Kavanaugh

mickeyrat · September 2018

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/21/us/brett-kavanaugh-high-school.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

By Dan Levin

Sept. 21, 2018

Teenagers across the country are watching how adults are handling the allegations against President Trump’s Supreme Court nominee, and taking notes.

Layla King, a high school sophomore in St. Louis, Mo., was asked by her mother this week what she thinks about Brett M. Kavanaugh: If he was guilty at 17 of sexually assaulting a girl at a party decades ago, should he still be held accountable?

“He should,” said Ms. King, who is 15, “because you’re definitely supposed to know right from wrong by my age.”

Defenders of Mr. Kavanaugh have argued that events dating from so long ago are irrelevant and should have no impact on his confirmation. Mr. Kavanaugh, who is 53, has also denied the allegations. But teenagers across the country said in interviews that they were disturbed to see so many adults dismissing the accusations against Mr. Kavanaugh by Christine Blasey Ford. Much of the story felt familiar to them.

They recognized the scenario outlined in Dr. Blasey’s allegation — a drunk teenage boy taking advantage of a girl at a house party. And in the backlash against Dr. Blasey, a research psychologist in California, the teens saw the way girls are often criticized for calling out mistreatment.

On Thursday, President Trump questioned Dr. Blasey’s credibility, saying in a tweet that if the alleged attack “was as bad as she says,” charges would have been filed. Earlier in the week, Senator Orrin Hatch of Utah suggested Dr. Blasey was “mistaken” in her recollections. Right-wing news outlets have published rumors claiming she is mentally unbalanced or politically motivated.

Maycee Wieczorek, a 17-year-old in Rapid City, S.D., said it felt odd as a student to hear grown-ups dismissing the significance of Mr. Kavanaugh’s character in high school.

“For me and my friends his past is our now,” she said.

And she worried that if the Senate does not take Dr. Blasey’s allegations seriously, it will reaffirm the idea that “boys will be boys,” and teach a dangerous lesson to teenagers today.

“Boys will learn that what you do in high school won’t affect your future at all, so go do the damage you need to do now,” she said.

Ms. Wieczorek said she sees in the controversy a double standard for men and women’s behavior that is already well entrenched in high school.

“A boy is figuring out how to be a man, but girls are told, ‘You better shape up in order to be respected,’” she said. That much was clear at her school, she said, in the detentions frequently handed out to girls for dress code violations — a skirt judged as too short, spaghetti straps, a glimpse of bare midriff, anything teachers deem too “distracting.”

Boys, she said, are not subject to such dress-related infractions. “It’s telling girls you exist as an object for someone else’s attention, rather than you’re here to learn and that your education is important,” she said.

On Tuesday, Emma Thatcher, a high school student in Florida, tweeted: “I would just like to say that the emergence of this whole ‘teenage boys should get a pass because they’re not mature enough to understand consent’ narrative is probably one of the most unsettling things I have ever witnessed.”

Despite the rise of #MeToo, girls said they still felt objectified by their male classmates. A recent nationwide survey by PerryUndem, a research and polling firm, found that about three-quarters of girls 14 to 19 said they felt judged as a sexual object or unsafe as a girl. And compared to boys, they were more likely to say they felt pressure to put others’ feelings before their own.

Amy Zhou, a 17-year-old high school senior in Scottsdale, A.Z., said that during a national teen leadership summit she attended this summer, some of the boys were caught ranking online photos of the female participants by attractiveness. Even after conference officials addressed the incident, only one boy apologized, she said.

“We need to send a message that people should respect men and women,” she said. “Kavanaugh’s going to be upholding the supreme law of the land, so obviously he’s supposed to embody that principle.”

Sexual harassment remains part of the culture at parties, said Brennan Leach, 17, a senior who lives in Wayne, Pa. “Often times girls just come to terms with that experience as a normal part of high school life,” she said.

Ms. Leach said she was frustrated by the doubt cast on Dr. Blasey’s claims, a reaction other girls in her high school have also encountered.

“When a girl has come to school after a weekend party and says someone made her feel uncomfortable, she’s called a drama queen,” Ms. Leach said. “People would say she’s fabricating stories for attention. The language being used by a lot of Republicans is eerily similar to the way boys sound in high school.”

For some teenage boys, the controversy underscores the importance of treating girls with respect. And it has been sobering to realize that gaining a job as powerful as sitting on the Supreme Court bench could hinge on what may have occurred in high school.

Dan Radka, 17, a high school senior who lives in Clinton, Conn., said he had learned from friends who were girls how important it is to obtain consent in sexual situations. His teachers have also stressed using caution on social media, where youthful posts can live forever.

But Mr. Radka said the controversy in Washington has made him think even more deeply about making the right choices now and in college, knowing they may well impact his future.

“I don’t want to do something dumb that I could have prevented,” he said.

njnancy · September 2018

mrussel1 said:

mickeyrat said:

mrussel1 said:

mickeyrat said:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/senate-democrats-investigate-a-new-allegation-of-sexual-misconduct-from-the-supreme-court-nominee-brett-kavanaughs-college-years-deborah-ramirez

Avenetti also said he had a new witness that isn't Ramirez. So there may be three.

if the first was true, it wasnt the only. would expect some from earlier too.

If Ramirez is willing to testify, it's over. He won't get confirmed. Jeff Flake won't vote him out of committee.

She's asking for an FBI investigation also. Doesn't mean it's true, but it begs the fact that Kavanaugh does not want an investigation and even refused to answer personal questions in his hearing prep. It's a lifetime appointment, I know that if people were telling lies about me and I had that type of an opportunity, I would welcome the FBI to investigate and disprove all the liars.

njnancy · September 2018

mickeyrat said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/21/us/brett-kavanaugh-high-school.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

By Dan Levin

Sept. 21, 2018

Teenagers across the country are watching how adults are handling the allegations against President Trump’s Supreme Court nominee, and taking notes.

Layla King, a high school sophomore in St. Louis, Mo., was asked by her mother this week what she thinks about Brett M. Kavanaugh: If he was guilty at 17 of sexually assaulting a girl at a party decades ago, should he still be held accountable?

“He should,” said Ms. King, who is 15, “because you’re definitely supposed to know right from wrong by my age.”

Defenders of Mr. Kavanaugh have argued that events dating from so long ago are irrelevant and should have no impact on his confirmation. Mr. Kavanaugh, who is 53, has also denied the allegations. But teenagers across the country said in interviews that they were disturbed to see so many adults dismissing the accusations against Mr. Kavanaugh by Christine Blasey Ford. Much of the story felt familiar to them.

They recognized the scenario outlined in Dr. Blasey’s allegation — a drunk teenage boy taking advantage of a girl at a house party. And in the backlash against Dr. Blasey, a research psychologist in California, the teens saw the way girls are often criticized for calling out mistreatment.

On Thursday, President Trump questioned Dr. Blasey’s credibility, saying in a tweet that if the alleged attack “was as bad as she says,” charges would have been filed. Earlier in the week, Senator Orrin Hatch of Utah suggested Dr. Blasey was “mistaken” in her recollections. Right-wing news outlets have published rumors claiming she is mentally unbalanced or politically motivated.

Maycee Wieczorek, a 17-year-old in Rapid City, S.D., said it felt odd as a student to hear grown-ups dismissing the significance of Mr. Kavanaugh’s character in high school.

“For me and my friends his past is our now,” she said.

And she worried that if the Senate does not take Dr. Blasey’s allegations seriously, it will reaffirm the idea that “boys will be boys,” and teach a dangerous lesson to teenagers today.

“Boys will learn that what you do in high school won’t affect your future at all, so go do the damage you need to do now,” she said.

Ms. Wieczorek said she sees in the controversy a double standard for men and women’s behavior that is already well entrenched in high school.

“A boy is figuring out how to be a man, but girls are told, ‘You better shape up in order to be respected,’” she said. That much was clear at her school, she said, in the detentions frequently handed out to girls for dress code violations — a skirt judged as too short, spaghetti straps, a glimpse of bare midriff, anything teachers deem too “distracting.”

Boys, she said, are not subject to such dress-related infractions. “It’s telling girls you exist as an object for someone else’s attention, rather than you’re here to learn and that your education is important,” she said.

On Tuesday, Emma Thatcher, a high school student in Florida, tweeted: “I would just like to say that the emergence of this whole ‘teenage boys should get a pass because they’re not mature enough to understand consent’ narrative is probably one of the most unsettling things I have ever witnessed.”

Despite the rise of #MeToo, girls said they still felt objectified by their male classmates. A recent nationwide survey by PerryUndem, a research and polling firm, found that about three-quarters of girls 14 to 19 said they felt judged as a sexual object or unsafe as a girl. And compared to boys, they were more likely to say they felt pressure to put others’ feelings before their own.

Amy Zhou, a 17-year-old high school senior in Scottsdale, A.Z., said that during a national teen leadership summit she attended this summer, some of the boys were caught ranking online photos of the female participants by attractiveness. Even after conference officials addressed the incident, only one boy apologized, she said.

“We need to send a message that people should respect men and women,” she said. “Kavanaugh’s going to be upholding the supreme law of the land, so obviously he’s supposed to embody that principle.”

Sexual harassment remains part of the culture at parties, said Brennan Leach, 17, a senior who lives in Wayne, Pa. “Often times girls just come to terms with that experience as a normal part of high school life,” she said.

Ms. Leach said she was frustrated by the doubt cast on Dr. Blasey’s claims, a reaction other girls in her high school have also encountered.

“When a girl has come to school after a weekend party and says someone made her feel uncomfortable, she’s called a drama queen,” Ms. Leach said. “People would say she’s fabricating stories for attention. The language being used by a lot of Republicans is eerily similar to the way boys sound in high school.”

For some teenage boys, the controversy underscores the importance of treating girls with respect. And it has been sobering to realize that gaining a job as powerful as sitting on the Supreme Court bench could hinge on what may have occurred in high school.

Dan Radka, 17, a high school senior who lives in Clinton, Conn., said he had learned from friends who were girls how important it is to obtain consent in sexual situations. His teachers have also stressed using caution on social media, where youthful posts can live forever.

But Mr. Radka said the controversy in Washington has made him think even more deeply about making the right choices now and in college, knowing they may well impact his future.

“I don’t want to do something dumb that I could have prevented,” he said.

Out of the mouths of babes.....

CM189191 · September 2018

Goddammitsomuch
I've seen this script before.
Nominate someone totally inept (Miers), who gets rejected. And we end up with the dillhole Alito., Who didn't look 'as bad' by comparison.
tRUmp is gonna stick is with someone even worse after this is all over.

I still wanna know more about the baseball tickets
And the gambling
I guess he can always go back to coaching girls basketball...

dignin · September 2018

Avenatti allegations look much more serious.

Halifax2TheMax · September 2018

Who here is proud? Anyone?

Halifax2TheMax · September 2018

“Character matters.”

Spiritual_Chaos · September 2018

What kind of a Bret Easton Ellis character is Brett...

josevolution · September 2018

njnancy said:

mrussel1 said:

mickeyrat said:

mrussel1 said:

mickeyrat said:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/senate-democrats-investigate-a-new-allegation-of-sexual-misconduct-from-the-supreme-court-nominee-brett-kavanaughs-college-years-deborah-ramirez

Avenetti also said he had a new witness that isn't Ramirez. So there may be three.

if the first was true, it wasnt the only. would expect some from earlier too.

If Ramirez is willing to testify, it's over. He won't get confirmed. Jeff Flake won't vote him out of committee.

She's asking for an FBI investigation also. Doesn't mean it's true, but it begs the fact that Kavanaugh does not want an investigation and even refused to answer personal questions in his hearing prep. It's a lifetime appointment, I know that if people were telling lies about me and I had that type of an opportunity, I would welcome the FBI to investigate and disprove all the liars.

The Baffoon who nominated him had the same opportunity in regards to stormy and countless other to clear his name but instead he took to Twitter to deny deny never did he ask for an investigation to clear his name..

HughFreakingDillon · September 2018

PJ_Soul said:

How is it too much to ask that a SCOTUS judge not have sexual assault accusations against them that very well could be true?? Especially when the resistance to actually figuring out if they are true is so strong?
My God, the standards that some people apply to people for such positions are at an all time low.
And it shocks me that people would allow Kavanagh "losing his dream job" to be a legitimate concern. This position Trump is trying to put him in is so far beyond that. At the end of the day, a SCOTUS judge nominee needs to be beyond reproach, and we all know that Kavanaugh is not, even if this allegation is false... which I doubt. People seem to overestimating the chances of a woman putting herself in the position this woman is currently in. Please, someone give me any motive on her part that justifies it.

because in the current climate, many people think that every accusation is credible, no matter what. the overwhelming majority are credible, but that's not 100%, especially where politics are concerned.

the resistance is so strong because of the timing of the vote. there's a lot on the line for both parties. potentially decades worth of law making that could tip to one side or the other, and if it makes all the difference in the world if the vote happens before or after the mid-terms. so you can see why people are skeptical about the motivations on BOTH sides.

as far as we know right now, no, there is no motive on her part to go through what she's going through. but what if we found one out later, like piles of cash in an offshore account, but it was too late and this man's life is ruined?

now, after what we are hearing from other women and Avenatti, it's unlikely that this is untrue. But I'd like to know what, in your opinion, makes one sexual assault allegation credible and one not credible? is it motive for coming forward alone?

Spiritual_Chaos · September 2018

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

How is it too much to ask that a SCOTUS judge not have sexual assault accusations against them that very well could be true?? Especially when the resistance to actually figuring out if they are true is so strong?
My God, the standards that some people apply to people for such positions are at an all time low.
And it shocks me that people would allow Kavanagh "losing his dream job" to be a legitimate concern. This position Trump is trying to put him in is so far beyond that. At the end of the day, a SCOTUS judge nominee needs to be beyond reproach, and we all know that Kavanaugh is not, even if this allegation is false... which I doubt. People seem to overestimating the chances of a woman putting herself in the position this woman is currently in. Please, someone give me any motive on her part that justifies it.

because in the current climate, many people think that every accusation is credible, no matter what. the overwhelming majority are credible, but that's not 100%, especially where politics are concerned.

the resistance is so strong because of the timing of the vote. there's a lot on the line for both parties. potentially decades worth of law making that could tip to one side or the other, and if it makes all the difference in the world if the vote happens before or after the mid-terms. so you can see why people are skeptical about the motivations on BOTH sides.

as far as we know right now, no, there is no motive on her part to go through what she's going through. but what if we found one out later, like piles of cash in an offshore account, but it was too late and this man's life is ruined?

now, after what we are hearing from other women and Avenatti, it's unlikely that this is untrue. But I'd like to know what, in your opinion, makes one sexual assault allegation credible and one not credible? is it motive for coming forward alone?

Pushing someone through just to push someone through shouldn't be a factor though.

Democrats or Republicans politics shouldn't be a factor either - the accusation is the accusation. The judge not being a sexual assaulter should be enough to warrant a pause to investigate - whether democrats pushing the information out is moot. If he was not in risk of being a sexual assaulter - which a judge shouldn't be then there would be nothing to push.

Even if I report my friend stealing a Benaroya vinyl just because I'm angry at him, doesn't mean the police should not act on it.

And this was not some woman who out of nowhere just threw out an accusation. It is clearly credible enough to look into. And that should take president over "LETS GET THIS FUCKER THROUGH ASAP!"

HughFreakingDillon · September 2018

Spiritual_Chaos said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

How is it too much to ask that a SCOTUS judge not have sexual assault accusations against them that very well could be true?? Especially when the resistance to actually figuring out if they are true is so strong?
My God, the standards that some people apply to people for such positions are at an all time low.
And it shocks me that people would allow Kavanagh "losing his dream job" to be a legitimate concern. This position Trump is trying to put him in is so far beyond that. At the end of the day, a SCOTUS judge nominee needs to be beyond reproach, and we all know that Kavanaugh is not, even if this allegation is false... which I doubt. People seem to overestimating the chances of a woman putting herself in the position this woman is currently in. Please, someone give me any motive on her part that justifies it.

because in the current climate, many people think that every accusation is credible, no matter what. the overwhelming majority are credible, but that's not 100%, especially where politics are concerned.

the resistance is so strong because of the timing of the vote. there's a lot on the line for both parties. potentially decades worth of law making that could tip to one side or the other, and if it makes all the difference in the world if the vote happens before or after the mid-terms. so you can see why people are skeptical about the motivations on BOTH sides.

as far as we know right now, no, there is no motive on her part to go through what she's going through. but what if we found one out later, like piles of cash in an offshore account, but it was too late and this man's life is ruined?

now, after what we are hearing from other women and Avenatti, it's unlikely that this is untrue. But I'd like to know what, in your opinion, makes one sexual assault allegation credible and one not credible? is it motive for coming forward alone?

Pushing someone through just to push someone through shouldn't be a factor though.

Democrats or Republicans politics shouldn't be a factor either - the accusation is the accusation. The judge not being a sexual assaulter should be enough to warrant a pause to investigate - whether democrats pushing the information out is moot. If he was not in risk of being a sexual assaulter - which a judge shouldn't be then there would be nothing to push.

Even if I report my friend stealing a Benaroya vinyl just because I'm angry at him, doesn't mean the police should not act on it.

And this was not some woman who out of nowhere just threw out an accusation. It is clearly credible enough to look into. And that should take president over "LETS GET THIS FUCKER THROUGH ASAP!"

ok, I'll ask again: what makes this accusation more credible than another? I'm not saying it's not, I'm wondering what makes one accusation, with little to no information, "credible". is an accusation credible for no other reason than it is an accusation?

he's probably guilty. PROBABLY.

politics shouldn't be a factor, but it is, obviously. democrats can put themselves on a pedestal all they want claiming they "just want the facts" when in reality a lot of them are just frothing at the mouth that they might flip the house in the mid-terms making it possible to block any potential trump nominee. especially this one. would they be grandstanding as much as they are if trump had nominated a moderate?

njnancy · September 2018

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

How is it too much to ask that a SCOTUS judge not have sexual assault accusations against them that very well could be true?? Especially when the resistance to actually figuring out if they are true is so strong?
My God, the standards that some people apply to people for such positions are at an all time low.
And it shocks me that people would allow Kavanagh "losing his dream job" to be a legitimate concern. This position Trump is trying to put him in is so far beyond that. At the end of the day, a SCOTUS judge nominee needs to be beyond reproach, and we all know that Kavanaugh is not, even if this allegation is false... which I doubt. People seem to overestimating the chances of a woman putting herself in the position this woman is currently in. Please, someone give me any motive on her part that justifies it.

because in the current climate, many people think that every accusation is credible, no matter what. the overwhelming majority are credible, but that's not 100%, especially where politics are concerned.

the resistance is so strong because of the timing of the vote. there's a lot on the line for both parties. potentially decades worth of law making that could tip to one side or the other, and if it makes all the difference in the world if the vote happens before or after the mid-terms. so you can see why people are skeptical about the motivations on BOTH sides.

as far as we know right now, no, there is no motive on her part to go through what she's going through. but what if we found one out later, like piles of cash in an offshore account, but it was too late and this man's life is ruined?

now, after what we are hearing from other women and Avenatti, it's unlikely that this is untrue. But I'd like to know what, in your opinion, makes one sexual assault allegation credible and one not credible? is it motive for coming forward alone?

The amount of mud that you are going to be drug through after coming forward in itself makes it worth seriously considering. A very low number of accusations are not credible, but it happens.Far, far more incidents are never made known. Asking for the FBI to investigate knowing that if you are lying you will be vilified (further) and be subject to incarceration gives the accusation weight. I also include volunteering her therapist's notes from 2012, telling her husband in 2002, and upon seeing that he was nominated she began to become fearful, according to her husband, and said she would have to leave the country.

Spiritual_Chaos · September 2018

HughFreakingDillon said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

How is it too much to ask that a SCOTUS judge not have sexual assault accusations against them that very well could be true?? Especially when the resistance to actually figuring out if they are true is so strong?
My God, the standards that some people apply to people for such positions are at an all time low.
And it shocks me that people would allow Kavanagh "losing his dream job" to be a legitimate concern. This position Trump is trying to put him in is so far beyond that. At the end of the day, a SCOTUS judge nominee needs to be beyond reproach, and we all know that Kavanaugh is not, even if this allegation is false... which I doubt. People seem to overestimating the chances of a woman putting herself in the position this woman is currently in. Please, someone give me any motive on her part that justifies it.

because in the current climate, many people think that every accusation is credible, no matter what. the overwhelming majority are credible, but that's not 100%, especially where politics are concerned.

the resistance is so strong because of the timing of the vote. there's a lot on the line for both parties. potentially decades worth of law making that could tip to one side or the other, and if it makes all the difference in the world if the vote happens before or after the mid-terms. so you can see why people are skeptical about the motivations on BOTH sides.

as far as we know right now, no, there is no motive on her part to go through what she's going through. but what if we found one out later, like piles of cash in an offshore account, but it was too late and this man's life is ruined?

now, after what we are hearing from other women and Avenatti, it's unlikely that this is untrue. But I'd like to know what, in your opinion, makes one sexual assault allegation credible and one not credible? is it motive for coming forward alone?

Pushing someone through just to push someone through shouldn't be a factor though.

Democrats or Republicans politics shouldn't be a factor either - the accusation is the accusation. The judge not being a sexual assaulter should be enough to warrant a pause to investigate - whether democrats pushing the information out is moot. If he was not in risk of being a sexual assaulter - which a judge shouldn't be then there would be nothing to push.

Even if I report my friend stealing a Benaroya vinyl just because I'm angry at him, doesn't mean the police should not act on it.

And this was not some woman who out of nowhere just threw out an accusation. It is clearly credible enough to look into. And that should take president over "LETS GET THIS FUCKER THROUGH ASAP!"

ok, I'll ask again: what makes this accusation more credible than another? I'm not saying it's not, I'm wondering what makes one accusation, with little to no information, "credible". is an accusation credible for no other reason than it is an accusation?

he's probably guilty. PROBABLY.

politics shouldn't be a factor, but it is, obviously. democrats can put themselves on a pedestal all they want claiming they "just want the facts" when in reality a lot of them are just frothing at the mouth that they might flip the house in the mid-terms making it possible to block any potential trump nominee. especially this one. would they be grandstanding as much as they are if trump had nominated a moderate?

1. Corroboration

In 2012, Ford described her account of the alleged attack to a therapist. Notes taken during this therapy session were provided to and reviewed by the Washington Post. Ford apparently did not name Kavanaugh during the 2012 session, however, her recollection of the event six years ago and shared with her therapist tracks with the allegations leveled against Kavanaugh in the letter which set this entire process in motion.

The prosecutors note, “To believe that this is a made-up tale to prevent Kavanaugh’s confirmation, Ford would have had to plant the seeds of this story in 2012. That makes no sense.”

2. The Polygraph

Lie detector tests are famously controversial for their accuracy. But they remain in use by law enforcement to this day as a basic indicator of assessing credibility. And Christine Blasey Ford has passed one such test.

“While not determinative, the fact that Ford passed a polygraph administered by a former FBI agent lends credence to her claims,” the prosecutors write, while also acknowledging that lie detector tests are not admissible in court “because they are not always reliable.” Still, the prosecutors note, “the FBI and other law enforcement agencies frequently use polygraph tests to assess the credibility of witnesses and defendants.”

3. Ford Has No Motive Here

“Ford…by all accounts is not a particularly politically active person,” the argument goes, and therefore her allegations cannot be chalked up to a simple exercise in partisanship. Then the prosecutors note the fallout involved with coming forward to share such accusations. They write, “Ford knew that she would be personally attacked in front of her children, colleagues, students and friends. There is no reasonable explanation for why she would subject herself to such humiliation [except that] she felt she had a duty as a citizen…”

This more or less tracks with the timeline of events. Recall: Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) kept the original letter secret from her own colleagues in the Senate–including her fellow Democrats. The letter only became public knowledge after its existence was reported on by The Intercept. The former prosecutors’ argument here essentially mirrors Ford’s initial hesitancy about coming forward. In comments to the Post, she said, “Why suffer through the annihilation if it’s not going to matter?”

4. The Delay in Going Public Is Meaningless

Dismissing the idea that Ford’s aforementioned hesitancy about coming forward is indicative of any lapse in credibility, the authors note, “As prosecutors, we have learned that victims of sexual assault do not always come forward immediately — and often never do — because they are shamed by society, fear not being believed…or just want to move on with their lives.”

The former prosecutors also note that delays in reporting crimes don’t have any bearing on their truth or falsity and then shift to a brief discussion about the various pressures of coming forward during various times and in various environments. They write, “[I]t would have been even more daunting for a 15-year-old girl in the 1980s [to come forward].”

5, Creating a Witness for the Defense

The former prosecutors’ final argument against dismissing Ford’s allegations has to do with Brett Kavanaugh’s longtime friend Mark Judge, a conservative author and commentator. Ford claims Judge was present at the party and in the room when Kavanaugh allegedly tried to rape her. So far, Judge has refused to testify and said he has no recollection of the alleged attack in question–not exactly a denial of the allegations.

But, the authors ask, “Why would she create a defense witness…[and] place at the scene an individual who could, because of loyalties to his friend, contradict her account if she were making this up?”

I mean - SHE wanted FBI to look into it, political bias being removed. Bretty-boy doesn't.

HughFreakingDillon · September 2018

njnancy said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

How is it too much to ask that a SCOTUS judge not have sexual assault accusations against them that very well could be true?? Especially when the resistance to actually figuring out if they are true is so strong?
My God, the standards that some people apply to people for such positions are at an all time low.
And it shocks me that people would allow Kavanagh "losing his dream job" to be a legitimate concern. This position Trump is trying to put him in is so far beyond that. At the end of the day, a SCOTUS judge nominee needs to be beyond reproach, and we all know that Kavanaugh is not, even if this allegation is false... which I doubt. People seem to overestimating the chances of a woman putting herself in the position this woman is currently in. Please, someone give me any motive on her part that justifies it.

because in the current climate, many people think that every accusation is credible, no matter what. the overwhelming majority are credible, but that's not 100%, especially where politics are concerned.

the resistance is so strong because of the timing of the vote. there's a lot on the line for both parties. potentially decades worth of law making that could tip to one side or the other, and if it makes all the difference in the world if the vote happens before or after the mid-terms. so you can see why people are skeptical about the motivations on BOTH sides.

as far as we know right now, no, there is no motive on her part to go through what she's going through. but what if we found one out later, like piles of cash in an offshore account, but it was too late and this man's life is ruined?

now, after what we are hearing from other women and Avenatti, it's unlikely that this is untrue. But I'd like to know what, in your opinion, makes one sexual assault allegation credible and one not credible? is it motive for coming forward alone?

The amount of mud that you are going to be drug through after coming forward in itself makes it worth seriously considering. A very low number of accusations are not credible, but it happens.Far, far more incidents are never made known. Asking for the FBI to investigate knowing that if you are lying you will be vilified (further) and be subject to incarceration gives the accusation weight. I also include volunteering her therapist's notes from 2012, telling her husband in 2002, and upon seeing that he was nominated she began to become fearful, according to her husband, and said she would have to leave the country.

yes, true. I actually forgot about the therapist notes.

I think kavanugh's "calendar offerings" is hilarious. first, it proves absolutely zero, and second, all these people thinking it's unbelievable that he kept his old calendars with parties written on it, I actually have the same damn thing. For most of the 90's, my wall calendars had everything written on them, parties, occasions, etc. after that it was day planners with all the same info. And I still have them all in a briefcase. LOL

Spiritual_Chaos · September 2018

And, -- didn't the republicans know about other accusations LAST WEEK but still tried to put in on fast-track.

What does that tell you...

cincybearcat · September 2018

njnancy said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

How is it too much to ask that a SCOTUS judge not have sexual assault accusations against them that very well could be true?? Especially when the resistance to actually figuring out if they are true is so strong?
My God, the standards that some people apply to people for such positions are at an all time low.
And it shocks me that people would allow Kavanagh "losing his dream job" to be a legitimate concern. This position Trump is trying to put him in is so far beyond that. At the end of the day, a SCOTUS judge nominee needs to be beyond reproach, and we all know that Kavanaugh is not, even if this allegation is false... which I doubt. People seem to overestimating the chances of a woman putting herself in the position this woman is currently in. Please, someone give me any motive on her part that justifies it.

because in the current climate, many people think that every accusation is credible, no matter what. the overwhelming majority are credible, but that's not 100%, especially where politics are concerned.

the resistance is so strong because of the timing of the vote. there's a lot on the line for both parties. potentially decades worth of law making that could tip to one side or the other, and if it makes all the difference in the world if the vote happens before or after the mid-terms. so you can see why people are skeptical about the motivations on BOTH sides.

as far as we know right now, no, there is no motive on her part to go through what she's going through. but what if we found one out later, like piles of cash in an offshore account, but it was too late and this man's life is ruined?

now, after what we are hearing from other women and Avenatti, it's unlikely that this is untrue. But I'd like to know what, in your opinion, makes one sexual assault allegation credible and one not credible? is it motive for coming forward alone?

The amount of mud that you are going to be drug through after coming forward in itself makes it worth seriously considering. A very low number of accusations are not credible, but it happens.Far, far more incidents are never made known. Asking for the FBI to investigate knowing that if you are lying you will be vilified (further) and be subject to incarceration gives the accusation weight. I also include volunteering her therapist's notes from 2012, telling her husband in 2002, and upon seeing that he was nominated she began to become fearful, according to her husband, and said she would have to leave the country.

All that says to me is this should be investigated. To say someone should be disqualified based on an accusation alone...even if the accusation is very credible is not something I can get behind. I do think that an accusation like this should require an investigation prior to any vote and the Republicans wanting to try to force the vote anyhow are playing partisan politics.

njnancy · September 2018

HughFreakingDillon said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

How is it too much to ask that a SCOTUS judge not have sexual assault accusations against them that very well could be true?? Especially when the resistance to actually figuring out if they are true is so strong?
My God, the standards that some people apply to people for such positions are at an all time low.
And it shocks me that people would allow Kavanagh "losing his dream job" to be a legitimate concern. This position Trump is trying to put him in is so far beyond that. At the end of the day, a SCOTUS judge nominee needs to be beyond reproach, and we all know that Kavanaugh is not, even if this allegation is false... which I doubt. People seem to overestimating the chances of a woman putting herself in the position this woman is currently in. Please, someone give me any motive on her part that justifies it.

because in the current climate, many people think that every accusation is credible, no matter what. the overwhelming majority are credible, but that's not 100%, especially where politics are concerned.

the resistance is so strong because of the timing of the vote. there's a lot on the line for both parties. potentially decades worth of law making that could tip to one side or the other, and if it makes all the difference in the world if the vote happens before or after the mid-terms. so you can see why people are skeptical about the motivations on BOTH sides.

as far as we know right now, no, there is no motive on her part to go through what she's going through. but what if we found one out later, like piles of cash in an offshore account, but it was too late and this man's life is ruined?

now, after what we are hearing from other women and Avenatti, it's unlikely that this is untrue. But I'd like to know what, in your opinion, makes one sexual assault allegation credible and one not credible? is it motive for coming forward alone?

Pushing someone through just to push someone through shouldn't be a factor though.

Democrats or Republicans politics shouldn't be a factor either - the accusation is the accusation. The judge not being a sexual assaulter should be enough to warrant a pause to investigate - whether democrats pushing the information out is moot. If he was not in risk of being a sexual assaulter - which a judge shouldn't be then there would be nothing to push.

Even if I report my friend stealing a Benaroya vinyl just because I'm angry at him, doesn't mean the police should not act on it.

And this was not some woman who out of nowhere just threw out an accusation. It is clearly credible enough to look into. And that should take president over "LETS GET THIS FUCKER THROUGH ASAP!"

ok, I'll ask again: what makes this accusation more credible than another? I'm not saying it's not, I'm wondering what makes one accusation, with little to no information, "credible". is an accusation credible for no other reason than it is an accusation?

he's probably guilty. PROBABLY.

politics shouldn't be a factor, but it is, obviously. democrats can put themselves on a pedestal all they want claiming they "just want the facts" when in reality a lot of them are just frothing at the mouth that they might flip the house in the mid-terms making it possible to block any potential trump nominee. especially this one. would they be grandstanding as much as they are if trump had nominated a moderate?

Frothing at the mouth and ramming this nomination through are some sayings that do not sound right at this time. I do not think that there is a conga line of democrats saying 'we got us a victim, we got us a victim'. Democrats do have the right to feel that the Republicans think they own the court. They held Scalia's seat open for over a year, Kennedy resigned 2 months ago. Let's put good people on the court regardless of their politics. Rushing and cutting corners is not the way that a lifetime appointment should be conducted. It makes the whole process suspect.

njnancy · September 2018

cincybearcat said:

njnancy said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

How is it too much to ask that a SCOTUS judge not have sexual assault accusations against them that very well could be true?? Especially when the resistance to actually figuring out if they are true is so strong?
My God, the standards that some people apply to people for such positions are at an all time low.
And it shocks me that people would allow Kavanagh "losing his dream job" to be a legitimate concern. This position Trump is trying to put him in is so far beyond that. At the end of the day, a SCOTUS judge nominee needs to be beyond reproach, and we all know that Kavanaugh is not, even if this allegation is false... which I doubt. People seem to overestimating the chances of a woman putting herself in the position this woman is currently in. Please, someone give me any motive on her part that justifies it.

because in the current climate, many people think that every accusation is credible, no matter what. the overwhelming majority are credible, but that's not 100%, especially where politics are concerned.

the resistance is so strong because of the timing of the vote. there's a lot on the line for both parties. potentially decades worth of law making that could tip to one side or the other, and if it makes all the difference in the world if the vote happens before or after the mid-terms. so you can see why people are skeptical about the motivations on BOTH sides.

as far as we know right now, no, there is no motive on her part to go through what she's going through. but what if we found one out later, like piles of cash in an offshore account, but it was too late and this man's life is ruined?

now, after what we are hearing from other women and Avenatti, it's unlikely that this is untrue. But I'd like to know what, in your opinion, makes one sexual assault allegation credible and one not credible? is it motive for coming forward alone?

The amount of mud that you are going to be drug through after coming forward in itself makes it worth seriously considering. A very low number of accusations are not credible, but it happens.Far, far more incidents are never made known. Asking for the FBI to investigate knowing that if you are lying you will be vilified (further) and be subject to incarceration gives the accusation weight. I also include volunteering her therapist's notes from 2012, telling her husband in 2002, and upon seeing that he was nominated she began to become fearful, according to her husband, and said she would have to leave the country.

All that says to me is this should be investigated. To say someone should be disqualified based on an accusation alone...even if the accusation is very credible is not something I can get behind. I do think that an accusation like this should require an investigation prior to any vote and the Republicans wanting to try to force the vote anyhow are playing partisan politics.

Agreed - the White House should have had the FBI on this already. If the accusations are untrue then they should be proven so just as quickly as the alternate.

Spiritual_Chaos · September 2018

cincybearcat said:

njnancy said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

How is it too much to ask that a SCOTUS judge not have sexual assault accusations against them that very well could be true?? Especially when the resistance to actually figuring out if they are true is so strong?
My God, the standards that some people apply to people for such positions are at an all time low.
And it shocks me that people would allow Kavanagh "losing his dream job" to be a legitimate concern. This position Trump is trying to put him in is so far beyond that. At the end of the day, a SCOTUS judge nominee needs to be beyond reproach, and we all know that Kavanaugh is not, even if this allegation is false... which I doubt. People seem to overestimating the chances of a woman putting herself in the position this woman is currently in. Please, someone give me any motive on her part that justifies it.

because in the current climate, many people think that every accusation is credible, no matter what. the overwhelming majority are credible, but that's not 100%, especially where politics are concerned.

the resistance is so strong because of the timing of the vote. there's a lot on the line for both parties. potentially decades worth of law making that could tip to one side or the other, and if it makes all the difference in the world if the vote happens before or after the mid-terms. so you can see why people are skeptical about the motivations on BOTH sides.

as far as we know right now, no, there is no motive on her part to go through what she's going through. but what if we found one out later, like piles of cash in an offshore account, but it was too late and this man's life is ruined?

now, after what we are hearing from other women and Avenatti, it's unlikely that this is untrue. But I'd like to know what, in your opinion, makes one sexual assault allegation credible and one not credible? is it motive for coming forward alone?

The amount of mud that you are going to be drug through after coming forward in itself makes it worth seriously considering. A very low number of accusations are not credible, but it happens.Far, far more incidents are never made known. Asking for the FBI to investigate knowing that if you are lying you will be vilified (further) and be subject to incarceration gives the accusation weight. I also include volunteering her therapist's notes from 2012, telling her husband in 2002, and upon seeing that he was nominated she began to become fearful, according to her husband, and said she would have to leave the country.

All that says to me is this should be investigated. To say someone should be disqualified based on an accusation alone...even if the accusation is very credible is not something I can get behind. I do think that an accusation like this should require an investigation prior to any vote and the Republicans wanting to try to force the vote anyhow are playing partisan politics.

Exactly.

The right thing is to take the "loss" and pause and investigate. This is just too transparent and not holding their feet to the fire on this - disgusting - behavior so close that is really hurts them is shocking and apalling.

Kavanaugh

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