America's Gun Violence

1…432433435437438…903

Comments

  • stuckinline
    stuckinline Posts: 3,407
  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,503
    PJPOWER said:
    tbergs said:
    Say we spend the billions necessary to make every school have armed security, that still leaves every other large public place or even one of those goddamn gas station on the side of a highway that is the super stop with dozens of people there as open targets. Sure, some random do-gooder could be armed, but maybe we'll need to implement armed security there too, and then all hotel lobbies, restaurants, the zoo, a public park, fucking beaches! Hell, pay phones used to be how we easily called people when we were away from our house, maybe instead we could have gun safes with a stockpile of weapons at these places so the average citizen could put on the cape and play hero if something happens. Why stop at schools. Mandate one adult in every house to own and carry a handgun at all times. Safety first!
    This seems like a bit of an exaggeration...My first and foremost concern is keeping our children safe while they are in school.  Private entities and households can make their own decisions as to proper safety protocols that fit their specific needs.  
    Right, but once you start the ball rolling, do you think it's going to stop? And again, as I mentioned earlier, where would you rather spend the billions, on a reactionary response or the root cause? Everything I keep hearing from you seems to be reaction. Nothing will be a quick solution, but starting now can save innumerable people 10 years from now. Kind of like how addressing environmental concerns now will save lives and the planet long after our generation is gone. The big picture. 
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • HesCalledDyer
    HesCalledDyer Maryland Posts: 16,501
    tbergs said:
    Say we spend the billions necessary to make every school have armed security, that still leaves every other large public place or even one of those goddamn gas station on the side of a highway that is the super stop with dozens of people there as open targets. Sure, some random do-gooder could be armed, but maybe we'll need to implement armed security there too, and then all hotel lobbies, restaurants, the zoo, a public park, fucking beaches! Hell, pay phones used to be how we easily called people when we were away from our house, maybe instead we could have gun safes with a stockpile of weapons at these places so the average citizen could put on the cape and play hero if something happens. Why stop at schools. Mandate one adult in every house to own and carry a handgun at all times. Safety first!
    Yep.  Hypothetically speaking, let's go ahead and arm the schools.  Maybe school shooting will happen less frequently, maybe not.  But if it does lessen school shootings, other public shootings would then rise.  So now you have more guns, and the same amount of shootings, just in different places.  Someone with a gun and an urge to kill is gonna kill, and they're going to look for the easiest target.  More guns is not the solution.

    I've posted this before, but:

    PROBLEM: Shark attacks are on the rise.

    SOLUTIONS:
    Australia:  Let's put up safety nets to prevent sharks from getting to close to beachgoers.
    USA: Everyone buy a shark to protect you from the other sharks!

    Sounds ridiculous, no?


    Star Lake 00 / Pittsburgh 03 / State College 03 / Bristow 03 / Cleveland 06 / Camden II 06 / DC 08 / Pittsburgh 13 / Baltimore 13 / Charlottesville 13 / Cincinnati 14 / St. Paul 14 / Hampton 16 / Wrigley I 16 / Wrigley II 16 / Baltimore 20 / Camden 22 / Baltimore 24 / Raleigh I 25 / Raleigh II 25 / Pittsburgh I 25
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    tbergs said:
    PJPOWER said:
    tbergs said:
    Say we spend the billions necessary to make every school have armed security, that still leaves every other large public place or even one of those goddamn gas station on the side of a highway that is the super stop with dozens of people there as open targets. Sure, some random do-gooder could be armed, but maybe we'll need to implement armed security there too, and then all hotel lobbies, restaurants, the zoo, a public park, fucking beaches! Hell, pay phones used to be how we easily called people when we were away from our house, maybe instead we could have gun safes with a stockpile of weapons at these places so the average citizen could put on the cape and play hero if something happens. Why stop at schools. Mandate one adult in every house to own and carry a handgun at all times. Safety first!
    This seems like a bit of an exaggeration...My first and foremost concern is keeping our children safe while they are in school.  Private entities and households can make their own decisions as to proper safety protocols that fit their specific needs.  
    Right, but once you start the ball rolling, do you think it's going to stop? And again, as I mentioned earlier, where would you rather spend the billions, on a reactionary response or the root cause? Everything I keep hearing from you seems to be reaction. Nothing will be a quick solution, but starting now can save innumerable people 10 years from now. Kind of like how addressing environmental concerns now will save lives and the planet long after our generation is gone. The big picture. 
    There are already billions being spent on gun control efforts, may want to check with Bloomberg on than.  Again, what I stated could be a temporary solution until you find fix the root problems.  If someone has cancer, do you not treat them while still trying to find a cure?
  • HesCalledDyer
    HesCalledDyer Maryland Posts: 16,501
    PJPOWER said:
    tbergs said:
    PJPOWER said:
    tbergs said:
    Say we spend the billions necessary to make every school have armed security, that still leaves every other large public place or even one of those goddamn gas station on the side of a highway that is the super stop with dozens of people there as open targets. Sure, some random do-gooder could be armed, but maybe we'll need to implement armed security there too, and then all hotel lobbies, restaurants, the zoo, a public park, fucking beaches! Hell, pay phones used to be how we easily called people when we were away from our house, maybe instead we could have gun safes with a stockpile of weapons at these places so the average citizen could put on the cape and play hero if something happens. Why stop at schools. Mandate one adult in every house to own and carry a handgun at all times. Safety first!
    This seems like a bit of an exaggeration...My first and foremost concern is keeping our children safe while they are in school.  Private entities and households can make their own decisions as to proper safety protocols that fit their specific needs.  
    Right, but once you start the ball rolling, do you think it's going to stop? And again, as I mentioned earlier, where would you rather spend the billions, on a reactionary response or the root cause? Everything I keep hearing from you seems to be reaction. Nothing will be a quick solution, but starting now can save innumerable people 10 years from now. Kind of like how addressing environmental concerns now will save lives and the planet long after our generation is gone. The big picture. 
    There are already billions being spent on gun control efforts, may want to check with Bloomberg on than.  Again, what I stated could be a temporary solution until you find fix the root problems.  If someone has cancer, do you not treat them while still trying to find a cure?
    You certainly don't give them more cancer...
    Star Lake 00 / Pittsburgh 03 / State College 03 / Bristow 03 / Cleveland 06 / Camden II 06 / DC 08 / Pittsburgh 13 / Baltimore 13 / Charlottesville 13 / Cincinnati 14 / St. Paul 14 / Hampton 16 / Wrigley I 16 / Wrigley II 16 / Baltimore 20 / Camden 22 / Baltimore 24 / Raleigh I 25 / Raleigh II 25 / Pittsburgh I 25
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    I cant help but to wonder if one of the "17 intelligence agencys" could have prevented the Nicolas Cruz Parkland school massacre when he facebook posted that he wanted to be a "professional school shooter" under the name "Nikolai Cruzoff"?

  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,503
    JC29856 said:
    I cant help but to wonder if one of the "17 intelligence agencys" could have prevented the Nicolas Cruz Parkland school massacre when he facebook posted that he wanted to be a "professional school shooter" under the name "Nikolai Cruzoff"?

    Good thing we have the government to blame for this incident, right? What was the excuse for Vegas? Oh yeah, how could the hotel staff not notice.

    Our fucking country is so stupid.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,503
    PJPOWER said:
    tbergs said:
    PJPOWER said:
    tbergs said:
    Say we spend the billions necessary to make every school have armed security, that still leaves every other large public place or even one of those goddamn gas station on the side of a highway that is the super stop with dozens of people there as open targets. Sure, some random do-gooder could be armed, but maybe we'll need to implement armed security there too, and then all hotel lobbies, restaurants, the zoo, a public park, fucking beaches! Hell, pay phones used to be how we easily called people when we were away from our house, maybe instead we could have gun safes with a stockpile of weapons at these places so the average citizen could put on the cape and play hero if something happens. Why stop at schools. Mandate one adult in every house to own and carry a handgun at all times. Safety first!
    This seems like a bit of an exaggeration...My first and foremost concern is keeping our children safe while they are in school.  Private entities and households can make their own decisions as to proper safety protocols that fit their specific needs.  
    Right, but once you start the ball rolling, do you think it's going to stop? And again, as I mentioned earlier, where would you rather spend the billions, on a reactionary response or the root cause? Everything I keep hearing from you seems to be reaction. Nothing will be a quick solution, but starting now can save innumerable people 10 years from now. Kind of like how addressing environmental concerns now will save lives and the planet long after our generation is gone. The big picture. 
    There are already billions being spent on gun control efforts, may want to check with Bloomberg on than.  Again, what I stated could be a temporary solution until you find fix the root problems.  If someone has cancer, do you not treat them while still trying to find a cure?
    Yeah, because they aren't allowed to touch the root cause they have to spend billions on band-aids that have already been torn off a few times and reapplied because the "parents" keep arguing over whether the wound needs healing help.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    HesCalledDyer said:
    PJPOWER said:
    tbergs said:
    PJPOWER said:
    tbergs said:
    Say we spend the billions necessary to make every school have armed security, that still leaves every other large public place or even one of those goddamn gas station on the side of a highway that is the super stop with dozens of people there as open targets. Sure, some random do-gooder could be armed, but maybe we'll need to implement armed security there too, and then all hotel lobbies, restaurants, the zoo, a public park, fucking beaches! Hell, pay phones used to be how we easily called people when we were away from our house, maybe instead we could have gun safes with a stockpile of weapons at these places so the average citizen could put on the cape and play hero if something happens. Why stop at schools. Mandate one adult in every house to own and carry a handgun at all times. Safety first!
    This seems like a bit of an exaggeration...My first and foremost concern is keeping our children safe while they are in school.  Private entities and households can make their own decisions as to proper safety protocols that fit their specific needs.  
    Right, but once you start the ball rolling, do you think it's going to stop? And again, as I mentioned earlier, where would you rather spend the billions, on a reactionary response or the root cause? Everything I keep hearing from you seems to be reaction. Nothing will be a quick solution, but starting now can save innumerable people 10 years from now. Kind of like how addressing environmental concerns now will save lives and the planet long after our generation is gone. The big picture. 
    There are already billions being spent on gun control efforts, may want to check with Bloomberg on than.  Again, what I stated could be a temporary solution until you find fix the root problems.  If someone has cancer, do you not treat them while still trying to find a cure?
    You certainly don't give them more cancer...
    You must be right and I must be wrong, happy now?  Now back to the people that are speaking reasonably and respectfully about the specific issue of school shootings.
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499

    tbergs said:
    PJPOWER said:
    tbergs said:
    PJPOWER said:
    tbergs said:
    Say we spend the billions necessary to make every school have armed security, that still leaves every other large public place or even one of those goddamn gas station on the side of a highway that is the super stop with dozens of people there as open targets. Sure, some random do-gooder could be armed, but maybe we'll need to implement armed security there too, and then all hotel lobbies, restaurants, the zoo, a public park, fucking beaches! Hell, pay phones used to be how we easily called people when we were away from our house, maybe instead we could have gun safes with a stockpile of weapons at these places so the average citizen could put on the cape and play hero if something happens. Why stop at schools. Mandate one adult in every house to own and carry a handgun at all times. Safety first!
    This seems like a bit of an exaggeration...My first and foremost concern is keeping our children safe while they are in school.  Private entities and households can make their own decisions as to proper safety protocols that fit their specific needs.  
    Right, but once you start the ball rolling, do you think it's going to stop? And again, as I mentioned earlier, where would you rather spend the billions, on a reactionary response or the root cause? Everything I keep hearing from you seems to be reaction. Nothing will be a quick solution, but starting now can save innumerable people 10 years from now. Kind of like how addressing environmental concerns now will save lives and the planet long after our generation is gone. The big picture. 
    There are already billions being spent on gun control efforts, may want to check with Bloomberg on than.  Again, what I stated could be a temporary solution until you find fix the root problems.  If someone has cancer, do you not treat them while still trying to find a cure?
    Yeah, because they aren't allowed to touch the root cause they have to spend billions on band-aids that have already been torn off a few times and reapplied because the "parents" keep arguing over whether the wound needs healing help.
    No argument from me here, that’s why the only way to implement something is probably going to be something that involves a lot of compromises.  And often ignoring the eccentrics that often shout the loudest.
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478

    \PJPOWER said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    Mace and Power...

    I offered some pieces of potential legislation a few posts back. Would you be in favour of them?
    You’re asking the wrong question.  It doesn’t matter what me or mace think.  The question is whether it is a realistic possibility in today’s political climate.  You have lobbying groups on both sides with a LOT of money backing them that you would have to somewhat satisfy to get any legislation passed.  If you wanted that type of legislation to take place, you would essentially have to first make those lobbying groups completely disappear (or at least one side)...and I do not think that is realistically going to happen any time soon.
    It's a legitimate question, why do you refuse to answer?

  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,203
    Not sure where this is but I think it is a hell of a deterrent. 

    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,503
    PJPOWER said:

    tbergs said:
    PJPOWER said:
    tbergs said:
    PJPOWER said:
    tbergs said:
    Say we spend the billions necessary to make every school have armed security, that still leaves every other large public place or even one of those goddamn gas station on the side of a highway that is the super stop with dozens of people there as open targets. Sure, some random do-gooder could be armed, but maybe we'll need to implement armed security there too, and then all hotel lobbies, restaurants, the zoo, a public park, fucking beaches! Hell, pay phones used to be how we easily called people when we were away from our house, maybe instead we could have gun safes with a stockpile of weapons at these places so the average citizen could put on the cape and play hero if something happens. Why stop at schools. Mandate one adult in every house to own and carry a handgun at all times. Safety first!
    This seems like a bit of an exaggeration...My first and foremost concern is keeping our children safe while they are in school.  Private entities and households can make their own decisions as to proper safety protocols that fit their specific needs.  
    Right, but once you start the ball rolling, do you think it's going to stop? And again, as I mentioned earlier, where would you rather spend the billions, on a reactionary response or the root cause? Everything I keep hearing from you seems to be reaction. Nothing will be a quick solution, but starting now can save innumerable people 10 years from now. Kind of like how addressing environmental concerns now will save lives and the planet long after our generation is gone. The big picture. 
    There are already billions being spent on gun control efforts, may want to check with Bloomberg on than.  Again, what I stated could be a temporary solution until you find fix the root problems.  If someone has cancer, do you not treat them while still trying to find a cure?
    Yeah, because they aren't allowed to touch the root cause they have to spend billions on band-aids that have already been torn off a few times and reapplied because the "parents" keep arguing over whether the wound needs healing help.
    No argument from me here, that’s why the only way to implement something is probably going to be something that involves a lot of compromises.  And often ignoring the eccentrics that often shout the loudest.
    Just looked it up for specific details and this is where that 4.5 billion went after Sandy Hook:

    •                $4 billion for the president’s proposal “to help keep 15,000 cops on the streets in cities and towns across the country.” (That is roughly $266,000 per police officer.)

    •                $20 million to “give states stronger incentives to make [relevant] data available [for background checks] … “$50 million for this purpose in FY2014”

    •                 “$14 million to help train 14,000 more police officers and other public and private personnel to respond to active shooter situations.”

    •                “$10 million for the Centers for Disease Control to conduct further research, including investigating the relationship between video games, media images, and violence.”

    •                $20 million to expand the National Violent Death Reporting System.

    •                $150 million to “put up to 1,000 new school resource officers and school counselors on the job.”

    It's ridiculous that this was considered gun control measures. It's amazing how inefficient our government can be or what concessions are made to get this type of money approved by both R's and D's.

    It's a hopeless situation...
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    dignin said:

    \PJPOWER said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    Mace and Power...

    I offered some pieces of potential legislation a few posts back. Would you be in favour of them?
    You’re asking the wrong question.  It doesn’t matter what me or mace think.  The question is whether it is a realistic possibility in today’s political climate.  You have lobbying groups on both sides with a LOT of money backing them that you would have to somewhat satisfy to get any legislation passed.  If you wanted that type of legislation to take place, you would essentially have to first make those lobbying groups completely disappear (or at least one side)...and I do not think that is realistically going to happen any time soon.
    It's a legitimate question, why do you refuse to answer?

    I did answer, I think it is an unrealistic approach in today’s political landscape.  I’m not even sure how such a thing could actually be reasonably implemented if it did become law.  Hell, individual states cannot even get that accomplished, let alone on a federal level.  
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    An arms race is never a good idea. 
  • HesCalledDyer
    HesCalledDyer Maryland Posts: 16,501
    PJPOWER said:
    HesCalledDyer said:
    PJPOWER said:
    tbergs said:
    PJPOWER said:
    tbergs said:
    Say we spend the billions necessary to make every school have armed security, that still leaves every other large public place or even one of those goddamn gas station on the side of a highway that is the super stop with dozens of people there as open targets. Sure, some random do-gooder could be armed, but maybe we'll need to implement armed security there too, and then all hotel lobbies, restaurants, the zoo, a public park, fucking beaches! Hell, pay phones used to be how we easily called people when we were away from our house, maybe instead we could have gun safes with a stockpile of weapons at these places so the average citizen could put on the cape and play hero if something happens. Why stop at schools. Mandate one adult in every house to own and carry a handgun at all times. Safety first!
    This seems like a bit of an exaggeration...My first and foremost concern is keeping our children safe while they are in school.  Private entities and households can make their own decisions as to proper safety protocols that fit their specific needs.  
    Right, but once you start the ball rolling, do you think it's going to stop? And again, as I mentioned earlier, where would you rather spend the billions, on a reactionary response or the root cause? Everything I keep hearing from you seems to be reaction. Nothing will be a quick solution, but starting now can save innumerable people 10 years from now. Kind of like how addressing environmental concerns now will save lives and the planet long after our generation is gone. The big picture. 
    There are already billions being spent on gun control efforts, may want to check with Bloomberg on than.  Again, what I stated could be a temporary solution until you find fix the root problems.  If someone has cancer, do you not treat them while still trying to find a cure?
    You certainly don't give them more cancer...
    You must be right and I must be wrong, happy now?  Now back to the people that are speaking reasonably and respectfully about the specific issue of school shootings.
    It's called an analogy, bud. 
    What have I said that's been unreasonable or disrespectful about the specific issue of school shootings?
    Star Lake 00 / Pittsburgh 03 / State College 03 / Bristow 03 / Cleveland 06 / Camden II 06 / DC 08 / Pittsburgh 13 / Baltimore 13 / Charlottesville 13 / Cincinnati 14 / St. Paul 14 / Hampton 16 / Wrigley I 16 / Wrigley II 16 / Baltimore 20 / Camden 22 / Baltimore 24 / Raleigh I 25 / Raleigh II 25 / Pittsburgh I 25
  • josevolution
    josevolution Posts: 32,117
    So can anyone here propose on how to stop the shooters from entering the schools , I’m open to all ideas ...
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    PJ_Soul said:
    josevolution said:
    I say install metal detectors or at least have security guards at all schools searching everyone entering the school ...
    I think that is a horrific idea.
    More horrific than 17 bodies?
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 10,039
    edited February 2018
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    Mace and Power...

    I offered some pieces of potential legislation a few posts back. Would you be in favour of them?
    "Off the top of my head and specifically to this problem... change needs to be the outright stoppage of AR15 sales (and any similar weapon)... the banning of high capacity magazines... a buy back program... a registry for any 'grandfathered' AR15... restricted ammunition sales... and harsh penalties for anyone breaching the aforementioned items."
    Is what you're referring to?

    I would have different suggestions. Buyback would be very expensive. Many would cost $1000 or more, times how many millions are out there? And as said, there's already millions, a "grandfathered" AR would still make it very easy to get.

    I don't see the need to ban assault rifles if they are made to function like any other rifle. These mass shootings with assault rifles would only have a fraction of the damage if they had fixed magazines with a capacity of 5. That would make it no more deadly than hundreds of other rifles out there, and if someone wants to use it to hunt or target practice, then fine. If someone likes having a pistol grip, fine, but its on a gun with fixed magazine of 5 rounds.
    I have no interest in assault rifles myself, I own none. Every rifle I own is either bolt action, lever action, a .22, or black powder. So I am not 100% familiar with the design of an assault rifle, but I believe I know enough to assume changing the feeding mechanism to a fixed magazine is not something terribly difficult or expensive. Even have the government offer a $75 rebate to cover costs on every gun this is done to (and will be far cheaper than a buyback). Give owners 1 year to comply, and if they are caught without a fixed magazine after that year it is confiscated without reimbursement and a stiff fine/penalty on top.
    That's not the only change I'd support, but with respect to specificially assault rifles I think that would address that issue. 
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Listen folks, I understand the reaction to the idea of teachers with guns, and I think giving every teacher a gun is a moronic idea that only morons (nobody here to my knowledge) propose.

    But, damnit, these are our fucking kids and even if Congress acted today to enact all the realistic gun reforms that are actually possible, they would still be exposed to this risk for at least a decade. 
    We have to DO something!

    I don't give a shit if my kid has to go to a school that isn't a field of daisies, I care that he comes home safe. 
    I may not send Simon to school at all, it fucks kids up enough without this bullshit.

    I'm hot.  I've had enough. I'm about to go full Mac and Charlie and go ensafen the schools.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
This discussion has been closed.

Categories