America's Gun Violence
Comments
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oftenreading said:tempo_n_groove said:Why hasn't anyone been reporting on this?
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/20/us/great-mills-high-school-shooting/index.html
I'm sure I know why. No good buzz words like AR-15 or assault rifle are in this.
It's still gun violence though. How the 17yo got the gun is a real problem.0 -
HughFreakingDillon said:PJ_Soul said:mace1229 said:PJ_Soul said:Thirty Bills Unpaid said:PJ_Soul said:oftenreading said:PJ_Soul said:I have no idea, but to be clear, I'm not saying it's impossible for a private school to house a monster, lol. Of course any school can have a psychopath as a student, or an extremely troubled or abused student, or a mentally ill student. I'm just saying that the chances of a school shooter coming out of a private school (and thus shooting up a private school) are much, much smaller for the reasons I mentioned. Far fewer kids slip through the cracks at private schools.
Not true.
A kid can be expelled from a school, but it takes a lot of 'incidents' before that occurs.
There's a thing called 'progressive discipline' which allows for a lot of really poor behaviour. And I mean really poor behaviour. Administrators cannot exercise judgement- they've been rendered useless.
With that said, a major episode can expedite the process somewhat... but a 'major episode' is usually something that damages somebody.
I would agree more with 30.
It is so much easier to expel a student at a private school. It is incredibly difficult at a public school today.
A private school with a high enrollment and wait list can and do expel kids even for grades. My wife went to a private school (she hated it) it was an extremely strict Christian school. They had a demerit system, and at a certain point you got expelled. You got demerits for wearing jeans, she actually knows several people who were expelled their senior year for something that stupid. You got demerits for being tardy to class. She told me one day her friend built up enough small demerits from things like that, and one day showed up in jeans and got expelled. I think drugs and alcohol was an immediate expulsion. Now kids can deal and do drugs at public school and get a 3-day suspension for it.
Unfortunately public schools are forced to keep problem kids all the time. It actually is a major problem, how difficult it is to expel a student and how tolerant public schools have become of behavior, even violent behavior.
Private schools who struggle for enrollment are probably a lot more tolerant, but there are many that are not.
FWIW, I come from a family of public educators/school administrators, so I'm pretty aware of how it works. As for silly private school demerits... what dumb kid would wear jeans to a school where everyone is wearing a uniform? I've known tons of people who went to private school or kids who go now, and that shit just isn't happening, and there are very few expulsions happening at all because the kids are indeed better controlled and behaved because of all the reasons I already said.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
tbergs said:PJ_Soul said:tbergs said:PJ_Soul said:Home schooled kids are usually weird, don't do it, lol. No matter what you try to do to counteract it, that they are separated that much from their peers and not sharing so many experiences daily with them can't be good for them socially. Not to mention the complete lack of variety in their education that home schooling necessitates. (obviously do what you think is best... I'm just saying that I think home schooling pretty much sucks for the kids generally... However, there some obvious exceptions to every rule).
Besides families that do it for strictly religious reasons, which I think is limiting the scope of the education, a homeschool child isn't confined to the systematic approach of the public school system. I do agree that private schools are a great option if you can afford it because they usually approach education as it relates to the whole child and incorporate movement into the day beyond just recess.
There are a lot of positive benefits to homeschooling that seem to get overlooked while the stigmas and biases become the standard label for no reason. Unless you have some other research or source that indicates this trend of weird kids being homeschooled it would seem appropriate to stop spreading that inaccurate opinion.
https://www.nheri.org/research-facts-on-homeschooling/
http://www.businessinsider.com/structured-homeschool-canada-2011-9
Just an opinion man. I don't think homeschooling is a good choice for kids for the reasons I already said, and yes, I know how it works. And home schooling for religious reasons is even worse as far as this hard core atheist is concerned, lol. But I'm not stopping parents from doing it anyway, so my opinion is pretty irrelevant. I would think your comment would be reasonable if I had posted some incorrect facts, which I didn't, but I don't think it's reasonable at all for you to suggest I "stop spreading (my) inaccurate opinion." It's my opinion, so it is 100% accurate, and I formed my opinion based on plenty of information and my own observations. There is nothing inaccurate about that. You simply don't agree with me.
I just find it ironic that the last few pages of this thread has focused on the unequal playing field kids have based on access to private schooling with better resources for counseling/conflict resolution. While public schools don't have the same options with bullying and how that leads to violent outbursts. Yet you are making a completely biased statement without any factual reason. It's no different than me stating that I think black people are usually gang members or pearl jam fans are usually crazy (maybe some truth there based on what I read on here lol).
I don't expect you to agree with me. I just think making negative overarching generalizations about a certain group of people is something we should all be striving not to do. People get pissed when our racist asshole in chief states it about Mexicans and Muslims based on a small sample of issues so why is your opinion ok in this case? There are a lot of terrible atrocities in our history that began as mere opinions and were fabricated into something bigger.
Alright, rant over.
By the way, I remembered another huge reason I think homeschooling is weird usually (and keep in mind that I did say at the beginning that there are exceptions to everything): I don't think it's particularly healthy for any child to spend that much time with their parents over the age of 6, and to not have several other non-related adult authority figures more closely involved in their development.
Whoops, just read that the Austin bomber was homeschooled, and just two days ago I read that Adam Lanza was too!
(that was a joke... kinda, lol).
Post edited by PJ_Soul onWith all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
JimmyV said:Thirty Bills Unpaid said:JimmyV said:mcgruff10 said:mace1229 said:PJ_Soul said:tbergs said:tbergs said:PJ_Soul said:Out of curiosity, I checked on that. No, Adam Lanza didn't attend private school. He attended public school (including Sandy Hook) for years, and then a public Intermediate school, and then home schooling, which seems to be when he got really weird. Doesn't say much for home schooling! Although in all fairness to his mother, perhaps she chose to home-school him because he was acting all fucked up, and not the other way around.
(I do admit that I think home schooling is fucking weird unless absolutely necessary)
That doesn't mean all are, and every public school kid isn't. But that home-schooled kids are more likely/higher percentage of being weird.
It is probably a combination of the families that are more likely to home-school (A lot of ultra-conservative Christian homes home school, that's why there are so many religious homeschool programs), combined with the lack of peer interaction.
I have a lot of nieces and nephews who are home-schooled. My brother home-schools and my wife's brother and sister both do. Some of them have very normal kids and do a great job exposing them to strong academics and other peers, and some of them do not. It is very clear when interacting with them which ones see the same 4 people every day and which ones are exposed to more interaction.
We used to joke in college and point out who was home-schooled. We were surprisingly accurate because it was pretty easy to determine who was experiencing a school setting like that and interacting with a large group for the first time and who was not.Austin bomber Mark Anthony Conditt was part of Christian survivalist group that discussed 'dangerous' chemicals
The Austin bomber was involved in a teenage Christian “survivalist” group that discussed weapons and dangerous chemicals, according to a childhood friend.
Mark Anthony Conditt reportedly took part in a conservative outdoors club called Righteous Invasion of Truth (RIOT), in which home-schooled young people studied the Bible and were taught gun skills.
Police in Texas are hunting for clues about what drove the 23-year-old to embark on a bombing spree which killed two people and terrorised the state capital for weeks.
"He and and his family are as normal as I’ve seen anybody," Jeff Reeb, a neighbour of the Conditt family in Pflugerville for approximately 17 years, told The Independent.
Another neighbour, Lee Roca, said he was shocked when he saw Conditt identified as the bombing suspect on the news. Mr Roca said he recognised Conditt from karaoke nights at a local bar called Red Rooster, and he may well have shaken his hand.
Officers found a 25-minute mobile phone recording that they said amounted to a “confession” after Conditt blew himself up as authorities closed in on him on Wednesday.
"Mark Anthony Conditt reportedly took part in a conservative outdoors club called Righteous Invasion of Truth (RIOT), in which home-schooled young people studied the Bible and were taught gun skills."
There are varying degrees of religious brainwashing. This is the extreme variety.
It's hard to think for yourself when you've been indoctrinated to think a certain way from a time when your brain was under construction.
So therefore teaching the bible plus gun play and hatred of anyone not white, straight, and christian is a surefire way to get into heaven.
Got it0 -
Soul...
It is about what they are required to do by law and district policy. This is the entire point: public schools adhere to different codes than private schools who can mandate higher academic and behavioural rigour.
Administrators haven't failed in these cases- they are bound by public school policies which are weighted heavily in support of poorly behaving kids. While such policies support the 'offender' and ensure they stay in school and receive an education... the cost is significant: school tone and culture suffer, bullying occurs, teachers become exasperated, etc."My brain's a good brain!"0 -
tempo_n_groove said:oftenreading said:tempo_n_groove said:Why hasn't anyone been reporting on this?
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/20/us/great-mills-high-school-shooting/index.html
I'm sure I know why. No good buzz words like AR-15 or assault rifle are in this.
It's still gun violence though. How the 17yo got the gun is a real problem.my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0 -
PJ_Soul said:HughFreakingDillon said:PJ_Soul said:mace1229 said:PJ_Soul said:Thirty Bills Unpaid said:PJ_Soul said:oftenreading said:PJ_Soul said:I have no idea, but to be clear, I'm not saying it's impossible for a private school to house a monster, lol. Of course any school can have a psychopath as a student, or an extremely troubled or abused student, or a mentally ill student. I'm just saying that the chances of a school shooter coming out of a private school (and thus shooting up a private school) are much, much smaller for the reasons I mentioned. Far fewer kids slip through the cracks at private schools.
Not true.
A kid can be expelled from a school, but it takes a lot of 'incidents' before that occurs.
There's a thing called 'progressive discipline' which allows for a lot of really poor behaviour. And I mean really poor behaviour. Administrators cannot exercise judgement- they've been rendered useless.
With that said, a major episode can expedite the process somewhat... but a 'major episode' is usually something that damages somebody.
I would agree more with 30.
It is so much easier to expel a student at a private school. It is incredibly difficult at a public school today.
A private school with a high enrollment and wait list can and do expel kids even for grades. My wife went to a private school (she hated it) it was an extremely strict Christian school. They had a demerit system, and at a certain point you got expelled. You got demerits for wearing jeans, she actually knows several people who were expelled their senior year for something that stupid. You got demerits for being tardy to class. She told me one day her friend built up enough small demerits from things like that, and one day showed up in jeans and got expelled. I think drugs and alcohol was an immediate expulsion. Now kids can deal and do drugs at public school and get a 3-day suspension for it.
Unfortunately public schools are forced to keep problem kids all the time. It actually is a major problem, how difficult it is to expel a student and how tolerant public schools have become of behavior, even violent behavior.
Private schools who struggle for enrollment are probably a lot more tolerant, but there are many that are not.
FWIW, I come from a family of public educators/school administrators, so I'm pretty aware of how it works. As for silly private school demerits... what dumb kid would wear jeans to a school where everyone is wearing a uniform? I've known tons of people who went to private school or kids who go now, and that shit just isn't happening, and there are very few expulsions happening at all because the kids are indeed better controlled and behaved because of all the reasons I already said.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
oftenreading said:tempo_n_groove said:oftenreading said:tempo_n_groove said:Why hasn't anyone been reporting on this?
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/20/us/great-mills-high-school-shooting/index.html
I'm sure I know why. No good buzz words like AR-15 or assault rifle are in this.
It's still gun violence though. How the 17yo got the gun is a real problem.
Correct.
This incident was too boring compared to the other sensational ones."My brain's a good brain!"0 -
Thirty Bills Unpaid said:Soul...
It is about what they are required to do by law and district policy. This is the entire point: public schools adhere to different codes than private schools who can mandate higher academic and behavioural rigour.
Administrators haven't failed in these cases- they are bound by public school policies which are weighted heavily in support of poorly behaving kids. While such policies support the 'offender' and ensure they stay in school and receive an education... the cost is significant: school tone and culture suffer, bullying occurs, teachers become exasperated, etc.
But I TOTALLY disagree that Administrators haven't failed in these cases. That's crazy-talk. Some administrators are great... others are absolute fucking crap. The same can be said for those running districts.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
Thirty Bills Unpaid said:Soul...
It is about what they are required to do by law and district policy. This is the entire point: public schools adhere to different codes than private schools who can mandate higher academic and behavioural rigour.
Administrators haven't failed in these cases- they are bound by public school policies which are weighted heavily in support of poorly behaving kids. While such policies support the 'offender' and ensure they stay in school and receive an education... the cost is significant: school tone and culture suffer, bullying occurs, teachers become exasperated, etc.
And much of that policy is determined by a board or super who has never stepped foot in a classroom and really have no clue what is best for a school or what it is like. And push the point of view that expelling and suspending kids is bad and means the teacher/school failed, so it is never approved, when this kid has been getting away with this behavior for 10 years.0 -
HughFreakingDillon said:PJ_Soul said:HughFreakingDillon said:PJ_Soul said:mace1229 said:PJ_Soul said:Thirty Bills Unpaid said:PJ_Soul said:oftenreading said:PJ_Soul said:I have no idea, but to be clear, I'm not saying it's impossible for a private school to house a monster, lol. Of course any school can have a psychopath as a student, or an extremely troubled or abused student, or a mentally ill student. I'm just saying that the chances of a school shooter coming out of a private school (and thus shooting up a private school) are much, much smaller for the reasons I mentioned. Far fewer kids slip through the cracks at private schools.
Not true.
A kid can be expelled from a school, but it takes a lot of 'incidents' before that occurs.
There's a thing called 'progressive discipline' which allows for a lot of really poor behaviour. And I mean really poor behaviour. Administrators cannot exercise judgement- they've been rendered useless.
With that said, a major episode can expedite the process somewhat... but a 'major episode' is usually something that damages somebody.
I would agree more with 30.
It is so much easier to expel a student at a private school. It is incredibly difficult at a public school today.
A private school with a high enrollment and wait list can and do expel kids even for grades. My wife went to a private school (she hated it) it was an extremely strict Christian school. They had a demerit system, and at a certain point you got expelled. You got demerits for wearing jeans, she actually knows several people who were expelled their senior year for something that stupid. You got demerits for being tardy to class. She told me one day her friend built up enough small demerits from things like that, and one day showed up in jeans and got expelled. I think drugs and alcohol was an immediate expulsion. Now kids can deal and do drugs at public school and get a 3-day suspension for it.
Unfortunately public schools are forced to keep problem kids all the time. It actually is a major problem, how difficult it is to expel a student and how tolerant public schools have become of behavior, even violent behavior.
Private schools who struggle for enrollment are probably a lot more tolerant, but there are many that are not.
FWIW, I come from a family of public educators/school administrators, so I'm pretty aware of how it works. As for silly private school demerits... what dumb kid would wear jeans to a school where everyone is wearing a uniform? I've known tons of people who went to private school or kids who go now, and that shit just isn't happening, and there are very few expulsions happening at all because the kids are indeed better controlled and behaved because of all the reasons I already said.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
ok then. you know better than those in the field, I guess.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0
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mcgruff10 said:mace1229 said:PJ_Soul said:tbergs said:tbergs said:PJ_Soul said:Out of curiosity, I checked on that. No, Adam Lanza didn't attend private school. He attended public school (including Sandy Hook) for years, and then a public Intermediate school, and then home schooling, which seems to be when he got really weird. Doesn't say much for home schooling! Although in all fairness to his mother, perhaps she chose to home-school him because he was acting all fucked up, and not the other way around.
(I do admit that I think home schooling is fucking weird unless absolutely necessary)
That doesn't mean all are, and every public school kid isn't. But that home-schooled kids are more likely/higher percentage of being weird.
It is probably a combination of the families that are more likely to home-school (A lot of ultra-conservative Christian homes home school, that's why there are so many religious homeschool programs), combined with the lack of peer interaction.
I have a lot of nieces and nephews who are home-schooled. My brother home-schools and my wife's brother and sister both do. Some of them have very normal kids and do a great job exposing them to strong academics and other peers, and some of them do not. It is very clear when interacting with them which ones see the same 4 people every day and which ones are exposed to more interaction.
We used to joke in college and point out who was home-schooled. We were surprisingly accurate because it was pretty easy to determine who was experiencing a school setting like that and interacting with a large group for the first time and who was not.Austin bomber Mark Anthony Conditt was part of Christian survivalist group that discussed 'dangerous' chemicals
The Austin bomber was involved in a teenage Christian “survivalist” group that discussed weapons and dangerous chemicals, according to a childhood friend.
Mark Anthony Conditt reportedly took part in a conservative outdoors club called Righteous Invasion of Truth (RIOT), in which home-schooled young people studied the Bible and were taught gun skills.
Police in Texas are hunting for clues about what drove the 23-year-old to embark on a bombing spree which killed two people and terrorised the state capital for weeks.
"He and and his family are as normal as I’ve seen anybody," Jeff Reeb, a neighbour of the Conditt family in Pflugerville for approximately 17 years, told The Independent.
Another neighbour, Lee Roca, said he was shocked when he saw Conditt identified as the bombing suspect on the news. Mr Roca said he recognised Conditt from karaoke nights at a local bar called Red Rooster, and he may well have shaken his hand.
Officers found a 25-minute mobile phone recording that they said amounted to a “confession” after Conditt blew himself up as authorities closed in on him on Wednesday.
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PJ_Soul said:Thirty Bills Unpaid said:Soul...
It is about what they are required to do by law and district policy. This is the entire point: public schools adhere to different codes than private schools who can mandate higher academic and behavioural rigour.
Administrators haven't failed in these cases- they are bound by public school policies which are weighted heavily in support of poorly behaving kids. While such policies support the 'offender' and ensure they stay in school and receive an education... the cost is significant: school tone and culture suffer, bullying occurs, teachers become exasperated, etc.
But I TOTALLY disagree that Administrators haven't failed in these cases. That's crazy-talk. Some administrators are great... others are absolute fucking crap. The same can be said for those running districts.
We're getting closer here.
You won't get an argument from me on the variability of administrators at local or district levels, but I still need you to recognize that even the strongest administrators cannot expel kids when they realize it is the right thing to do like private schools can. Instead, the public school administrator must adhere to the progressive discipline model which removes any professional judgement they might have regarding the individual situation.
Kids can act really poorly and never be in too much trouble. They just need to know what the line is... cross it slightly... and operate there. The 'line' generally allows for a lot of poor behaviour that does not require administrative intervention- defiance, confrontation, academic apathy, and general disrespect among other things."My brain's a good brain!"0 -
Thirty Bills Unpaid said:PJ_Soul said:Thirty Bills Unpaid said:Soul...
It is about what they are required to do by law and district policy. This is the entire point: public schools adhere to different codes than private schools who can mandate higher academic and behavioural rigour.
Administrators haven't failed in these cases- they are bound by public school policies which are weighted heavily in support of poorly behaving kids. While such policies support the 'offender' and ensure they stay in school and receive an education... the cost is significant: school tone and culture suffer, bullying occurs, teachers become exasperated, etc.
But I TOTALLY disagree that Administrators haven't failed in these cases. That's crazy-talk. Some administrators are great... others are absolute fucking crap. The same can be said for those running districts.
We're getting closer here.
You won't get an argument from me on the variability of administrators at local or district levels, but I still need you to recognize that even the strongest administrators cannot expel kids when they realize it is the right thing to do like private schools can. Instead, the public school administrator must adhere to the progressive discipline model which removes any professional judgement they might have regarding the individual situation.
Kids can act really poorly and never be in too much trouble. They just need to know what the line is... cross it slightly... and operate there. The 'line' generally allows for a lot of poor behaviour that does not require administrative intervention- defiance, confrontation, academic apathy, and general disrespect among other things.I never made the claim I think you think I did? My argument was that private schools certainly do have more power in the decision-making. My caveat was only that they don't just expel students willy nilly, like someone kind of suggested, because they have their own, different motivations not to when possible. And I already fully acknowledged that public schools have to adhere to progressive discipline, as they should.
But all in all, I have no clue what we're really debating here anymore, lol!
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
PJ_Soul said:Thirty Bills Unpaid said:PJ_Soul said:Thirty Bills Unpaid said:Soul...
It is about what they are required to do by law and district policy. This is the entire point: public schools adhere to different codes than private schools who can mandate higher academic and behavioural rigour.
Administrators haven't failed in these cases- they are bound by public school policies which are weighted heavily in support of poorly behaving kids. While such policies support the 'offender' and ensure they stay in school and receive an education... the cost is significant: school tone and culture suffer, bullying occurs, teachers become exasperated, etc.
But I TOTALLY disagree that Administrators haven't failed in these cases. That's crazy-talk. Some administrators are great... others are absolute fucking crap. The same can be said for those running districts.
We're getting closer here.
You won't get an argument from me on the variability of administrators at local or district levels, but I still need you to recognize that even the strongest administrators cannot expel kids when they realize it is the right thing to do like private schools can. Instead, the public school administrator must adhere to the progressive discipline model which removes any professional judgement they might have regarding the individual situation.
Kids can act really poorly and never be in too much trouble. They just need to know what the line is... cross it slightly... and operate there. The 'line' generally allows for a lot of poor behaviour that does not require administrative intervention- defiance, confrontation, academic apathy, and general disrespect among other things.I never made the claim I think you think I did? My argument was that private schools certainly do have more power in the decision-making. My caveat was only that they don't just expel students willy nilly, like someone kind of suggested, because they have their own, different motivations not to when possible. And I already fully acknowledged that public schools have to adhere to progressive discipline, as they should.
But all in all, I have no clue what we're really debating here anymore, lol!
All 3 of those should be immediate expulsion. Assault any staff member and you're gone. But that isn't how it works, and kids know it.0 -
mace1229 said:PJ_Soul said:Thirty Bills Unpaid said:PJ_Soul said:Thirty Bills Unpaid said:Soul...
It is about what they are required to do by law and district policy. This is the entire point: public schools adhere to different codes than private schools who can mandate higher academic and behavioural rigour.
Administrators haven't failed in these cases- they are bound by public school policies which are weighted heavily in support of poorly behaving kids. While such policies support the 'offender' and ensure they stay in school and receive an education... the cost is significant: school tone and culture suffer, bullying occurs, teachers become exasperated, etc.
But I TOTALLY disagree that Administrators haven't failed in these cases. That's crazy-talk. Some administrators are great... others are absolute fucking crap. The same can be said for those running districts.
We're getting closer here.
You won't get an argument from me on the variability of administrators at local or district levels, but I still need you to recognize that even the strongest administrators cannot expel kids when they realize it is the right thing to do like private schools can. Instead, the public school administrator must adhere to the progressive discipline model which removes any professional judgement they might have regarding the individual situation.
Kids can act really poorly and never be in too much trouble. They just need to know what the line is... cross it slightly... and operate there. The 'line' generally allows for a lot of poor behaviour that does not require administrative intervention- defiance, confrontation, academic apathy, and general disrespect among other things.I never made the claim I think you think I did? My argument was that private schools certainly do have more power in the decision-making. My caveat was only that they don't just expel students willy nilly, like someone kind of suggested, because they have their own, different motivations not to when possible. And I already fully acknowledged that public schools have to adhere to progressive discipline, as they should.
But all in all, I have no clue what we're really debating here anymore, lol!
All 3 of those should be immediate expulsion. Assault any staff member and you're gone. But that isn't how it works, and kids know it.
It's too bad you guys weren't packing heat like the teachers of the future will be doing in the US. Ain't nobody got time for that!
(I jest while making a point. I'm not deliberately making little of the personal situations you described- both ridiculously unsupported)."My brain's a good brain!"0 -
PJ_Soul said:Thirty Bills Unpaid said:PJ_Soul said:Thirty Bills Unpaid said:Soul...
It is about what they are required to do by law and district policy. This is the entire point: public schools adhere to different codes than private schools who can mandate higher academic and behavioural rigour.
Administrators haven't failed in these cases- they are bound by public school policies which are weighted heavily in support of poorly behaving kids. While such policies support the 'offender' and ensure they stay in school and receive an education... the cost is significant: school tone and culture suffer, bullying occurs, teachers become exasperated, etc.
But I TOTALLY disagree that Administrators haven't failed in these cases. That's crazy-talk. Some administrators are great... others are absolute fucking crap. The same can be said for those running districts.
We're getting closer here.
You won't get an argument from me on the variability of administrators at local or district levels, but I still need you to recognize that even the strongest administrators cannot expel kids when they realize it is the right thing to do like private schools can. Instead, the public school administrator must adhere to the progressive discipline model which removes any professional judgement they might have regarding the individual situation.
Kids can act really poorly and never be in too much trouble. They just need to know what the line is... cross it slightly... and operate there. The 'line' generally allows for a lot of poor behaviour that does not require administrative intervention- defiance, confrontation, academic apathy, and general disrespect among other things.I never made the claim I think you think I did? My argument was that private schools certainly do have more power in the decision-making. My caveat was only that they don't just expel students willy nilly, like someone kind of suggested, because they have their own, different motivations not to when possible. And I already fully acknowledged that public schools have to adhere to progressive discipline, as they should.
But all in all, I have no clue what we're really debating here anymore, lol!
At this point... neither do I.
Cheers!
"My brain's a good brain!"0 -
mace1229 said:PJ_Soul said:Thirty Bills Unpaid said:PJ_Soul said:Thirty Bills Unpaid said:Soul...
It is about what they are required to do by law and district policy. This is the entire point: public schools adhere to different codes than private schools who can mandate higher academic and behavioural rigour.
Administrators haven't failed in these cases- they are bound by public school policies which are weighted heavily in support of poorly behaving kids. While such policies support the 'offender' and ensure they stay in school and receive an education... the cost is significant: school tone and culture suffer, bullying occurs, teachers become exasperated, etc.
But I TOTALLY disagree that Administrators haven't failed in these cases. That's crazy-talk. Some administrators are great... others are absolute fucking crap. The same can be said for those running districts.
We're getting closer here.
You won't get an argument from me on the variability of administrators at local or district levels, but I still need you to recognize that even the strongest administrators cannot expel kids when they realize it is the right thing to do like private schools can. Instead, the public school administrator must adhere to the progressive discipline model which removes any professional judgement they might have regarding the individual situation.
Kids can act really poorly and never be in too much trouble. They just need to know what the line is... cross it slightly... and operate there. The 'line' generally allows for a lot of poor behaviour that does not require administrative intervention- defiance, confrontation, academic apathy, and general disrespect among other things.I never made the claim I think you think I did? My argument was that private schools certainly do have more power in the decision-making. My caveat was only that they don't just expel students willy nilly, like someone kind of suggested, because they have their own, different motivations not to when possible. And I already fully acknowledged that public schools have to adhere to progressive discipline, as they should.
But all in all, I have no clue what we're really debating here anymore, lol!
All 3 of those should be immediate expulsion. Assault any staff member and you're gone. But that isn't how it works, and kids know it.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
PJ_Soul said:tbergs said:PJ_Soul said:tbergs said:PJ_Soul said:Home schooled kids are usually weird, don't do it, lol. No matter what you try to do to counteract it, that they are separated that much from their peers and not sharing so many experiences daily with them can't be good for them socially. Not to mention the complete lack of variety in their education that home schooling necessitates. (obviously do what you think is best... I'm just saying that I think home schooling pretty much sucks for the kids generally... However, there some obvious exceptions to every rule).
Besides families that do it for strictly religious reasons, which I think is limiting the scope of the education, a homeschool child isn't confined to the systematic approach of the public school system. I do agree that private schools are a great option if you can afford it because they usually approach education as it relates to the whole child and incorporate movement into the day beyond just recess.
There are a lot of positive benefits to homeschooling that seem to get overlooked while the stigmas and biases become the standard label for no reason. Unless you have some other research or source that indicates this trend of weird kids being homeschooled it would seem appropriate to stop spreading that inaccurate opinion.
https://www.nheri.org/research-facts-on-homeschooling/
http://www.businessinsider.com/structured-homeschool-canada-2011-9
Just an opinion man. I don't think homeschooling is a good choice for kids for the reasons I already said, and yes, I know how it works. And home schooling for religious reasons is even worse as far as this hard core atheist is concerned, lol. But I'm not stopping parents from doing it anyway, so my opinion is pretty irrelevant. I would think your comment would be reasonable if I had posted some incorrect facts, which I didn't, but I don't think it's reasonable at all for you to suggest I "stop spreading (my) inaccurate opinion." It's my opinion, so it is 100% accurate, and I formed my opinion based on plenty of information and my own observations. There is nothing inaccurate about that. You simply don't agree with me.
I just find it ironic that the last few pages of this thread has focused on the unequal playing field kids have based on access to private schooling with better resources for counseling/conflict resolution. While public schools don't have the same options with bullying and how that leads to violent outbursts. Yet you are making a completely biased statement without any factual reason. It's no different than me stating that I think black people are usually gang members or pearl jam fans are usually crazy (maybe some truth there based on what I read on here lol).
I don't expect you to agree with me. I just think making negative overarching generalizations about a certain group of people is something we should all be striving not to do. People get pissed when our racist asshole in chief states it about Mexicans and Muslims based on a small sample of issues so why is your opinion ok in this case? There are a lot of terrible atrocities in our history that began as mere opinions and were fabricated into something bigger.
Alright, rant over.
By the way, I remembered another huge reason I think homeschooling is weird usually (and keep in mind that I did say at the beginning that there are exceptions to everything): I don't think it's particularly healthy for any child to spend that much time with their parents over the age of 6, and to not have several other non-related adult authority figures more closely involved in their development.
Whoops, just read that the Austin bomber was homeschooled, and just two days ago I read that Adam Lanza was too!
(that was a joke... kinda, lol).
Using the fact that a mass murderer and serial bomber were home schooled to try and prove your point (even a little) is as ignorant as when travel bans and tightened border security are called for when a Muslim man kills anyone. It's a bias based on limited incidents of an entire group of people. And for the record, don't even try to use Adam Lanza as an example. Your taking snippets of information to fulfill the biased narrative you're creating.
http://time.com/3551600/sandy-hook-advisory-commission-homeschooling/
We all make judgments and form opinions based on our life experiences, but that does not mean we should be ok with using our limited exposure and information to extrapolate that to an entire data set. That is how fear and intolerance are spread.
I think what is clear is that there are some very common factors among people who carry out mass murders, but homeschooling or public schooling is not one of those factors.
I have derailed this thread long enough, so I apologize.It's a hopeless situation...0
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