America's Gun Violence

vaggar99 said:

my gut tells me that the NRA is receiving money from Russia. how the else are these losers getting so much power?

october22 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

dudeman said:

october22 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Huh.
I guess I don't expect Americans to give a fuck about what a Canadian company does in response to America's gun problem, but I think it's interesting that Mountain Equipment Coop (which has 5 million members - kind of like a Costco membership), has announced they will no longer buy any products made by Vista Outdoor products because Vista also makes US guns and ammo. MEC doesn't sell firearms, but they are one of those socially involved companies by reputation, and decided they don't want to support a gun manufacturer in any way... This was, though, a direct response to a petition for them to make the move.
Obviously gun enthusiasts are against this move... but really, how many people give a shit about gun enthusiasts' opinions on these things? Not me. Even if this is just a symbolic move more than anything else, I'm having trouble with any arguments against it.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/mec-vista-outdoor-1.4557071

Because the argument for the 2nd Amendment in the US is not about being "enthusiastic" about guns. I've pasted below what I wrote in the thread about banning "assault weapons". I am against such a ban and was asked to explain why. This is what I wrote. It's pretty damn long and in two parts so no offense taken if you don't have time to read it or don't feel like it. Hope you've been well, by the way!

(Ok, I went a little nuts with the following, but it's late here and I've had a lot to say on this subject. Please forgive typos and some meandering as I've done no editing. Most of you probably disagree (as does Pearl Jam, apparently), but I respect you guys. Hopefully, you'll see that my opinion is born out of compassion and not some strange affinity for guns or violence.) Here goes...

I would be happy to explain my position, and I appreciate you not insinuating that I support mass murder or any of the other ridiculous and offensive comments I've seen on here with regard to gun owners and people who agree with my position on the second amendment. Neither side of this argument has a monopoly on compassion.

To be clear, the second amendment has absolutely nothing to do with hunting. It's meant for killing people. Specifically, it's meant for killing tyrants and the soldiers of a tyrannical government. There are also very specific cases in which it would be deemed appropriate to use a firearm to protect yourself, family, and fellow citizen from imminent deadly harm.

With that out of the way, I'll share some of my background with you because it's pertinent to how my opinion on gun rights was formed. I'm not a "hillbilly, hunter clinging to his bible and his guns." I'm an atheist from New Jersey who's never hunted in his life. I've lived in New York City for much of my adult life and graduated from New York University and The Royal Academy of Dramatic Art and Drama Studio in London. Hardly a cowboy. I own no camouflage or american flag clothing, no pick-up truck and no tactical gear. I've had my gun beliefs my entire life and have only recently purchased my first firearm. I don't fit the stereotype people have of gun owners and there are millions of people in America just like me. I'm a patriot, and I know people on the other side are as well. My heart breaks from gun violence the same as yours does. I will get to why I support gun rights, including access to AR-15 style rifles, but I ask you to bear with me. The following will largely discuss democide, defined as "the murder of any person or people by their government, including genocide, politicide and mass murder". Such death by government in just the 20th Century alone is estimated at over 262,000,000 world-wide and the best prevention is the rifle.

https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM

I was lucky to live in Prague as a young man. The principal of my school was the vice president of the newly independent state of Czech Republic. He and my teachers lived through the Velvet Revolution. It was during this time that I began to study democide. I learned about the German occupation of Czechoslovakia and the Czechoslovakian response after the war. The CZ government, with the support of the British and American governments, expelled millions of ethnic Germans from the country. It is estimated that tens to hundreds of thousands of innocent people guilty of simply speaking German, were killed during this process. Many were ripped out of their homes and shot and thousands were lined up in the street and run over with tanks and trucks. Video of this can be found on youtube. I mention this because it is one of the lesser known atrocities and genocides that took place during the 20th Century. Of course, the horrors of Hitler's crimes are almost indescribable, and I'm sure we're all familiar with most of them. I believe that the so-called "subjugated races" under Nazi rule should have had the right to defend themselves with firearms from those monsters, just as I believe every ethnic German man and woman in post-war Czechoslovakia should have had the right to shoot the bastards ripping them and their children from their homes to face certain death. There are many quotes concerning gun-control attributed to twentieth century dictators that may be dubious, but the following is confirmed true in the book, Hitler’s Table Talk, 1941-1944: Secret Conversations:

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subjugated races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subjugated races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let’s not have any native militia or native police." - Adolf Hitler, 1942  https://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/disarm.asp  

Continued.... 

I read both parts and I agree with everything you said. The typical response around here involves accusations of wearing tin foil hats.

“Democide.” Democrats are coming to kill you because they want to take your guns away and bring tyranny, nazi, cubano, Sandinista, Viet Cong style. Sorry, but the more I read this treatise, the more I doubt the authenticity of the author claiming it as their own, impassioned plea for rifle/AR15 ownership. Sorry but I’m not sold.

...Really?

dudeman said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Nothing can be done. 

Wounds From Military-Style Rifles? ‘A Ghastly Thing to See.’ - The New York Times https://apple.news/ATjzHgc_USEGXPADPmUzqIw

Are you aware of the percentage of people killed with rifles in the US annually? If so, how does that figure compare to the percentage of people killed with handguns?

october22 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

october22 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

dudeman said:

october22 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Huh.
I guess I don't expect Americans to give a fuck about what a Canadian company does in response to America's gun problem, but I think it's interesting that Mountain Equipment Coop (which has 5 million members - kind of like a Costco membership), has announced they will no longer buy any products made by Vista Outdoor products because Vista also makes US guns and ammo. MEC doesn't sell firearms, but they are one of those socially involved companies by reputation, and decided they don't want to support a gun manufacturer in any way... This was, though, a direct response

Because the argument for the 2nd Amendment in the US is not about being "enthusiastic" about guns. I've pasted below what I wrote in the thread about banning "assault weapons". I am against such a ban and was asked to explain why. This is what I wrote. It's pretty damn long and in two parts so no offense taken if you don't have time to read it or don't feel like it. Hope you've been well, by the way!

(Ok, I went a little nuts with the following, but it's late here and I've had a lot to say on this subject. Please forgive typos and some meandering as I've done no editing. Most of you probably disagree (as does Pearl Jam, apparently), but I respect you guys. Hopefully, you'll see that my opinion is born out of compassion and not some strange affinity for guns or violence.) Here goes...

I would be happy to explain my position, and I appreciate you not insinuating that I support mass murder or any of the other ridiculous and offensive comments I've seen on here with regard to gun owners and people who agree with my position on the second amendment. Neither side of this argument has a monopoly on compassion.

To be clear, the second amendment has absolutely nothing to do with hunting. It's meant for killing people. Specifically, it's meant for killing tyrants and the soldiers of a tyrannical government. There are also very specific cases in which it would be deemed appropriate to use a firearm to protect yourself, family, and fellow citizen from imminent deadly harm.

With that out of the way, I'll share some of my background with you because it's pertinent to how my opinion on gun rights was formed. I'm not a "hillbilly, hunter clinging to his bible and his guns." I'm an atheist from New Jersey who's never hunted in his life. I've lived in New York City for much of my adult life and graduated from New York University and The Royal Academy of Dramatic Art and Drama Studio in London. Hardly a cowboy. I own no camouflage or american flag clothing, no pick-up truck and no tactical gear. I've had my gun beliefs my entire life and have only recently purchased my first firearm. I don't fit the stereotype people have of gun owners and there are millions of people in America just like me. I'm a patriot, and I know people on the other side are as well. My heart breaks from gun violence the same as yours does. I will get to why I support gun rights, including access to AR-15 style rifles, but I ask you to bear with me. The following will largely discuss democide, defined as "the murder of any person or people by their government, including genocide, politicide and mass murder". Such death by government in just the 20th Century alone is estimated at over 262,000,000 world-wide and the best prevention is the rifle.

https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM

I was lucky to live in Prague as a young man. The principal of my school was the vice president of the newly independent state of Czech Republic. He and my teachers lived through the Velvet Revolution. It was during this time that I began to study democide. I learned about the German occupation of Czechoslovakia and the Czechoslovakian response after the war. The CZ government, with the support of the British and American governments, expelled millions of ethnic Germans from the country. It is estimated that tens to hundreds of thousands of innocent people guilty of simply speaking German, were killed during this process. Many were ripped out of their homes and shot and thousands were lined up in the street and run over with tanks and trucks. Video of this can be found on youtube. I mention this because it is one of the lesser known atrocities and genocides that took place during the 20th Century. Of course, the horrors of Hitler's crimes are almost indescribable, and I'm sure we're all familiar with most of them. I believe that the so-called "subjugated races" under Nazi rule should have had the right to defend themselves with firearms from those monsters, just as I believe every ethnic German man and woman in post-war Czechoslovakia should have had the right to shoot the bastards ripping them and their children from their homes to face certain death. There are many quotes concerning gun-control attributed to twentieth century dictators that may be dubious, but the following is confirmed true in the book, Hitler’s Table Talk, 1941-1944: Secret Conversations:
1942  https://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/disarm.asp  

Continued.... 

I read both parts and I agree with everything you said. The typical response around here involves accusations of wearing tin foil hats.

“Democide.” Democrats are coming to kill you because they want to take your guns away and bring tyranny, nazi, cubano, Sandinista, Viet Cong style. Sorry, but the more I read this treatise, the more I doubt the authenticity of the author claiming it as their own, impassioned plea for rifle/AR15 ownership. Sorry but I’m not sold.

...Really?

Yup, the more I hear the pro-gun side, the more I hear references to tyranny and the citation of democide. It’s like they’ve latched onto this concept as a rallying cry as to why assault rifles shouldn’t be banned or limited in any capacity (slippery slope). I realize that your treatise is in the should assault weapons be banned thread and I appreciate you making the argument, of which I see flaws. However, I can’t possibly reply from my phone and will have to wait until I can cut and paste after I create a word document. It sucks to lose what you’ve typed and to be stymied by the forums character limits, particularly when you reply to long posts.

Off the top of my head, the US in 2018 is not 1930s Germany, 1940s Soviet Union, 1950-60s Cuba, 1970s Cambodia or 1980s Latin America. Even the political scientist who created the concept of “democide” (why didn’t he call it republicide?) states that western style democracies with firmly entrenched democratic institutions are not prone to tyrannical behavior resulting in democide. More later and nothing personal, just a staunch opposing view point.

Well, you've accused me of plagiarism which is somewhat annoying, but I'll take it as a compliment. In your defense, I admit I didn't write anything particularly original considering the spirit of it goes back to at least ancient Greece. That may be why it reads so familiar to you.

So far, you haven't impressed me with your cheap shots and juvenile quips like "republicide", but I am genuinely curious to see if you can bring something of worth to this conversation when you have time to gather your thoughts. Who knows, maybe you'll convince me I'm wrong. I'm open to it.

HughFreakingDillon said:

unsung said:

Is this true?

https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2018/03/01/they-dont-hate-the-nra-they-hate-you-n2455264

'leftists are dumb'. seriously, dude, get some new reading material. 

my2hands said:

unsung said:

What's your point?

unsung said:

unsung said:

my2hands said:

unsung said:

What's your point?

Why are "weapons of war" protecting rich celebrities?