oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

To answer HFD's question further, the length the FBI and others went to to try and get Hilary elected is scary to me. The texts with high level FBI agents attempting to sway the election, to even small things like instructions to not call it an "investigation" because it sounds bad. I don't like any of that, talk about meddling in elections, it is happening right here in front of us but we're only worried about the other side of the world.

You live in a fantasy world. 

What fantasy is that? Comey admitted to it in interviews and his book, there are text messages between high level FBI agents saying they won't "let" Trump become president. Comey also said Lynch instructed him not to use the word "investigation" because it sounds bad. Comey admitted to reopening the investigation only because he thought Hillary was a shoe-in and it would look bad for him if he didnt. So what fantasy is it where these people wanted Hilary to win, because that is exactly what happened? 

Sir,

Going public TWICE with matters relating to the Clinton email issue/investigation (in which nothing came of it), including days before the election and not going public with the, obviously, more serious investigation into possible collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign basically handed the presidency to Donald Trump, not Hillary Clinton. Case closed.

538, among others, has great reporting regarding the polling models taking drastic changes in the days after Comey announced he was reopening the investigation 10 days or so before the election. Choosing not to believe that and to, instead, go down the Sean Hannity rabbit hole is the fantasy world you're living in.

Mistakes were made by Comey and Strock and his chick may have had some bias...however this does NOTHING--ZIP--NADA to change the fact that the actions the FBI took public greatly benefited Trump and greatly damaged Clinton... which completely blows up your fantasy world conspiracy. 

Not to mention the fact that you have Rudy Guilliani, Trump's own lawyer right now, telling Fox and Friends days before the election, that his sources in the FBI were telling him that they all wanted Trump to win and Hillary to lose. 

I never disputed that. It was very damaging. 
But what is also true is that Comey is an open Hilary supporter and has admitted that he re-opened the investigation thinking that there was no possible way that Trump would win. And knowing the impact that it had now he would do it differently. Those are his words, not my beliefs about it. So I don't see how that is a fantasy or a rabbit hole. I never said the investigation didn't hurt Hilary, just that Comey only did it not realizing the damage it would cause.
The only statement of yours I am unfamiliar with is the last one, and even if true there were still others who stated they won't "let" Trump win.  But that doesn't change the fact on anything Comey said (which is what I believe you were calling the fantasy-rabbit hole). He wanted Hilary to win and would not have opened the investigation if he realized how much damage it would do. His words.

So you blame Comey because he secretly wanted Clinton to win? That applies to most sane people, so I'm not sure that it's the criticism that you hope it to be. The only material issue is that he took no actions directly to make it more likely that she won, and in fact took actions that made it less likely.

Also, he is now "openly" a Clinton supporter, but was not during that time period, so hard to call that "open" in that context. 

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

To answer HFD's question further, the length the FBI and others went to to try and get Hilary elected is scary to me. The texts with high level FBI agents attempting to sway the election, to even small things like instructions to not call it an "investigation" because it sounds bad. I don't like any of that, talk about meddling in elections, it is happening right here in front of us but we're only worried about the other side of the world.

You live in a fantasy world. 

What fantasy is that? Comey admitted to it in interviews and his book, there are text messages between high level FBI agents saying they won't "let" Trump become president. Comey also said Lynch instructed him not to use the word "investigation" because it sounds bad. Comey admitted to reopening the investigation only because he thought Hillary was a shoe-in and it would look bad for him if he didnt. So what fantasy is it where these people wanted Hilary to win, because that is exactly what happened? 

Sir,

Going public TWICE with matters relating to the Clinton email issue/investigation (in which nothing came of it), including days before the election and not going public with the, obviously, more serious investigation into possible collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign basically handed the presidency to Donald Trump, not Hillary Clinton. Case closed.

538, among others, has great reporting regarding the polling models taking drastic changes in the days after Comey announced he was reopening the investigation 10 days or so before the election. Choosing not to believe that and to, instead, go down the Sean Hannity rabbit hole is the fantasy world you're living in.

Mistakes were made by Comey and Strock and his chick may have had some bias...however this does NOTHING--ZIP--NADA to change the fact that the actions the FBI took public greatly benefited Trump and greatly damaged Clinton... which completely blows up your fantasy world conspiracy. 

Not to mention the fact that you have Rudy Guilliani, Trump's own lawyer right now, telling Fox and Friends days before the election, that his sources in the FBI were telling him that they all wanted Trump to win and Hillary to lose. 

I never disputed that. It was very damaging. 
But what is also true is that Comey is an open Hilary supporter and has admitted that he re-opened the investigation thinking that there was no possible way that Trump would win. And knowing the impact that it had now he would do it differently. Those are his words, not my beliefs about it. So I don't see how that is a fantasy or a rabbit hole. I never said the investigation didn't hurt Hilary, just that Comey only did it not realizing the damage it would cause.
The only statement of yours I am unfamiliar with is the last one, and even if true there were still others who stated they won't "let" Trump win.  But that doesn't change the fact on anything Comey said (which is what I believe you were calling the fantasy-rabbit hole). He wanted Hilary to win and would not have opened the investigation if he realized how much damage it would do. His words.

Sir,
Jim Comey IS A REPUBLICAN. He has never said he is a Hillary supporter. And he never said he reopened the investing because he thought "there was no possible way" Trump would win. That's a Trump administration talking point. It is not advisable to use Trump administration talking points as facts...because they are usually lies.  Here is good reading on the subject:
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/13/james-comey-clinton-investigation-poll-numbers-522958

Fact-check: Comey didn’t say he reopened Clinton investigation because of poll numbers

In his book he says he was concerned about making her an illegitimate president by not revealing this to the public. But in hindsight, he did that to Trump by not revealing that investigation. He made big mistakes during that election. He should've just revealed both investigations. But, ultimately, the actions he and the FBI did and did not take publicly directly benefited Trump and likely got him into the White House.
If the FBI had wanted Hillary to win, they would have let the public know that Russia was interfering in the election with the intent on helping Trump win. That would've been leaked out one way or the other. They didn't do that. The whole argument is nonsense. 

I'm surprised you didn't know about the Giuliani story. It was a big deal in the weeks leading up to the election....and it flies directly into the face of Trump's narrative that the FBI wanted Hillary to win.

Halifax2TheMax said:

Did this ever happen under previous Administrations? 

https://apple.news/A3fMXpYoGSzmqDEXnL9bFiQ

The Juggler said:

^
He was a republican for probably over 30 years up until LAST year. He was a republican during the time in question. Bravo to him for putting his country over his corrupt political party.

I said his wife and daughters supported Hillary. That does not mean he is/was a supporter. There is no evidence of Comey being a Hillary supporter.

The article you're talking about regarding what he wants to happen in 2020 was from last week. Come on, dude. We are talking about events from two and a half years ago. Of course NOW he wants democrats to win in 2020. Republicans have done nothing but demonize him since Trump fired him. And he is, by all accounts, a sane person who sees the kind of president Trump has been.

The point is you cannot find any evidence that he was a Hillary supporter and wanted her to win in 2016. All of his public actions helped Donald Trump.

mace1229 said:

The Juggler said:

^
He was a republican for probably over 30 years up until LAST year. He was a republican during the time in question. Bravo to him for putting his country over his corrupt political party.

I said his wife and daughters supported Hillary. That does not mean he is/was a supporter. There is no evidence of Comey being a Hillary supporter.

The article you're talking about regarding what he wants to happen in 2020 was from last week. Come on, dude. We are talking about events from two and a half years ago. Of course NOW he wants democrats to win in 2020. Republicans have done nothing but demonize him since Trump fired him. And he is, by all accounts, a sane person who sees the kind of president Trump has been.

The point is you cannot find any evidence that he was a Hillary supporter and wanted her to win in 2016. All of his public actions helped Donald Trump.

No, I cannot find anything where he publicly promotes Hilary. But he removed himself as republican by 2016 election I think before the election. And watching several interviews during his book tour, it was clear to me of his distaste for Trump. He's made it known he doesn't like Trump for a while. That was just he latest of interviews and comments I posted. I dont think Comey is worth talking about, I think we'll ljust have to disagree on who we think he wanted to be president in 2016. I can agree he likely cost Hilary the election, I never disputed that.

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Did this ever happen under previous Administrations? 

https://apple.news/A3fMXpYoGSzmqDEXnL9bFiQ

That is a sad story and I hope it never happens. But my guess is it probably isn't that rare. And one of the big reasons I am against promoting mass immigration like this. The article doesn't give many details, other than she was in custody for about 8 hours until she died and they they had a record number in custody for a small facility. She may not have even been showing sings of serious illness until it was too late. When you have hundreds in custody in places that are meant to house just a few dozen this will continue to happen and conditions will be horrible. The article says that facility received a record number of 227 that day and was "Extremely large" for their standards. Even if water was available, 8 hours is not that long to go without a medical exam when you are not equipped for that number of people, and was probably already beyond the point of needing just water at that point.
I am for granting asylum to those who need it, but this caravan is not the right way to do it. Conditions in Mexico are horrible where they are being housed and I bet disease is rampant there. And y biggest concern is if this caravan is encouraged the numbers will probably grow next time and cases like this will be more common.

For how many weeks/months were told of the invasion? And we’re supposed to be the “greatest” nation on earth? I’m embarrassed by the ineptitude you helped elect.

Her death had absolutely zero to do with providing for the caravan. If the US brought In-In-Out, gatorade and put them in a luxury hotel to everyojn in the caravan she'd still be dead. This was a remote desert in NM several hundred miles away from the caravan, not equipped for large people when they had nearly 400 caught in 2 days, a record high. I couldn't find how many it was built to hold, but they called this an "extremely high" number and say this facility was built to house individuals, not multiple families.
So how would preparing for the caravan have prevented this? It would do nothing for that. And promoting the idea that if you just show up you get in will only encourage wreckless attempts like this and will have the same result. We can't be expected to build stations to house thousands across the entire boarder, and provide food water and medical attention to thousands that show up in even remote areas. That is just unrealistic.  This is the danger of promoting large groups like this, and there is no way to prepare for it and sustain it for the long term. 
If she was one of 20 who were detained she may be alive. But being 1 of 400 who were detained it isn't surprising. Now if she had obvious signs of a serious medical conditions that were made known and went untreated, that would be a different story. None of that is known at the time, so I am going on the assumption that the first physical signs were the seizures, and by then it was too late.

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Did this ever happen under previous Administrations? 

https://apple.news/A3fMXpYoGSzmqDEXnL9bFiQ

That is a sad story and I hope it never happens. But my guess is it probably isn't that rare. And one of the big reasons I am against promoting mass immigration like this. The article doesn't give many details, other than she was in custody for about 8 hours until she died and they they had a record number in custody for a small facility. She may not have even been showing sings of serious illness until it was too late. When you have hundreds in custody in places that are meant to house just a few dozen this will continue to happen and conditions will be horrible. The article says that facility received a record number of 227 that day and was "Extremely large" for their standards. Even if water was available, 8 hours is not that long to go without a medical exam when you are not equipped for that number of people, and was probably already beyond the point of needing just water at that point.
I am for granting asylum to those who need it, but this caravan is not the right way to do it. Conditions in Mexico are horrible where they are being housed and I bet disease is rampant there. And y biggest concern is if this caravan is encouraged the numbers will probably grow next time and cases like this will be more common.

For how many weeks/months were told of the invasion? And we’re supposed to be the “greatest” nation on earth? I’m embarrassed by the ineptitude you helped elect.

Her death had absolutely zero to do with providing for the caravan. If the US brought In-In-Out, gatorade and put them in a luxury hotel to everyojn in the caravan she'd still be dead. This was a remote desert in NM several hundred miles away from the caravan, not equipped for large people when they had nearly 400 caught in 2 days, a record high. I couldn't find how many it was built to hold, but they called this an "extremely high" number and say this facility was built to house individuals, not multiple families.
So how would preparing for the caravan have prevented this? It would do nothing for that. And promoting the idea that if you just show up you get in will only encourage wreckless attempts like this and will have the same result. We can't be expected to build stations to house thousands across the entire boarder, and provide food water and medical attention to thousands that show up in even remote areas. That is just unrealistic.  This is the danger of promoting large groups like this, and there is no way to prepare for it and sustain it for the long term. 
If she was one of 20 who were detained she may be alive. But being 1 of 400 who were detained it isn't surprising. Now if she had obvious signs of a serious medical conditions that were made known and went untreated, that would be a different story. None of that is known at the time, so I am going on the assumption that the first physical signs were the seizures, and by then it was too late.

How about the US provide a minimum of a health assessment, knowing that the people coming to the border have most likely endured a physically demanding environment and experience, as a first reaction to the encounter rather than cuffing and detaining them? Is that beyond our capabilities?
 

I knew this was coming.  Surprised it took this long.

mace1229 said:

The Juggler said:

^
He was a republican for probably over 30 years up until LAST year. He was a republican during the time in question. Bravo to him for putting his country over his corrupt political party.

I said his wife and daughters supported Hillary. That does not mean he is/was a supporter. There is no evidence of Comey being a Hillary supporter.

The article you're talking about regarding what he wants to happen in 2020 was from last week. Come on, dude. We are talking about events from two and a half years ago. Of course NOW he wants democrats to win in 2020. Republicans have done nothing but demonize him since Trump fired him. And he is, by all accounts, a sane person who sees the kind of president Trump has been.

The point is you cannot find any evidence that he was a Hillary supporter and wanted her to win in 2016. All of his public actions helped Donald Trump.

No, I cannot find anything where he publicly promotes Hilary. But he removed himself as republican by 2016 election I think before the election. And watching several interviews during his book tour, it was clear to me of his distaste for Trump. He's made it known he doesn't like Trump for a while. That was just he latest of interviews and comments I posted. I dont think Comey is worth talking about, I think we'll ljust have to disagree on who we think he wanted to be president in 2016. I can agree he likely cost Hilary the election, I never disputed that.

josevolution said:

I blame this government for the death of 7 yr old ..this administration is evil in all matters there’s nothing anyone can’t point too that you can classify as humanitarian go ahead look for it ..