America's Gun Violence
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I hate the traffic and drunk driving deaths comparison with gun deaths. Drunk driving deaths were north of 50k when MADD got started and the 30K deaths today don’t compare as the number of total vehicle miles driven, cars on the road, etc. is way higher yet deaths decreased over the past 40 years. Think of all the changes to driving and automobiles, from licensing teens, road design & engineering, technology, raising the drinking age, etc. Compare that to the effort to reduce gun crime and mass shooting. Yea, right? If columbine and Sandy Hook didn’t change anything, nothing will. Lost cause. The only solution is a good guy with a gun. And thoughts and prayers.OnWis97 said:I cannot even pretend anymore...I am totally desensitized to the shootings. Perhaps that makes me part of the problem. But I highly doubt I am part of a very small club there. I recall reading that one of the recent shootings had eight deaths. Most of us probably remember the Columbine shooting; 13 deaths (plus the perps). Think about how much coverage that had; "Columbine" was as important of a word in our culture as "Watergate." And it isn't the number of casualties; it's that it was a fairly rare occurrence back then. Now if we get an entire month without 13 dead in a mass shooting, we should be ecstatic.
US culture is totally desensitized. We almost accept shootings the way we accept deaths in traffic collisions.* We just can't give every even the same attention we gave to Columbine. It's human nature, but the situation is just so tragic.
*Over 30,000/yr and I don't like the way we accept those, either, though we at least try to mitigate...
And there will be more. Just wait until the unvaxxed guy can’t get into, insert concert artist here, concert, or other “event.”09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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I read somewhere that legislation gets passed once a problem reaches a certain mathematical tipping point. That tipping point is when enough people are personally affected by the issue at hand.Halifax2TheMax said:
I hate the traffic and drunk driving deaths comparison with gun deaths. Drunk driving deaths were north of 50k when MADD got started and the 30K deaths today don’t compare as the number of total vehicle miles driven, cars on the road, etc. is way higher yet deaths decreased over the past 40 years. Think of all the changes to driving and automobiles, from licensing teens, road design & engineering, technology, raising the drinking age, etc. Compare that to the effort to reduce gun crime and mass shooting. Yea, right? If columbine and Sandy Hook didn’t change anything, nothing will. Lost cause. The only solution is a good guy with a gun. And thoughts and prayers.OnWis97 said:I cannot even pretend anymore...I am totally desensitized to the shootings. Perhaps that makes me part of the problem. But I highly doubt I am part of a very small club there. I recall reading that one of the recent shootings had eight deaths. Most of us probably remember the Columbine shooting; 13 deaths (plus the perps). Think about how much coverage that had; "Columbine" was as important of a word in our culture as "Watergate." And it isn't the number of casualties; it's that it was a fairly rare occurrence back then. Now if we get an entire month without 13 dead in a mass shooting, we should be ecstatic.
US culture is totally desensitized. We almost accept shootings the way we accept deaths in traffic collisions.* We just can't give every even the same attention we gave to Columbine. It's human nature, but the situation is just so tragic.
*Over 30,000/yr and I don't like the way we accept those, either, though we at least try to mitigate...
And there will be more. Just wait until the unvaxxed guy can’t get into, insert concert artist here, concert, or other “event.”
For drunk driving, it was 50K deaths
For opiate overdoses, 50K died from overdose people in 2019
Just the sheer size of the problem led to legislation
In 2020, gun violence killed ONLY ~20,000 Americans
It's scary to think that there won't be any meaningful legislation until 250% more people are killed by guns0 -
I understand that some people use the old "people die in collisions; do you want to ban cars?" BS, but that's not what I was doing. I'm saying that we accept those deaths because we value driving, speed, etc. and we (at least some of "we") similarly value gun culture. In both instances, we are generally OK with human collateral damage. As I briefly pointed out, we've mitigated collisions in some ways (e.g., drunk driving laws, safety features in vehicles, certain engineering changes on roadways, etc.). Essentially, nobody is against such mitigation. In the case of guns, a lot of people are against any mitigation because they've been tricked into thinking someone's going to take their guns away if anything changes (dissimilarly, airbags never had Rush telling people that the next step is "no more cars.").Halifax2TheMax said:
I hate the traffic and drunk driving deaths comparison with gun deaths. Drunk driving deaths were north of 50k when MADD got started and the 30K deaths today don’t compare as the number of total vehicle miles driven, cars on the road, etc. is way higher yet deaths decreased over the past 40 years. Think of all the changes to driving and automobiles, from licensing teens, road design & engineering, technology, raising the drinking age, etc. Compare that to the effort to reduce gun crime and mass shooting. Yea, right? If columbine and Sandy Hook didn’t change anything, nothing will. Lost cause. The only solution is a good guy with a gun. And thoughts and prayers.OnWis97 said:I cannot even pretend anymore...I am totally desensitized to the shootings. Perhaps that makes me part of the problem. But I highly doubt I am part of a very small club there. I recall reading that one of the recent shootings had eight deaths. Most of us probably remember the Columbine shooting; 13 deaths (plus the perps). Think about how much coverage that had; "Columbine" was as important of a word in our culture as "Watergate." And it isn't the number of casualties; it's that it was a fairly rare occurrence back then. Now if we get an entire month without 13 dead in a mass shooting, we should be ecstatic.
US culture is totally desensitized. We almost accept shootings the way we accept deaths in traffic collisions.* We just can't give every even the same attention we gave to Columbine. It's human nature, but the situation is just so tragic.
*Over 30,000/yr and I don't like the way we accept those, either, though we at least try to mitigate...
And there will be more. Just wait until the unvaxxed guy can’t get into, insert concert artist here, concert, or other “event.”
So I guess my point was we accept auto deaths and we accept gun deaths.
(I'm also in the transportation field and I actually think using a skilled, expensive, dangerous mode as our primary and often necessary mode is kind of crazy and it bugs me that we accept this and a whole lot of other things about our car-first culture bug me, too. So I see a parallel.)1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine
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My point was more about with one, cars and DD, actions were taken that made car travel safer, whereas with the other, we're removing restrictions, adding more guns to the mix and shouldn't be surprised by the increase in deaths. Every action has risks (stairs, ladders, crossing the street, grilling, candles, smoking, etc., etc., etc.) and people are killed doing them, regardless of all the things we try to do to mitigate the risks. And we'll never get to zero but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to mitigate them.OnWis97 said:
I understand that some people use the old "people die in collisions; do you want to ban cars?" BS, but that's not what I was doing. I'm saying that we accept those deaths because we value driving, speed, etc. and we (at least some of "we") similarly value gun culture. In both instances, we are generally OK with human collateral damage. As I briefly pointed out, we've mitigated collisions in some ways (e.g., drunk driving laws, safety features in vehicles, certain engineering changes on roadways, etc.). Essentially, nobody is against such mitigation. In the case of guns, a lot of people are against any mitigation because they've been tricked into thinking someone's going to take their guns away if anything changes (dissimilarly, airbags never had Rush telling people that the next step is "no more cars.").Halifax2TheMax said:
I hate the traffic and drunk driving deaths comparison with gun deaths. Drunk driving deaths were north of 50k when MADD got started and the 30K deaths today don’t compare as the number of total vehicle miles driven, cars on the road, etc. is way higher yet deaths decreased over the past 40 years. Think of all the changes to driving and automobiles, from licensing teens, road design & engineering, technology, raising the drinking age, etc. Compare that to the effort to reduce gun crime and mass shooting. Yea, right? If columbine and Sandy Hook didn’t change anything, nothing will. Lost cause. The only solution is a good guy with a gun. And thoughts and prayers.OnWis97 said:I cannot even pretend anymore...I am totally desensitized to the shootings. Perhaps that makes me part of the problem. But I highly doubt I am part of a very small club there. I recall reading that one of the recent shootings had eight deaths. Most of us probably remember the Columbine shooting; 13 deaths (plus the perps). Think about how much coverage that had; "Columbine" was as important of a word in our culture as "Watergate." And it isn't the number of casualties; it's that it was a fairly rare occurrence back then. Now if we get an entire month without 13 dead in a mass shooting, we should be ecstatic.
US culture is totally desensitized. We almost accept shootings the way we accept deaths in traffic collisions.* We just can't give every even the same attention we gave to Columbine. It's human nature, but the situation is just so tragic.
*Over 30,000/yr and I don't like the way we accept those, either, though we at least try to mitigate...
And there will be more. Just wait until the unvaxxed guy can’t get into, insert concert artist here, concert, or other “event.”
So I guess my point was we accept auto deaths and we accept gun deaths.
(I'm also in the transportation field and I actually think using a skilled, expensive, dangerous mode as our primary and often necessary mode is kind of crazy and it bugs me that we accept this and a whole lot of other things about our car-first culture bug me, too. So I see a parallel.)
Another example of risk mitigation would be passenger airline miles flown without major crashes resulting in death. When I was a kid, it seemed a large airliner went down weekly around the world. Now? Its a big event and when it happens, everyone comes together to understand why and take active steps to mitigate the next one. But then again, airline and car travel are not guaranteed in the Constitution or Ten Commandments. 'Murica.
To the bold, a majority of 'Muricans from both parties support mitigating risks from guns, but for the politicians beholden to the NRA. Personally, I won't live in, travel to, vacation, spend any time in states with lax gun laws. I'll try to mitigate my risk exposure.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Donald Trump TX State Wire TN State Wire PA State Wire OR State Wire OK State Wire NYC State Wire NY State Wire MN State Wire IL State Wire CA State Wire Fraternal Order of Police Patrick McHenry Mitch McConnell Police Media Crime Violent crime Police reform Coronavirus pandemic Homicide Government and politics DC WireHomicides are up, but GOP misleads with claims about blameBy DAVID KLEPPER and GARY FIELDS54 mins ago
WASHINGTON (AP) — “SKYROCKETING MURDER RATES,” claimed the National Fraternal Order of Police. “An explosion of violent crime," said Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell. “Democrat-run cities across the country who cut funding for police have seen increases in crime,” tweeted U.S. Rep. Patrick McHenry, R-N.C.
On social media and in political speeches, some Republicans and pro-police groups say last year's calls to slash spending on law enforcement have led to a dramatic rise in killings in cities overseen by Democrats.
The increases they cite are real, and several big cities did make cuts to police spending. But the reductions were mostly modest, and the same big increases in homicides are being seen nationwide — even in cities that increased police spending. At the same time, the rates for burglaries, drug offenses and many other types of crime are down in many cities across the country.
The effort to blame Democrats for crime may offer a preview of Republicans' strategy for upcoming elections: a new twist on an old “law and order” argument from the party's past, harkening back to President Richard Nixon.
Just as it did half a century ago, the argument ignores the complicated reasons for fluctuations in crime rates — a list that today includes the upheaval wrought by the coronavirus pandemic and protests that erupted after the killing of George Floyd by police.
“2020 was just a crazy complicated year where lots of things happened, and there are lots of potential explanations for why we saw these big changes,” said David Abrams, a University of Pennsylvania Law School professor, who tracks crime rates and is studying the impact of the pandemic. The bottom line? “It's complicated.”
Late last month, the National Fraternal Order of Police posted a graphic on social media showing big increases in the homicide rate in New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Minneapolis, Philadelphia, Washington, D.C., and Portland, Oregon — all cities currently led by Democrats. “The leadership in all of these cities turned the keys over to the ‘Defund the Police’ mob,” the post read.
The numbers in it were alarming: Homicides in Chicago, up by 22% through late May compared with the same period last year. In Minneapolis, homicides were up by 56%; in Portland, 800%.
Top Republicans have taken up the claim, too.
“Look at what’s happening where they’re defunding the police," former President Donald Trump said Saturday at the North Carolina GOP convention, echoing an argument he made on the campaign trail last year. "The crime rate is going up by 50, 60, 100%, 131% in one city.”
Killings have been on the rise since 2020, but the numbers don't tell the whole story about reductions in police spending or a troubling increase in homicides being seen throughout the country.
Last year in Minneapolis, city officials shifted $8 million — less than 5% of the police budget — to programs focused on community mental health and violence prevention. In February, they approved $6.4 million to hire new police officers after an unprecedented number of officers retired or went on extended medical leave following Floyd's killing.
In Portland, homicides were up from six in the first five months of 2020 to 38 in the first five months of 2021, according to city police data, a more than 530% increase. That's lower than the 800% increase claimed by the Fraternal Order of Police, which said it was based on homicides through May 25.
The city, a center of defund police efforts, trimmed its police budget last year by less than 4%, far short of the $50 million in cuts sought by activists.
This year, Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler, a Democrat, has sought greater funds for programs targeting gun violence, which he said is a national problem. “It has reached crisis proportions,” he said in March.
Los Angeles and Chicago have also seen double-digit increases in their homicide rates this year, and they did reduce spending on police. Chicago cut its police budget by 3%, largely by eliminating vacant positions. Los Angeles reduced spending on police by about 5% overall.
Yet homicide rates are also increasing in cities that didn't cut spending.
In Houston, a city led by a Democratic mayor, killings have increased, but so, too, has funding for police.
Nashville, Tennessee, also led by a Democratic mayor, increased the police budget but has seen homicides spike 50% so far this year over last.
Tulsa, Oklahoma, and Fresno, California, have also seen more killings so far in 2021. Both cities have Republican mayors.
Meanwhile, other types of crime are down, according to preliminary statistics and researchers who say crime initially dropped around the world after the pandemic began. While cities are reporting jumps in their homicide rate, there's been no similar increase in other crimes, like burglaries, robberies or drug offenses.
That's not what you'd expect if calls to defund the police were leading to a rash of crime, Abrams said.
“Any theory explaining the rise in homicides would also have to explain why we haven’t seen a spike in other kinds of crimes,” he said.
So why are killings up?
Economic losses and personal stress brought on by the pandemic are one suggestion. COVID-19 also disrupted in-person education and many community programs designed to quell violence. It put a strain on police departments, hospitals, courts and other institutions tasked with dealing with the impact of crime.
Other possibilities include rising gun ownership and the protests over police killings that could have emboldened criminals. Then there are the host of factors that contribute to localized violence, including gangs, drugs and poverty.
James Alan Fox, a criminologist and professor at Boston’s Northeastern University, said small changes to a police budget, or the party affiliation of a particular mayor, aren't likely to play a big role. Some violence fluctuations are part of long-standing problems.
“It's not related to which party is ruling," Fox said. “But you can win a lot of votes by pushing fear.”
Nixon used a similar argument in his successful 1968 presidential campaign, arguing that protests over civil rights “have torn 300 cities apart." The strategy helped galvanize support among white voters concerned about racial integration, according to Elizabeth Hinton, a Yale Law School professor who studies the history of criminalization in America.
Now, just as then, misleading claims about crime seem designed to exploit racism among white voters while ignoring the real reasons behind the increase in homicides, she said.
“Instead of linking this to COVID and mass unemployment and general anxiety, they’re saying that somehow calls to defund the police are behind this, as a way to justify more policing as a response,” Hinton said.
___
Associated Press writers Stefanie Dazio in Los Angeles, Don Babwin in Chicago and Terrence Fraser in New York contributed to this report.
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Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
Well, no wonder, repub governor in a red state. More guns are the answer.
Live updates: Child among 3 killed in shooting at Publix, June 10, 2021 (ajc.com)
09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Well, no wonder, repub governor in a red state. More guns are the answer.
Man Shot in the Mouth While Sitting on the Beach in Unprovoked Attack (msn.com)
09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Halifax2TheMax said:Well, no wonder, repub governor in a red state. More guns are the answer.
Man Shot in the Mouth While Sitting on the Beach in Unprovoked Attack (msn.com)It's not quite the delectable Rainier season, but who knew cherry picking could be so fun? Must have been those damn hayseed red state tourists running a muck up there. I'd go back further than last week but what's the point? I sure hope my in-laws are okay. Wait, am I allowed to mingle with those who have representatives that don't belong to the same fraternity? It's all so confusing. Wearing political blinders does nothing more than discredit the notion that you actually care. I'm sure you were just extending a hand, though.https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/police-driver-reports-getting-shot-on-lowell-connector/2396313/Here is one that might make you blush, given your affinity for geography and a specific color.
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Little late to the game, try to keep up. But thanks for all those examples from states with a repub governor. I appreciate the hand up.FiveBelow said:Halifax2TheMax said:Well, no wonder, repub governor in a red state. More guns are the answer.
Man Shot in the Mouth While Sitting on the Beach in Unprovoked Attack (msn.com)It's not quite the delectable Rainier season, but who knew cherry picking could be so fun? Must have been those damn hayseed red state tourists running a muck up there. I'd go back further than last week but what's the point? I sure hope my in-laws are okay. Wait, am I allowed to mingle with those who have representatives that don't belong to the same fraternity? It's all so confusing. Wearing political blinders does nothing more than discredit the notion that you actually care. I'm sure you were just extending a hand, though.https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/police-driver-reports-getting-shot-on-lowell-connector/2396313/Here is one that might make you blush, given your affinity for geography and a specific color.
Clearly, more guns are the answer.Post edited by Halifax2TheMax on09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
Are you really comparing the rate of gun violence in MA to that of TX?FiveBelow said:Halifax2TheMax said:Well, no wonder, repub governor in a red state. More guns are the answer.
Man Shot in the Mouth While Sitting on the Beach in Unprovoked Attack (msn.com)It's not quite the delectable Rainier season, but who knew cherry picking could be so fun? Must have been those damn hayseed red state tourists running a muck up there. I'd go back further than last week but what's the point? I sure hope my in-laws are okay. Wait, am I allowed to mingle with those who have representatives that don't belong to the same fraternity? It's all so confusing. Wearing political blinders does nothing more than discredit the notion that you actually care. I'm sure you were just extending a hand, though.https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/police-driver-reports-getting-shot-on-lowell-connector/2396313/Here is one that might make you blush, given your affinity for geography and a specific color.
In the same post where you're complaining about someone cherry picking data?0 -
Not at all. If you're against gun violence (which I think everyone here is) it would make more sense to talk about the fact that it is everywhere instead of just searching out the places you're are sworn against due to the idiots in charge. I don't know about you but the last people I look to for advice are politicians. This thread is called America's Gun Violence. Every post is aimed at the other side being the cause, If you are against it, then show that you care when it happens in your own backyard. Not sure how this could be seen as comparing, just pointing out that his posts are catered to his political views only and that doesn't seem like caring to me. Seems like cherry picking.Merkin Baller said:
Are you really comparing the rate of gun violence in MA to that of TX?FiveBelow said:Halifax2TheMax said:Well, no wonder, repub governor in a red state. More guns are the answer.
Man Shot in the Mouth While Sitting on the Beach in Unprovoked Attack (msn.com)It's not quite the delectable Rainier season, but who knew cherry picking could be so fun? Must have been those damn hayseed red state tourists running a muck up there. I'd go back further than last week but what's the point? I sure hope my in-laws are okay. Wait, am I allowed to mingle with those who have representatives that don't belong to the same fraternity? It's all so confusing. Wearing political blinders does nothing more than discredit the notion that you actually care. I'm sure you were just extending a hand, though.https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/police-driver-reports-getting-shot-on-lowell-connector/2396313/Here is one that might make you blush, given your affinity for geography and a specific color.
In the same post where you're complaining about someone cherry picking data?
Post edited by FiveBelow on0 -
Cherry picking:
States with the Most (& Least) Gun Deaths [+ Causes] (usinsuranceagents.com)
Tejas: 12.4 per !00,000
Massachusetts: 3.7 per 100,000
Regardless of the source, the numbers remain comparable. Get back to me when Tejas is more like Massachusetts. Or, go back to page 1 of this thread and read all of my posts to understand where I'm coming from rather than reading one cherrypicked post of mine. It'll make you blush.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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Another "responsible" gun owner. The victim was outside the home. "Responsible" gun owner shot the victim through the door.
Man mistaken for intruder fatally shot by best friend (msn.com)
09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
FiveBelow said:
Not at all. If you're against gun violence (which I think everyone here is) it would make more sense to talk about the fact that it is everywhere instead of just searching out the places you're are sworn against due to the idiots in charge. I don't know about you but the last people I look to for advice are politicians. This thread is called America's Gun Violence. Every post is aimed at the other side being the cause, If you are against it, then show that you care when it happens in your own backyard. Not sure how this could be seen as comparing, just pointing out that his posts are catered to his political views only and that doesn't seem like caring to me. Seems like cherry picking.Merkin Baller said:
Are you really comparing the rate of gun violence in MA to that of TX?FiveBelow said:Halifax2TheMax said:Well, no wonder, repub governor in a red state. More guns are the answer.
Man Shot in the Mouth While Sitting on the Beach in Unprovoked Attack (msn.com)It's not quite the delectable Rainier season, but who knew cherry picking could be so fun? Must have been those damn hayseed red state tourists running a muck up there. I'd go back further than last week but what's the point? I sure hope my in-laws are okay. Wait, am I allowed to mingle with those who have representatives that don't belong to the same fraternity? It's all so confusing. Wearing political blinders does nothing more than discredit the notion that you actually care. I'm sure you were just extending a hand, though.https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/police-driver-reports-getting-shot-on-lowell-connector/2396313/Here is one that might make you blush, given your affinity for geography and a specific color.
In the same post where you're complaining about someone cherry picking data?
How is bringing up gun violence in MA in response to criticism of gun violence in TX not cherry picking?
No one's denying that gun violence is everywhere in this shit hole country of ours... with that being said, MA has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation, and wouldn't you know it, one of the lowest rates of death by firearm... WAY lower than Texas. Go figure.
It's almost as if gun laws work, despite everything you've been told.0 -
Or the socioeconomics between the two?Merkin Baller said:FiveBelow said:
Not at all. If you're against gun violence (which I think everyone here is) it would make more sense to talk about the fact that it is everywhere instead of just searching out the places you're are sworn against due to the idiots in charge. I don't know about you but the last people I look to for advice are politicians. This thread is called America's Gun Violence. Every post is aimed at the other side being the cause, If you are against it, then show that you care when it happens in your own backyard. Not sure how this could be seen as comparing, just pointing out that his posts are catered to his political views only and that doesn't seem like caring to me. Seems like cherry picking.Merkin Baller said:
Are you really comparing the rate of gun violence in MA to that of TX?FiveBelow said:Halifax2TheMax said:Well, no wonder, repub governor in a red state. More guns are the answer.
Man Shot in the Mouth While Sitting on the Beach in Unprovoked Attack (msn.com)It's not quite the delectable Rainier season, but who knew cherry picking could be so fun? Must have been those damn hayseed red state tourists running a muck up there. I'd go back further than last week but what's the point? I sure hope my in-laws are okay. Wait, am I allowed to mingle with those who have representatives that don't belong to the same fraternity? It's all so confusing. Wearing political blinders does nothing more than discredit the notion that you actually care. I'm sure you were just extending a hand, though.https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/police-driver-reports-getting-shot-on-lowell-connector/2396313/Here is one that might make you blush, given your affinity for geography and a specific color.
In the same post where you're complaining about someone cherry picking data?
How is bringing up gun violence in MA in response to criticism of gun violence in TX not cherry picking?
No one's denying that gun violence is everywhere in this shit hole country of ours... with that being said, MA has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation, and wouldn't you know it, one of the lowest rates of death by firearm... WAY lower than Texas. Go figure.
It's almost as if gun laws work, despite everything you've been told.0 -
I still say if things are to change, the media needs to start showing the actual aftermath of these shooting on TV and in print. Show pictures of the 70 year old grandma with her chest partly blown out in a church pew, a head shot father slumped over a shopping cart, the lifeless bodies of kids bled out in a school hallway. Stick it in people’s faces, especially the politicians.
0 -
Won't do anything. You see that in videogames and movies already. Desensitizing is the word.jerparker20 said:I still say if things are to change, the media needs to start showing the actual aftermath of these shooting on TV and in print. Show pictures of the 70 year old grandma with her chest partly blown out in a church pew, a head shot father slumped over a shopping cart, the lifeless bodies of kids bled out in a school hallway. Stick it in people’s faces, especially the politicians.0 -
Merkin Baller said:FiveBelow said:
Not at all. If you're against gun violence (which I think everyone here is) it would make more sense to talk about the fact that it is everywhere instead of just searching out the places you're are sworn against due to the idiots in charge. I don't know about you but the last people I look to for advice are politicians. This thread is called America's Gun Violence. Every post is aimed at the other side being the cause, If you are against it, then show that you care when it happens in your own backyard. Not sure how this could be seen as comparing, just pointing out that his posts are catered to his political views only and that doesn't seem like caring to me. Seems like cherry picking.Merkin Baller said:
Are you really comparing the rate of gun violence in MA to that of TX?FiveBelow said:Halifax2TheMax said:Well, no wonder, repub governor in a red state. More guns are the answer.
Man Shot in the Mouth While Sitting on the Beach in Unprovoked Attack (msn.com)It's not quite the delectable Rainier season, but who knew cherry picking could be so fun? Must have been those damn hayseed red state tourists running a muck up there. I'd go back further than last week but what's the point? I sure hope my in-laws are okay. Wait, am I allowed to mingle with those who have representatives that don't belong to the same fraternity? It's all so confusing. Wearing political blinders does nothing more than discredit the notion that you actually care. I'm sure you were just extending a hand, though.https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/police-driver-reports-getting-shot-on-lowell-connector/2396313/Here is one that might make you blush, given your affinity for geography and a specific color.
In the same post where you're complaining about someone cherry picking data?
How is bringing up gun violence in MA in response to criticism of gun violence in TX not cherry picking?
No one's denying that gun violence is everywhere in this shit hole country of ours... with that being said, MA has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation, and wouldn't you know it, one of the lowest rates of death by firearm... WAY lower than Texas. Go figure.
It's almost as if gun laws work, despite everything you've been told.You are manufacturing a comparison, where in my post did I ever compare anything? Texas was not even the state I responded to him about if you want to go back and read the thread. I showed him that if you want to talk about gun violence then all he would need to do is turn on the local news instead of searching out an agenda piece. To show that I am not a political goon I shared an article from my hometown as an example of how easy it is.Clearly gun violence isn't equal.0 -
Fair enough.FiveBelow said:Merkin Baller said:FiveBelow said:
Not at all. If you're against gun violence (which I think everyone here is) it would make more sense to talk about the fact that it is everywhere instead of just searching out the places you're are sworn against due to the idiots in charge. I don't know about you but the last people I look to for advice are politicians. This thread is called America's Gun Violence. Every post is aimed at the other side being the cause, If you are against it, then show that you care when it happens in your own backyard. Not sure how this could be seen as comparing, just pointing out that his posts are catered to his political views only and that doesn't seem like caring to me. Seems like cherry picking.Merkin Baller said:
Are you really comparing the rate of gun violence in MA to that of TX?FiveBelow said:Halifax2TheMax said:Well, no wonder, repub governor in a red state. More guns are the answer.
Man Shot in the Mouth While Sitting on the Beach in Unprovoked Attack (msn.com)It's not quite the delectable Rainier season, but who knew cherry picking could be so fun? Must have been those damn hayseed red state tourists running a muck up there. I'd go back further than last week but what's the point? I sure hope my in-laws are okay. Wait, am I allowed to mingle with those who have representatives that don't belong to the same fraternity? It's all so confusing. Wearing political blinders does nothing more than discredit the notion that you actually care. I'm sure you were just extending a hand, though.https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/police-driver-reports-getting-shot-on-lowell-connector/2396313/Here is one that might make you blush, given your affinity for geography and a specific color.
In the same post where you're complaining about someone cherry picking data?
How is bringing up gun violence in MA in response to criticism of gun violence in TX not cherry picking?
No one's denying that gun violence is everywhere in this shit hole country of ours... with that being said, MA has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation, and wouldn't you know it, one of the lowest rates of death by firearm... WAY lower than Texas. Go figure.
It's almost as if gun laws work, despite everything you've been told.You are manufacturing a comparison, where in my post did I ever compare anything? Texas was not even the state I responded to him about if you want to go back and read the thread. I showed him that if you want to talk about gun violence then all he would need to do is turn on the local news instead of searching out an agenda piece. To show that I am not a political goon I shared an article from my hometown as an example of how easy it is.Clearly gun violence isn't equal.
Missed the part about Miami ... I found it odd that all 6 of your examples were from MA... I guess I inferred something that wasn't there.0 -
No worries. I am not here to bash or push anything on anyone. Just to offer a different perspective from time to time.Merkin Baller said:
Fair enough.FiveBelow said:Merkin Baller said:FiveBelow said:
Not at all. If you're against gun violence (which I think everyone here is) it would make more sense to talk about the fact that it is everywhere instead of just searching out the places you're are sworn against due to the idiots in charge. I don't know about you but the last people I look to for advice are politicians. This thread is called America's Gun Violence. Every post is aimed at the other side being the cause, If you are against it, then show that you care when it happens in your own backyard. Not sure how this could be seen as comparing, just pointing out that his posts are catered to his political views only and that doesn't seem like caring to me. Seems like cherry picking.Merkin Baller said:
Are you really comparing the rate of gun violence in MA to that of TX?FiveBelow said:Halifax2TheMax said:Well, no wonder, repub governor in a red state. More guns are the answer.
Man Shot in the Mouth While Sitting on the Beach in Unprovoked Attack (msn.com)It's not quite the delectable Rainier season, but who knew cherry picking could be so fun? Must have been those damn hayseed red state tourists running a muck up there. I'd go back further than last week but what's the point? I sure hope my in-laws are okay. Wait, am I allowed to mingle with those who have representatives that don't belong to the same fraternity? It's all so confusing. Wearing political blinders does nothing more than discredit the notion that you actually care. I'm sure you were just extending a hand, though.https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/police-driver-reports-getting-shot-on-lowell-connector/2396313/Here is one that might make you blush, given your affinity for geography and a specific color.
In the same post where you're complaining about someone cherry picking data?
How is bringing up gun violence in MA in response to criticism of gun violence in TX not cherry picking?
No one's denying that gun violence is everywhere in this shit hole country of ours... with that being said, MA has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation, and wouldn't you know it, one of the lowest rates of death by firearm... WAY lower than Texas. Go figure.
It's almost as if gun laws work, despite everything you've been told.You are manufacturing a comparison, where in my post did I ever compare anything? Texas was not even the state I responded to him about if you want to go back and read the thread. I showed him that if you want to talk about gun violence then all he would need to do is turn on the local news instead of searching out an agenda piece. To show that I am not a political goon I shared an article from my hometown as an example of how easy it is.Clearly gun violence isn't equal.
Missed the part about Miami ... I found it odd that all 6 of your examples were from MA... I guess I inferred something that wasn't there.0
This discussion has been closed.
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