14 years and counting...

mcgruff10 said:

The Juggler said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mcgruff10 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mcgruff10 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mcgruff10 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mcgruff10 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

PJ_Soul said:

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

There are programs for citizens already. It's not like they are taking from the existing kids and giving to the Dreamers instead. The whole point is obviously to enrich America in the long run. I think those who are worried about where that money is going now are just being really shortsighted about the whole thing.

They sort of are.
Money has to come from somewhere. Either they take it from other programs that would have gone to tuition for citizens, or it is taken from other sources that could have gone to healthcare, education, anything. Its not like this is free money that falls from trees and they have to decide who to give it to, its real money. So a program that is intended to only benefit illegal immigrants will have a negative financial impact on legal citizens whether it be lack of funding to education, police, health or whatever else it could have gone too. Or, as mentioned before, millions of citizens who are in thousands of dollars of student loan debt.

That really isn't how budgets and funding for programs works. If you and I sat down and did it, maybe it would be like that. Look, the government can actually afford both right now, easily, but it chooses to spend (waste) that money elsewhere either way.

I understand how budgets work. At the end of the day unless this grant is 100% privately funded (which it isn’t) the money comes from somewhere. Maybe not directly from another college grant, but does come from somewhere or taxes to pay for it. And if it doesn’t, then it’s contributing to our $23 trillion debt.
Which actually really scares me, if changes aren’t made to our budgets to repay this debt, we could see a collapse in my lifetime. Which is why I’m against just giving away unaccounted for money.

But it's not just "giving away" money. It's investing money into something that will have a pay off down the road. It's an investment for the future.

$27MM in NY State. $1.5T in tax cuts 80% of which went to the top 2%. But yea, the “other.”

 How much did you donate last year to send an illegal immigrant to college? 

I’m not sure. How about you? I’ll do some research and let you know. I do pay taxes though in my state.

Zero

My state has set up a fund solely for undocumented immigrants. There are restrictions such as graduate of in-state high school and attend a state college or university in-state. Fund is first come, first served and was started January 1st of this year for 2019/2020 academic year. Haven’t found how much has been allocated yet. So yea, it appears I will have funded an undocumented immigrant’s college education to some degree. I’m proud to live in a progressive state. Also, as a scholarship fund administrator for a scholarship fund set up by a departed friend, I may have granted scholarship money to an undocumented immigrant but I have no way of know since we don’t ask immigration/residency status of applicants.

At some point enough is enough so please don’t try to sell me the idea of increasing my taxes yet again to support  prople who are illegally here.  I pay over 10k In property taxes, let’s find ways to reduce that number instead of constantly increasing it. 

You seem to prefer to punish, limit, exclude, not sure what the proper term is, children who had no choice in the matter, brought to the US by they’re parent(s) as minors and are now willing and able to be productive members of society. Your stance leads to the things Team Trump Treason’s Stupid Wall he claims will prevent, crime, gang activity, drug trafficking. Pay for ROI or pay for incarceration, deportation, immigration hearings and get nothing for it. Seems like responsible fiscal policy, just like the wall is a wise investment.
 

You make some weird conclusions off of the simple point of that I can't afford any more taxes.  NJ is the most heavily taxed state in the country.  No more.  Our governor has illusions of free community college and $15 minimum wage; who the hell is paying for all of this?  oh yeah, the middle class lol. yeah no thanks.

But you’re going to eventually pay one way or the other anyway. Why not pay for the investment that gives you the greatest return on investment? My state has made community college free for all residents and we’re not drowning in debt or having our taxes raised through the roof.

What’s my weird conclusion?

He mentioned his "way too progressive governor" earlier and left out that under the previous gov for the last 8 years, Chris Christie, taxes in NJ went up about 2%.

Sorry I didn’t give the history of raising taxes in New Jersey lol. 

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

There are programs for citizens already. It's not like they are taking from the existing kids and giving to the Dreamers instead. The whole point is obviously to enrich America in the long run. I think those who are worried about where that money is going now are just being really shortsighted about the whole thing.

They sort of are.
Money has to come from somewhere. Either they take it from other programs that would have gone to tuition for citizens, or it is taken from other sources that could have gone to healthcare, education, anything. Its not like this is free money that falls from trees and they have to decide who to give it to, its real money. So a program that is intended to only benefit illegal immigrants will have a negative financial impact on legal citizens whether it be lack of funding to education, police, health or whatever else it could have gone too. Or, as mentioned before, millions of citizens who are in thousands of dollars of student loan debt.

That really isn't how budgets and funding for programs works. If you and I sat down and did it, maybe it would be like that. Look, the government can actually afford both right now, easily, but it chooses to spend (waste) that money elsewhere either way.

I understand how budgets work. At the end of the day unless this grant is 100% privately funded (which it isn’t) the money comes from somewhere. Maybe not directly from another college grant, but does come from somewhere or taxes to pay for it. And if it doesn’t, then it’s contributing to our $23 trillion debt.
Which actually really scares me, if changes aren’t made to our budgets to repay this debt, we could see a collapse in my lifetime. Which is why I’m against just giving away unaccounted for money.

How did you feel about the tax bill last year adding 2 trillion to the deficit?

At this point I'm against anything that adds debt. We need to be paying it down, not adding to it.
I'd probably vote for whoever has a convincing plan to reduce national debt. 
Debt was manageable until W. Bush, then Obama did even more damage to it. National debt is about 70k for every man woman and child. It comes to almost 200k for every tax payer. Its ridiculous, and getting close to beyond the point of ever recovering.

I thought it was beyond being able to pay back now anyways?

The country that is "too big to fail"...

If we go under the worlds economy will go with it unfortunately.

Thread integrity.

27mil is a drop in the bucket but so is 5Bil for that wall.

I know I'll be paying for both these things soon enough.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/index.html

OMG this thing is amazing.

So in a nutshell we spend 4T and take in 3T.

Medicaid and SS account for 1/2 of our spending...

Something else interesting is our workforce has not had a significant increase in almost 20 years.

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Do 8,9,10 year olds, or minors of any age, get jail time when their parent(s) get busted cooking meth? We don't punish children for the sins of their parents, why do different to undocumented immigrants?

Who is punishing them?
Since when is not getting free money a punishment?
In that context, all legal citizens are getting punished by the DREAM Act then.

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Do 8,9,10 year olds, or minors of any age, get jail time when their parent(s) get busted cooking meth? We don't punish children for the sins of their parents, why do different to undocumented immigrants?

Who is punishing them?
Since when is not getting free money a punishment?
In that context, all legal citizens are getting punished by the DREAM Act then.

Society. By denying them opportunity afforded to any other kid because their parent(s) brought them to the US when they were kids.

They are allowed to attend. I just don't equate not giving them free money as a form of punishment.
I don't think there is another country in the world where that would happen. Can we go to Canada and get free health or free education? Can we go anywhere in the world to expect that? Why does the world have such higher expectations for USA than they do of themselves?

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

There are programs for citizens already. It's not like they are taking from the existing kids and giving to the Dreamers instead. The whole point is obviously to enrich America in the long run. I think those who are worried about where that money is going now are just being really shortsighted about the whole thing.

They sort of are.
Money has to come from somewhere. Either they take it from other programs that would have gone to tuition for citizens, or it is taken from other sources that could have gone to healthcare, education, anything. Its not like this is free money that falls from trees and they have to decide who to give it to, its real money. So a program that is intended to only benefit illegal immigrants will have a negative financial impact on legal citizens whether it be lack of funding to education, police, health or whatever else it could have gone too. Or, as mentioned before, millions of citizens who are in thousands of dollars of student loan debt.

That really isn't how budgets and funding for programs works. If you and I sat down and did it, maybe it would be like that. Look, the government can actually afford both right now, easily, but it chooses to spend (waste) that money elsewhere either way.

I understand how budgets work. At the end of the day unless this grant is 100% privately funded (which it isn’t) the money comes from somewhere. Maybe not directly from another college grant, but does come from somewhere or taxes to pay for it. And if it doesn’t, then it’s contributing to our $23 trillion debt.
Which actually really scares me, if changes aren’t made to our budgets to repay this debt, we could see a collapse in my lifetime. Which is why I’m against just giving away unaccounted for money.

How did you feel about the tax bill last year adding 2 trillion to the deficit?

At this point I'm against anything that adds debt. We need to be paying it down, not adding to it.
I'd probably vote for whoever has a convincing plan to reduce national debt. 
Debt was manageable until W. Bush, then Obama did even more damage to it. National debt is about 70k for every man woman and child. It comes to almost 200k for every tax payer. Its ridiculous, and getting close to beyond the point of ever recovering.

I thought it was beyond being able to pay back now anyways?

The country that is "too big to fail"...

If we go under the worlds economy will go with it unfortunately.

Thread integrity.

27mil is a drop in the bucket but so is 5Bil for that wall.

I know I'll be paying for both these things soon enough.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/index.html

OMG this thing is amazing.

So in a nutshell we spend 4T and take in 3T.

Medicaid and SS account for 1/2 of our spending...

Something else interesting is our workforce has not had a significant increase in almost 20 years.

I sure am glad that another $1.5 trillion tax cut was passed, 82.8% of which went to the top 1% because, you know, they really, really, really needed it.

This is the thing that gets to me. While people argue about advantages poor or blue collar people might get... they offer a pass to the uber wealthy who keep shitting on the peons while sitting atop of their controlled empire.

Instead of saying, "No. No you don't need 5 billion dollars while Joey waits for medical treatment or Jose needs basic shelter"... they say, "Tell those bastards to WORK and EARN their meager existence before holding their hands out for assistance."

Know your enemy.

cincybearcat said:

Why skip the Southwest?