A GAME OF THRONES - Discussion Thread

tbergs said:

mace1229 said:

I was disappointed. Seeing Arya run off to be a captain of a boat felt random. Sending Jon off to rejoin the watch I didn't like. Why is there even a watch, he's the only one left since Sam was apparently allowed to skip out on his vows. But then he just joined the Wildlings anyway? I felt like someone should have made the comment there was no more watch so the joke was on Greyworm or something.

But it was the unecessary side plots that bugged me. The biggest issue I had was who Jon really was didn't mean anything at all. For being such an important plot point and discovery what was the whole point? To make Dany sweat for 2 episodes? That whole idea became totally pointless as it didn't play out at all.
The Greyjoy fleet? What was the point of saving the sister , she did nothign afterwards except say 1 line that she was loyal to the queen and Jon should die. Did she not notice the city was in complete shambles? It was this huge side story that never came to a point and never had any purpose. She wasn't in any of the battles this season and Euron hardly put up a fight.
Greyworm was annoying. I've put up with his lame facial expressions for 5 seasons just to see him kill innocent people in the end and everyone seems okay with it? Same with the Dothraki, they went around raping everyone. Drogo died because Dany wasn't okay with them raping the villages, but now that she's the queen its all good?

I was actually more ok with this ending and thought it played out better than expected based on the previous episodes. I think Arya going off to explore made more sense than her continuing on as a killer or turning in to a lady. She is an adventurer and a loner so it made sense to me. I think Tyrion knew the watch was kind of a joke, but it appeased Greyworm. Ultimately, it meant he would join the people of the north and Tormund. He seemed to be the new Mance Rayder, the king beyond the wall.

My biggest issue is with Greyworm and the Dothraki being given clemency for their war crimes. Sure, they were acting on behalf of their now dead queen, but it was odd to see Greyworm given any respect or dignity and Jon as a prisoner. Apparently only some characters need to be held accountable for their "crimes".

It took me a minute to figure out what was happening after the fade to black in the throne room and Tyrion being led to the dragon pit, but then I realized, oh, they're skipping those details again. I guess that would be my other complaint, this season consistently left the most interesting plot points to occur off screen (Jon revealing who he is to his family, Arya's magical stealth attack of the Night King, Jon being confronted or revealing he murdered Dany). I would have thought more people would be in support of what Jon did than opposed, but it was also unclear if people were supposed to know he was really Aegon Targaeryn since they kept referring to him as Jon. A few weeks ago it seemed like everyone was going to know soon and then Varys was sending out notes. Did those not get sent and did no one else talk? 

Merkin Baller said:

mace1229 said:

tbergs said:

mace1229 said:

I was disappointed. Seeing Arya run off to be a captain of a boat felt random. Sending Jon off to rejoin the watch I didn't like. Why is there even a watch, he's the only one left since Sam was apparently allowed to skip out on his vows. But then he just joined the Wildlings anyway? I felt like someone should have made the comment there was no more watch so the joke was on Greyworm or something.

But it was the unecessary side plots that bugged me. The biggest issue I had was who Jon really was didn't mean anything at all. For being such an important plot point and discovery what was the whole point? To make Dany sweat for 2 episodes? That whole idea became totally pointless as it didn't play out at all.
The Greyjoy fleet? What was the point of saving the sister , she did nothign afterwards except say 1 line that she was loyal to the queen and Jon should die. Did she not notice the city was in complete shambles? It was this huge side story that never came to a point and never had any purpose. She wasn't in any of the battles this season and Euron hardly put up a fight.
Greyworm was annoying. I've put up with his lame facial expressions for 5 seasons just to see him kill innocent people in the end and everyone seems okay with it? Same with the Dothraki, they went around raping everyone. Drogo died because Dany wasn't okay with them raping the villages, but now that she's the queen its all good?

I was actually more ok with this ending and thought it played out better than expected based on the previous episodes. I think Arya going off to explore made more sense than her continuing on as a killer or turning in to a lady. She is an adventurer and a loner so it made sense to me. I think Tyrion knew the watch was kind of a joke, but it appeased Greyworm. Ultimately, it meant he would join the people of the north and Tormund. He seemed to be the new Mance Rayder, the king beyond the wall.

My biggest issue is with Greyworm and the Dothraki being given clemency for their war crimes. Sure, they were acting on behalf of their now dead queen, but it was odd to see Greyworm given any respect or dignity and Jon as a prisoner. Apparently only some characters need to be held accountable for their "crimes".

It took me a minute to figure out what was happening after the fade to black in the throne room and Tyrion being led to the dragon pit, but then I realized, oh, they're skipping those details again. I guess that would be my other complaint, this season consistently left the most interesting plot points to occur off screen (Jon revealing who he is to his family, Arya's magical stealth attack of the Night King, Jon being confronted or revealing he murdered Dany). I would have thought more people would be in support of what Jon did than opposed, but it was also unclear if people were supposed to know he was really Aegon Targaeryn since they kept referring to him as Jon. A few weeks ago it seemed like everyone was going to know soon and then Varys was sending out notes. Did those not get sent and did no one else talk? 

I guess I agree with Arya, it just seemed out of left field when she announced it. 
I think the issue I have with Jon's story is what you said at the end, they leave the most interesting parts in the dark for you to assume. A 2-minute scene where Tyrion explains that to Jon or Sansa would have filled a lot of that. Did he take the black and forsake his vows knowin gno one would look for him, is there really no Black anymore? Is he part of the black but is free to roam north of the wall now? Will he keep his vows then? How did Sam get out of the Black?
Still the single biggest issue I have is who Jon really was played into the story. For such a big build up and reveal, then it means absolutely nothing in the end. He may as well have been the son of a whore, would not have changed a single thing (except maybe Drogon would have killed him?). But even then, that was after the last battle and not made any difference to the story as a whole.

I think that also applies to Arya & Bran’s characters (the buildup of their stories, that is). There were tremendously underutilized these last two years IMO... at least as compared to how big a part of the show their stories were over the 1st 6 seasons. 

Merkin Baller said:

MayDay10 said:

Merkin Baller said:

mace1229 said:

tbergs said:

mace1229 said:

I was disappointed. Seeing Arya run off to be a captain of a boat felt random. Sending Jon off to rejoin the watch I didn't like. Why is there even a watch, he's the only one left since Sam was apparently allowed to skip out on his vows. But then he just joined the Wildlings anyway? I felt like someone should have made the comment there was no more watch so the joke was on Greyworm or something.

But it was the unecessary side plots that bugged me. The biggest issue I had was who Jon really was didn't mean anything at all. For being such an important plot point and discovery what was the whole point? To make Dany sweat for 2 episodes? That whole idea became totally pointless as it didn't play out at all.
The Greyjoy fleet? What was the point of saving the sister , she did nothign afterwards except say 1 line that she was loyal to the queen and Jon should die. Did she not notice the city was in complete shambles? It was this huge side story that never came to a point and never had any purpose. She wasn't in any of the battles this season and Euron hardly put up a fight.
Greyworm was annoying. I've put up with his lame facial expressions for 5 seasons just to see him kill innocent people in the end and everyone seems okay with it? Same with the Dothraki, they went around raping everyone. Drogo died because Dany wasn't okay with them raping the villages, but now that she's the queen its all good?

I was actually more ok with this ending and thought it played out better than expected based on the previous episodes. I think Arya going off to explore made more sense than her continuing on as a killer or turning in to a lady. She is an adventurer and a loner so it made sense to me. I think Tyrion knew the watch was kind of a joke, but it appeased Greyworm. Ultimately, it meant he would join the people of the north and Tormund. He seemed to be the new Mance Rayder, the king beyond the wall.

My biggest issue is with Greyworm and the Dothraki being given clemency for their war crimes. Sure, they were acting on behalf of their now dead queen, but it was odd to see Greyworm given any respect or dignity and Jon as a prisoner. Apparently only some characters need to be held accountable for their "crimes".

It took me a minute to figure out what was happening after the fade to black in the throne room and Tyrion being led to the dragon pit, but then I realized, oh, they're skipping those details again. I guess that would be my other complaint, this season consistently left the most interesting plot points to occur off screen (Jon revealing who he is to his family, Arya's magical stealth attack of the Night King, Jon being confronted or revealing he murdered Dany). I would have thought more people would be in support of what Jon did than opposed, but it was also unclear if people were supposed to know he was really Aegon Targaeryn since they kept referring to him as Jon. A few weeks ago it seemed like everyone was going to know soon and then Varys was sending out notes. Did those not get sent and did no one else talk? 

I guess I agree with Arya, it just seemed out of left field when she announced it. 
I think the issue I have with Jon's story is what you said at the end, they leave the most interesting parts in the dark for you to assume. A 2-minute scene where Tyrion explains that to Jon or Sansa would have filled a lot of that. Did he take the black and forsake his vows knowin gno one would look for him, is there really no Black anymore? Is he part of the black but is free to roam north of the wall now? Will he keep his vows then? How did Sam get out of the Black?
Still the single biggest issue I have is who Jon really was played into the story. For such a big build up and reveal, then it means absolutely nothing in the end. He may as well have been the son of a whore, would not have changed a single thing (except maybe Drogon would have killed him?). But even then, that was after the last battle and not made any difference to the story as a whole.

I think that also applies to Arya & Bran’s characters (the buildup of their stories, that is). There were tremendously underutilized these last two years IMO... at least as compared to how big a part of the show their stories were over the 1st 6 seasons. 

A lot of people have issue with Bran being king, I think as a byproduct of him being a very poorly developed and run character since they exceeded the books (the point where he was still learning under the Weirwood).  That isn't an easy character to portray on screen since the Three-Eyed-Raven University, especially with no source material. 
From Martin's mouth, they likely knew he would eventually be named king/regent, but there was little way to develop the character and how it is being all-seeing, how it is useful, or what is going on in his head...  Especially without P.O.V. chapters. 

Bran, since being chased out of the root system of that Weirwood acts like any pubescent kid who plays Fortnight 20 hours a day and loathes being around adults.  Nobody liked him, and this decision feels out of left field, where in the printed version (if we get it), it will probably make much more sense.... as will Dany's turn into madness.

Im not sure how much more you could build up Arya's character TBH.  

I think Sansa is another one where there is a disconnect between "I like Songs" and being a stern ruler.

I have no problem w/ the buildup of Arya’s character, it’s just how she was written into the last two seasons that I don’t like. 

I expected her to have a much much bigger role last night based on how episode 5 ended, but whatever. I’m fine with her killing the Night King, but the White Walker storyline seemed to be put to bed too quickly and yes... easily. 

I get what you’re saying, and appreciate the insight from someone who read the books, but I think the end of this show feels clunky and may have ended better if they did two full seasons for 7/8 as opposed to cramming it all into 7 & 6 episodes. 

Indifference71 said:

mfc2006 said:

I thought it was ok, but lots of loose ends. To have that much time to write and film this season and to have so many questions seems a bit weak. I’ll definitely miss the show even if it started going south in the last couple of seasons. 

Yeah.  Don't get why Benioff and Weiss were so insistent on only doing 6 episodes for this final season.  So many parts felt rushed.  Sounds like HBO was willing to let them do as many episodes as they wanted but for some reason they only wanted 6.  

Merkin Baller said:

Merkin Baller said:

MayDay10 said:

Merkin Baller said:

mace1229 said:

tbergs said:

mace1229 said:

I was disappointed. Seeing Arya run off to be a captain of a boat felt random. Sending Jon off to rejoin the watch I didn't like. Why is there even a watch, he's the only one left since Sam was apparently allowed to skip out on his vows. But then he just joined the Wildlings anyway? I felt like someone should have made the comment there was no more watch so the joke was on Greyworm or something.

But it was the unecessary side plots that bugged me. The biggest issue I had was who Jon really was didn't mean anything at all. For being such an important plot point and discovery what was the whole point? To make Dany sweat for 2 episodes? That whole idea became totally pointless as it didn't play out at all.
The Greyjoy fleet? What was the point of saving the sister , she did nothign afterwards except say 1 line that she was loyal to the queen and Jon should die. Did she not notice the city was in complete shambles? It was this huge side story that never came to a point and never had any purpose. She wasn't in any of the battles this season and Euron hardly put up a fight.
Greyworm was annoying. I've put up with his lame facial expressions for 5 seasons just to see him kill innocent people in the end and everyone seems okay with it? Same with the Dothraki, they went around raping everyone. Drogo died because Dany wasn't okay with them raping the villages, but now that she's the queen its all good?

I was actually more ok with this ending and thought it played out better than expected based on the previous episodes. I think Arya going off to explore made more sense than her continuing on as a killer or turning in to a lady. She is an adventurer and a loner so it made sense to me. I think Tyrion knew the watch was kind of a joke, but it appeased Greyworm. Ultimately, it meant he would join the people of the north and Tormund. He seemed to be the new Mance Rayder, the king beyond the wall.

My biggest issue is with Greyworm and the Dothraki being given clemency for their war crimes. Sure, they were acting on behalf of their now dead queen, but it was odd to see Greyworm given any respect or dignity and Jon as a prisoner. Apparently only some characters need to be held accountable for their "crimes".

It took me a minute to figure out what was happening after the fade to black in the throne room and Tyrion being led to the dragon pit, but then I realized, oh, they're skipping those details again. I guess that would be my other complaint, this season consistently left the most interesting plot points to occur off screen (Jon revealing who he is to his family, Arya's magical stealth attack of the Night King, Jon being confronted or revealing he murdered Dany). I would have thought more people would be in support of what Jon did than opposed, but it was also unclear if people were supposed to know he was really Aegon Targaeryn since they kept referring to him as Jon. A few weeks ago it seemed like everyone was going to know soon and then Varys was sending out notes. Did those not get sent and did no one else talk? 

I guess I agree with Arya, it just seemed out of left field when she announced it. 
I think the issue I have with Jon's story is what you said at the end, they leave the most interesting parts in the dark for you to assume. A 2-minute scene where Tyrion explains that to Jon or Sansa would have filled a lot of that. Did he take the black and forsake his vows knowin gno one would look for him, is there really no Black anymore? Is he part of the black but is free to roam north of the wall now? Will he keep his vows then? How did Sam get out of the Black?
Still the single biggest issue I have is who Jon really was played into the story. For such a big build up and reveal, then it means absolutely nothing in the end. He may as well have been the son of a whore, would not have changed a single thing (except maybe Drogon would have killed him?). But even then, that was after the last battle and not made any difference to the story as a whole.

I think that also applies to Arya & Bran’s characters (the buildup of their stories, that is). There were tremendously underutilized these last two years IMO... at least as compared to how big a part of the show their stories were over the 1st 6 seasons. 

A lot of people have issue with Bran being king, I think as a byproduct of him being a very poorly developed and run character since they exceeded the books (the point where he was still learning under the Weirwood).  That isn't an easy character to portray on screen since the Three-Eyed-Raven University, especially with no source material. 
From Martin's mouth, they likely knew he would eventually be named king/regent, but there was little way to develop the character and how it is being all-seeing, how it is useful, or what is going on in his head...  Especially without P.O.V. chapters. 

Bran, since being chased out of the root system of that Weirwood acts like any pubescent kid who plays Fortnight 20 hours a day and loathes being around adults.  Nobody liked him, and this decision feels out of left field, where in the printed version (if we get it), it will probably make much more sense.... as will Dany's turn into madness.

Im not sure how much more you could build up Arya's character TBH.  

I think Sansa is another one where there is a disconnect between "I like Songs" and being a stern ruler.

I have no problem w/ the buildup of Arya’s character, it’s just how she was written into the last two seasons that I don’t like. 

I expected her to have a much much bigger role last night based on how episode 5 ended, but whatever. I’m fine with her killing the Night King, but the White Walker storyline seemed to be put to bed too quickly and yes... easily. 

I get what you’re saying, and appreciate the insight from someone who read the books, but I think the end of this show feels clunky and may have ended better if they did two full seasons for 7/8 as opposed to cramming it all into 7 & 6 episodes. 

Should have added: they could have used some more character development over these last two seasons, as opposed to rushing it, which they did. 

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

Theres a new star wars trilogy? So 12 films now?
Or do you mean episode 9?

No they mentioned doing a new trilogy.
https://dorksideoftheforce.com/2019/02/11/star-wars-trilogy-benioff-weiss/

Jason P said:

I would think that restoring the Nights Watch to full power would need to be a top priority only behind rebuilding Kings Landing.  There is no reason to think the white walker threat is over.  They had assumed there was no white walker threat when the series started.  Now they have a giant hole in the wall and no way to seal it with magic unless Jon discovers it beyond the wall.  

Doomed to repeat, they are. 

MayDay10 said:

tbergs said:

Agreed on Arya. Her story line built for seasons and then all of a sudden disappeared last season and didn't really go anywhere. I know we were supposed to believe that one exchange between her and the Hound finally made her see the light, but the character development change from assassin to retired killer didn't happen.

Another petty side note, last week, we saw Arya ride off on that white horse, but then the first shot of her this week is walking through the burned out ashes of the city again. That immediately annoyed me. So was the whole white horse amidst the gray of ash and ruin supposed to be another sign that Arya should hang-up needle and sail the seas?

Anyway, I think what we got was all the writers were willing to make time for. Maybe they were finding it hard to write the complex story or the actors were itching to get out of the show (I haven't heard that), but either way, they could have probably done a lot better job and given this show 2 full final seasons with just a few extended 80+ minute shows instead of these past 2 seasons on urgency over 3 years.

A few of my friends a few years ago had talked about how this show could possible overtake The Wire for them as best show, but these last 2 seasons really made it clear that wasn't going to happen. GoT wins hands down when it comes to entertainment and visuals, but in the end, it was the story that held it back, which is ironic considering Tyrion's message about why Bran should be King.

The whole story, Arya wanted to be a fighter and get revenge (and to protect her family).  

She "graduated" from the House of Black and White, used her newfound superpowers to neatly murder the entire (and quite large) Frey house, including feeding Walder Frey his own sons before killing him.  That displayed the 'face trick' and that was enough of that for me.  

She was the one who executed Little Finger

They also put her skills on display as she sparred with and bested one of the most skilled Knights in the story (Brienne).

She also delivered the most important stroke in the history of mankind in killing the Night King.

That isn't really disappearing... in fact, IMO, Arya killing Dany would have been too much for 1 character and everyone would have been like WTF is Jon for?

tbergs said:

Jason P said:

I would think that restoring the Nights Watch to full power would need to be a top priority only behind rebuilding Kings Landing.  There is no reason to think the white walker threat is over.  They had assumed there was no white walker threat when the series started.  Now they have a giant hole in the wall and no way to seal it with magic unless Jon discovers it beyond the wall.  

Doomed to repeat, they are. 

Definitely. I mean, look at the council for the King. It's like the band of misfits united. Seeing Bronn all of a sudden back, a lord and on the council was another idiotic plot point as well. Not only have they let the murdering Unsullied and Dothraki sail off in to the sunset and settle in new homes, but they have rewarded another person who has never really earned it and done whatever is necessary for the highest bidder, as recently as a few episodes ago.

Ack, the more I discuss this show, the more I get frustrated with how they ended it. I guess it is better to mindlessly watch and just take whatever they throw at you no matter how absurd.