Just listened to Bernie on Rogan on my drive. It was nice to hear a long-form interview where he actually has the time to explain things like how he intends to eliminate all student loan debt and how he would tackle healthcare. The guy does seem like a man of the people, and that’s why I happily voted for him over Clinton in the 2016 primary, but unfortunately I think that 2016 was his best chance. But we’ll see. 

Ledbetterman10 said:

Just listened to Bernie on Rogan on my drive. It was nice to hear a long-form interview where he actually has the time to explain things like how he intends to eliminate all student loan debt and how he would tackle healthcare. The guy does seem like a man of the people, and that’s why I happily voted for him over Clinton in the 2016 primary, but unfortunately I think that 2016 was his best chance. But we’ll see. 

The whole "But how will they pay for it!" rhetoric and talking points - popping up in this thread from time to time - is pretty crazy, especially with Elisabeth Warren only having one catch phrase and that is "I have a plan for that".

Believe it is the right thing to do or not. Believe it can be voted through or not. But obviously they have some idea on how it would work in practice. 

Even if they don't have the time to break it down in a CNN debate.

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Just listened to Bernie on Rogan on my drive. It was nice to hear a long-form interview where he actually has the time to explain things like how he intends to eliminate all student loan debt and how he would tackle healthcare. The guy does seem like a man of the people, and that’s why I happily voted for him over Clinton in the 2016 primary, but unfortunately I think that 2016 was his best chance. But we’ll see. 

The whole "But how will they pay for it!" rhetoric and talking points - popping up in this thread from time to time - is pretty crazy, especially with Elisabeth Warren only having one catch phrase and that is "I have a plan for that".

Believe it is the right thing to do or not. Believe it can be voted through or not. But obviously they have some idea on how it would work in practice. 

Even if they don't have the time to break it down in a CNN debate.

Elizabeth Warren uses the same pool of money to pay for every one of her proposals, so far as I can tell.  And secondly, that doesn't mean many of us want those tax dollars to be used for those purposes, specifically the wiping of student debt.  

Read my bolded sentence for your "And secondly".

I would not want tax money to go to that either. But not every candidate is perfect. Or party. No point in doing what the 2nd amendment-nuts do. "everything or nothing will work" as I think you put it.

And your "the same pool" - I haven't seen any article about her talking out of her ass, so I put my faith in her pool or pools covering what she says good enough to get to keep saying what she says.

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

cincybearcat said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

If you haven’t seen Anderson Cooper’s interview with Sleepy Joe tonight, I highly recommend it and if he’s the party’s nominee and you pull the lever for Team Trump Treason, you need your head examined.

How did he do 

He was extremely human.

Was he creepy or seem like he wanted to rest his eyes? Maybe this was his wake up call

Thoughtful, intelligent, articulate, experienced and human.

I think he came off good in Cuomos interview also. 

And when he is being attacked in the debates like last time (saw a montage of just the attacks) you feel for him. It's like watching someone who is innocent being harassed in an interrogation room by the "bad cop". If you have ever watched a scandinavian noir.

Even though Joe got punched often in the last debate, polls say he did ok

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/06/poll-elizabeth-warren-wins-second-debate-1448607

Yep. Affirming my point. No one wants to see an old man being harassed like that. No one wants to see Obamas BFF being put down and looking sad. It made me, and I bet a lot of people just uncomfortable.

I don't think death of a thousand knifings or groupkicking him ASAP Rocky-style is gonna work with Biden. 

They need instead to steal his thunder. And break through and make people see their vision as better.

Bernie or Liz lose to trump. The US is not Europe.  Voters are not ready to accept govt controlled healthcare, unfortunately.  Whether or not it "polls well."

My post did not have anything to do with chances against trump though. But about strategies if one would want to try and pass Biden in the polls.

And even if I think change can come more at once than this moderate idea of a wave building before it breaks, the thing about the US not being Europe, is what will make these type of memes being the truth for many, many New Years ahead (unfortunately):




To use a term from Turok 2: Seeds of Evil - maybe one day a "leap of faith" will be made.

It's not only "voters aren't ready" for govt controlled healthcare (they arent), it's that the US economy is devised to handle the current system. 

Convincing employers to pay employees more salary instead of insurance benefits will be one of many headaches in addition to gutting the system and implementing a new one.

And in the US it needs to be implemented quickly, because about 19 months after a President Bernie or Liz were to be inaugurated, its midterm time. As a refresher, recall Obama and Congress, 2009- 2010.

That's why public option makes sense. People who want it can choose it. And all the govt has to do is require employers to add one choice to their benefits currently offered. Simpler first step. Voters will be able to see if it works for them.  If it does, then propose MFA.

If the US elections were more representative of the popular vote, perhaps we could have a leap of faith.

Unfortunately for that, rural and middle Americans get a greater say in presidential elections than their population share. 

If someone interested missed another longform talk with Bernie. A bit louder voice than in the Joe Rogan podcast. but anyways.

On healthcare
"Can you guarantee that no middleclass families taxes will go up by more than they currently are paying in premiums?"
Bernie: Yes, we can.

https://youtu.be/VKbXU_4yVE4

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Just listened to Bernie on Rogan on my drive. It was nice to hear a long-form interview where he actually has the time to explain things like how he intends to eliminate all student loan debt and how he would tackle healthcare. The guy does seem like a man of the people, and that’s why I happily voted for him over Clinton in the 2016 primary, but unfortunately I think that 2016 was his best chance. But we’ll see. 

The whole "But how will they pay for it!" rhetoric and talking points - popping up in this thread from time to time - is pretty crazy, especially with Elisabeth Warren only having one catch phrase and that is "I have a plan for that".

Believe it is the right thing to do or not. Believe it can be voted through or not. But obviously they have some idea on how it would work in practice. 

Even if they don't have the time to break it down in a CNN debate.

I actually like @Gern Blansten's idea for the candidates to go on YouTube and make videos giving detailed explanations of their stances because the debates are such a joke. He suggested they go on after the debates, but really it could be anytime. And it could be the candidate just talking to the camera, or being asked questions by some hand-picked interviewer.

These debates (if you can call them that) have been so god-awful. Nobody gets enough time, everything gets spun and dissected on social media (with more emphasis on who "owned" who than who had the best policy proposals), there's "gotcha" questions, attacks on each other, etc. At least with a long-form interview like Bernie's and Rogan's, what Bernie said is what he said. There's nothing to read into. No body language to judge. Just questions and answers (with explanations). I'd like more of that. 

 

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Just listened to Bernie on Rogan on my drive. It was nice to hear a long-form interview where he actually has the time to explain things like how he intends to eliminate all student loan debt and how he would tackle healthcare. The guy does seem like a man of the people, and that’s why I happily voted for him over Clinton in the 2016 primary, but unfortunately I think that 2016 was his best chance. But we’ll see. 

The whole "But how will they pay for it!" rhetoric and talking points - popping up in this thread from time to time - is pretty crazy, especially with Elisabeth Warren only having one catch phrase and that is "I have a plan for that".

Believe it is the right thing to do or not. Believe it can be voted through or not. But obviously they have some idea on how it would work in practice. 

Even if they don't have the time to break it down in a CNN debate.

I actually like @Gern Blansten's idea for the candidates to go on YouTube and make videos giving detailed explanations of their stances because the debates are such a joke. He suggested they go on after the debates, but really it could be anytime. And it could be the candidate just talking to the camera, or being asked questions by some hand-picked interviewer.

These debates (if you can call them that) have been so god-awful. Nobody gets enough time, everything gets spun and dissected on social media (with more emphasis on who "owned" who than who had the best policy proposals), there's "gotcha" questions, attacks on each other, etc. At least with a long-form interview like Bernie's and Rogan's, what Bernie said is what he said. There's nothing to read into. No body language to judge. Just questions and answers (with explanations). I'd like more of that. 

 

Yeah, I read someone say something like:

CNN in the debate: So candidate A has said this about you candidate C. Now fight!

CNN after the debate: They are fighting too much.

Gern Blansten said:

I was impressed with Biden's speech today.  He basically just trashed tRump but if he has that attitude as the nominee he's going to win.

It was good. A bit lacking in energy and stuttery and telepromptery. But agree it was good.

Betos honest "WHAT THE FUCK!?" was better though. 

Good guy Beto

On the topic of American Cable News being bullshit that do not reach the standards of journalism and Beto being a good guy -

Beto schooling Chris Cuomo (4 minutes in):

https://youtu.be/Zxcn-B5JtL4