their hand would choose a beating.

To make it clear, I don't think Rittenhouse had any business being there that night, regardless of how noble his declared intentions may have been in terms of administering first aid, putting out fires etc.  I think it's pretty clear he had a very naive, childlike attitude towards the situation, and he very quickly found himself in a situation he clearly wasn't prepared for.  I think he thought the fact that he had a gun meant nobody would fuck with him, so when a crazy dude started chasing him completely unphased, even when Rittenhouse turned and pointed the gun at him, panic well and truly set in and he did what he had to do to defend himself in the moment.  

You also used the term active shooter, which I think is a bit of a stretch, at that point he had shot one person, in what was arguably a self-defence situation, then got chased by a hostile crowd.  He wasn't arbitrarily shooting people, in each incidence these individuals engaged with him in acts of aggression.

It's a difficult case, and I can certainly understand why people have no sympathy for him.  There's a huge politically charged narrative to the riots, and definitely a perceived right-wing element to anyone who tried to stand up against those protesting/rioting.  But if you take all that narrative away, what transpired, demonstrably fulfils the definition of self-defence, as I understand it.  The prosecution's point is absolutely null and void, the defence only have to prove that Rittenhouse feared the aggressor was about to commit an unlawful interference with his person.

There were plenty of armed citizens during all of these 2020 riots but this situation didn't happen anywhere else. I think Rosenbaum saw how young and innocent Rittenhouse looked and chose to go after him because of that. Specifically in Kenosha, there were plenty of much bigger guys with guns that didn't get attacked. That is what bullies do. They go after the weakest of the bunch.

In regards to your first point, the prosecutor said that Rittenhouse should've allowed Rosenbaum to beat him up instead of shooting him. If Rosenbaum had gotten his hands on Rittenhouse and disarmed him, we will never know what would've happened. What we do know is that Rosenbaum was one sick f*ck and had a violent past.

I saw a comment on a youtube video about the case referring to Rittenhouse as being like Forrest Gump's kid, and I couldn't help but laugh at how accurate the description was.  Very childlike, nowhere near savvy enough to navigate a situation like that, and absolutely a sitting target.

In terms of Rosenbaum, it takes a special type of crazy to run after an armed individual, regardless of how young and ineffective they look - not even a gun aimed at him was going to stop him from trying to attack Rittenhouse.  

I'd argue the nowhere near savvy to navigate a situation like that. He only shot the ones that were attacking him. At any point, he could've opened fire on the whole crowd but knew not to do that. He tried running away from Rosenbaum before having to shoot him. He could've shot as soon as Rosenbaum started running at him but he tried to do the right thing. He also had his chance to fire at Grosskreutz but didn't until he was an immediate danger to him. Rittenhouse has some serious self control. Some cops with full training wouldn't be able to navigate a situation like this.

I was more referring to the general situation.  During cross-examination, he didn't really seem to understand how his mere presence whilst carrying a gun would be perceived as extremely antagonistic, and that it would contradict his claims that he was there to administer first aid etc.  He was visually displaying mixed signals, and that made him very vulnerable.

I agree in terms of the other points you made, I think it's fairly clear that he only used force when he realised he had no other way to protect himself.

He had no right being there. I hope they fry him.

Objectively, he had the same right as anyone else that night.  However, he was essentially a child trying to act as a police officer/fireman/medic using a gun to assert himself in a very volatile situation.  Like I said earlier, I think he thought the fact he was carrying the gun would be enough to stop anyone from messing with him, and hadn't thought what he would do if someone challenged that notion.  This was pretty much evident when he ran from an unarmed guy who showed aggression towards him.  A more powerfully built, confident or world wary individual may have engaged in a fistfight, but this was a baby faced, home-schooled cause he was bullied, kid. 

Yes I was previously objective but you members who only show up once in a while don’t bother to get to know who you’re responding to. 

Oh and this “child” is a coward POS. 

What do you feel I need to know about you in order for you to remain objective?

He was a child at 17, I don't know what to say, kids make horrible decisions all the time, that's why there are laws restricting certain things like voting, drinking, owning weapons etc.

The case really isn't about whether he should have been there or not though, these are all just opinions.  The case in the eyes of the law is strictly regarding his perceived danger in those moments and the subsequent force he used.
  

Come on….this whole case and pretty much everything that happens in this country is politicized now. I’m sure many people on here know where I stand and how I feel about the left and right.  If you knew that/me from years of posting you would have known I was being objective.  But in all fairness you didn’t jump all over me, and neither did Lindamarie, it was the BJ or JB guy or girl who got BW t out of shape 

I think you're right about the politicization of everything, and this one is interesting because the riots/protests were a reaction to a black man being shot, and yet all the individuals, in this case, were white, yet it seems it's still perceived through that particular lens.  My take is that ultimately the law is meant to be an objective standard, which protects everyone, and therefore I think that should be the guide.  With that in mind, given the clear evidence, I can reconcile my beliefs that Rittenhouse is both morally wrong for being there, but was within his rights to defend himself.

I genuinely don't understand your point about you thinking you were/are being objective.  Tell me what your political leaning is if you think that would help my understanding of your view, or, you know, don't, whatever.....  As I've gotten older I've mostly stepped away from getting into heated exchanges with strangers online, but this case piqued my interest because I felt conflicted about what the hell this kid was doing there in the first place and his right to defend himself.  So far I've not really encountered anything to challenge my feelings, but I'm totally open to enlightenment    

  

I was trying to be objective by asking for the source rather than just repeating the alleged story of his mother taking him to the riot that,  to be honest, I only heard/read about on here.  

The fact that I believe everything is politicized may show you that I’m not a democrat or a republican.  I vote my conscience.  

And your belief that the law is meant to be objective is great if it only worked that way. Today’s release of the wrongfully convicted gentleman who spent more than two decades in jail for NOT killing Malcolm X is proof that the justice system is barely just at all.  

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/malcolm-x-killing-men-exonerated-muhammad-aziz-khalil-islam/

 No doubt I view things differently and can be very honest about how I feel about things.  Am I glad there’s one less pedaphile in the world, yes. Do I agree with carrying guns in public, no. Am I against the 2nd amendment, no. Do I own a gun, yes.  Do I hate Donald trump, yes.  Do I hate all republicans, no.  I planned on voting for trump when he first started campaigning then his grotesque personality reared its ugly head.  And he’s a spoiled pig whom all women should not respect.  

So I’m in the middle where I prefer to think of it as not wearing my rose colored glasses but being realistic while being morally sound. 

We all agree he was wrong, we all don’t agree that he is guilty due to self defense.  And if that’s the law then fine. Just don’t pretend that Justice is just because it’s not. 

And this all started because someone assumed I was being an ass rather than taking the time to see if I was even following this post for two days, which I wasn’t.  It’s called truth. That’s all I ask from people who post is to be honest. 

static111 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Transcript of prosecution’s closing argument. If you’re open minded, it’s pretty damning.

https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-prosecution-closing-statement-transcript

The prosecutor slows down the video and explains it step by step like it happened for 3 minutes when in reality it took less than one. That is good prosecuting.

If they can actually prove that he pointed the gun at people then he goes to jail.  It doesn't seem like that was established though.

I saw/heard witness testimony to that effect. Somebody walking by the auto store where he was standing with other armed folks. And yellow pants guy, who the prosecution claims wouldn’t have made that up, given all we know of the defendant’s behavior. In the video played during trial, from my perspective, rittenhouse appears to be walking around, chest pumped out, with swagger, with his gun, pointed it at some folks, and wasn’t prepared for then being challenged by unarmed protesters who were set off. As opposed to the armed protesters who were in physical confrontation with protesters at the gas station. Rittenhouse repeatedly lied during the events and had no explanation for why he was carrying the AR15 if he was there to help. He lacked credibility and his witness stand tears weren’t genuine, IMO. The other prosecutor witnesses were credible and didn’t appear to waiver or get flummoxed. Rittenhouse, when pressed, didn’t have answers. He was like a kid caught and trying to get out of it. Taking the stand was a mistake.

Rittenhouse created the danger he put himself in and was not having his life threatened by Rosenbaum or the second or third assailants when he shot them. If I were a juror, I’d convict him on all four charges, based on the testimony and video evidence.

Yes, if he points a weapon then he creates the scenario that unfolds.  That is where self-defense becomes a gray area but I don't think the jury convicts after rethinking this.  It would how they perceive the law and if prosecution explained it that way.

I've flipped flopped on this after hearing more and more but it is like the Treyvon case, he put himself in the situation but had the right to defend himself.

He will get off.

how did Treyvon put himself in the situation? he was out buying skittles when a racist shot him dead. 

Just what I was thinking

DewieCox said:

Prosecutor has been a joke, Judge has been a joke, and if he walks away scot free it will be a joke. He’s a little psycho bastard but I don’t think there was a ever a great case for charges as stiff as he got, but still plenty of evidence to prove some heavy charges.

cblock4life said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

i have a feeling this ends in a hung jury. 

it has been too politicized and people's opinions are too deeply entrenched for 12 people to be objective about it.

very possible...I can't imagine all 12 agreeing to even reckless endangerment

If thats the case, is the whole trial a hung jury, or just the charges they don't agree on?

i believe they can be hung on some charges and they can convict or acquit on others.

the problem is if the jury hangs on all of them he cannot be tried again.

I have a question, why can’t they retry him?  I thought double jeopardy only applied if they acquitted him?  If it’s hung on first degree, 2nd, you know the murder charges, they can’t retry? This is all so confusing!  

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Transcript of prosecution’s closing argument. If you’re open minded, it’s pretty damning.

https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-prosecution-closing-statement-transcript

The prosecutor slows down the video and explains it step by step like it happened for 3 minutes when in reality it took less than one. That is good prosecuting.

If they can actually prove that he pointed the gun at people then he goes to jail.  It doesn't seem like that was established though.

I saw/heard witness testimony to that effect. Somebody walking by the auto store where he was standing with other armed folks. And yellow pants guy, who the prosecution claims wouldn’t have made that up, given all we know of the defendant’s behavior. In the video played during trial, from my perspective, rittenhouse appears to be walking around, chest pumped out, with swagger, with his gun, pointed it at some folks, and wasn’t prepared for then being challenged by unarmed protesters who were set off. As opposed to the armed protesters who were in physical confrontation with protesters at the gas station. Rittenhouse repeatedly lied during the events and had no explanation for why he was carrying the AR15 if he was there to help. He lacked credibility and his witness stand tears weren’t genuine, IMO. The other prosecutor witnesses were credible and didn’t appear to waiver or get flummoxed. Rittenhouse, when pressed, didn’t have answers. He was like a kid caught and trying to get out of it. Taking the stand was a mistake.

Rittenhouse created the danger he put himself in and was not having his life threatened by Rosenbaum or the second or third assailants when he shot them. If I were a juror, I’d convict him on all four charges, based on the testimony and video evidence.

Yes, if he points a weapon then he creates the scenario that unfolds.  That is where self-defense becomes a gray area but I don't think the jury convicts after rethinking this.  It would how they perceive the law and if prosecution explained it that way.

I've flipped flopped on this after hearing more and more but it is like the Treyvon case, he put himself in the situation but had the right to defend himself.

He will get off.

tbergs said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Rittenhouse (autocorrect corrects it to Rotten House, makes me chuckle) raised his gun and pointed it at protesters, prior to Rosenbaum charging at him. That's a threat with a deadly weapon. What was Rosenbaum's threat? Being verbally abusive. Same-same? No, not even close. What have we all been told to do in an active, or potential active, shooter situation? Flee, hide or fight. What did Rosenbaum do? He chose to fight (try outrunning an AR15). Rittenhouse was an imminent threat. Rosenbaum decided to defend himself.

Rittenhouse wasn't old enough to possess the AR15. Its been argued ad-nauseam on these boards that illegal immigrants break the law the moment they cross the border illegally and as such are criminals and should be deported. Rittenhouse broke the law by being in possession of a firearm while underage. What right did he have to be present in illegal possession of a firearm? As opposed to Rosenbaum (regardless of his criminal history)? And, at the time he was threatened with imminent death, wasn't breaking the law, just exercising his freedom of speech? Particularly, in light of:

According to the criminal complaint, Black enlisted the help of Rittenhouse in guarding the Kenosha car dealership Car Source from property damage and looting. The complaint stated Black “volunteered to go out after curfew” and “asked Mr. Rittenhouse to join him.”

In interviews, the owner of Car Source has denied requesting help from either Black or Rittenhouse in protecting his dealership during the protests.

19-year-old charged with illegally supplying gun to Kyle Rittenhouse (nbcnews.com)

Wonder how all the repub constitutionalists on here feel about "interpretation" of the law by the judge and going against what the legislature intended?

Judge dismisses gun charge against Kyle Rittenhouse - Chicago Tribune

Lots of confusion and potential for different interpretation when you take into account that Wisconsin law allows for more stringent federal regulation to govern. But that seemingly went "poof" with the judge's dropping of the charge. I don't know if Rittenhouse can face federal civil rights or criminal charges.

WISCONSIN LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

But for a judge's ruling on a loophole and not allowing the charge to be considered by the jury and Rittenhouse to appeal, he won the White Privilege Lottery. Rittenhouse knew he wasn't old enough to possess the AR15 as evidenced by his friend's, who bought it for him, testimony. The judge could have very easily allowed the charge to be considered. And you can't tell me that Rittenhouse found the loophole in the law and knew he could get away with being in illegal possession of a firearm if he were caught.

Black testified that shortly after he got an AR-15-style rifle, Rittenhouse expressed interest in one. During a trip to Black's family's hunting property in May 2020, Black agreed to buy a rifle for Rittenhouse, who was 17 and couldn't lawfully buy or possess one.

Kyle Rittenhouse trial: Dominick Black, teen's friend, takes the stand (usatoday.com)

You don't have the right to instigate a confrontation that can potentially put your life or safety at risk, pointing a firearm, Rittenhouse, at someone who is not a current threat, protesters/Rosenbaum, and then claim self-defense when you indeed become threatened by the victim(s) of your instigation.

I highlighted that above statement because it's a misrepresentation of the active shooter response model. You only fight as a last resort, if cornered and unable to escape. If the guy with a gun is running away from you, don't run after him. That's just dumb. Anyway, just wanted to comment on that since I train our college in active shooter response and I would never tell anyone to chase the guy with a gun. Not your safest option.

static111 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Transcript of prosecution’s closing argument. If you’re open minded, it’s pretty damning.

https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-prosecution-closing-statement-transcript

The prosecutor slows down the video and explains it step by step like it happened for 3 minutes when in reality it took less than one. That is good prosecuting.

If they can actually prove that he pointed the gun at people then he goes to jail.  It doesn't seem like that was established though.

I saw/heard witness testimony to that effect. Somebody walking by the auto store where he was standing with other armed folks. And yellow pants guy, who the prosecution claims wouldn’t have made that up, given all we know of the defendant’s behavior. In the video played during trial, from my perspective, rittenhouse appears to be walking around, chest pumped out, with swagger, with his gun, pointed it at some folks, and wasn’t prepared for then being challenged by unarmed protesters who were set off. As opposed to the armed protesters who were in physical confrontation with protesters at the gas station. Rittenhouse repeatedly lied during the events and had no explanation for why he was carrying the AR15 if he was there to help. He lacked credibility and his witness stand tears weren’t genuine, IMO. The other prosecutor witnesses were credible and didn’t appear to waiver or get flummoxed. Rittenhouse, when pressed, didn’t have answers. He was like a kid caught and trying to get out of it. Taking the stand was a mistake.

Rittenhouse created the danger he put himself in and was not having his life threatened by Rosenbaum or the second or third assailants when he shot them. If I were a juror, I’d convict him on all four charges, based on the testimony and video evidence.

Yes, if he points a weapon then he creates the scenario that unfolds.  That is where self-defense becomes a gray area but I don't think the jury convicts after rethinking this.  It would how they perceive the law and if prosecution explained it that way.

I've flipped flopped on this after hearing more and more but it is like the Treyvon case, he put himself in the situation but had the right to defend himself.

He will get off.

how did Treyvon put himself in the situation? he was out buying skittles when a racist shot him dead. 

Just what I was thinking

mickeyrat said:

static111 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Transcript of prosecution’s closing argument. If you’re open minded, it’s pretty damning.

https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-prosecution-closing-statement-transcript

The prosecutor slows down the video and explains it step by step like it happened for 3 minutes when in reality it took less than one. That is good prosecuting.

If they can actually prove that he pointed the gun at people then he goes to jail.  It doesn't seem like that was established though.

I saw/heard witness testimony to that effect. Somebody walking by the auto store where he was standing with other armed folks. And yellow pants guy, who the prosecution claims wouldn’t have made that up, given all we know of the defendant’s behavior. In the video played during trial, from my perspective, rittenhouse appears to be walking around, chest pumped out, with swagger, with his gun, pointed it at some folks, and wasn’t prepared for then being challenged by unarmed protesters who were set off. As opposed to the armed protesters who were in physical confrontation with protesters at the gas station. Rittenhouse repeatedly lied during the events and had no explanation for why he was carrying the AR15 if he was there to help. He lacked credibility and his witness stand tears weren’t genuine, IMO. The other prosecutor witnesses were credible and didn’t appear to waiver or get flummoxed. Rittenhouse, when pressed, didn’t have answers. He was like a kid caught and trying to get out of it. Taking the stand was a mistake.

Rittenhouse created the danger he put himself in and was not having his life threatened by Rosenbaum or the second or third assailants when he shot them. If I were a juror, I’d convict him on all four charges, based on the testimony and video evidence.

Yes, if he points a weapon then he creates the scenario that unfolds.  That is where self-defense becomes a gray area but I don't think the jury convicts after rethinking this.  It would how they perceive the law and if prosecution explained it that way.

I've flipped flopped on this after hearing more and more but it is like the Treyvon case, he put himself in the situation but had the right to defend himself.

He will get off.

how did Treyvon put himself in the situation? he was out buying skittles when a racist shot him dead. 

Just what I was thinking

Zimmerman put himself in that situation....

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ok, the wording was confusing....

Halifax2TheMax said:

tbergs said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Rittenhouse (autocorrect corrects it to Rotten House, makes me chuckle) raised his gun and pointed it at protesters, prior to Rosenbaum charging at him. That's a threat with a deadly weapon. What was Rosenbaum's threat? Being verbally abusive. Same-same? No, not even close. What have we all been told to do in an active, or potential active, shooter situation? Flee, hide or fight. What did Rosenbaum do? He chose to fight (try outrunning an AR15). Rittenhouse was an imminent threat. Rosenbaum decided to defend himself.

Rittenhouse wasn't old enough to possess the AR15. Its been argued ad-nauseam on these boards that illegal immigrants break the law the moment they cross the border illegally and as such are criminals and should be deported. Rittenhouse broke the law by being in possession of a firearm while underage. What right did he have to be present in illegal possession of a firearm? As opposed to Rosenbaum (regardless of his criminal history)? And, at the time he was threatened with imminent death, wasn't breaking the law, just exercising his freedom of speech? Particularly, in light of:

According to the criminal complaint, Black enlisted the help of Rittenhouse in guarding the Kenosha car dealership Car Source from property damage and looting. The complaint stated Black “volunteered to go out after curfew” and “asked Mr. Rittenhouse to join him.”

In interviews, the owner of Car Source has denied requesting help from either Black or Rittenhouse in protecting his dealership during the protests.

19-year-old charged with illegally supplying gun to Kyle Rittenhouse (nbcnews.com)

Wonder how all the repub constitutionalists on here feel about "interpretation" of the law by the judge and going against what the legislature intended?

Judge dismisses gun charge against Kyle Rittenhouse - Chicago Tribune

Lots of confusion and potential for different interpretation when you take into account that Wisconsin law allows for more stringent federal regulation to govern. But that seemingly went "poof" with the judge's dropping of the charge. I don't know if Rittenhouse can face federal civil rights or criminal charges.

WISCONSIN LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

But for a judge's ruling on a loophole and not allowing the charge to be considered by the jury and Rittenhouse to appeal, he won the White Privilege Lottery. Rittenhouse knew he wasn't old enough to possess the AR15 as evidenced by his friend's, who bought it for him, testimony. The judge could have very easily allowed the charge to be considered. And you can't tell me that Rittenhouse found the loophole in the law and knew he could get away with being in illegal possession of a firearm if he were caught.

Black testified that shortly after he got an AR-15-style rifle, Rittenhouse expressed interest in one. During a trip to Black's family's hunting property in May 2020, Black agreed to buy a rifle for Rittenhouse, who was 17 and couldn't lawfully buy or possess one.

Kyle Rittenhouse trial: Dominick Black, teen's friend, takes the stand (usatoday.com)

You don't have the right to instigate a confrontation that can potentially put your life or safety at risk, pointing a firearm, Rittenhouse, at someone who is not a current threat, protesters/Rosenbaum, and then claim self-defense when you indeed become threatened by the victim(s) of your instigation.

I highlighted that above statement because it's a misrepresentation of the active shooter response model. You only fight as a last resort, if cornered and unable to escape. If the guy with a gun is running away from you, don't run after him. That's just dumb. Anyway, just wanted to comment on that since I train our college in active shooter response and I would never tell anyone to chase the guy with a gun. Not your safest option.

Some people might choose to run after a perceived threat of an active shooter to prevent a perceived active shooter from having multiple victims. Not dumb at all. And why did Rittenhouse fire three more shots after the first disabling shot? Another “responsible” gun possessor who knew the capability of his weapon and exercised “responsible” usage. Why did Rosenbaum chase him? We’ll never know because he’s dead, because of Rittenhouse’s ir”responsible” actions and conduct.