America's Gun Violence

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  • josevolution
    josevolution Posts: 31,665
    rgambs said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    josevolution said:
    I say install metal detectors or at least have security guards at all schools searching everyone entering the school ...
    I think that is a horrific idea.
    More horrific than 17 bodies?
    Exactly let’s just ask those parents if they would of mind having their kids waiting in line to get into school safely and coming home alive , I’d say everyone of those families would sign up in a heartbeat 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,127
    josevolution said:
    So can anyone here propose on how to stop the shooters from entering the schools , I’m open to all ideas ...
    Our school district has (and I would recommend):
    all doors are locked and staff needs a picture ID to enter.  Each member swipes their id badge in front of the door...
    visitors need a photo id to enter the school.  Before visitors enter the school there is a rectangular shape on the door that you must put your id on, the id is then streamed onto the secretary's computer where they then match the person with a child in the school.
     Nurses office and main office are right next to the main office where visitors enter, that way visitors do not wander around the school.
    each classroom has a magnetic strip on the door frame, locks are locked and in the event of an emergency we simply remove the magnetic strip so we don't have to go into the hallway to lock our doors.
    It is mandatory in new jersey to have two emergency drills a month, sometimes we do a school evacuation (1200 students), fire drill, active shooter drill, lock down drill, etc.
    Our staff has had training with local pd on what to do in an active shooter situation and we all have actually participated in a live shooter drill when a police officer assumes the role of a shooter and uses blanks in their guns.
    we have one armed police officer in each school and police regularly patrol the perimiter of our school.


    whew.
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    rgambs said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    josevolution said:
    I say install metal detectors or at least have security guards at all schools searching everyone entering the school ...
    I think that is a horrific idea.
    More horrific than 17 bodies?
    You really believe that would have stopped him from killing 17 kids? A lot of things would have to go right. I think it's a fantasy that a teacher with a gun could stop school shootings. Many cops have been ambushed and killed lately, and a teacher would stand a chance? 

    Putting guns in the hands of teachers is just a distraction from the real problems. Don't fall for it.
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    mcgruff10 said:
    josevolution said:
    So can anyone here propose on how to stop the shooters from entering the schools , I’m open to all ideas ...
    Our school district has (and I would recommend):
    all doors are locked and staff needs a picture ID to enter.  Each member swipes their id badge in front of the door...
    visitors need a photo id to enter the school.  Before visitors enter the school there is a rectangular shape on the door that you must put your id on, the id is then streamed onto the secretary's computer where they then match the person with a child in the school.
     Nurses office and main office are right next to the main office where visitors enter, that way visitors do not wander around the school.
    each classroom has a magnetic strip on the door frame, locks are locked and in the event of an emergency we simply remove the magnetic strip so we don't have to go into the hallway to lock our doors.
    It is mandatory in new jersey to have two emergency drills a month, sometimes we do a school evacuation (1200 students), fire drill, active shooter drill, lock down drill, etc.
    Our staff has had training with local pd on what to do in an active shooter situation and we all have actually participated in a live shooter drill when a police officer assumes the role of a shooter and uses blanks in their guns.
    we have one armed police officer in each school and police regularly patrol the perimiter of our school.


    whew.
    It was awhile ago but didn't they have similar precautions in place at Sandy Hook? Honest question.
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,313
    Eighteen years of gun violence in U.S. schools, mapped - The Washington Post https://apple.news/A-j9vQDM4TseDgUJLkOw_hQ

    “These numbers may be low.”
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • josevolution
    josevolution Posts: 31,665
    The thing that sucks is these families have no one to turn too their kids will have been murdered in vain cause we all know after about a week this issue will go dormant and that is a tragedy !!
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • riotgrl
    riotgrl LOUISVILLE Posts: 1,895
    Schools already have these things - armed personnel, locked doors, metal detectors and it doesn't stop these shooters.  Instead of investing more money in things that treat symptoms, start treating the root causes.  I teach high school in a district that has 21 high schools.  Do you know how many psychologists my school has?  1 - for 2 high schools which means she treats roughly 3,000 kids.  We have 4 counselors at my school that see 600 kids each - for mental health issues, class scheduling, college visits, testing, etc. etc.    We have no school nurses to care for our kids.  We have no social workers - how do we help these kids that have no help at home??  I have 31 kids in each class so I see roughly 150 kids a day - how well do you think I get to know EACH of these kids?  Hardly at all yet, I am responsible for not just teaching them but making sure they are safe and that if they are having a mental health issue that i somehow catch it.  All of this costs money and I live in Kentucky which continues to vilify us teachers and take more and more money from these kids.  There are ways and gun control legislation should be part of the overall effort but you've got to invest in kids at these schools.  That means increasing taxes to help kids who may not belong to you but if you help them then you help all of of us to improve.  
    Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?

    Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...

    I AM MINE
  • josevolution
    josevolution Posts: 31,665
    riotgrl said:
    Schools already have these things - armed personnel, locked doors, metal detectors and it doesn't stop these shooters.  Instead of investing more money in things that treat symptoms, start treating the root causes.  I teach high school in a district that has 21 high schools.  Do you know how many psychologists my school has?  1 - for 2 high schools which means she treats roughly 3,000 kids.  We have 4 counselors at my school that see 600 kids each - for mental health issues, class scheduling, college visits, testing, etc. etc.    We have no school nurses to care for our kids.  We have no social workers - how do we help these kids that have no help at home??  I have 31 kids in each class so I see roughly 150 kids a day - how well do you think I get to know EACH of these kids?  Hardly at all yet, I am responsible for not just teaching them but making sure they are safe and that if they are having a mental health issue that i somehow catch it.  All of this costs money and I live in Kentucky which continues to vilify us teachers and take more and more money from these kids.  There are ways and gun control legislation should be part of the overall effort but you've got to invest in kids at these schools.  That means increasing taxes to help kids who may not belong to you but if you help them then you help all of of us to improve.  
    Good luck with that , with the Devos you will get nothing to help your problems , I’d say start by voting that spineless McConnell out of office ...
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    riotgrl said:
    Schools already have these things - armed personnel, locked doors, metal detectors and it doesn't stop these shooters.  Instead of investing more money in things that treat symptoms, start treating the root causes.  I teach high school in a district that has 21 high schools.  Do you know how many psychologists my school has?  1 - for 2 high schools which means she treats roughly 3,000 kids.  We have 4 counselors at my school that see 600 kids each - for mental health issues, class scheduling, college visits, testing, etc. etc.    We have no school nurses to care for our kids.  We have no social workers - how do we help these kids that have no help at home??  I have 31 kids in each class so I see roughly 150 kids a day - how well do you think I get to know EACH of these kids?  Hardly at all yet, I am responsible for not just teaching them but making sure they are safe and that if they are having a mental health issue that i somehow catch it.  All of this costs money and I live in Kentucky which continues to vilify us teachers and take more and more money from these kids.  There are ways and gun control legislation should be part of the overall effort but you've got to invest in kids at these schools.  That means increasing taxes to help kids who may not belong to you but if you help them then you help all of of us to improve.  
    Good post. 
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    edited February 2018
    riotgrl said:
    Schools already have these things - armed personnel, locked doors, metal detectors and it doesn't stop these shooters.  Instead of investing more money in things that treat symptoms, start treating the root causes.  I teach high school in a district that has 21 high schools.  Do you know how many psychologists my school has?  1 - for 2 high schools which means she treats roughly 3,000 kids.  We have 4 counselors at my school that see 600 kids each - for mental health issues, class scheduling, college visits, testing, etc. etc.    We have no school nurses to care for our kids.  We have no social workers - how do we help these kids that have no help at home??  I have 31 kids in each class so I see roughly 150 kids a day - how well do you think I get to know EACH of these kids?  Hardly at all yet, I am responsible for not just teaching them but making sure they are safe and that if they are having a mental health issue that i somehow catch it.  All of this costs money and I live in Kentucky which continues to vilify us teachers and take more and more money from these kids.  There are ways and gun control legislation should be part of the overall effort but you've got to invest in kids at these schools.  That means increasing taxes to help kids who may not belong to you but if you help them then you help all of of us to improve.  
    Did this school have the metal detectors, locked doors, armed personnel?  It may have, but I have not seen that reported.  
    I know these regulations vary district by district and state by state.  I agree with pretty much everything else you said.  
    I gather by reading your post that you feel lack of mental health treatment is the root cause?
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Teachers got into teaching because they want to teach. They are not the people you want to train as ERT members to take down an active shooter.

    Don't think for a second that the public wouldn't crucify a teacher in charge that makes a questionable decision to shoot some kid that is a threat. 

    Asking for teachers to safeguard the schools (with some solid training) instead of addressing the root of the problem first is asinine. And... it's another 'reach' to try and preserve the status quo.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    edited February 2018
    Root of the problem lol you all are literally insane.
    What problem has America EVER gotten to the root of?  
    Logistically, a teacher can't stop a shooting but we can collectively as a society solve the logistics of poverty, mental health, and firearm proliferation in no time, eh?

    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,692
    edited February 2018
    rgambs said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    josevolution said:
    I say install metal detectors or at least have security guards at all schools searching everyone entering the school ...
    I think that is a horrific idea.
    More horrific than 17 bodies?
    If considering the long term, wider consequences? Yeah, quite possibly. Obviously I'm not advocating for doing nothing. I'm advocating for solutions other than raising kids in a police state. That kind if thing will negatively impact society and won't reduce gun deaths in any case, so your emotional question is kind of moot. We want things to get better, Not worse in various ways.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    What's asinine is thinking that you can solve the very biggest problems that have plagued the human race since the dawn of civilization and taking precautions to save children's lives in the meantime is a distraction.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,692
    rgambs said:
    What's asinine is thinking that you can solve the very biggest problems that have plagued the human race since the dawn of civilization and taking precautions to save children's lives in the meantime is a distraction.
    :confused: All these mass shootings are a very American problem, not one that plagued all of mankind... Taking precautions is one thing. Searching children as they enter school and having metal detecotrs and highly controlled activity and armed guards walking around isn't the right solution. It's a sledgehammer solution that will not contribute positively to kids or society.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    If you follow this thread you know I am for gun control in every way.  I'm one of you, I'm not on the right or in the middle, I'm on the left with most of you.
    Our approach is failing hard.  We have done NOTHING to solve this problem and we are fools if we think persistence in our strategies is anything but folly.
    It's time to patch holes where we can and stop reaching for the moon only to go nowhere.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • josevolution
    josevolution Posts: 31,665
    Yep we all know exactly how this will play out , nothing will happen no new restrictions or laws will come about next thing you know it will be spring and will probably be debating the next massacre...so what’s says any of you yes or no ..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    josevolution said:
    Yep we all know exactly how this will play out , nothing will happen no new restrictions or laws will come about next thing you know it will be spring and will probably be debating the next massacre...so what’s says any of you yes or no ..
    That’s been the pattern...
  • josevolution
    josevolution Posts: 31,665
    PJ_Soul said:
    rgambs said:
    What's asinine is thinking that you can solve the very biggest problems that have plagued the human race since the dawn of civilization and taking precautions to save children's lives in the meantime is a distraction.
    :confused: All these mass shootings are a very American problem, not one that plagued all of mankind... Taking precautions is one thing. Searching children as they enter school and having metal detecotrs and highly controlled activity and armed guards walking around isn't the right solution. It's a sledgehammer solution that will not contribute positively to kids or society.
    Ok so in other words let’s just do nothing , see you guys back here again soon ..
    how many kids you think will be comfortable just walking back into this school that just got shot up ...
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    rgambs said:
    Root of the problem lol you all are literally insane.
    What problem has America EVER gotten to the root of?  
    Logistically, a teacher can't stop a shooting but we can collectively as a society solve the logistics of poverty, mental health, and firearm proliferation in no time, eh?

    Other countries have solved their gun violence problems. See Australia, Canada, Japan, etc. for the model.

    And you missed my point which I probably never made very clear: dumping this problem on the shoulders of teachers who simply wish to teach is not right for countless reasons.

    If that is the approach the US wants to take... then station trained soldiers in every school and have soldiers do soldierly duties on the homeland.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
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