America's Gun Violence

dignin said:

Arming teachers is the dumbest thing I may have read on here. And a complete sideshow. 

PJ_Soul said:

josevolution said:

I say install metal detectors or at least have security guards at all schools searching everyone entering the school ...

I think that is a horrific idea.

HesCalledDyer said:

tbergs said:

Say we spend the billions necessary to make every school have armed security, that still leaves every other large public place or even one of those goddamn gas station on the side of a highway that is the super stop with dozens of people there as open targets. Sure, some random do-gooder could be armed, but maybe we'll need to implement armed security there too, and then all hotel lobbies, restaurants, the zoo, a public park, fucking beaches! Hell, pay phones used to be how we easily called people when we were away from our house, maybe instead we could have gun safes with a stockpile of weapons at these places so the average citizen could put on the cape and play hero if something happens. Why stop at schools. Mandate one adult in every house to own and carry a handgun at all times. Safety first!

Yep.  Hypothetically speaking, let's go ahead and arm the schools.  Maybe school shooting will happen less frequently, maybe not.  But if it does lessen school shootings, other public shootings would then rise.  So now you have more guns, and the same amount of shootings, just in different places.  Someone with a gun and an urge to kill is gonna kill, and they're going to look for the easiest target.  More guns is not the solution.

I've posted this before, but:

PROBLEM: Shark attacks are on the rise.

SOLUTIONS:
Australia:  Let's put up safety nets to prevent sharks from getting to close to beachgoers.
USA: Everyone buy a shark to protect you from the other sharks!

Sounds ridiculous, no?

mace1229 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Mace and Power...

I offered some pieces of potential legislation a few posts back. Would you be in favour of them?

"Off the top of my head and specifically to this problem... change needs to be the outright stoppage of AR15 sales (and any similar weapon)... the banning of high capacity magazines... a buy back program... a registry for any 'grandfathered' AR15... restricted ammunition sales... and harsh penalties for anyone breaching the aforementioned items."
Is what you're referring to?

I would have different suggestions. Buyback would be very expensive. Many would cost $1000 or more, times how many millions are out there? And as said, there's already millions, a "grandfathered" AR would still make it very easy to get.

I don't see the need to ban assault rifles if they are made to function like any other rifle. These mass shootings with assault rifles would only have a fraction of the damage if they had fixed magazines with a capacity of 5. That would make it no more deadly than hundreds of other rifles out there, and if someone wants to use it to hunt or target practice, then fine. If someone likes having a pistol grip, fine, but its on a gun with fixed magazine of 5 rounds.
I have no interest in assault rifles myself, I own none. Every rifle I own is either bolt action, lever action, a .22, or black powder. So I am not 100% familiar with the design of an assault rifle, but I believe I know enough to assume changing the feeding mechanism to a fixed magazine is not something terribly difficult or expensive. Even have the government offer a $75 rebate to cover costs on every gun this is done to (and will be far cheaper than a buyback). Give owners 1 year to comply, and if they are caught without a fixed magazine after that year it is confiscated without reimbursement and a stiff fine/penalty on top.
That's not the only change I'd support, but with respect to specificially assault rifles I think that would address that issue. 

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Teachers got into teaching because they want to teach. They are not the people you want to train as ERT members to take down an active shooter.

Don't think for a second that the public wouldn't crucify a teacher in charge that makes a questionable decision to shoot some kid that is a threat. 

Asking for teachers to safeguard the schools (with some solid training) instead of addressing the root of the problem first is asinine. And... it's another 'reach' to try and preserve the status quo.

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Root of the problem lol you all are literally insane.
What problem has America EVER gotten to the root of?  
Logistically, a teacher can't stop a shooting but we can collectively as a society solve the logistics of poverty, mental health, and firearm proliferation in no time, eh?

Other countries have solved their gun violence problems. See Australia, Canada, Japan, etc. for the model.

And you missed my point which I probably never made very clear: dumping this problem on the shoulders of teachers who simply wish to teach is not right for countless reasons.

If that is the approach the US wants to take... then station trained soldiers in every school and have soldiers do soldierly duties on the homeland.

I know plenty of teachers that would gladly jump on the opportunity, especially if there was a pay incentive behind it...but I’m in TX, so...

This might be so... but it is still inappropriate.

Yeah and expressed those same sentiments 6 years ago when 20 little kids were slaughtered.
What's changed since then?  How high does the body count need to get before it becomes appropriate?

So put a f**king navy seal in the school then. Training the wierd art teacher to leave his shading lesson, run to the gun safe, grab the school gun, and make his way through the mayhem to deal with some f**king idiot is not the answer.

My gawd, RG. I know where you sit with this issue and I know you're hot under the collar, but you're not thinking clearly enough here in my mind.

riotgrl said:

PJPOWER said:

riotgrl said:

Schools already have these things - armed personnel, locked doors, metal detectors and it doesn't stop these shooters.  Instead of investing more money in things that treat symptoms, start treating the root causes.  I teach high school in a district that has 21 high schools.  Do you know how many psychologists my school has?  1 - for 2 high schools which means she treats roughly 3,000 kids.  We have 4 counselors at my school that see 600 kids each - for mental health issues, class scheduling, college visits, testing, etc. etc.    We have no school nurses to care for our kids.  We have no social workers - how do we help these kids that have no help at home??  I have 31 kids in each class so I see roughly 150 kids a day - how well do you think I get to know EACH of these kids?  Hardly at all yet, I am responsible for not just teaching them but making sure they are safe and that if they are having a mental health issue that i somehow catch it.  All of this costs money and I live in Kentucky which continues to vilify us teachers and take more and more money from these kids.  There are ways and gun control legislation should be part of the overall effort but you've got to invest in kids at these schools.  That means increasing taxes to help kids who may not belong to you but if you help them then you help all of of us to improve.  

Did this school have the metal detectors, locked doors, armed personnel?  It may have, but I have not seen that reported.  
I know these regulations vary district by district and state by state.  I agree with pretty much everything else you said.  
I gather by reading your post that you feel lack of mental health treatment is the root cause?

I think that mental health issues play a role for some shootings but I do not think that applies to every situation.  I am all for gun control, background checks, mental health checks, gun registries and whatever we can do to keep people safe.  The second amendment is only a part of the Constitution - what about the general welfare, the common good?

As a teacher, I am a nurturer and the teachers that I know that aren't super nurturing are the very ones that want to be armed and they are the last ones that I would trust to tote a gun around my school.  That includes the 4 security guards that we have, 2 of whom are retired cops.  I believe that those 2 carry guns on to campus even though they are not supposed to do so at my school because they are not SRO's (school resource officers).  Those two men worry me and they are trained to have guns.  I understand that we don't live in an ideal world and that many of you are for arming people in schools, metal detectors, fences, gates, guards, etc. to keep kids safe but really, as someone said previously, this is NOT a police state.  Our schools should be places for our children to grow, blossom, and generally a positive, safe space.  I get it, fixing all those things I mentioned earlier are most likely not going to happen, but Jesus, when are we going to put kids first?  The ignorant moron that is the governor of my state blames violent video games and rap music and everything but the slashing of education and social services that he is doing.  He wants prayer in the school (already is here) and Bible classes taught because he thinks that will magically make up for the problems of poverty.  These other countries ban guns but in my mind they have something we don't have in this country and that is concern for our fellow citizens (of course, I don't mean everyone).  When poor people are demonized rather than helped, well, then, we get compounded problems that feel insurmountable.

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

PJ_Soul said:

josevolution said:

I say install metal detectors or at least have security guards at all schools searching everyone entering the school ...

I think that is a horrific idea.

More horrific than 17 bodies?

and then what happens when you have the first student to be murdered by a teacher? "i thought he was reaching for a gun! it turned out it was just his protractor!"

HughFreakingDillon said:

the shit i've been reading on twitter this morning from the right. all of a sudden it's a mental health issue. for decades the republicans refuted any claim that mental illness was actually a problem. as soon as they figured out they could use it as an excuse to deflect from the gun problem, voila, all of a sudden they agree it's a problem. disgusting people.