Beto O'Rourke

PJPOWER · October 2018

Spiritual_Chaos said:

PJPOWER said:

pjl44 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

How can guns be such a big thing for americans.... it's just... I mean... it's not the environment, health care, education...

Everything you listed is a pretty big issue here. As far as guns go, it's one part sport and one part self defense. Fully automatic weapons have been outlawed and background check systems implemented - no one really bat an eye on that except the serious hardliners.

The reason there is so much debate recently is people keep pushing to ban stuff and aren't clear about what they're calling to ban. A "weapon of war" or "assault rifle" are general terms that you couldn't write into an actual law. I could show you two guns that work exactly the same mechanically - one would look like granpa's hunting rifle and the other would be super scary.

Without going on and on, the reason this persists is because it's really easy to have strong rhetoric on either side of the debate and really hard to write a law that will make any practical difference without seizing hundreds of millions of dollars of personal property. All in a time where our violent crime rate is at it's lowest point in 60 years.

Exactly, and if abortions and guns are “not that big of issues”, then why are they a couple of the major stances that O’Rourke is running on? If the environment, teacher pay, etc are of more importance, why throw in what spiritual chaos described as meaningless issues that dissuade people from voting for you? Maybe because they are HUGE issues with democrats right now? Why is it cool for liberals to be so concerned about those things, but not conservatives? If the environment and teacher pay are the main target of his agendas, then focusing on those and not focusing on hugely controversial issues (for Texans) might gain more bipartisan support.

Because making it normal (as in, like most of the western world do it) instead of making it crazy like the right wants, is an issue. The issue is - making the state/country of yours sane.

“Normal”...Easy to say coming from a country with very little cultural diversity.

pjl44 · October 2018

Spiritual_Chaos said:

pjl44 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

pjl44 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

How can guns be such a big thing for americans.... it's just... I mean... it's not the environment, health care, education...

Everything you listed is a pretty big issue here. As far as guns go, it's one part sport and one part self defense. Fully automatic weapons have been outlawed and background check systems implemented - no one really bat an eye on that except the serious hardliners.

The reason there is so much debate recently is people keep pushing to ban stuff and aren't clear about what they're calling to ban. A "weapon of war" or "assault rifle" are general terms that you couldn't write into an actual law. I could show you two guns that work exactly the same mechanically - one would look like granpa's hunting rifle and the other would be super scary.

Without going on and on, the reason this persists is because it's really easy to have strong rhetoric on either side of the debate and really hard to write a law that will make any practical difference without seizing hundreds of millions of dollars of personal property. All in a time where our violent crime rate is at it's lowest point in 60 years.

And still - US: 4.62 fire-arm homocides per 100.000. Sweden 0,19 per 100.000.

So, "All in a time" might just be the time to still try to change things. And lowest point in 60 years could be seen as moot.

And yes, in both countries you are allowed to own guns.

but I guess texans have their priorities... ..

I can guarantee no one on a Pearl Jam message board is going to change my views on 2A much and I'm also pretty sure I can't change yours. Best I can do is frame the argument and answer the question if you're asking it earnestly.

I asked it earnestly.

And I answered it. Beyond that, I have zero interest in comparing rate stats between countries. It's extraordinarily safe here, as I assume it is in Sweden, too.

Spiritual_Chaos · October 2018

pjl44 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

pjl44 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

pjl44 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

How can guns be such a big thing for americans.... it's just... I mean... it's not the environment, health care, education...

Everything you listed is a pretty big issue here. As far as guns go, it's one part sport and one part self defense. Fully automatic weapons have been outlawed and background check systems implemented - no one really bat an eye on that except the serious hardliners.

The reason there is so much debate recently is people keep pushing to ban stuff and aren't clear about what they're calling to ban. A "weapon of war" or "assault rifle" are general terms that you couldn't write into an actual law. I could show you two guns that work exactly the same mechanically - one would look like granpa's hunting rifle and the other would be super scary.

Without going on and on, the reason this persists is because it's really easy to have strong rhetoric on either side of the debate and really hard to write a law that will make any practical difference without seizing hundreds of millions of dollars of personal property. All in a time where our violent crime rate is at it's lowest point in 60 years.

And still - US: 4.62 fire-arm homocides per 100.000. Sweden 0,19 per 100.000.

So, "All in a time" might just be the time to still try to change things. And lowest point in 60 years could be seen as moot.

And yes, in both countries you are allowed to own guns.

but I guess texans have their priorities... ..

I can guarantee no one on a Pearl Jam message board is going to change my views on 2A much and I'm also pretty sure I can't change yours. Best I can do is frame the argument and answer the question if you're asking it earnestly.

I asked it earnestly.

And I answered it. Beyond that, I have zero interest in comparing rate stats between countries. It's extraordinarily safe here, as I assume it is in Sweden, too.

Like 20 times less safe in the US when it comes to being killed by a gun.

And in both countries you are free to own a gun.

Just added some context to your answer and opinion that it's saver then ever so it's not a time to discuss guns.

Thanks for your answer.

Spiritual_Chaos · October 2018

PJPOWER said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

PJPOWER said:

pjl44 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

How can guns be such a big thing for americans.... it's just... I mean... it's not the environment, health care, education...

Everything you listed is a pretty big issue here. As far as guns go, it's one part sport and one part self defense. Fully automatic weapons have been outlawed and background check systems implemented - no one really bat an eye on that except the serious hardliners.

The reason there is so much debate recently is people keep pushing to ban stuff and aren't clear about what they're calling to ban. A "weapon of war" or "assault rifle" are general terms that you couldn't write into an actual law. I could show you two guns that work exactly the same mechanically - one would look like granpa's hunting rifle and the other would be super scary.

Without going on and on, the reason this persists is because it's really easy to have strong rhetoric on either side of the debate and really hard to write a law that will make any practical difference without seizing hundreds of millions of dollars of personal property. All in a time where our violent crime rate is at it's lowest point in 60 years.

Exactly, and if abortions and guns are “not that big of issues”, then why are they a couple of the major stances that O’Rourke is running on? If the environment, teacher pay, etc are of more importance, why throw in what spiritual chaos described as meaningless issues that dissuade people from voting for you? Maybe because they are HUGE issues with democrats right now? Why is it cool for liberals to be so concerned about those things, but not conservatives? If the environment and teacher pay are the main target of his agendas, then focusing on those and not focusing on hugely controversial issues (for Texans) might gain more bipartisan support.

Because making it normal (as in, like most of the western world do it) instead of making it crazy like the right wants, is an issue. The issue is - making the state/country of yours sane.

“Normal”...Easy to say coming from a country with very little cultural diversity.

So?

cincybearcat · October 2018

Spiritual_Chaos said:

pjl44 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

pjl44 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

pjl44 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

How can guns be such a big thing for americans.... it's just... I mean... it's not the environment, health care, education...

Everything you listed is a pretty big issue here. As far as guns go, it's one part sport and one part self defense. Fully automatic weapons have been outlawed and background check systems implemented - no one really bat an eye on that except the serious hardliners.

The reason there is so much debate recently is people keep pushing to ban stuff and aren't clear about what they're calling to ban. A "weapon of war" or "assault rifle" are general terms that you couldn't write into an actual law. I could show you two guns that work exactly the same mechanically - one would look like granpa's hunting rifle and the other would be super scary.

Without going on and on, the reason this persists is because it's really easy to have strong rhetoric on either side of the debate and really hard to write a law that will make any practical difference without seizing hundreds of millions of dollars of personal property. All in a time where our violent crime rate is at it's lowest point in 60 years.

And still - US: 4.62 fire-arm homocides per 100.000. Sweden 0,19 per 100.000.

So, "All in a time" might just be the time to still try to change things. And lowest point in 60 years could be seen as moot.

And yes, in both countries you are allowed to own guns.

but I guess texans have their priorities... ..

I can guarantee no one on a Pearl Jam message board is going to change my views on 2A much and I'm also pretty sure I can't change yours. Best I can do is frame the argument and answer the question if you're asking it earnestly.

I asked it earnestly.

And I answered it. Beyond that, I have zero interest in comparing rate stats between countries. It's extraordinarily safe here, as I assume it is in Sweden, too.

Like 20 times less safe in the US when it comes to being killed by a gun.

And in both countries you are free to own a gun.

Just added some context to your answer and opinion that it's saver then ever so it's not a time to discuss guns.

Thanks for your answer.

It does depend on the area though. Lots of safe places with guns. Which is part of the problem. Those people don’t understand the need cause it’s safe where they live.

cincybearcat · October 2018

Spiritual_Chaos said:

PJPOWER said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

PJPOWER said:

pjl44 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

How can guns be such a big thing for americans.... it's just... I mean... it's not the environment, health care, education...

Everything you listed is a pretty big issue here. As far as guns go, it's one part sport and one part self defense. Fully automatic weapons have been outlawed and background check systems implemented - no one really bat an eye on that except the serious hardliners.

The reason there is so much debate recently is people keep pushing to ban stuff and aren't clear about what they're calling to ban. A "weapon of war" or "assault rifle" are general terms that you couldn't write into an actual law. I could show you two guns that work exactly the same mechanically - one would look like granpa's hunting rifle and the other would be super scary.

Without going on and on, the reason this persists is because it's really easy to have strong rhetoric on either side of the debate and really hard to write a law that will make any practical difference without seizing hundreds of millions of dollars of personal property. All in a time where our violent crime rate is at it's lowest point in 60 years.

Exactly, and if abortions and guns are “not that big of issues”, then why are they a couple of the major stances that O’Rourke is running on? If the environment, teacher pay, etc are of more importance, why throw in what spiritual chaos described as meaningless issues that dissuade people from voting for you? Maybe because they are HUGE issues with democrats right now? Why is it cool for liberals to be so concerned about those things, but not conservatives? If the environment and teacher pay are the main target of his agendas, then focusing on those and not focusing on hugely controversial issues (for Texans) might gain more bipartisan support.

Because making it normal (as in, like most of the western world do it) instead of making it crazy like the right wants, is an issue. The issue is - making the state/country of yours sane.

“Normal”...Easy to say coming from a country with very little cultural diversity.

So?

You don’t think dealing with diversity creates unique challenges?

Spiritual_Chaos · October 2018

cincybearcat said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

PJPOWER said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

PJPOWER said:

pjl44 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

How can guns be such a big thing for americans.... it's just... I mean... it's not the environment, health care, education...

Everything you listed is a pretty big issue here. As far as guns go, it's one part sport and one part self defense. Fully automatic weapons have been outlawed and background check systems implemented - no one really bat an eye on that except the serious hardliners.

The reason there is so much debate recently is people keep pushing to ban stuff and aren't clear about what they're calling to ban. A "weapon of war" or "assault rifle" are general terms that you couldn't write into an actual law. I could show you two guns that work exactly the same mechanically - one would look like granpa's hunting rifle and the other would be super scary.

Without going on and on, the reason this persists is because it's really easy to have strong rhetoric on either side of the debate and really hard to write a law that will make any practical difference without seizing hundreds of millions of dollars of personal property. All in a time where our violent crime rate is at it's lowest point in 60 years.

Exactly, and if abortions and guns are “not that big of issues”, then why are they a couple of the major stances that O’Rourke is running on? If the environment, teacher pay, etc are of more importance, why throw in what spiritual chaos described as meaningless issues that dissuade people from voting for you? Maybe because they are HUGE issues with democrats right now? Why is it cool for liberals to be so concerned about those things, but not conservatives? If the environment and teacher pay are the main target of his agendas, then focusing on those and not focusing on hugely controversial issues (for Texans) might gain more bipartisan support.

Because making it normal (as in, like most of the western world do it) instead of making it crazy like the right wants, is an issue. The issue is - making the state/country of yours sane.

“Normal”...Easy to say coming from a country with very little cultural diversity.

So?

You don’t think dealing with diversity creates unique challenges?

What has that to do with abortion and/or gun laws?

pjl44 · October 2018

Spiritual_Chaos said:

pjl44 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

pjl44 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

pjl44 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

How can guns be such a big thing for americans.... it's just... I mean... it's not the environment, health care, education...

Everything you listed is a pretty big issue here. As far as guns go, it's one part sport and one part self defense. Fully automatic weapons have been outlawed and background check systems implemented - no one really bat an eye on that except the serious hardliners.

The reason there is so much debate recently is people keep pushing to ban stuff and aren't clear about what they're calling to ban. A "weapon of war" or "assault rifle" are general terms that you couldn't write into an actual law. I could show you two guns that work exactly the same mechanically - one would look like granpa's hunting rifle and the other would be super scary.

Without going on and on, the reason this persists is because it's really easy to have strong rhetoric on either side of the debate and really hard to write a law that will make any practical difference without seizing hundreds of millions of dollars of personal property. All in a time where our violent crime rate is at it's lowest point in 60 years.

And still - US: 4.62 fire-arm homocides per 100.000. Sweden 0,19 per 100.000.

So, "All in a time" might just be the time to still try to change things. And lowest point in 60 years could be seen as moot.

And yes, in both countries you are allowed to own guns.

but I guess texans have their priorities... ..

I can guarantee no one on a Pearl Jam message board is going to change my views on 2A much and I'm also pretty sure I can't change yours. Best I can do is frame the argument and answer the question if you're asking it earnestly.

I asked it earnestly.

And I answered it. Beyond that, I have zero interest in comparing rate stats between countries. It's extraordinarily safe here, as I assume it is in Sweden, too.

Like 20 times less safe in the US when it comes to being killed by a gun.

And in both countries you are free to own a gun.

Just added some context to your answer and opinion that it's saver then ever so it's not a time to discuss guns.

Thanks for your answer.

Yes, "20x less safe" sounds way scarier than 99.9999538% chance of not being a victim vs. 99.9999981%. As I suspected, and as is so often the case, you're not asking these questions in earnest.

oftenreading · October 2018

Spiritual_Chaos said:

cincybearcat said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

PJPOWER said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

PJPOWER said:

pjl44 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

How can guns be such a big thing for americans.... it's just... I mean... it's not the environment, health care, education...

Everything you listed is a pretty big issue here. As far as guns go, it's one part sport and one part self defense. Fully automatic weapons have been outlawed and background check systems implemented - no one really bat an eye on that except the serious hardliners.

The reason there is so much debate recently is people keep pushing to ban stuff and aren't clear about what they're calling to ban. A "weapon of war" or "assault rifle" are general terms that you couldn't write into an actual law. I could show you two guns that work exactly the same mechanically - one would look like granpa's hunting rifle and the other would be super scary.

Without going on and on, the reason this persists is because it's really easy to have strong rhetoric on either side of the debate and really hard to write a law that will make any practical difference without seizing hundreds of millions of dollars of personal property. All in a time where our violent crime rate is at it's lowest point in 60 years.

Exactly, and if abortions and guns are “not that big of issues”, then why are they a couple of the major stances that O’Rourke is running on? If the environment, teacher pay, etc are of more importance, why throw in what spiritual chaos described as meaningless issues that dissuade people from voting for you? Maybe because they are HUGE issues with democrats right now? Why is it cool for liberals to be so concerned about those things, but not conservatives? If the environment and teacher pay are the main target of his agendas, then focusing on those and not focusing on hugely controversial issues (for Texans) might gain more bipartisan support.

Because making it normal (as in, like most of the western world do it) instead of making it crazy like the right wants, is an issue. The issue is - making the state/country of yours sane.

“Normal”...Easy to say coming from a country with very little cultural diversity.

So?

You don’t think dealing with diversity creates unique challenges?

What has that to do with abortion and/or gun laws?

I can see it havIng a lot to do with abortion laws, but much less so with respect to actual gun violence than some might expect.

Halifax2TheMax · October 2018

Doesn’t even know who he is outside of Washington.

Simple Debate Question Stumps Ted Cruz Into 6 Seconds Of Painful Silence - HuffPost https://apple.news/Aj6FbvfWaT32-mquJSDXrcQ

Spiritual_Chaos · October 2018

pjl44 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

pjl44 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

pjl44 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

pjl44 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

How can guns be such a big thing for americans.... it's just... I mean... it's not the environment, health care, education...

Everything you listed is a pretty big issue here. As far as guns go, it's one part sport and one part self defense. Fully automatic weapons have been outlawed and background check systems implemented - no one really bat an eye on that except the serious hardliners.

The reason there is so much debate recently is people keep pushing to ban stuff and aren't clear about what they're calling to ban. A "weapon of war" or "assault rifle" are general terms that you couldn't write into an actual law. I could show you two guns that work exactly the same mechanically - one would look like granpa's hunting rifle and the other would be super scary.

Without going on and on, the reason this persists is because it's really easy to have strong rhetoric on either side of the debate and really hard to write a law that will make any practical difference without seizing hundreds of millions of dollars of personal property. All in a time where our violent crime rate is at it's lowest point in 60 years.

And still - US: 4.62 fire-arm homocides per 100.000. Sweden 0,19 per 100.000.

So, "All in a time" might just be the time to still try to change things. And lowest point in 60 years could be seen as moot.

And yes, in both countries you are allowed to own guns.

but I guess texans have their priorities... ..

I can guarantee no one on a Pearl Jam message board is going to change my views on 2A much and I'm also pretty sure I can't change yours. Best I can do is frame the argument and answer the question if you're asking it earnestly.

I asked it earnestly.

And I answered it. Beyond that, I have zero interest in comparing rate stats between countries. It's extraordinarily safe here, as I assume it is in Sweden, too.

Like 20 times less safe in the US when it comes to being killed by a gun.

And in both countries you are free to own a gun.

Just added some context to your answer and opinion that it's saver then ever so it's not a time to discuss guns.

Thanks for your answer.

Yes, "20x less safe" sounds way scarier than 99.9999538% chance of not being a victim vs. 99.9999981%. As I suspected, and as is so often the case, you're not asking these questions in earnest.

I didn't ask a question in that post. And I didn't post anything to make it sound scary.

cincybearcat · October 2018

Spiritual_Chaos said:

cincybearcat said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

PJPOWER said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

PJPOWER said:

pjl44 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

How can guns be such a big thing for americans.... it's just... I mean... it's not the environment, health care, education...

Everything you listed is a pretty big issue here. As far as guns go, it's one part sport and one part self defense. Fully automatic weapons have been outlawed and background check systems implemented - no one really bat an eye on that except the serious hardliners.

The reason there is so much debate recently is people keep pushing to ban stuff and aren't clear about what they're calling to ban. A "weapon of war" or "assault rifle" are general terms that you couldn't write into an actual law. I could show you two guns that work exactly the same mechanically - one would look like granpa's hunting rifle and the other would be super scary.

Without going on and on, the reason this persists is because it's really easy to have strong rhetoric on either side of the debate and really hard to write a law that will make any practical difference without seizing hundreds of millions of dollars of personal property. All in a time where our violent crime rate is at it's lowest point in 60 years.

Exactly, and if abortions and guns are “not that big of issues”, then why are they a couple of the major stances that O’Rourke is running on? If the environment, teacher pay, etc are of more importance, why throw in what spiritual chaos described as meaningless issues that dissuade people from voting for you? Maybe because they are HUGE issues with democrats right now? Why is it cool for liberals to be so concerned about those things, but not conservatives? If the environment and teacher pay are the main target of his agendas, then focusing on those and not focusing on hugely controversial issues (for Texans) might gain more bipartisan support.

Because making it normal (as in, like most of the western world do it) instead of making it crazy like the right wants, is an issue. The issue is - making the state/country of yours sane.

“Normal”...Easy to say coming from a country with very little cultural diversity.

So?

You don’t think dealing with diversity creates unique challenges?

What has that to do with abortion and/or gun laws?

Ummm lots of different backgrounds, etc leading to difference of opinions. Tougher to gain consensua on anything really.

Spiritual_Chaos · October 2018

I'm gonna have to go write a review for the new Halloween-movie now (MICHAEL MYERS IS BACK!) and after that I'm gonna try to run at the company gym while blasting some Pearl Jam, but I think Pjpower will come around and vote for Beto. In secret maybe. Or he'll let us now he's changed his minds on Ted. Either way is fine.

PJPOWER · October 2018

I wonder if your odds of being killed by a hand grenade are greater in Sweden than the US? Everything I have read states that gang and gun violence are on the rise in Sweden, especially in inner-cities. What does cultural diversity have to do with gang violence? Why the surge of these things in Sweden over the past 20 or so years? I wonder if the increase in immigration correlates with the increase in violence aka I wonder if the increased cultural diversity has effected the level of violence within the small country?

Spiritual_Chaos · October 2018

PJPOWER said:

I wonder if your odds of being killed by a hand grenade are greater in Sweden than the US? Everything I have read states that gang and gun violence are on the rise in Sweden, especially in inner-cities. What does cultural diversity have to do with gang violence? Why the surge of these things in Sweden over the past 20 or so years?

Where have you read this "everything" you are talking about? Your local paper, or what media?

Smellyman · October 2018

yeeeeehhhhhaaaaaaawwwwwww

oftenreading · October 2018

PJPOWER said:

I wonder if your odds of being killed by a hand grenade are greater in Sweden than the US? Everything I have read states that gang and gun violence are on the rise in Sweden, especially in inner-cities. What does cultural diversity have to do with gang violence? Why the surge of these things in Sweden over the past 20 or so years? I wonder if the increase in immigration correlates with the increase in violence aka I wonder if the increased cultural diversity has effected the level of violence within the small country?

Two people have been killed by grenades in the last twenty years in Sweden. I would hazard a guess that the number is higher in the USA. And certainly more than two people have died of gun violence in the USA in that time.

Spiritual_Chaos · October 2018

PJPOWER said:

I wonder if your odds of being killed by a hand grenade are greater in Sweden than the US? Everything I have read states that gang and gun violence are on the rise in Sweden, especially in inner-cities. What does cultural diversity have to do with gang violence? Why the surge of these things in Sweden over the past 20 or so years? I wonder if the increase in immigration correlates with the increase in violence aka I wonder if the increased cultural diversity has effected the level of violence within the small country?

To use our friend @pjl44 rhetoric:

"Sweden is a safe country and is becoming safer. It sees the one who looks at the statistics. The fatal violence has been the same in the last ten years, in international comparisons, low levels. Viewed over a longer period of time, it decreases - if you ignore the interwar period when strong regulation of alcohol consumption reduced fatal violence to levels that Sweden has not seen since."

It's safer than it has ever been.

PJPOWER · October 2018

Spiritual_Chaos said:

PJPOWER said:

I wonder if your odds of being killed by a hand grenade are greater in Sweden than the US? Everything I have read states that gang and gun violence are on the rise in Sweden, especially in inner-cities. What does cultural diversity have to do with gang violence? Why the surge of these things in Sweden over the past 20 or so years?

Where have you read this "everything" you are talking about? Your local paper, or what media?

Not even close:
https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-bombings-grenade-attacks-violent-reality-undoing-peaceful-self-image-law-and-order/
One of many out there. All you have to do is google “violence in Sweden” and a plethora of articles pop up regarding increased violence there. I thought it was all rainbows and gummy bears in Sweden...maybe not for much longer? Why the grenade violence in Sweden? You don’t hear much of grenade deaths in the US...?

oftenreading · October 2018

PJPOWER said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

PJPOWER said:

I wonder if your odds of being killed by a hand grenade are greater in Sweden than the US? Everything I have read states that gang and gun violence are on the rise in Sweden, especially in inner-cities. What does cultural diversity have to do with gang violence? Why the surge of these things in Sweden over the past 20 or so years?

Where have you read this "everything" you are talking about? Your local paper, or what media?

Not even close:
https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-bombings-grenade-attacks-violent-reality-undoing-peaceful-self-image-law-and-order/
One of many out there. All you have to do is google “violence in Sweden” and a plethora of articles pop up regarding increased violence there. I thought it was all rainbows and gummy bears in Sweden...maybe not for much longer? Why the grenade violence in Sweden? You don’t hear much of grenade deaths in the US...?

As above, two deaths. Two.

Beto O'Rourke

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