Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez
Comments
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And anyone willing to have a real conversation with people from other viewpoints instead of jumping to conclusions ot calling names will get to understand their points.
i was against socialized health for a very long time. Only recently did I begin to be open to it, and it’s not because I think it’s a great idea, but our current system continues to get worse. The biggest hurdle for me, and for just about anyone I have a real conversation with, isn’t that they are unwilling to help others or that some people just don’t deserve it. But it comes down to 1 thing. They don’t trust the government to run it effectively. And why would they? Has anyone ever met someone coming out of the DMV and say “wow. That was a great experience?” Literally every single thing run by the government has major flaws. Social Security is almost bankrupt, postal service sucks and is inefficient, the VA is corrupt and lets veterans die before taking care of them, our school system sucks. Why would medicine be the one thing we get right? It probably wouldn’t be, it would probably suck too. And those who are against it think, just like the DMV, they’ll die in the waiting room. But I’m at the point where a poorly run government health plan is probably better than this for greed system we have now.0 -
"MIGHT JUST BE THE SAME PEOPLE"mace1229 said:
It wasn’t just health. It was free college and a bunch of other stuff wrapped up in a $40 trillion increase to our budget.HughFreakingDillon said:it's funny how all the people who criticize AOC for her response to "how are you going to pay for it?" with regards to basic human needs/rights might just be the same people that are a-ok with the government writing blank cheques in the name of protecting their "freedom".
you know what she's doing? showing you for the hypocrites you are.
And I’m not okay with blank checks for military either. I think everything should be cut back until we can reduce, or at least stabilize our debt.
There’s nothing hypocritical about criticizing someone who wants to spend $40 trillion with zero clue on how to pay for it. Who’s it going to help when the economy crashes and there is no government assistance at all?
criticism is warranted of any politician, but my own observation, with obvious exceptions, is that many fall into that category. no need to get offended if it doesn't apply to you.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
better than leaving it to capitalists. does socialized healthcare have its flaws? obviously. but losing your home or dying because of a procedure you had no control over isn't one of them. dying in the waiting room also isn't one of them.mace1229 said:And anyone willing to have a real conversation with people from other viewpoints instead of jumping to conclusions ot calling names will get to understand their points.
i was against socialized health for a very long time. Only recently did I begin to be open to it, and it’s not because I think it’s a great idea, but our current system continues to get worse. The biggest hurdle for me, and for just about anyone I have a real conversation with, isn’t that they are unwilling to help others or that some people just don’t deserve it. But it comes down to 1 thing. They don’t trust the government to run it effectively. And why would they? Has anyone ever met someone coming out of the DMV and say “wow. That was a great experience?” Literally every single thing run by the government has major flaws. Social Security is almost bankrupt, postal service sucks and is inefficient, the VA is corrupt and lets veterans die before taking care of them, our school system sucks. Why would medicine be the one thing we get right? It probably wouldn’t be, it would probably suck too. And those who are against it think, just like the DMV, they’ll die in the waiting room. But I’m at the point where a poorly run government health plan is probably better than this for greed system we have now.
yes, there is unending corruption and waste in government, dare i say, on both sides. but as you've stated, the "for greed" system isn't sustainable for health of the populace.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
I thought you were saying anyone critical of AOC and her plan, or lack thereof, is a hypocrite. Politician or not.HughFreakingDillon said:
"MIGHT JUST BE THE SAME PEOPLE"mace1229 said:
It wasn’t just health. It was free college and a bunch of other stuff wrapped up in a $40 trillion increase to our budget.HughFreakingDillon said:it's funny how all the people who criticize AOC for her response to "how are you going to pay for it?" with regards to basic human needs/rights might just be the same people that are a-ok with the government writing blank cheques in the name of protecting their "freedom".
you know what she's doing? showing you for the hypocrites you are.
And I’m not okay with blank checks for military either. I think everything should be cut back until we can reduce, or at least stabilize our debt.
There’s nothing hypocritical about criticizing someone who wants to spend $40 trillion with zero clue on how to pay for it. Who’s it going to help when the economy crashes and there is no government assistance at all?
criticism is warranted of any politician, but my own observation, with obvious exceptions, is that many fall into that category. no need to get offended if it doesn't apply to you.0 -
nope. could easily be the way i communicate online. sometimes i make mistakes in how i flesh out an idea in print. i take ownership of that.mace1229 said:
I thought you were saying anyone critical of AOC and her plan, or lack thereof, is a hypocrite. Politician or not.HughFreakingDillon said:
"MIGHT JUST BE THE SAME PEOPLE"mace1229 said:
It wasn’t just health. It was free college and a bunch of other stuff wrapped up in a $40 trillion increase to our budget.HughFreakingDillon said:it's funny how all the people who criticize AOC for her response to "how are you going to pay for it?" with regards to basic human needs/rights might just be the same people that are a-ok with the government writing blank cheques in the name of protecting their "freedom".
you know what she's doing? showing you for the hypocrites you are.
And I’m not okay with blank checks for military either. I think everything should be cut back until we can reduce, or at least stabilize our debt.
There’s nothing hypocritical about criticizing someone who wants to spend $40 trillion with zero clue on how to pay for it. Who’s it going to help when the economy crashes and there is no government assistance at all?
criticism is warranted of any politician, but my own observation, with obvious exceptions, is that many fall into that category. no need to get offended if it doesn't apply to you.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
Thanks for clarifying. I think most politicians, on both sides, are hypocrites.HughFreakingDillon said:
nope. could easily be the way i communicate online. sometimes i make mistakes in how i flesh out an idea in print. i take ownership of that.mace1229 said:
I thought you were saying anyone critical of AOC and her plan, or lack thereof, is a hypocrite. Politician or not.HughFreakingDillon said:
"MIGHT JUST BE THE SAME PEOPLE"mace1229 said:
It wasn’t just health. It was free college and a bunch of other stuff wrapped up in a $40 trillion increase to our budget.HughFreakingDillon said:it's funny how all the people who criticize AOC for her response to "how are you going to pay for it?" with regards to basic human needs/rights might just be the same people that are a-ok with the government writing blank cheques in the name of protecting their "freedom".
you know what she's doing? showing you for the hypocrites you are.
And I’m not okay with blank checks for military either. I think everything should be cut back until we can reduce, or at least stabilize our debt.
There’s nothing hypocritical about criticizing someone who wants to spend $40 trillion with zero clue on how to pay for it. Who’s it going to help when the economy crashes and there is no government assistance at all?
criticism is warranted of any politician, but my own observation, with obvious exceptions, is that many fall into that category. no need to get offended if it doesn't apply to you.0 -
could easily be my bias, but i think that tends to favour republicans.mace1229 said:
Thanks for clarifying. I think most politicians, on both sides, are hypocrites.HughFreakingDillon said:
nope. could easily be the way i communicate online. sometimes i make mistakes in how i flesh out an idea in print. i take ownership of that.mace1229 said:
I thought you were saying anyone critical of AOC and her plan, or lack thereof, is a hypocrite. Politician or not.HughFreakingDillon said:
"MIGHT JUST BE THE SAME PEOPLE"mace1229 said:
It wasn’t just health. It was free college and a bunch of other stuff wrapped up in a $40 trillion increase to our budget.HughFreakingDillon said:it's funny how all the people who criticize AOC for her response to "how are you going to pay for it?" with regards to basic human needs/rights might just be the same people that are a-ok with the government writing blank cheques in the name of protecting their "freedom".
you know what she's doing? showing you for the hypocrites you are.
And I’m not okay with blank checks for military either. I think everything should be cut back until we can reduce, or at least stabilize our debt.
There’s nothing hypocritical about criticizing someone who wants to spend $40 trillion with zero clue on how to pay for it. Who’s it going to help when the economy crashes and there is no government assistance at all?
criticism is warranted of any politician, but my own observation, with obvious exceptions, is that many fall into that category. no need to get offended if it doesn't apply to you.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
I don;t think that has been established. But you need to run it like a real company not a private company led by a dictator.gimmesometruth27 said:
except you cannot run a country the same way as you run a company. this has been established. look at the amazing businessman who is floundering in the white house right now.mace1229 said:
Right. People don’t hate her because she’s a woman or young or attractive. It’s she wants to spend $40 trillion and her answer on how to pay for it is “you just pay it.” If she ran a company the way she wants to run the US it would be bankrupt and people wouldn’t be getting their paychecks within months.nicknyr15 said:
Again, once people get over her age, race and gender, you can see she’s completely full of you know what.mace1229 said:
Has she given details on how she’s paying for anything?oftenreading said:
Sure. Did she give details in how she’s going about it in the speech that concerned you?cincybearcat said:
It's all in how you feel you need to go about it.oftenreading said:cincybearcat said:Her speech did highlight major concern on mine with her thoughts and beliefs. She said she goes to work in Congress to make sure her constituents have a roof over their heads. Government providing. Everything.
I would hope that all elected officials are toward every constituent having a roof over their head, clean and safe water, accessible health care, safe schools, and the rest of what makes a decent society. That's not the same thing as "government providing everything".Everyone wants what she wants. We all want good healthcare for everyone and a roof, and food and good schools and the latest Air Jordan’s. The problem is some realize it costs more money than we have. Others just want to run up the debt and let the next generation worry about it. From what I can tell she’s the spend everything now and let others worry about it later type.
But you bring that up and the response is “you’re just afraid of smart young females.”
hippiemom = goodness0 -
I love her new green deal. Love it. The cost to actually go through with it is a bit robust though.
Do I think college can be free? Sure can. Why a university costs 25K and up to attend is mind boggling.0 -
That actually isn’t that outrageous when you consider states pay schools 10-20k per student in funding. It could be cut back some, but I don’t see how to make it free without a significant increase in taxes.tempo_n_groove said:I love her new green deal. Love it. The cost to actually go through with it is a bit robust though.
Do I think college can be free? Sure can. Why a university costs 25K and up to attend is mind boggling.A college is going to have better facilities and equipment and wider range of options. But a public school has some other expenses too.
The biggest waste in college funding is how many classes professors take (other than coaches salaries). Many profs only teach 2 classes each semester. Literally 2 classes on M,W, F and that’s it in terms of teaching. They may have other obligations that make the school look better, like conducting research or a book deal or something. But those don’t really do a lot for kids. To me it’s kind of a joke to have a full time instructor literally teach 6 hours a week and the rest of their job is making the school look good.
Have teachers teach 20-25 hours a week will still allow plenty of time for grade Nd and prepping, etc. and put the other things as a side project, you could cut staff by more than half. School may then only cost 15-20k, and that seems reasonable. Not cheap I know, but on par with what k-12 education costs.Post edited by mace1229 on0 -
I'm not a fan.0
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Don't get me started on the subsidizing of colleges...mace1229 said:
That actually isn’t that outrageous when you consider states pay schools 10-20k per student in funding. It could be cut back some, but I don’t see how to make it free without a significant increase in taxes.tempo_n_groove said:I love her new green deal. Love it. The cost to actually go through with it is a bit robust though.
Do I think college can be free? Sure can. Why a university costs 25K and up to attend is mind boggling.A college is going to have better facilities and equipment and wider range of options. But a public school has some other expenses too.
The biggest waste in college funding is how many classes professors take (other than coaches salaries). Many profs only teach 2 classes each semester. Literally 2 classes on M,W, F and that’s it in terms of teaching. They may have other obligations that make the school look better, like conducting research or a book deal or something. But those don’t really do a lot for kids. To me it’s kind of a joke to have a full time instructor literally teach 6 hours a week and the rest of their job is making the school look good.
Have teachers teach 20-25 hours a week will still allow plenty of time for grade Nd and prepping, etc. and put the other things as a side project, you could cut staff by more than half. School may then only cost 15-20k, and that seems reasonable. Not cheap I know, but on par with what k-12 education costs.0 -
College costs and facilities are ridiculous. College should be two to three years max unless it is a field of public safety/health (health, engineering, etc...).
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Yes they are. When I went to school, it was spartan living. Now the amenities are crazy, as schools compete for students with those amenities. There are a ton of factors that have driven the cost of tuition so far ahead of inflation, but this is certainly one of them.bootlegger10 said:College costs and facilities are ridiculous. College should be two to three years max unless it is a field of public safety/health (health, engineering, etc...).0 -
Did you walk uphill both ways too?mrussel1 said:
Yes they are. When I went to school, it was spartan living. Now the amenities are crazy, as schools compete for students with those amenities. There are a ton of factors that have driven the cost of tuition so far ahead of inflation, but this is certainly one of them.bootlegger10 said:College costs and facilities are ridiculous. College should be two to three years max unless it is a field of public safety/health (health, engineering, etc...).hippiemom = goodness0 -
Riddle me this. If the government sets the rate for student loans, why can’t they set it at zero? That would make the cost much easier to bear for those that have to borrow. It’s not like the government doesn’t have a history of giving 0 interest loans to big business because of the return they get in the long run. Imagine the return you could get from people that aren’t overburdened by student loan debt. I personally have paid more than I originally borrowed and am now on the downhill slope, though I still owe a considerable amount. If I had 0 interest the loan would have likely been paid off years ago and I could be thinking about home ownership and other things of that nature by now...mrussel1 said:
Yes they are. When I went to school, it was spartan living. Now the amenities are crazy, as schools compete for students with those amenities. There are a ton of factors that have driven the cost of tuition so far ahead of inflation, but this is certainly one of them.bootlegger10 said:College costs and facilities are ridiculous. College should be two to three years max unless it is a field of public safety/health (health, engineering, etc...).Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0 -
Perhaps, but don't you think the tuition costs are outrageous today? It's a combination of facilities (sports and students), reduced state funding, fair number of students with zero or low tuition (of which I'm supportive), and a number of professors who teach few classes. I think people would be surprised at how few classes tenured professors teach. They are expected to publish. If we want to lower the cost curve, the expense line has to change.cincybearcat said:
Did you walk uphill both ways too?mrussel1 said:
Yes they are. When I went to school, it was spartan living. Now the amenities are crazy, as schools compete for students with those amenities. There are a ton of factors that have driven the cost of tuition so far ahead of inflation, but this is certainly one of them.bootlegger10 said:College costs and facilities are ridiculous. College should be two to three years max unless it is a field of public safety/health (health, engineering, etc...).0 -
I don't know why the Felps program can't be zero, honestly. It probably could be and should be. They shouldn't be dischargeable in bankruptcy, so might as well ease the burden. Are your loans all federal or do you have private in there too? Many people don't qualify for the felps program but still can't afford tuition.static111 said:
Riddle me this. If the government sets the rate for student loans, why can’t they set it at zero? That would make the cost much easier to bear for those that have to borrow. It’s not like the government doesn’t have a history of giving 0 interest loans to big business because of the return they get in the long run. Imagine the return you could get from people that aren’t overburdened by student loan debt. I personally have paid more than I originally borrowed and am now on the downhill slope, though I still owe a considerable amount. If I had 0 interest the loan would have likely been paid off years ago and I could be thinking about home ownership and other things of that nature by now...mrussel1 said:
Yes they are. When I went to school, it was spartan living. Now the amenities are crazy, as schools compete for students with those amenities. There are a ton of factors that have driven the cost of tuition so far ahead of inflation, but this is certainly one of them.bootlegger10 said:College costs and facilities are ridiculous. College should be two to three years max unless it is a field of public safety/health (health, engineering, etc...).0 -
All Federal. I was at least smart enough to not get myself into private debt. The only debt that my wife and I have is student loans. It's ridiculous. Always pay on time etc. sometimes it seems insurmountable, but luckily we are finally on the downhill slope. So unless something goes horrifically wrong we are finally both on our way to seeing a lower balance each month. And when we have extra we throw it at them. The sad thing is when I went to university I was covered with scholarships and grants. It was upon learning a trade at the local CC that I took out most of my loans, while working three jobs! And this was one of the most affordable schools in one of the poorest states in the nation. Luckily I did get set on a decent career in the welding industry...of course Covid isn't helping with that right now.mrussel1 said:
I don't know why the Felps program can't be zero, honestly. It probably could be and should be. They shouldn't be dischargeable in bankruptcy, so might as well ease the burden. Are your loans all federal or do you have private in there too? Many people don't qualify for the felps program but still can't afford tuition.static111 said:
Riddle me this. If the government sets the rate for student loans, why can’t they set it at zero? That would make the cost much easier to bear for those that have to borrow. It’s not like the government doesn’t have a history of giving 0 interest loans to big business because of the return they get in the long run. Imagine the return you could get from people that aren’t overburdened by student loan debt. I personally have paid more than I originally borrowed and am now on the downhill slope, though I still owe a considerable amount. If I had 0 interest the loan would have likely been paid off years ago and I could be thinking about home ownership and other things of that nature by now...mrussel1 said:
Yes they are. When I went to school, it was spartan living. Now the amenities are crazy, as schools compete for students with those amenities. There are a ton of factors that have driven the cost of tuition so far ahead of inflation, but this is certainly one of them.bootlegger10 said:College costs and facilities are ridiculous. College should be two to three years max unless it is a field of public safety/health (health, engineering, etc...).Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0 -
Barefoot in the snow!cincybearcat said:
Did you walk uphill both ways too?mrussel1 said:
Yes they are. When I went to school, it was spartan living. Now the amenities are crazy, as schools compete for students with those amenities. There are a ton of factors that have driven the cost of tuition so far ahead of inflation, but this is certainly one of them.bootlegger10 said:College costs and facilities are ridiculous. College should be two to three years max unless it is a field of public safety/health (health, engineering, etc...).This weekend we rock Portland0
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