America's Gun Violence

The Juggler · February 2018

my2hands said:

rgambs said:

mace1229 said:

Bentleyspop said:

The people who want more security in schools as well as train and arm teachers and school staff are the same people who want to reduce government spending and believe that teachers are overpaid.

I think very few people support arming teachers. That is not a common viewpoint for GOP or gun owners.

I don't think that's true. It's everywhere.

thanks to a powerful propaganda campaign by the gun lobby and the republican establishment that they have bought and own

it's not about the right to BEAR arms, it's about the right to SELL arms

.....don't forget the Russian bots that are pushing this too

my2hands · February 2018

PJPOWER said:

mace1229 said:

rgambs said:

mace1229 said:

Bentleyspop said:

The people who want more security in schools as well as train and arm teachers and school staff are the same people who want to reduce government spending and believe that teachers are overpaid.

I think very few people support arming teachers. That is not a common viewpoint for GOP or gun owners.

I don't think that's true. It's everywhere.

I hear more security, maybe increase the number of campus police. But I only hear a few say give teachers guns.
I hear that teachers should have the right to protect themselves by carrying a gun if they chose more often, but I just haven't hear any politician or anyone outside of a few maybe on facebook or here suggest that giving teachers guns is going to solve it.
I just never saw that as an option anyone has taken seriously.

I don’t think anyone is advocating “giving” them to the teachers or forcing/requiring them to be armed...I would not be supportive of this. Allowing them to voluntarily arm themselves- yes (with mandatory strict training and certification).

And when they inevitably become the active shooter?

PJPOWER · February 2018

my2hands said:

PJPOWER said:

mace1229 said:

rgambs said:

mace1229 said:

Bentleyspop said:

The people who want more security in schools as well as train and arm teachers and school staff are the same people who want to reduce government spending and believe that teachers are overpaid.

I think very few people support arming teachers. That is not a common viewpoint for GOP or gun owners.

I don't think that's true. It's everywhere.

I hear more security, maybe increase the number of campus police. But I only hear a few say give teachers guns.
I hear that teachers should have the right to protect themselves by carrying a gun if they chose more often, but I just haven't hear any politician or anyone outside of a few maybe on facebook or here suggest that giving teachers guns is going to solve it.
I just never saw that as an option anyone has taken seriously.

I don’t think anyone is advocating “giving” them to the teachers or forcing/requiring them to be armed...I would not be supportive of this. Allowing them to voluntarily arm themselves- yes (with mandatory strict training and certification).

And when they inevitably become the active shooter?

What makes you think they would? What about when they inevitably stop an active shooter? Should we also disarm all law enforcement since they may become an active shooter? That’s a weak argument.

The Juggler · February 2018

PJPOWER said:

my2hands said:

PJPOWER said:

mace1229 said:

rgambs said:

mace1229 said:

Bentleyspop said:

The people who want more security in schools as well as train and arm teachers and school staff are the same people who want to reduce government spending and believe that teachers are overpaid.

I think very few people support arming teachers. That is not a common viewpoint for GOP or gun owners.

I don't think that's true. It's everywhere.

I hear more security, maybe increase the number of campus police. But I only hear a few say give teachers guns.
I hear that teachers should have the right to protect themselves by carrying a gun if they chose more often, but I just haven't hear any politician or anyone outside of a few maybe on facebook or here suggest that giving teachers guns is going to solve it.
I just never saw that as an option anyone has taken seriously.

I don’t think anyone is advocating “giving” them to the teachers or forcing/requiring them to be armed...I would not be supportive of this. Allowing them to voluntarily arm themselves- yes (with mandatory strict training and certification).

And when they inevitably become the active shooter?

What makes you think they would? What about when they inevitably stop an active shooter? Should we also disarm all law enforcement since they may become an active shooter? That’s a weak argument.

But they're not law enforcement. They're fucking teachers. If this country, compared to the rest of the world proves anything, it's that more guns have lead to more gun violence.

To me--its not that the teacher might become an active shooter (but you never know)....its that the likelihood of an accident with small children becomes a much greater risk. This is a dumb idea. Hire an armed security guard if you want. A kindergarten teacher teaching the alphabet with a loaded gun strapped to her person just sounds like the most asinine idea anyone has ever come up with.

PJPOWER · February 2018

The Juggler said:

PJPOWER said:

my2hands said:

PJPOWER said:

mace1229 said:

rgambs said:

mace1229 said:

Bentleyspop said:

The people who want more security in schools as well as train and arm teachers and school staff are the same people who want to reduce government spending and believe that teachers are overpaid.

I think very few people support arming teachers. That is not a common viewpoint for GOP or gun owners.

I don't think that's true. It's everywhere.

I hear more security, maybe increase the number of campus police. But I only hear a few say give teachers guns.
I hear that teachers should have the right to protect themselves by carrying a gun if they chose more often, but I just haven't hear any politician or anyone outside of a few maybe on facebook or here suggest that giving teachers guns is going to solve it.
I just never saw that as an option anyone has taken seriously.

I don’t think anyone is advocating “giving” them to the teachers or forcing/requiring them to be armed...I would not be supportive of this. Allowing them to voluntarily arm themselves- yes (with mandatory strict training and certification).

And when they inevitably become the active shooter?

What makes you think they would? What about when they inevitably stop an active shooter? Should we also disarm all law enforcement since they may become an active shooter? That’s a weak argument.

But they're not law enforcement. They're fucking teachers. If this country, compared to the rest of the world proves anything, it's that more guns have lead to more gun violence.

To me--its not that the teacher might become an active shooter (but you never know)....its that the likelihood of an accident with small children becomes a much greater risk. This is a dumb idea. Hire an armed security guard if you want. A kindergarten teacher teaching the alphabet with a loaded gun strapped to her person just sounds like the most asinine idea anyone has ever come up with.

I respectfully disagree. But thanks for truly enlightening me...
on how redundant discussing this topic on the AMT is. You said it is dumb, so it must be...

riley540 · February 2018

Ban gun sales. Still 300 million guns already out there. Seize the weapons. Risk a war on American soil. Arm the teachers, liberals won’t have it. Take the guns, conservatives won’t have it. Spend efforts figuring out why certain people commit mass murder, and figure out how to stop these people. Reasonable but not talked about. If you think that guy wouldn’t have shot up the school if he couldn’t get an AR 15, you are in denial. I’m sorry, but banning AR15s will not stop mass murders in schools or anywhere else. We need to stop romanticizing these killers. These are human scum looking for a mark in a history book.

Ive states before, I do not own guns and personally do not really care for them. But I can’t see a van changing anything at all. Personally. I think it’s a good sounding solution that’s emotionally driven and not logically driven.

stuckinline · February 2018

The Juggler said:

PJPOWER said:

my2hands said:

PJPOWER said:

mace1229 said:

rgambs said:

mace1229 said:

Bentleyspop said:

The people who want more security in schools as well as train and arm teachers and school staff are the same people who want to reduce government spending and believe that teachers are overpaid.

I think very few people support arming teachers. That is not a common viewpoint for GOP or gun owners.

I don't think that's true. It's everywhere.

I hear more security, maybe increase the number of campus police. But I only hear a few say give teachers guns.
I hear that teachers should have the right to protect themselves by carrying a gun if they chose more often, but I just haven't hear any politician or anyone outside of a few maybe on facebook or here suggest that giving teachers guns is going to solve it.
I just never saw that as an option anyone has taken seriously.

I don’t think anyone is advocating “giving” them to the teachers or forcing/requiring them to be armed...I would not be supportive of this. Allowing them to voluntarily arm themselves- yes (with mandatory strict training and certification).

And when they inevitably become the active shooter?

What makes you think they would? What about when they inevitably stop an active shooter? Should we also disarm all law enforcement since they may become an active shooter? That’s a weak argument.

But they're not law enforcement. They're fucking teachers. If this country, compared to the rest of the world proves anything, it's that more guns have lead to more gun violence.

To me--its not that the teacher might become an active shooter (but you never know)....its that the likelihood of an accident with small children becomes a much greater risk. This is a dumb idea. Hire an armed security guard if you want. A kindergarten teacher teaching the alphabet with a loaded gun strapped to her person just sounds like the most asinine idea anyone has ever come up with.

Children, lets recite our abcs. A as in arsenal, B as in bullet, C as in cartridge.....

PJPOWER · February 2018

riley540 said:

Ban gun sales. Still 300 million guns already out there. Seize the weapons. Risk a war on American soil. Arm the teachers, liberals won’t have it. Take the guns, conservatives won’t have it. Spend efforts figuring out why certain people commit mass murder, and figure out how to stop these people. Reasonable but not talked about. If you think that guy wouldn’t have shot up the school if he couldn’t get an AR 15, you are in denial. I’m sorry, but banning AR15s will not stop mass murders in schools or anywhere else. We need to stop romanticizing these killers. These are human scum looking for a mark in a history book.

Ive states before, I do not own guns and personally do not really care for them. But I can’t see a van changing anything at all. Personally. I think it’s a good sounding solution that’s emotionally driven and not logically driven.

But banning alcohol stopped people from drinking, don’t ya know. Maybe that would have stopped people in other countries from drinking though...

OnWis97 · February 2018

riley540 said:

Ban gun sales. Still 300 million guns already out there. Seize the weapons. Risk a war on American soil. Arm the teachers, liberals won’t have it. Take the guns, conservatives won’t have it. Spend efforts figuring out why certain people commit mass murder, and figure out how to stop these people. Reasonable but not talked about. If you think that guy wouldn’t have shot up the school if he couldn’t get an AR 15, you are in denial. I’m sorry, but banning AR15s will not stop mass murders in schools or anywhere else. We need to stop romanticizing these killers. These are human scum looking for a mark in a history book.

Ive states before, I do not own guns and personally do not really care for them. But I can’t see a van changing anything at all. Personally. I think it’s a good sounding solution that’s emotionally driven and not logically driven.

That's the most infeasible thing you wrote. I'm not really sure we do romanticize them, but to whatever degree we do, how do we stop that?

rgambs · February 2018

my2hands said:

rgambs said:

The Juggler said:

rgambs said:

brianlux said:

rgambs said:

I understand that many of us are all het up on this issue, but I have to say, from my perspective, the gun control crowd is not presenting their argument well here. I'm seeing a majority of the comments arguing against straw men and using slippery slope sloppiness.

I don't know- when those in favor of guns continue to suggest that everyone should arm themselves and want more guns, I think some sarcastic replies like "yee haw, more guns for everyone!" is reasonable response. Are we supposed to argue for the millionth time that countries with few guns have a lower percentage of gun related deaths? We get tired of making the same logical arguments that fall on deaf ears.

But from the other side, are they supposed to point out, for the millionth time, that our country already has a bazillion guns that can't be eradicated any time soon?

I think there IS a middle ground in this issue, and it involves protecting yourself and our children as safely as you can while continuing to work hard to stop the production and proliferation and limit access.

I think we are on the same page unless you are advocating for teachers to all arm themselves? No problem with people owning guns to hunt and protect their families....and having more security at schools.

I'm for more security at schools and continued efforts at whatever gun control we can manage.
More security at schools includes metal detectors and lockdown systems, security personnel, and volunteer teachers/admin who pass certification processes to have firearm options.

Sounds like a prison to me. Such an awesome future for our children

Best country in the world, my ass

Sounds like a hospital to me.

riley540 · February 2018

OnWis97 said:

riley540 said:

Ban gun sales. Still 300 million guns already out there. Seize the weapons. Risk a war on American soil. Arm the teachers, liberals won’t have it. Take the guns, conservatives won’t have it. Spend efforts figuring out why certain people commit mass murder, and figure out how to stop these people. Reasonable but not talked about. If you think that guy wouldn’t have shot up the school if he couldn’t get an AR 15, you are in denial. I’m sorry, but banning AR15s will not stop mass murders in schools or anywhere else. We need to stop romanticizing these killers. These are human scum looking for a mark in a history book.

Ive states before, I do not own guns and personally do not really care for them. But I can’t see a van changing anything at all. Personally. I think it’s a good sounding solution that’s emotionally driven and not logically driven.

That's the most infeasible thing you wrote. I'm not really sure we do romanticize them, but to whatever degree we do, how do we stop that?

i don’t have a solution. Just stating what I see. Dylan Klebold is a famous name from columbine. We put these peopleall I’ver the news, internet, magazines, ect. And other sick twisted people see it. In a sick and twisted romantic way. So they think they can do it. It’s shitty fame. I know some smaller news outlets have started not showing pictures, or using the names of shooters and mass killers. Maybe it will help. I don’t really know.

I have no solution. Just talking what I’m thinking

Gern Blansten · February 2018

PJPOWER said:

riley540 said:

Ban gun sales. Still 300 million guns already out there. Seize the weapons. Risk a war on American soil. Arm the teachers, liberals won’t have it. Take the guns, conservatives won’t have it. Spend efforts figuring out why certain people commit mass murder, and figure out how to stop these people. Reasonable but not talked about. If you think that guy wouldn’t have shot up the school if he couldn’t get an AR 15, you are in denial. I’m sorry, but banning AR15s will not stop mass murders in schools or anywhere else. We need to stop romanticizing these killers. These are human scum looking for a mark in a history book.

Ive states before, I do not own guns and personally do not really care for them. But I can’t see a van changing anything at all. Personally. I think it’s a good sounding solution that’s emotionally driven and not logically driven.

But banning alcohol stopped people from drinking, don’t ya know. Maybe that would have stopped people in other countries from drinking though...

I can't go into a school and drink a gallon of shit and kill 17 people

PJPOWER · February 2018

“Ohio Sheriff offers free concealed-carry classes for teachers”
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2018/02/ohio_sheriff_offers_free_conce.html
Over 200 teachers signed up in one day.
Guess some of you better move to Canada as it seems more and more schools are going this route...

riley540 · February 2018

I think convincing people to arm themsleves would be an easier path to take than to convinced armed people to unarm themselves. I just don’t mind. If people want to own guns that’s fine, if people don’t, that’s fine to me. All of my gun owning friends have never committed mass murder, so it doesn’t bug me

mcgruff10 · February 2018

Mag limits to 10 or 15 rounds is a great way to start.

Gern Blansten · February 2018

riley540 said:

I think convincing people to arm themsleves would be an easier path to take than to convinced armed people to unarm themselves. I just don’t mind. If people want to own guns that’s fine, if people don’t, that’s fine to me. All of my gun owning friends have never committed mass murder, so it doesn’t bug me

I'm not sure that I foresee a disarming. I think it would be phased in through registration of current weapons and restrictions on the manufacture and purchase of new weapons.

Also restrictions on ammo. You want to keep that gun? Fine...the bullets are $1000 each

The Juggler · February 2018

riley540 said:

Ban gun sales. Still 300 million guns already out there. Seize the weapons. Risk a war on American soil. Arm the teachers, liberals won’t have it. Take the guns, conservatives won’t have it. Spend efforts figuring out why certain people commit mass murder, and figure out how to stop these people. Reasonable but not talked about. If you think that guy wouldn’t have shot up the school if he couldn’t get an AR 15, you are in denial. I’m sorry, but banning AR15s will not stop mass murders in schools or anywhere else. We need to stop romanticizing these killers. These are human scum looking for a mark in a history book.

Ive states before, I do not own guns and personally do not really care for them. But I can’t see a van changing anything at all. Personally. I think it’s a good sounding solution that’s emotionally driven and not logically driven.

A ban actually did change things back in the 90's. More extensive bans have worked in most other civilized societies. Why would it not work here, again....especially with more expensive background checks and more security at schools?

Question for you: Since you say if the guy couldn't get an AR 15 he would still have been able to shoot up the school...my question is how would he have been able to do the same damage if he could not get his hands on an automatic rifle?

And if non automatic rifles would accomplish the same thing....well, why do these shootings all happen with automatic rifles then? Seems to me, and I would think the shooters as well since they're the one using them, that the automatic rifles make killing mass amounts of people way easier than non automatic rifles.

JC29856 · February 2018

this is for all the libertarians... swann addressed the issue of Trump and the GOP making it easier for mentally ill to buy guns.
maddow and Mjoe have cameos

https://youtu.be/vVws4ohBHH8

mattsl1983 · February 2018

The Juggler said:

PJPOWER said:

pjhawks said:

rgambs said:

pjhawks said:

rgambs said:

pjhawks said:

PJPOWER said:

pjhawks said:

personally I think you have to be a complete idiot to think the solution to mass shootings is more guns. it really is an absurd premise.

Do you feel the same way about armed security at sporting events and concerts? Do you feel safer or less safe at a concert knowing there is armed security?

Most sporting events and arenas now have metal detectors and you get wanded going in. You can never be 100% safe but I don't think you need 1000s of armed guards at sporting events and concerts. and to be honest i've never gone into a game or concert and said to myself 'wow i'ms sure glad there are guards here, now i feel safe'. not once. What's next guard towers on the top of schools? on every block in every city? get weapons made for war out the hands of citizens. it's really not complicated.

That slippery slope argument isn't any better than the pro-gun ones regarding gun confiscations.

how can adding more of the main thing causing the problem be the solution? you don't throw gasoline on a fire. is this really hard to comprehend?

I didn't suggest that it was.
I generally agree, but things are getting pretty severe and my position is loosening.

Have you never heard of a controlled burn?
Have you ever been in a fist fight?
Sometimes there's only one way out of a violent situation.

I don't think "more guns" is a solution, but Im beginning to think "more controlled access to guns in combination with the right people having emergency access to guns" is a solution.

But is giving someone a handgun going to prevent or stop an attack of someone with an assault rifle? no, if they have an assault rifle and the desire there will be casualties. i don't know the exact numbers but how many rounds can be fired from an assault rifle before a handgun is pulled and fired? Unless you are preventatively shooting people you aren't preventing or stopping an attack with no casualties with a handgun. there is one solution. stop people from having mass casualty weapons. period.

Sounds like a great idea for 10-20 years down the road...

I'll repeat this for about the FOURTH time. There was an assault weapons ban that WORKED from 1994-2004.

Again, referencing the 1994-2004, where were all the mass shootings before 1994?

Meltdown99 · February 2018

The Juggler said:

PJPOWER said:

my2hands said:

PJPOWER said:

mace1229 said:

rgambs said:

mace1229 said:

Bentleyspop said:

The people who want more security in schools as well as train and arm teachers and school staff are the same people who want to reduce government spending and believe that teachers are overpaid.

I think very few people support arming teachers. That is not a common viewpoint for GOP or gun owners.

I don't think that's true. It's everywhere.

I hear more security, maybe increase the number of campus police. But I only hear a few say give teachers guns.
I hear that teachers should have the right to protect themselves by carrying a gun if they chose more often, but I just haven't hear any politician or anyone outside of a few maybe on facebook or here suggest that giving teachers guns is going to solve it.
I just never saw that as an option anyone has taken seriously.

I don’t think anyone is advocating “giving” them to the teachers or forcing/requiring them to be armed...I would not be supportive of this. Allowing them to voluntarily arm themselves- yes (with mandatory strict training and certification).

And when they inevitably become the active shooter?

What makes you think they would? What about when they inevitably stop an active shooter? Should we also disarm all law enforcement since they may become an active shooter? That’s a weak argument.

But they're not law enforcement. They're fucking teachers. If this country, compared to the rest of the world proves anything, it's that more guns have lead to more gun violence.

To me--its not that the teacher might become an active shooter (but you never know)....its that the likelihood of an accident with small children becomes a much greater risk. This is a dumb idea. Hire an armed security guard if you want. A kindergarten teacher teaching the alphabet with a loaded gun strapped to her person just sounds like the most asinine idea anyone has ever come up with.

That’s be something to see. Teachers carrying a holstered gun, like it’s the Wild West. No disrespect to any teacher, but teachers can get very stressed...there has to be a better way.

America's Gun Violence

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