Should I ask Agnes out on a date?

HughFreakingDillon said:

njnancy said:

OffSheGoes35 said:

I recognized her too, Nancy. I'm so thankful that you found all the right words. I was struggling. Damaged people don't know how to go along with the Boy Meets Girl formula anymore. 

Thanks. At least I can explain what a person that's met too many narcissists acts like and maybe someone can have a good future. It's up to him if he wants to bother to find out who she really is. I'll be working on finding some nice rocking chairs in the meantime.

PJ_Soul said:

I also recognize her, but I'm thinking about it from S_C's perspective only, and frankly, I think that anyone should walk away when red flags like that go up, whatever the causes of the behaviour may be. Maybe it's my cynicism talking, but at this point in my life I think it's better to be careful and preemptively avoid potential mega-drama in relationships. Aka, at the beginning of relationships, use the head, not the heart. I say this as someone with a very strong and long history of ignoring red flags because I thought our strong feelings for one another could overcome them, and that such problems could be worked out with time and love and tolerance, etc etc ... WRONG. They all usually just snowball.

This is exactly why I don't even bother anymore. I figure since they are in their 30's that he should give her a chance. It's not her fault, if she indeed was manipulated at some point. I'd like to think that there are guys that won't blame her for what was done to her. It's just like getting used to a bitch or an introvert or an intellectual. Damaged people aren't bad people. We're actually very nice people in most cases, our vulnerability and non-judgemental nature is what was used against us. The asshole that messed us up is on to his next victim. She should have a chance at being understood. 

However, at this point in my life I think that people would think exactly what you wrote and why bother being misunderstood or hurt or , most likely, fooled again. It is sad that the 'victim' is the one who winds up alone. And I'm not old enough to be okay with spending my life alone, but I have accepted the fact that I will most likely do just that. 

I wouldn't consider it blaming, but generally people don't go all in on an investment if things are looking difficult from the outset. ideally the beginning of a relationship isn't supposed to be fraught with drama and misunderstandings. that's supposed to come later when the spark is gone and you aren't as engaged as you were at the outset. 

do I want to start dating someone who is going to take me on a roller coaster ride of emotions and confusion? or someone I can sit and chat with over coffee and post-sex for hours on end?

it's not "blaming" the damaged person. it's simply not wanting to be their caretaker or the focus of their damage. 

Ouch!

You didn't say anything wrong.

It's one thing to talk about it with other women but to hear it from a man's perspective is incredibly depressing. 

njnancy said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

njnancy said:

OffSheGoes35 said:

I recognized her too, Nancy. I'm so thankful that you found all the right words. I was struggling. Damaged people don't know how to go along with the Boy Meets Girl formula anymore. 

Thanks. At least I can explain what a person that's met too many narcissists acts like and maybe someone can have a good future. It's up to him if he wants to bother to find out who she really is. I'll be working on finding some nice rocking chairs in the meantime.

PJ_Soul said:

I also recognize her, but I'm thinking about it from S_C's perspective only, and frankly, I think that anyone should walk away when red flags like that go up, whatever the causes of the behaviour may be. Maybe it's my cynicism talking, but at this point in my life I think it's better to be careful and preemptively avoid potential mega-drama in relationships. Aka, at the beginning of relationships, use the head, not the heart. I say this as someone with a very strong and long history of ignoring red flags because I thought our strong feelings for one another could overcome them, and that such problems could be worked out with time and love and tolerance, etc etc ... WRONG. They all usually just snowball.

This is exactly why I don't even bother anymore. I figure since they are in their 30's that he should give her a chance. It's not her fault, if she indeed was manipulated at some point. I'd like to think that there are guys that won't blame her for what was done to her. It's just like getting used to a bitch or an introvert or an intellectual. Damaged people aren't bad people. We're actually very nice people in most cases, our vulnerability and non-judgemental nature is what was used against us. The asshole that messed us up is on to his next victim. She should have a chance at being understood. 

However, at this point in my life I think that people would think exactly what you wrote and why bother being misunderstood or hurt or , most likely, fooled again. It is sad that the 'victim' is the one who winds up alone. And I'm not old enough to be okay with spending my life alone, but I have accepted the fact that I will most likely do just that. 

I wouldn't consider it blaming, but generally people don't go all in on an investment if things are looking difficult from the outset. ideally the beginning of a relationship isn't supposed to be fraught with drama and misunderstandings. that's supposed to come later when the spark is gone and you aren't as engaged as you were at the outset. 

do I want to start dating someone who is going to take me on a roller coaster ride of emotions and confusion? or someone I can sit and chat with over coffee and post-sex for hours on end?

it's not "blaming" the damaged person. it's simply not wanting to be their caretaker or the focus of their damage. 

Ouch!

You didn't say anything wrong.

It's one thing to talk about it with other women but to hear it from a man's perspective is incredibly depressing. 

That doesn’t have to be a man’s perspective; that can be the perspective of anyone who doesn’t want to have to deal with the things that HFD doesn’t want to deal with, whether man or woman. 

Please keep in mind that some of us may understand what you mean in what may have happened to her. And it most certainly is a shame. But also keep in mind that if someone may have such deep seeded issues, it certainly still does not make it wrong for someone to walk away. Perhaps S_C:

•has enough self awareness to know that maybe he is not the right type of guy to handle a person in such a fragile state

•maybe he has been in the same type of relationship and is in the same state of mind she is in and he sees this as a potential long term issue

•he may know that despite how into her he is, he is not equipped to be the fixer she needs. If so, that is perfectly fine. 

njnancy said:

OffSheGoes35 said:

I recognized her too, Nancy. I'm so thankful that you found all the right words. I was struggling. Damaged people don't know how to go along with the Boy Meets Girl formula anymore. 

Thanks. At least I can explain what a person that's met too many narcissists acts like and maybe someone can have a good future. It's up to him if he wants to bother to find out who she really is. I'll be working on finding some nice rocking chairs in the meantime.

PJ_Soul said:

I also recognize her, but I'm thinking about it from S_C's perspective only, and frankly, I think that anyone should walk away when red flags like that go up, whatever the causes of the behaviour may be. Maybe it's my cynicism talking, but at this point in my life I think it's better to be careful and preemptively avoid potential mega-drama in relationships. Aka, at the beginning of relationships, use the head, not the heart. I say this as someone with a very strong and long history of ignoring red flags because I thought our strong feelings for one another could overcome them, and that such problems could be worked out with time and love and tolerance, etc etc ... WRONG. They all usually just snowball.

This is exactly why I don't even bother anymore. I figure since they are in their 30's that he should give her a chance. It's not her fault, if she indeed was manipulated at some point. I'd like to think that there are guys that won't blame her for what was done to her. It's just like getting used to a bitch or an introvert or an intellectual. Damaged people aren't bad people. We're actually very nice people in most cases, our vulnerability and non-judgemental nature is what was used against us. The asshole that messed us up is on to his next victim. She should have a chance at being understood. 

However, at this point in my life I think that people would think exactly what you wrote and why bother being misunderstood or hurt or , most likely, fooled again. It is sad that the 'victim' is the one who winds up alone. And I'm not old enough to be okay with spending my life alone, but I have accepted the fact that I will most likely do just that. 

I am not blaming her for anything though, and didn't say anything is her fault, and didn't say she is bad. I am, however, advocating for self-preservation over taking a chance on a relationship that starts out with negative drama, which is usually simply a bad sign, whether the person causing it has suffered adversity in the past or not. I am NOT saying that nobody should ever date people who have been damaged or hurt (I have been badly hurt myself, more than once). I am saying that it might be best to avoid people who create a ton of drama at the beginning of a relationship, and who flip flop back and forth about his or her feelings. Those two things don't necessarily go hand in hand, but even if they do, I don't think anyone is obligated to put up with it. Those of us who are vulnerable don't all create unnecessary drama and confusion at beginnings of relationships, right? And I don't think it's really fair to expect other people to put up with a bunch of wishy-washiness, or else call them judgemental.

njnancy said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

njnancy said:

OffSheGoes35 said:

I recognized her too, Nancy. I'm so thankful that you found all the right words. I was struggling. Damaged people don't know how to go along with the Boy Meets Girl formula anymore. 

Thanks. At least I can explain what a person that's met too many narcissists acts like and maybe someone can have a good future. It's up to him if he wants to bother to find out who she really is. I'll be working on finding some nice rocking chairs in the meantime.

PJ_Soul said:

I also recognize her, but I'm thinking about it from S_C's perspective only, and frankly, I think that anyone should walk away when red flags like that go up, whatever the causes of the behaviour may be. Maybe it's my cynicism talking, but at this point in my life I think it's better to be careful and preemptively avoid potential mega-drama in relationships. Aka, at the beginning of relationships, use the head, not the heart. I say this as someone with a very strong and long history of ignoring red flags because I thought our strong feelings for one another could overcome them, and that such problems could be worked out with time and love and tolerance, etc etc ... WRONG. They all usually just snowball.

This is exactly why I don't even bother anymore. I figure since they are in their 30's that he should give her a chance. It's not her fault, if she indeed was manipulated at some point. I'd like to think that there are guys that won't blame her for what was done to her. It's just like getting used to a bitch or an introvert or an intellectual. Damaged people aren't bad people. We're actually very nice people in most cases, our vulnerability and non-judgemental nature is what was used against us. The asshole that messed us up is on to his next victim. She should have a chance at being understood. 

However, at this point in my life I think that people would think exactly what you wrote and why bother being misunderstood or hurt or , most likely, fooled again. It is sad that the 'victim' is the one who winds up alone. And I'm not old enough to be okay with spending my life alone, but I have accepted the fact that I will most likely do just that. 

I wouldn't consider it blaming, but generally people don't go all in on an investment if things are looking difficult from the outset. ideally the beginning of a relationship isn't supposed to be fraught with drama and misunderstandings. that's supposed to come later when the spark is gone and you aren't as engaged as you were at the outset. 

do I want to start dating someone who is going to take me on a roller coaster ride of emotions and confusion? or someone I can sit and chat with over coffee and post-sex for hours on end?

it's not "blaming" the damaged person. it's simply not wanting to be their caretaker or the focus of their damage. 

Ouch!

You didn't say anything wrong.

It's one thing to talk about it with other women but to hear it from a man's perspective is incredibly depressing. 

well i don't know why anyone, male or female, would expect special treatment because of how they were treated in the past, right off the bat. over the long term, absolutely, when there is ground work in the relationship already laid. but at the beginning? if a guy is a douche to you, or unclear, or wishy washy, do you give him a chance thinking it wasn't his fault he was treated that way in the past by other women? i would hope not. 

Spiritual_Chaos said:

I wrote and said that I wanted another talk, when Im back. If its "final" then that is okey, but for me it would be good to know that when leaving the talk. I felt like the rug got pulled from under me last time. Hoodwinked. 

Like when Pearl Jam cancels a show just a few days before the gig.

Ahhh....like leaving for the Hampton, VA show in April 2016 and hearing the news say that Pearl Jam had cancelled their Raleigh show. It was exactly when I was leaving and I had added Hampton because Raleigh was my 10C win on my birthday and it broke up the trip between NJ and NC. PJ had held out so long, I really thought that I was good for that show, but it was a horrible feeling to hear it as I was walking out the door.  My cheap back/side stage ticket,was front row and I was on Mike's side and got a pick - my first PJ show, amazing crowd, had a blast. But yeah, Raleigh....rug pulled out, definitely know what you're saying. 

I hope your talk resolves the issues so that however it goes, you can feel like you know where you both stand and there isn't some awkward change in attitude all of a sudden. That is hard to deal with, it's not fun to think everything is great and then a text makes her ignore you. I get it. Glad that maybe I made sense of why it was happening, It sounds like you and her got along well, but if it is too weird then you know when you need to walk away. A last talk was a good idea on your part. Good luck! Hope it's an honest talk for both of you. 

Maybe she's really uncomfortable communicating via text....?  It sounds like all of the negative words came through that medium, but you were better than fine in person.

Just a thought.

I'm very sorry for you S_C! 

Some girls just need someone who does not run away so quickly. Maybe she just felt uneasy, you know, she just needs that you not give up and show that you're serious with her.

The older we get, the more uncompromising we become. This makes us suspicious and may prevent relationships that could had become really great.
You don't have to be a "damaged" person to not easily trust others. 

Nobody knows, if you like her that much just give her a chance… 

Keep your phone off. Have fun this weekend! She'll send a message. If not - it's her own fault. Maybe she did already?