Something about teacher's pay...

mickeyrat · February 2020

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

"my kids, grades 5 and 8, get zero homework. their teachers are leaving at 3:15 when the bell rings and they ain't doing a fucking thing on their own time. "
Hugh,
1. How do you know those teachers aren't doing anything on their own time?
2. What is wrong with leaving at 3:15 when they can contractually leave at that time?
3. Not too many people give homework anymore, in fact we can't even grade it because you don't know who is actually doing it. I give zero homework except to study for a test.

"once you've done it a year or two, if you don't have it down to a day or two science, you're not doing it right."
I like you Hugh but this is just an ignorant statement. Good teachers are constantly planning and changing things up. Teaching isn't a science, it is an art.

McG and I agree on something!!!!!!

Daaaaaaamn. I
might have to rethink what I wrote.

“On further reflection, I’m a lazy mooch who only works like 20 hours a week.”

Or you an adjunct or full time professor? I guess my question to you, how many classes do you have to teach a week? Do you teach in front of a class or all online?

Full time. A 4/4 teaching load (4 courses per semester). Both online and traditional classes. I spend a fair amount of time in classrooms, but that time doesn’t compare to the time K12 teachers do.

That s really cool. I would like to teach college one day. We shall see.

and have grad students assist in grading etc.....

mcgruff10 · February 2020

mickeyrat said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

"my kids, grades 5 and 8, get zero homework. their teachers are leaving at 3:15 when the bell rings and they ain't doing a fucking thing on their own time. "
Hugh,
1. How do you know those teachers aren't doing anything on their own time?
2. What is wrong with leaving at 3:15 when they can contractually leave at that time?
3. Not too many people give homework anymore, in fact we can't even grade it because you don't know who is actually doing it. I give zero homework except to study for a test.

"once you've done it a year or two, if you don't have it down to a day or two science, you're not doing it right."
I like you Hugh but this is just an ignorant statement. Good teachers are constantly planning and changing things up. Teaching isn't a science, it is an art.

McG and I agree on something!!!!!!

Daaaaaaamn. I
might have to rethink what I wrote.

“On further reflection, I’m a lazy mooch who only works like 20 hours a week.”

Or you an adjunct or full time professor? I guess my question to you, how many classes do you have to teach a week? Do you teach in front of a class or all online?

Full time. A 4/4 teaching load (4 courses per semester). Both online and traditional classes. I spend a fair amount of time in classrooms, but that time doesn’t compare to the time K12 teachers do.

That s really cool. I would like to teach college one day. We shall see.

and have grad students assist in grading etc.....

I like it.

ecdanc · February 2020

mickeyrat said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

"my kids, grades 5 and 8, get zero homework. their teachers are leaving at 3:15 when the bell rings and they ain't doing a fucking thing on their own time. "
Hugh,
1. How do you know those teachers aren't doing anything on their own time?
2. What is wrong with leaving at 3:15 when they can contractually leave at that time?
3. Not too many people give homework anymore, in fact we can't even grade it because you don't know who is actually doing it. I give zero homework except to study for a test.

"once you've done it a year or two, if you don't have it down to a day or two science, you're not doing it right."
I like you Hugh but this is just an ignorant statement. Good teachers are constantly planning and changing things up. Teaching isn't a science, it is an art.

McG and I agree on something!!!!!!

Daaaaaaamn. I
might have to rethink what I wrote.

“On further reflection, I’m a lazy mooch who only works like 20 hours a week.”

Or you an adjunct or full time professor? I guess my question to you, how many classes do you have to teach a week? Do you teach in front of a class or all online?

Full time. A 4/4 teaching load (4 courses per semester). Both online and traditional classes. I spend a fair amount of time in classrooms, but that time doesn’t compare to the time K12 teachers do.

That s really cool. I would like to teach college one day. We shall see.

and have grad students assist in grading etc.....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

ecdanc · February 2020

pjhawks said:

angry_skull said:

Would any people here who use the "teachers work 9 months and get paid 12" argument work 3 more months for free?

The "my taxes pay for your job" argument is funny too. If teachers get paid from taxes...and pay taxes...then they pay themselves too."

Since some people think teachers are babysitters, pay them like babysitters. What do you currently pay a babysitter per hour? $7 (hopefully more)? Per kid...about 30 kids...$210 an hour. Sounds good.

If teachers have it so good, stop hating, and be one. Like Ed says. "If you hate something. Don't. You do it too."

actually they get paid for 9 months work which is what they work. that was the point of the OP of this thread. teachers get paid 70% of what other professionals with similar education get paid...and, wait for it, they work roughly 70% of the days of other professionals by schedule. some people make this WAY more complicated than it really is...but i'm just a hater apparently.

Do you really think teachers don't work during their "breaks?"

ecdanc · February 2020

I'm a college professor, so this isn't an apples-to-apples comparison, but nonetheless:

I'm on a nine-month contract. I get paid for nine months of the year. If I only worked during those nine months, I would have been fired years ago, because there simply would not be time to do all the work. I average over 40 hours of work per week....52 weeks of the year! Yes, I work fewer hours during the summer, but I'd estimate, on average, I put in about 30 hours a week during the 3 months I'm not being paid.

ecdanc · February 2020

mickeyrat said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

"my kids, grades 5 and 8, get zero homework. their teachers are leaving at 3:15 when the bell rings and they ain't doing a fucking thing on their own time. "
Hugh,
1. How do you know those teachers aren't doing anything on their own time?
2. What is wrong with leaving at 3:15 when they can contractually leave at that time?
3. Not too many people give homework anymore, in fact we can't even grade it because you don't know who is actually doing it. I give zero homework except to study for a test.

"once you've done it a year or two, if you don't have it down to a day or two science, you're not doing it right."
I like you Hugh but this is just an ignorant statement. Good teachers are constantly planning and changing things up. Teaching isn't a science, it is an art.

McG and I agree on something!!!!!!

Daaaaaaamn. I
might have to rethink what I wrote.

“On further reflection, I’m a lazy mooch who only works like 20 hours a week.”

Or you an adjunct or full time professor? I guess my question to you, how many classes do you have to teach a week? Do you teach in front of a class or all online?

Full time. A 4/4 teaching load (4 courses per semester). Both online and traditional classes. I spend a fair amount of time in classrooms, but that time doesn’t compare to the time K12 teachers do.

That s really cool. I would like to teach college one day. We shall see.

and have grad students assist in grading etc.....

Honestly, what percentage of college professors do you imagine have graders?

mickeyrat · February 2020

ecdanc said:

mickeyrat said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

"my kids, grades 5 and 8, get zero homework. their teachers are leaving at 3:15 when the bell rings and they ain't doing a fucking thing on their own time. "
Hugh,
1. How do you know those teachers aren't doing anything on their own time?
2. What is wrong with leaving at 3:15 when they can contractually leave at that time?
3. Not too many people give homework anymore, in fact we can't even grade it because you don't know who is actually doing it. I give zero homework except to study for a test.

"once you've done it a year or two, if you don't have it down to a day or two science, you're not doing it right."
I like you Hugh but this is just an ignorant statement. Good teachers are constantly planning and changing things up. Teaching isn't a science, it is an art.

McG and I agree on something!!!!!!

Daaaaaaamn. I
might have to rethink what I wrote.

“On further reflection, I’m a lazy mooch who only works like 20 hours a week.”

Or you an adjunct or full time professor? I guess my question to you, how many classes do you have to teach a week? Do you teach in front of a class or all online?

Full time. A 4/4 teaching load (4 courses per semester). Both online and traditional classes. I spend a fair amount of time in classrooms, but that time doesn’t compare to the time K12 teachers do.

That s really cool. I would like to teach college one day. We shall see.

and have grad students assist in grading etc.....

Honestly, what percentage of college professors do you imagine have graders?

dkdc.....

14 yrs ago I couldnt get hired at fast food. 13 1/3 yrs ago first job in sobriety started at 7.50hr. 8 yrs ago , I began my journey as a truck driver, a field I have always wanted to be in. 40k first year. 50k by yr 5. switched companies 3 yrs ago. look to crack 100k. this year....... at 50ish hrs a week.

I dropped out of HS........

ecdanc · February 2020

mickeyrat said:

ecdanc said:

mickeyrat said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

"my kids, grades 5 and 8, get zero homework. their teachers are leaving at 3:15 when the bell rings and they ain't doing a fucking thing on their own time. "
Hugh,
1. How do you know those teachers aren't doing anything on their own time?
2. What is wrong with leaving at 3:15 when they can contractually leave at that time?
3. Not too many people give homework anymore, in fact we can't even grade it because you don't know who is actually doing it. I give zero homework except to study for a test.

"once you've done it a year or two, if you don't have it down to a day or two science, you're not doing it right."
I like you Hugh but this is just an ignorant statement. Good teachers are constantly planning and changing things up. Teaching isn't a science, it is an art.

McG and I agree on something!!!!!!

Daaaaaaamn. I
might have to rethink what I wrote.

“On further reflection, I’m a lazy mooch who only works like 20 hours a week.”

Or you an adjunct or full time professor? I guess my question to you, how many classes do you have to teach a week? Do you teach in front of a class or all online?

Full time. A 4/4 teaching load (4 courses per semester). Both online and traditional classes. I spend a fair amount of time in classrooms, but that time doesn’t compare to the time K12 teachers do.

That s really cool. I would like to teach college one day. We shall see.

and have grad students assist in grading etc.....

Honestly, what percentage of college professors do you imagine have graders?

dkdc.....

14 yrs ago I couldnt get hired at fast food. 13 1/3 yrs ago first job in sobriety started at 7.50hr. 8 yrs ago , I began my journey as a truck driver, a field I have always wanted to be in. 40k first year. 50k by yr 5. switched companies 3 yrs ago. look to crack 100k. this year....... at 50ish hrs a week.

I dropped out of HS........

Cool story. Super relevant to the thread about teachers.

mcgruff10 · February 2020

ecdanc said:

mickeyrat said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

"my kids, grades 5 and 8, get zero homework. their teachers are leaving at 3:15 when the bell rings and they ain't doing a fucking thing on their own time. "
Hugh,
1. How do you know those teachers aren't doing anything on their own time?
2. What is wrong with leaving at 3:15 when they can contractually leave at that time?
3. Not too many people give homework anymore, in fact we can't even grade it because you don't know who is actually doing it. I give zero homework except to study for a test.

"once you've done it a year or two, if you don't have it down to a day or two science, you're not doing it right."
I like you Hugh but this is just an ignorant statement. Good teachers are constantly planning and changing things up. Teaching isn't a science, it is an art.

McG and I agree on something!!!!!!

Daaaaaaamn. I
might have to rethink what I wrote.

“On further reflection, I’m a lazy mooch who only works like 20 hours a week.”

Or you an adjunct or full time professor? I guess my question to you, how many classes do you have to teach a week? Do you teach in front of a class or all online?

Full time. A 4/4 teaching load (4 courses per semester). Both online and traditional classes. I spend a fair amount of time in classrooms, but that time doesn’t compare to the time K12 teachers do.

That s really cool. I would like to teach college one day. We shall see.

and have grad students assist in grading etc.....

Honestly, what percentage of college professors do you imagine have graders?

98%

ecdanc · February 2020

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mickeyrat said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

"my kids, grades 5 and 8, get zero homework. their teachers are leaving at 3:15 when the bell rings and they ain't doing a fucking thing on their own time. "
Hugh,
1. How do you know those teachers aren't doing anything on their own time?
2. What is wrong with leaving at 3:15 when they can contractually leave at that time?
3. Not too many people give homework anymore, in fact we can't even grade it because you don't know who is actually doing it. I give zero homework except to study for a test.

"once you've done it a year or two, if you don't have it down to a day or two science, you're not doing it right."
I like you Hugh but this is just an ignorant statement. Good teachers are constantly planning and changing things up. Teaching isn't a science, it is an art.

McG and I agree on something!!!!!!

Daaaaaaamn. I
might have to rethink what I wrote.

“On further reflection, I’m a lazy mooch who only works like 20 hours a week.”

Or you an adjunct or full time professor? I guess my question to you, how many classes do you have to teach a week? Do you teach in front of a class or all online?

Full time. A 4/4 teaching load (4 courses per semester). Both online and traditional classes. I spend a fair amount of time in classrooms, but that time doesn’t compare to the time K12 teachers do.

That s really cool. I would like to teach college one day. We shall see.

and have grad students assist in grading etc.....

Honestly, what percentage of college professors do you imagine have graders?

98%

So the exact same as the amount of days you work fewer than 6 hours?

mickeyrat · February 2020

ecdanc said:

mickeyrat said:

ecdanc said:

mickeyrat said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

"my kids, grades 5 and 8, get zero homework. their teachers are leaving at 3:15 when the bell rings and they ain't doing a fucking thing on their own time. "
Hugh,
1. How do you know those teachers aren't doing anything on their own time?
2. What is wrong with leaving at 3:15 when they can contractually leave at that time?
3. Not too many people give homework anymore, in fact we can't even grade it because you don't know who is actually doing it. I give zero homework except to study for a test.

"once you've done it a year or two, if you don't have it down to a day or two science, you're not doing it right."
I like you Hugh but this is just an ignorant statement. Good teachers are constantly planning and changing things up. Teaching isn't a science, it is an art.

McG and I agree on something!!!!!!

Daaaaaaamn. I
might have to rethink what I wrote.

“On further reflection, I’m a lazy mooch who only works like 20 hours a week.”

Or you an adjunct or full time professor? I guess my question to you, how many classes do you have to teach a week? Do you teach in front of a class or all online?

Full time. A 4/4 teaching load (4 courses per semester). Both online and traditional classes. I spend a fair amount of time in classrooms, but that time doesn’t compare to the time K12 teachers do.

That s really cool. I would like to teach college one day. We shall see.

and have grad students assist in grading etc.....

Honestly, what percentage of college professors do you imagine have graders?

dkdc.....

14 yrs ago I couldnt get hired at fast food. 13 1/3 yrs ago first job in sobriety started at 7.50hr. 8 yrs ago , I began my journey as a truck driver, a field I have always wanted to be in. 40k first year. 50k by yr 5. switched companies 3 yrs ago. look to crack 100k. this year....... at 50ish hrs a week.

I dropped out of HS........

Cool story. Super relevant to the thread about teachers.

oh its relevant. Had several great teachers over the years who encouraged me to work toward my potential. Was smart but bored. Then we took a vocational aptitude test in middle school I guess it was. Driving number 1. Trades number 2. You know use your hands and your brain.

wasted some 25 years in drugs and alcohol. Guess now I am living up to my potential...... Thanks to those teachers......

ecdanc · February 2020

mickeyrat said:

ecdanc said:

mickeyrat said:

ecdanc said:

mickeyrat said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

"my kids, grades 5 and 8, get zero homework. their teachers are leaving at 3:15 when the bell rings and they ain't doing a fucking thing on their own time. "
Hugh,
1. How do you know those teachers aren't doing anything on their own time?
2. What is wrong with leaving at 3:15 when they can contractually leave at that time?
3. Not too many people give homework anymore, in fact we can't even grade it because you don't know who is actually doing it. I give zero homework except to study for a test.

"once you've done it a year or two, if you don't have it down to a day or two science, you're not doing it right."
I like you Hugh but this is just an ignorant statement. Good teachers are constantly planning and changing things up. Teaching isn't a science, it is an art.

McG and I agree on something!!!!!!

Daaaaaaamn. I
might have to rethink what I wrote.

“On further reflection, I’m a lazy mooch who only works like 20 hours a week.”

Or you an adjunct or full time professor? I guess my question to you, how many classes do you have to teach a week? Do you teach in front of a class or all online?

Full time. A 4/4 teaching load (4 courses per semester). Both online and traditional classes. I spend a fair amount of time in classrooms, but that time doesn’t compare to the time K12 teachers do.

That s really cool. I would like to teach college one day. We shall see.

and have grad students assist in grading etc.....

Honestly, what percentage of college professors do you imagine have graders?

dkdc.....

14 yrs ago I couldnt get hired at fast food. 13 1/3 yrs ago first job in sobriety started at 7.50hr. 8 yrs ago , I began my journey as a truck driver, a field I have always wanted to be in. 40k first year. 50k by yr 5. switched companies 3 yrs ago. look to crack 100k. this year....... at 50ish hrs a week.

I dropped out of HS........

Cool story. Super relevant to the thread about teachers.

oh its relevant. Had several great teachers over the years who encouraged me to work toward my potential. Was smart but bored. Then we took a vocational aptitude test in middle school I guess it was. Driving number 1. Trades number 2. You know use your hands and your brain.

wasted some 25 years in drugs and alcohol. Guess now I am living up to my potential...... Thanks to those teachers......

mcgruff10 · February 2020

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mickeyrat said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

"my kids, grades 5 and 8, get zero homework. their teachers are leaving at 3:15 when the bell rings and they ain't doing a fucking thing on their own time. "
Hugh,
1. How do you know those teachers aren't doing anything on their own time?
2. What is wrong with leaving at 3:15 when they can contractually leave at that time?
3. Not too many people give homework anymore, in fact we can't even grade it because you don't know who is actually doing it. I give zero homework except to study for a test.

"once you've done it a year or two, if you don't have it down to a day or two science, you're not doing it right."
I like you Hugh but this is just an ignorant statement. Good teachers are constantly planning and changing things up. Teaching isn't a science, it is an art.

McG and I agree on something!!!!!!

Daaaaaaamn. I
might have to rethink what I wrote.

“On further reflection, I’m a lazy mooch who only works like 20 hours a week.”

Or you an adjunct or full time professor? I guess my question to you, how many classes do you have to teach a week? Do you teach in front of a class or all online?

Full time. A 4/4 teaching load (4 courses per semester). Both online and traditional classes. I spend a fair amount of time in classrooms, but that time doesn’t compare to the time K12 teachers do.

That s really cool. I would like to teach college one day. We shall see.

and have grad students assist in grading etc.....

Honestly, what percentage of college professors do you imagine have graders?

98%

So the exact same as the amount of days you work fewer than 6 hours?

i'm 7 to 2:05 ever day. suck it!

PJPOWER · February 2020

ecdanc said:

I'm a college professor, so this isn't an apples-to-apples comparison, but nonetheless:

I'm on a nine-month contract. I get paid for nine months of the year. If I only worked during those nine months, I would have been fired years ago, because there simply would not be time to do all the work. I average over 40 hours of work per week....52 weeks of the year! Yes, I work fewer hours during the summer, but I'd estimate, on average, I put in about 30 hours a week during the 3 months I'm not being paid.

If I was on a 9 month contract, I would set boundaries and only work what I am getting paid to work. If I couldn’t do the work during that time, I would renegotiate my contract or find a new job. If my employer expected me to work more days than my contract stated, then I would renegotiate my contract or find a new job. I feel like teachers or teacher unions may have enabled unfair employment practices...and in my opinion, that’s where the ball is being dropped. Individuals have no leverage because everyone else is enabling unfair practices by essentially choosing to work for free outside of their contracts and making others feel obligated to do the same.

I guess I choose not to be a teacher because I refuse to work for an employer that expects me to work for free three months out of the year.

what dreams · February 2020

BINGO again. Teachers enable their own wage theft.

In all my years of working to contract, not once have my principals chastised me for being unprepared for class, or not posting grades on time, or not teaching bell to bell. It just doesn't happen. In an 8 hour day, I'm able to get done the essentials of the job so that kids learn. Teachers need to stop with all the arts and crafts after hours thinking they make a difference. They don't. We know there are a handful of high yield practices, and they are pretty basic and don't take hours to prep: choice, novelty, note-taking, graphic organizers, summarizing, and a couple more I can't remember right now. I do one of those every day, and it doesn't take four extra hours to come up with. Too many people working themselves to death coming up with bells and whistles that don't have any impact on outcomes.

brianlux · February 2020

angry_skull said:

Would any people here who use the "teachers work 9 months and get paid 12" argument work 3 more months for free?

The "my taxes pay for your job" argument is funny too. If teachers get paid from taxes...and pay taxes...then they pay themselves too."

Since some people think teachers are babysitters, pay them like babysitters. What do you currently pay a babysitter per hour? $7 (hopefully more)? Per kid...about 30 kids...$210 an hour. Sounds good.

If teachers have it so good, stop hating, and be one. Like Ed says. "If you hate something. Don't. You do it too."

Great post and great to see a fresh face on the train! I hope you stick around, angry_skull !

pjhawks said:

angry_skull said:

Would any people here who use the "teachers work 9 months and get paid 12" argument work 3 more months for free?

The "my taxes pay for your job" argument is funny too. If teachers get paid from taxes...and pay taxes...then they pay themselves too."

Since some people think teachers are babysitters, pay them like babysitters. What do you currently pay a babysitter per hour? $7 (hopefully more)? Per kid...about 30 kids...$210 an hour. Sounds good.

If teachers have it so good, stop hating, and be one. Like Ed says. "If you hate something. Don't. You do it too."

actually they get paid for 9 months work which is what they work. that was the point of the OP of this thread. teachers get paid 70% of what other professionals with similar education get paid...and, wait for it, they work roughly 70% of the days of other professionals by schedule. some people make this WAY more complicated than it really is...but i'm just a hater apparently.

Actually, pjhawks, if you look at the original post it is about an article that talks about how teacher's pay has fallen. Just for the record, my friend, just for the record.

what dreams · February 2020

One more thing teachers do way too much of . . . Grading. Every district Ive taught in requires one formal grade per week, one informal. That's NINE grades in the grade book per quarter. I see teachers all the time with 20-30. They grade everything, because they think if they don't grade it, kids won't do it. Again, just not true. My students do everything I put in front of them, and they appreciate all the ungraded practice so that when I announce "this one is graded" they're ready. Or teachers who won't let kids grade their own work because they cheat. Doesn't happen if you keep your eye out.

There are so many ways teachers could do a more efficient job but don't and then wonder why they're on the hamster wheel.

Very early in my career, a mentor told me about "the point of diminishing returns." There really is one. At some point, the extra effort doesn't yield extra results.

I'm not saying it's easy to figure out and I'm not blaming teachers for working hard. But I just think there needs to be some myth busting about what it takes, and teachers need to get better at setting boundaries. It is possible to work contract hours and still be an effective teacher.

Halifax2TheMax · February 2020

mcgruff10 said:

"my kids, grades 5 and 8, get zero homework. their teachers are leaving at 3:15 when the bell rings and they ain't doing a fucking thing on their own time. "
Hugh,
1. How do you know those teachers aren't doing anything on their own time?
2. What is wrong with leaving at 3:15 when they can contractually leave at that time?
3. Not too many people give homework anymore, in fact we can't even grade it because you don't know who is actually doing it. I give zero homework except to study for a test.

"once you've done it a year or two, if you don't have it down to a day or two science, you're not doing it right."
I like you Hugh but this is just an ignorant statement. Good teachers are constantly planning and changing things up. Teaching isn't a science, it is an art.

Think of teachers as artists and their students as canvases, a pile of different materials or blocks of clay. Some of that will become masterpieces, a small percentage, auctioned at Christies, some will be shown and exhibited in trendy art galleries, some will end up in the Crate & Barrel catalog and others will remain half finished or in the dumpster. Teachers, like artists, need time off to recharge, regain their energy and creativity, to mold and create, hopefully masterpieces but what most artists end up creating, average works that look just fine to somebody sitting in the corner, hanging on their wall, adding value to their everyday. A classroom of 25 to 35, 3rd to 12th graders is hardly a cookie cutter approach for a teacher as is a room full of disparate materials and mediums are for an artist. I'd love to see anyone in here who is not a teacher spend a year in a teacher's shoes and then see whether they complain about the pay and the summer's off, etc., etc.

brianlux · February 2020

what dreams said:

One more thing teachers do way too much of . . . Grading. Every district Ive taught in requires one formal grade per week, one informal. That's NINE grades in the grade book per quarter. I see teachers all the time with 20-30. They grade everything, because they think if they don't grade it, kids won't do it. Again, just not true. My students do everything I put in front of them, and they appreciate all the ungraded practice so that when I announce "this one is graded" they're ready. Or teachers who won't let kids grade their own work because they cheat. Doesn't happen if you keep your eye out.

There are so many ways teachers could do a more efficient job but don't and then wonder why they're on the hamster wheel.

Very early in my career, a mentor told me about "the point of diminishing returns." There really is one. At some point, the extra effort doesn't yield extra results.

I'm not saying it's easy to figure out and I'm not blaming teachers for working hard. But I just think there needs to be some myth busting about what it takes, and teachers need to get better at setting boundaries. It is possible to work contract hours and still be an effective teacher.

I always hated grading because it did nothing to really assess or critique a students work or help them improve it. Grades reinforce negative feeling in students who don't play the game and too often reward brown nosers. Also, in some cases anyway, the way A's hard handed out like candy is bullshit. That's too often about the teacher wanting the students to like him or her.

All this reminds me of my favorite grading story. In my third year in college in around 1970 or '71 I took a college course that I only attended a few times because I had reached a point where I was hating school, majoring in getting stoned and drunk, and watching my life go to hell. At the end of the semester, the prof told us to write on a piece of paper what we thought our grade should be and why we believe we should receive that grade. I had only attended class two or three time that semester in that course (creative writing) and done almost none of the work other than a lot of writing I did on my own and not for class. I wrote on my paper: "I need and A in this class because anything less will lower my grade point average and I am already on probation and will end up on being expelled from school and will be drafted and sent to Vietnam and I do not believe in that war and I do not want to die." I received and A and lived to tell about it.

Years later, I redeemed myself by going back to school, finished my degree in two years plus a year of education classes and served my country by teaching for five years. And in those last three years of college I only received one B+ grade, all the rest were A's. Candy. It's all bullshit.

mcgruff10 · February 2020

Halifax2TheMax said:

mcgruff10 said:

"my kids, grades 5 and 8, get zero homework. their teachers are leaving at 3:15 when the bell rings and they ain't doing a fucking thing on their own time. "
Hugh,
1. How do you know those teachers aren't doing anything on their own time?
2. What is wrong with leaving at 3:15 when they can contractually leave at that time?
3. Not too many people give homework anymore, in fact we can't even grade it because you don't know who is actually doing it. I give zero homework except to study for a test.

"once you've done it a year or two, if you don't have it down to a day or two science, you're not doing it right."
I like you Hugh but this is just an ignorant statement. Good teachers are constantly planning and changing things up. Teaching isn't a science, it is an art.

Think of teachers as artists and their students as canvases, a pile of different materials or blocks of clay. Some of that will become masterpieces, a small percentage, auctioned at Christies, some will be shown and exhibited in trendy art galleries, some will end up in the Crate & Barrel catalog and others will remain half finished or in the dumpster. Teachers, like artists, need time off to recharge, regain their energy and creativity, to mold and create, hopefully masterpieces but what most artists end up creating, average works that look just fine to somebody sitting in the corner, hanging on their wall, adding value to their everyday. A classroom of 25 to 35, 3rd to 12th graders is hardly a cookie cutter approach for a teacher as is a room full of disparate materials and mediums are for an artist. I'd love to see anyone in here who is not a teacher spend a year in a teacher's shoes and then see whether they complain about the pay and the summer's off, etc., etc.

I think we are now BFF s.

Something about teacher's pay...

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