America's Gun Violence

mace1229 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

“Responsible” gun owners for how long? Over/under?

https://apple.news/Ac4qkYZzaRZmRIpM-S9-YOg

I love what Cletus says: “There are two things, I got two motivators,” Wolfgram said. “One, we thought it would be good for everybody’s safety to have a handgun in the home. And then also, it’s kind of fun. So we have company outings planned for going to the shooting range and this kind of thing.”

He tosses the proverbial 'safety and protection' ditty in there, but adds the real motivation afterwards that you just can't justify by itself... havin' fun shootin' shit.

Yee haw.

I'm only singling you out 30 because I feel I'll have the best shot getting a real answer.
1. Do you really think most gun owners fit that stereotype? I didn't think the anti-gun crowd really believe that, but I am seriously questioning it since there are many in the anti-gun crowd who only refer to gun owners and redneck, inbreeds without teeth with an IQ of about 12.

2. If you don't really believe that, then what is the point of continuing to reinforce that stereotype? Doesn't that just separate the 2 sides further, making compromise less likely to happen? If I really wanted change from a group, I wouldn't attack them and call them names every chance I get, then expect any sort of change.

Its not offensive to me, but I guess you can say it is a pet peeve, and even more so that it is acceptable to stereotype a group. A group who mostly want change too, but is isolated by comments like that.

I know you specifically asked someone else, but, for me...
1. Most?  No.  It's a stereotype rooted in truth, but obviously, we notice people being nitwits more than we notice them not being nitwits.*  Over the past few years with the shootings, I've learned that far, far fewer gun owners are NRA members than I thought.  So it is important for folks to remember that anecdotes are not stats.  My take on this question is that no, most people that have guns probably hope they'll never have to use it "for real."  Do they like going to the range?  I dunno.  And if they do, I don't know that I care.  But there is always going to be someone willing to be that anecdotal poster-child who calls a gun "my new toy" or accidentally shoots his dog while shooting at cans in his yard for fun.  Most?  No.

*Great parallel.  When I was in 5th grade (mid-1980s) the teacher asked each of us to right down what % of people our age smoked.  I guess 15% and I was closer than most, as many were guessing over 50%.  The answer was 5% (5th and 6th graders).  The teacher was fed this question from someone else who said that most of us would significantly overestimate.  He didn't believe it, but it was spot-on.  Why?  Because you notice someone doing something like that, but those not doing it?  You don't notice.  Same with people being stupid with their guns.  They make the news, they say stupid things, etc.  But you don't see all the people with guns locked in their cabinets.  That doesn't mean gun culture can't be improved, though.  

2.  Because it's the hyperbolic way we talk. And, to quote someone quoted above, "and also, it's kind of fun."  As I said, the stereotype is rooted in some truth, and I do think there is value in pointing out the way that gun culture can get out of hand and lead to H2M posting stories about "responsible" gun owners.  While the "Cletus" stereotype is probably a lot smaller than some of us liberal elitists think, the number of "regular, soccer-coaching, office-job-holding" people that are lax on safety might be larger.  That's probably where some education comes in and, yes, if people feel under attack simply for having guns, they'll be less receptive to heeding constructive advice.  

In other words, there's so much nuance, I've actually stated both the value in focusing on anecdotes and the harm in the stereotyping that results from them.

Clear as mud? I wish I'd have not answered. But that took enough time that I am hitting "post."

mace1229 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

“Responsible” gun owners for how long? Over/under?

https://apple.news/Ac4qkYZzaRZmRIpM-S9-YOg

I love what Cletus says: “There are two things, I got two motivators,” Wolfgram said. “One, we thought it would be good for everybody’s safety to have a handgun in the home. And then also, it’s kind of fun. So we have company outings planned for going to the shooting range and this kind of thing.”

He tosses the proverbial 'safety and protection' ditty in there, but adds the real motivation afterwards that you just can't justify by itself... havin' fun shootin' shit.

Yee haw.

I'm only singling you out 30 because I feel I'll have the best shot getting a real answer.
1. Do you really think most gun owners fit that stereotype? I didn't think the anti-gun crowd really believe that, but I am seriously questioning it since there are many in the anti-gun crowd who only refer to gun owners and redneck, inbreeds without teeth with an IQ of about 12.

2. If you don't really believe that, then what is the point of continuing to reinforce that stereotype? Doesn't that just separate the 2 sides further, making compromise less likely to happen? If I really wanted change from a group, I wouldn't attack them and call them names every chance I get, then expect any sort of change.

Its not offensive to me, but I guess you can say it is a pet peeve, and even more so that it is acceptable to stereotype a group. A group who mostly want change too, but is isolated by comments like that.

1. No. Of course not. And the simple, bucktoothed yokels I do refer to are rarely- if ever- the types that commit the murders that horrify the whole world. I use that awful description almost metaphorically.

2. It is a case of the tail wagging the dog. In a democracy, the simple, bucktoothed yokel has as much influence as someone that might have a better idea on how to evolve as a society. The simple man wants his simple pleasures. He wants to shoot shit. As I said before, he's hardly ever the psychopathic mass murderer, but he's not the cure either.

Some things need to be set aside for the betterment of everyone. Assault rifles and large capacity magazines... as fun as they might be... are a couple of items I feel are unnecessary for the common citizen who truly has no need for them.

There are things in life called 'needs' and 'wants'. Active hunters 'need' a hunting rifle to kill their protein. Home owners might even 'need' a weapon to make them feel safer at home. I support both these needs and neither of these needs demand a handgun or assault rifle.

Gun enthusiasts 'want' assault rifles to shoot shit. I don't support this want when periodically the side effect is 50 people killed at a concert... or school children killed while attending elementary school... or... you get my drift. 

Halifax2TheMax said:

Another “responsible” gun owner just not in the mood to be pulled over.

https://apple.news/AnjYO-2rkTKqe7wqpTMqrVg

Nice to be driving along and encounter that, maybe with your kids in the car. ‘Murica. Woot!

That was crazy.. how about the car that came up, checked it out, and then reversed at full speed.  I would have been tempted to ram that door of the shooter like it was GTA VI

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Another “responsible” gun owner just not in the mood to be pulled over.

https://apple.news/AnjYO-2rkTKqe7wqpTMqrVg

Nice to be driving along and encounter that, maybe with your kids in the car. ‘Murica. Woot!

That was crazy.. how about the car that came up, checked it out, and then reversed at full speed.  I would have been tempted to ram that door of the shooter like it was GTA VI

Or pulled out your RPG and just lit him up. 

Yeah that would work too.  But then maybe I wouldn't have been able to get his ammo.  

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Another “responsible” gun owner just not in the mood to be pulled over.

https://apple.news/AnjYO-2rkTKqe7wqpTMqrVg

Nice to be driving along and encounter that, maybe with your kids in the car. ‘Murica. Woot!

That was crazy.. how about the car that came up, checked it out, and then reversed at full speed.  I would have been tempted to ram that door of the shooter like it was GTA VI

Or pulled out your RPG and just lit him up. 

Yeah that would work too.  But then maybe I wouldn't have been able to get his ammo.  

But you’d get the girl

Excellent point.  Don't need to go the strip bars. 

vaggar99 said:

i'm getting to be okay with gun violence.  i just pay attention to all of the people that haven't been shot today.  optimism. it works.

Great idea! This is glass half full thinking and a refreshing perspective. Focus on the non-dead people (in the end they are only numbers that make up statistics that are ignored anyways).

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

vaggar99 said:

i'm getting to be okay with gun violence.  i just pay attention to all of the people that haven't been shot today.  optimism. it works.

Great idea! This is glass half full thinking and a refreshing perspective. Focus on the non-dead people (in the end they are only numbers that make up statistics that are ignored anyways).

Focusing on the non-dead is much more comforting than having to focus on the undead

vaggar99 said:

couple nights ago on Facebook.  gun nuts perspective:  I have 5000 FB friends.  I pretty much know everyone.  not one has been shot lately.  questions?

Are all of your friends 13, or just this one?

Nothing can be done.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/this-list-of-lives-lost-in-mass-shootings-grows-longer-here-are-their-names/2018/11/16/ef545246-e9fe-11e8-a939-9469f1166f9d_story.html