America's Gun Violence

Gern Blansten · February 2018

Got any others?

PJPOWER · February 2018

pjhawks said:

personally I think you have to be a complete idiot to think the solution to mass shootings is more guns. it really is an absurd premise.

Do you feel the same way about armed security at sporting events and concerts? Do you feel safer or less safe at a concert knowing there is armed security?

The Juggler · February 2018

PJPOWER said:

pjhawks said:

personally I think you have to be a complete idiot to think the solution to mass shootings is more guns. it really is an absurd premise.

Do you feel the same way about armed security at sporting events and concerts? Do you feel safer or less safe at a concert knowing there is armed security?

Why do you think mass shootings only happen with this kind of frequency in the United States?

Please be very specific in your response.

JC29856 · February 2018

I wanted to see how easily I could walk into a local gun show and purchase a AR15 in PA. $8 door fee and within a half hour, I had a AR15, 2 clips and 500 rounds of ammo for less than $600! I opted for a very low budget version instead of the more expensive more reputable models. There were six at the show from $429 to more than $1400.
I filled out two separate forms and provided my ID, handed over the cash and walked out a Glorified G

PJPOWER · February 2018

Gern Blansten said:

PJPOWER said:

Gern Blansten said:

PJPOWER said:

Gern Blansten said:

Working the GOP more gun theory further forward....at some point the police will not be able to determine who is good and who is bad.

This is a slippery slope.

We will move forward with more school shootings, etc. At some point though there will be a "good guy" that gets killed either by another "good guy" or police. I'm sure it's happened already but the GOP drones need real life examples before they even begin to understand a problem.

Gern Blansten said:

Working the GOP more gun theory further forward....at some point the police will not be able to determine who is good and who is bad.

This is a slippery slope.

We will move forward with more school shootings, etc. At some point though there will be a "good guy" that gets killed either by another "good guy" or police. I'm sure it's happened already but the GOP drones need real life examples before they even begin to understand a problem.

That’s why the schools that have implemented this work closely with law enforcement.
You know, I could come up with plenty of anecdotal scenarios where this would work to meet all of yours that you keep throwing out arguing why it wouldn’t...
Hell, putting a sign up saying all teachers are armed and not actually having anyone armed would be better than nothing. In my opinion, these people need deterrents. There are plenty of deterrents that do not require politically unrealistic changed laws. They would probably require a lot less funds than legislation as well...

No you can't....because the scenarios I laid out are going to happen.

It's as simple as looking at why the USA has these problems and no other country does. You can argue your way out of that.

I can, easily. Here’s one:
Someone armed to the teeth goes up to a school, walks in and starts shooting. Teacher pops out the door and shoots back...The shooter then either offs themseves or takes rounds and is immobilized.
or
Someone goes looking for a soft target and sees a sign saying that the school is armed...changes their mind.
or
Armed VOLUNTEERS at the school meet once a month with local law enforcement to go through exercises and work together on solutions together. A situation starts to unfold and the teachers follow protocol and and training do not start shooting at each other...
See, anyone can come up with anecdotes...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cops-teacher-left-gun-in-bathroom-elementary-kids-found-it/

Hey great idea PJPOWER!!!

Did anyone get shot? I feel that the odds of a random occurrence like this happening are outweighed by the deterrent factor to someone coming in and shooting up those students. Sounds like the teacher got dealt with accordingly...

PJPOWER · February 2018

Gern Blansten said:

Got any others?

Plenty, but I choose to argue this topic in ways other than throwing out anecdotal “what ifs” and straw man arguments.

Gern Blansten · February 2018

PJPOWER said:

Gern Blansten said:

PJPOWER said:

Gern Blansten said:

PJPOWER said:

Gern Blansten said:

Working the GOP more gun theory further forward....at some point the police will not be able to determine who is good and who is bad.

This is a slippery slope.

We will move forward with more school shootings, etc. At some point though there will be a "good guy" that gets killed either by another "good guy" or police. I'm sure it's happened already but the GOP drones need real life examples before they even begin to understand a problem.

Gern Blansten said:

Working the GOP more gun theory further forward....at some point the police will not be able to determine who is good and who is bad.

This is a slippery slope.

We will move forward with more school shootings, etc. At some point though there will be a "good guy" that gets killed either by another "good guy" or police. I'm sure it's happened already but the GOP drones need real life examples before they even begin to understand a problem.

That’s why the schools that have implemented this work closely with law enforcement.
You know, I could come up with plenty of anecdotal scenarios where this would work to meet all of yours that you keep throwing out arguing why it wouldn’t...
Hell, putting a sign up saying all teachers are armed and not actually having anyone armed would be better than nothing. In my opinion, these people need deterrents. There are plenty of deterrents that do not require politically unrealistic changed laws. They would probably require a lot less funds than legislation as well...

No you can't....because the scenarios I laid out are going to happen.

It's as simple as looking at why the USA has these problems and no other country does. You can argue your way out of that.

I can, easily. Here’s one:
Someone armed to the teeth goes up to a school, walks in and starts shooting. Teacher pops out the door and shoots back...The shooter then either offs themseves or takes rounds and is immobilized.
or
Someone goes looking for a soft target and sees a sign saying that the school is armed...changes their mind.
or
Armed VOLUNTEERS at the school meet once a month with local law enforcement to go through exercises and work together on solutions together. A situation starts to unfold and the teachers follow protocol and and training do not start shooting at each other...
See, anyone can come up with anecdotes...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cops-teacher-left-gun-in-bathroom-elementary-kids-found-it/

Hey great idea PJPOWER!!!

Did anyone get shot? I feel that the odds of a random occurrence like this happening are outweighed by the deterrent factor of someone coming in and shooting up those students. Sounds like the teacher got dealt with accordingly...

LOL....unreal

pjhawks · February 2018

PJPOWER said:

pjhawks said:

personally I think you have to be a complete idiot to think the solution to mass shootings is more guns. it really is an absurd premise.

Do you feel the same way about armed security at sporting events and concerts? Do you feel safer or less safe at a concert knowing there is armed security?

Most sporting events and arenas now have metal detectors and you get wanded going in. You can never be 100% safe but I don't think you need 1000s of armed guards at sporting events and concerts. and to be honest i've never gone into a game or concert and said to myself 'wow i'ms sure glad there are guards here, now i feel safe'. not once. What's next guard towers on the top of schools? on every block in every city? get weapons made for war out the hands of citizens. it's really not complicated.

PJPOWER · February 2018

Gern Blansten said:

PJPOWER said:

Gern Blansten said:

PJPOWER said:

Gern Blansten said:

PJPOWER said:

Gern Blansten said:

Working the GOP more gun theory further forward....at some point the police will not be able to determine who is good and who is bad.

This is a slippery slope.

We will move forward with more school shootings, etc. At some point though there will be a "good guy" that gets killed either by another "good guy" or police. I'm sure it's happened already but the GOP drones need real life examples before they even begin to understand a problem.

Gern Blansten said:

Working the GOP more gun theory further forward....at some point the police will not be able to determine who is good and who is bad.

This is a slippery slope.

We will move forward with more school shootings, etc. At some point though there will be a "good guy" that gets killed either by another "good guy" or police. I'm sure it's happened already but the GOP drones need real life examples before they even begin to understand a problem.

That’s why the schools that have implemented this work closely with law enforcement.
You know, I could come up with plenty of anecdotal scenarios where this would work to meet all of yours that you keep throwing out arguing why it wouldn’t...
Hell, putting a sign up saying all teachers are armed and not actually having anyone armed would be better than nothing. In my opinion, these people need deterrents. There are plenty of deterrents that do not require politically unrealistic changed laws. They would probably require a lot less funds than legislation as well...

No you can't....because the scenarios I laid out are going to happen.

It's as simple as looking at why the USA has these problems and no other country does. You can argue your way out of that.

I can, easily. Here’s one:
Someone armed to the teeth goes up to a school, walks in and starts shooting. Teacher pops out the door and shoots back...The shooter then either offs themseves or takes rounds and is immobilized.
or
Someone goes looking for a soft target and sees a sign saying that the school is armed...changes their mind.
or
Armed VOLUNTEERS at the school meet once a month with local law enforcement to go through exercises and work together on solutions together. A situation starts to unfold and the teachers follow protocol and and training do not start shooting at each other...
See, anyone can come up with anecdotes...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cops-teacher-left-gun-in-bathroom-elementary-kids-found-it/

Hey great idea PJPOWER!!!

Did anyone get shot? I feel that the odds of a random occurrence like this happening are outweighed by the deterrent factor of someone coming in and shooting up those students. Sounds like the teacher got dealt with accordingly...

LOL....unreal

As are your anecdotal “what ifs”.
Here’s one, what if that teacher that shielded the students had been concealed carrying? Would that have increased or decreased the odds of protecting his students?

rgambs · February 2018

pjhawks said:

PJPOWER said:

pjhawks said:

personally I think you have to be a complete idiot to think the solution to mass shootings is more guns. it really is an absurd premise.

Do you feel the same way about armed security at sporting events and concerts? Do you feel safer or less safe at a concert knowing there is armed security?

Most sporting events and arenas now have metal detectors and you get wanded going in. You can never be 100% safe but I don't think you need 1000s of armed guards at sporting events and concerts. and to be honest i've never gone into a game or concert and said to myself 'wow i'ms sure glad there are guards here, now i feel safe'. not once. What's next guard towers on the top of schools? on every block in every city? get weapons made for war out the hands of citizens. it's really not complicated.

That slippery slope argument isn't any better than the pro-gun ones regarding gun confiscations.

riotgrl · February 2018

mattsl1983 said:

riotgrl said:

riley540 said:

There isn’t any affective solution I have heard yet. I personally don’t have a good idea to end school shootings, but I haven’t heard any ideas that would actually change anything

Really? I've seen both long term and short term solutions mentioned by numerous people here that don't include complete bans. Just to clarify, in the short term, background checks, required safety courses, required courses on storing guns are things that won't work? And in the long term, stocking our schools full of people that can help identify, intervene, and help those with anger issues so they don't execute kids while they are at school, won't work? I guess my questions is, why won't those things work, in your opinion?

We have background checks in place. Most of the mass shootings the shooters passed and cleared a background check. We can’t look into the future and say so and so is going to snap in a year. Safety courses and required courses would be easy for anyone to take and pass. The main issue is now it’s the individual’s responsibility to follow the laws and what they learned through their mandatory courses. Sure it could possibly help, but I really don’t see that as a viable solution. The truth is we can’t control what someone is going to do one day to the next. I really don’t have a solution, it’s a very complicated issue. Something needs to be done, but it needs to be something effective. Not a knee jerk reaction so a couple of people in congress can high five themselves and then use it as a platform for being re-elected.

And the other longer term solutions? I live in KY where TWO mass school shootings have occurred in a population of about 6 million. Can't even tell you what a joke our 'background' checks are in this state. As long as people keep telling me their gun is more important than the lives of my children and my students then we will never solve the problem. But then again it is proven over and over again that guns and individual rights are more important than the common good. Amazing how that part of the Constitution is always skipped right over.

rgambs · February 2018

On an issue as severely divided as this one, I think one thing that both sides should be able to agree on is that this is not a slippery slope. This is a flat field with good traction, and both sides are dug in too deep to allow the other side to run to positions that are extreme in relation to how they currently are...which happens to be very extreme in favor of gun rights.

There won't be door to door confiscations if we beef up background checks and set some limits, and there also won't be a guard tower on every corner and toddlers open-carrying if we consider letting some appropriately trained professionals protect our children at school.

Those arguments aren't helping the situation.

PJPOWER · February 2018

rgambs said:

pjhawks said:

PJPOWER said:

pjhawks said:

personally I think you have to be a complete idiot to think the solution to mass shootings is more guns. it really is an absurd premise.

Do you feel the same way about armed security at sporting events and concerts? Do you feel safer or less safe at a concert knowing there is armed security?

Most sporting events and arenas now have metal detectors and you get wanded going in. You can never be 100% safe but I don't think you need 1000s of armed guards at sporting events and concerts. and to be honest i've never gone into a game or concert and said to myself 'wow i'ms sure glad there are guards here, now i feel safe'. not once. What's next guard towers on the top of schools? on every block in every city? get weapons made for war out the hands of citizens. it's really not complicated.

That slippery slope argument isn't any better than the pro-gun ones regarding gun confiscations.

Exactly...no one says “1000s of armed guards” or “guard towers”. I believe it would only take a couple (depending on the size of the school) of armed individuals within the schools to thwart some of these things.

Gern Blansten · February 2018

PJPOWER said:

Gern Blansten said:

PJPOWER said:

Gern Blansten said:

PJPOWER said:

Gern Blansten said:

PJPOWER said:

Gern Blansten said:

Working the GOP more gun theory further forward....at some point the police will not be able to determine who is good and who is bad.

This is a slippery slope.

We will move forward with more school shootings, etc. At some point though there will be a "good guy" that gets killed either by another "good guy" or police. I'm sure it's happened already but the GOP drones need real life examples before they even begin to understand a problem.

Gern Blansten said:

Working the GOP more gun theory further forward....at some point the police will not be able to determine who is good and who is bad.

This is a slippery slope.

We will move forward with more school shootings, etc. At some point though there will be a "good guy" that gets killed either by another "good guy" or police. I'm sure it's happened already but the GOP drones need real life examples before they even begin to understand a problem.

That’s why the schools that have implemented this work closely with law enforcement.
You know, I could come up with plenty of anecdotal scenarios where this would work to meet all of yours that you keep throwing out arguing why it wouldn’t...
Hell, putting a sign up saying all teachers are armed and not actually having anyone armed would be better than nothing. In my opinion, these people need deterrents. There are plenty of deterrents that do not require politically unrealistic changed laws. They would probably require a lot less funds than legislation as well...

No you can't....because the scenarios I laid out are going to happen.

It's as simple as looking at why the USA has these problems and no other country does. You can argue your way out of that.

I can, easily. Here’s one:
Someone armed to the teeth goes up to a school, walks in and starts shooting. Teacher pops out the door and shoots back...The shooter then either offs themseves or takes rounds and is immobilized.
or
Someone goes looking for a soft target and sees a sign saying that the school is armed...changes their mind.
or
Armed VOLUNTEERS at the school meet once a month with local law enforcement to go through exercises and work together on solutions together. A situation starts to unfold and the teachers follow protocol and and training do not start shooting at each other...
See, anyone can come up with anecdotes...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cops-teacher-left-gun-in-bathroom-elementary-kids-found-it/

Hey great idea PJPOWER!!!

Did anyone get shot? I feel that the odds of a random occurrence like this happening are outweighed by the deterrent factor of someone coming in and shooting up those students. Sounds like the teacher got dealt with accordingly...

LOL....unreal

As are your anecdotal “what ifs”.
Here’s one, what if that teacher that shielded the students had been concealed carrying? Would that have increased or decreased the odds of protecting his students?

What if the gunman would have been prevented from owning an assault rifle?

The Juggler · February 2018

PJPOWER said:

rgambs said:

pjhawks said:

PJPOWER said:

pjhawks said:

personally I think you have to be a complete idiot to think the solution to mass shootings is more guns. it really is an absurd premise.

Do you feel the same way about armed security at sporting events and concerts? Do you feel safer or less safe at a concert knowing there is armed security?

Most sporting events and arenas now have metal detectors and you get wanded going in. You can never be 100% safe but I don't think you need 1000s of armed guards at sporting events and concerts. and to be honest i've never gone into a game or concert and said to myself 'wow i'ms sure glad there are guards here, now i feel safe'. not once. What's next guard towers on the top of schools? on every block in every city? get weapons made for war out the hands of citizens. it's really not complicated.

That slippery slope argument isn't any better than the pro-gun ones regarding gun confiscations.

Exactly...no one says “1000s of armed guards” or “guard towers”. I believe it would only take a couple (depending on the size of the school) of armed individuals within the schools to thwart some of these things.

Second Request:

Why do you think mass shootings only happen with this kind of frequency in the United States?

Please be very specific in your response.

PJPOWER · February 2018

pjhawks said:

PJPOWER said:

pjhawks said:

personally I think you have to be a complete idiot to think the solution to mass shootings is more guns. it really is an absurd premise.

Do you feel the same way about armed security at sporting events and concerts? Do you feel safer or less safe at a concert knowing there is armed security?

Most sporting events and arenas now have metal detectors and you get wanded going in. You can never be 100% safe but I don't think you need 1000s of armed guards at sporting events and concerts. and to be honest i've never gone into a game or concert and said to myself 'wow i'ms sure glad there are guards here, now i feel safe'. not once. What's next guard towers on the top of schools? on every block in every city? get weapons made for war out the hands of citizens. it's really not complicated.

So let’s change it up, would you feel safer or less safe at a concert knowing that guards there were not allowed to be armed? I’m all for metal detectors too, btw.
And it IS that complicated...otherwise it would have already happened...after Newtown...after Vegas...it’s a highly complicated issue in the US.

rgambs · February 2018

Gern Blansten said:

PJPOWER said:

Gern Blansten said:

PJPOWER said:

Gern Blansten said:

PJPOWER said:

Gern Blansten said:

PJPOWER said:

Gern Blansten said:

Working the GOP more gun theory further forward....at some point the police will not be able to determine who is good and who is bad.

This is a slippery slope.

We will move forward with more school shootings, etc. At some point though there will be a "good guy" that gets killed either by another "good guy" or police. I'm sure it's happened already but the GOP drones need real life examples before they even begin to understand a problem.

Gern Blansten said:

Working the GOP more gun theory further forward....at some point the police will not be able to determine who is good and who is bad.

This is a slippery slope.

We will move forward with more school shootings, etc. At some point though there will be a "good guy" that gets killed either by another "good guy" or police. I'm sure it's happened already but the GOP drones need real life examples before they even begin to understand a problem.

That’s why the schools that have implemented this work closely with law enforcement.
You know, I could come up with plenty of anecdotal scenarios where this would work to meet all of yours that you keep throwing out arguing why it wouldn’t...
Hell, putting a sign up saying all teachers are armed and not actually having anyone armed would be better than nothing. In my opinion, these people need deterrents. There are plenty of deterrents that do not require politically unrealistic changed laws. They would probably require a lot less funds than legislation as well...

No you can't....because the scenarios I laid out are going to happen.

It's as simple as looking at why the USA has these problems and no other country does. You can argue your way out of that.

I can, easily. Here’s one:
Someone armed to the teeth goes up to a school, walks in and starts shooting. Teacher pops out the door and shoots back...The shooter then either offs themseves or takes rounds and is immobilized.
or
Someone goes looking for a soft target and sees a sign saying that the school is armed...changes their mind.
or
Armed VOLUNTEERS at the school meet once a month with local law enforcement to go through exercises and work together on solutions together. A situation starts to unfold and the teachers follow protocol and and training do not start shooting at each other...
See, anyone can come up with anecdotes...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cops-teacher-left-gun-in-bathroom-elementary-kids-found-it/

Hey great idea PJPOWER!!!

Did anyone get shot? I feel that the odds of a random occurrence like this happening are outweighed by the deterrent factor of someone coming in and shooting up those students. Sounds like the teacher got dealt with accordingly...

LOL....unreal

As are your anecdotal “what ifs”.
Here’s one, what if that teacher that shielded the students had been concealed carrying? Would that have increased or decreased the odds of protecting his students?

What if the gunman would have been prevented from owning an assault rifle?

Shouldn't we be considering everything, including both of these solutions, simultaneously when it comes to protecting our kids??

pjhawks · February 2018

rgambs said:

pjhawks said:

PJPOWER said:

pjhawks said:

personally I think you have to be a complete idiot to think the solution to mass shootings is more guns. it really is an absurd premise.

Do you feel the same way about armed security at sporting events and concerts? Do you feel safer or less safe at a concert knowing there is armed security?

Most sporting events and arenas now have metal detectors and you get wanded going in. You can never be 100% safe but I don't think you need 1000s of armed guards at sporting events and concerts. and to be honest i've never gone into a game or concert and said to myself 'wow i'ms sure glad there are guards here, now i feel safe'. not once. What's next guard towers on the top of schools? on every block in every city? get weapons made for war out the hands of citizens. it's really not complicated.

That slippery slope argument isn't any better than the pro-gun ones regarding gun confiscations.

how can adding more of the main thing causing the problem be the solution? you don't throw gasoline on a fire. is this really hard to comprehend?

PJPOWER · February 2018

Gern Blansten said:

PJPOWER said:

Gern Blansten said:

PJPOWER said:

Gern Blansten said:

PJPOWER said:

Gern Blansten said:

PJPOWER said:

Gern Blansten said:

Working the GOP more gun theory further forward....at some point the police will not be able to determine who is good and who is bad.

This is a slippery slope.

We will move forward with more school shootings, etc. At some point though there will be a "good guy" that gets killed either by another "good guy" or police. I'm sure it's happened already but the GOP drones need real life examples before they even begin to understand a problem.

Gern Blansten said:

Working the GOP more gun theory further forward....at some point the police will not be able to determine who is good and who is bad.

This is a slippery slope.

We will move forward with more school shootings, etc. At some point though there will be a "good guy" that gets killed either by another "good guy" or police. I'm sure it's happened already but the GOP drones need real life examples before they even begin to understand a problem.

That’s why the schools that have implemented this work closely with law enforcement.
You know, I could come up with plenty of anecdotal scenarios where this would work to meet all of yours that you keep throwing out arguing why it wouldn’t...
Hell, putting a sign up saying all teachers are armed and not actually having anyone armed would be better than nothing. In my opinion, these people need deterrents. There are plenty of deterrents that do not require politically unrealistic changed laws. They would probably require a lot less funds than legislation as well...

No you can't....because the scenarios I laid out are going to happen.

It's as simple as looking at why the USA has these problems and no other country does. You can argue your way out of that.

I can, easily. Here’s one:
Someone armed to the teeth goes up to a school, walks in and starts shooting. Teacher pops out the door and shoots back...The shooter then either offs themseves or takes rounds and is immobilized.
or
Someone goes looking for a soft target and sees a sign saying that the school is armed...changes their mind.
or
Armed VOLUNTEERS at the school meet once a month with local law enforcement to go through exercises and work together on solutions together. A situation starts to unfold and the teachers follow protocol and and training do not start shooting at each other...
See, anyone can come up with anecdotes...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cops-teacher-left-gun-in-bathroom-elementary-kids-found-it/

Hey great idea PJPOWER!!!

Did anyone get shot? I feel that the odds of a random occurrence like this happening are outweighed by the deterrent factor of someone coming in and shooting up those students. Sounds like the teacher got dealt with accordingly...

LOL....unreal

As are your anecdotal “what ifs”.
Here’s one, what if that teacher that shielded the students had been concealed carrying? Would that have increased or decreased the odds of protecting his students?

What if the gunman would have been prevented from owning an assault rifle?

Hey, that would have been awesome...but he wasn’t...and the likelihood (regardless of blame) is that someone just like him will still be able to 10 years from now...So, what can be done NOW that doesn’t rely on politics or political parties, or lobbying groups.

PJPOWER · February 2018

pjhawks said:

rgambs said:

pjhawks said:

PJPOWER said:

pjhawks said:

personally I think you have to be a complete idiot to think the solution to mass shootings is more guns. it really is an absurd premise.

Do you feel the same way about armed security at sporting events and concerts? Do you feel safer or less safe at a concert knowing there is armed security?

Most sporting events and arenas now have metal detectors and you get wanded going in. You can never be 100% safe but I don't think you need 1000s of armed guards at sporting events and concerts. and to be honest i've never gone into a game or concert and said to myself 'wow i'ms sure glad there are guards here, now i feel safe'. not once. What's next guard towers on the top of schools? on every block in every city? get weapons made for war out the hands of citizens. it's really not complicated.

That slippery slope argument isn't any better than the pro-gun ones regarding gun confiscations.

how can adding more of the main thing causing the problem be the solution? you don't throw gasoline on a fire. is this really hard to comprehend?

Apples and oranges...one could also say that you do treat snake bites with snake venom.

America's Gun Violence

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