America's Gun Violence
Comments
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Yes, exactly.PJPOWER said:
That’s my thoughts. Not just getting them a second rate training, but as you said “rigorously vetted and trained”. I know that there are a lot of people against arming teachers, but this would be more akin to having more armed/tactically trained security personnel.rgambs said:
I don't really think that's going to be the result. I think if a few select teachers, like the football coach who acted quickly and selflessly, are armed they will have some opportunity to improve the safety in an event like this.Smellyman said:
A school shooting would just get more deadly not to mention accidental shootings and trigger happy peoplemy2hands said:100000000% against arming teachers
More guns is NOT the answer, otherwise this problem wouldn't exist here in the first place since this country is fucking LITTERED with guns
The problem is that getting the weapon out of safe storage and getting to the shooter is going to be difficult and it's not going to be as effective as having all teachers armed, which I think is a terrible idea. Most teachers are not and will never be capable of maintaining that responsibility safely and effectively.
I get the knee jerk reaction against more guns, but we have to be real here. Pandora is out of the jar, her ills and evils can't be put back and we are talking about kids lined up like rifle fodder. People say violence never solves anything, those people are dead wrong. Once violence is initiated, it becomes an immutable force, like gravity, that must be overcome. Violence, or better yet, the credible threat of violence, is usually the only thing that counters violence.
We can keep our achools well-stocked with thoughts and prayers and we can duck and cover all day, but body counts matter. Stopping this kid at 15 casualties instead of 17 because a rigorously vetted and trained security asset makes a world of difference to two families that get to hug their kids again.
“Five five, five against one”
Students can't be armed and security guards are expensive and they are the first targets in an attack. If the hero coach had that rigorous training and access to a pair of pistols, who kbiws what might have happened. Every school has teachers and coaches who are perfectly capable of taking on this role.
Hell, cops train for 6 months and we trust them completely. Let's use some serious cheddar to incentivize the right teachers to be highly trained security assets.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
I have already stated that I would be more willing to pay higher taxes for it if you would read my first comment. And nowhere did I say that you would have to stop the battle against guns if that is your mission. I believe quick neutralization is the answer. Hell, stun guns would be better than nothing...josevolution said:
5 to 10 million AR15’s in circulation at the moment , are you willing to pay more in taxes to fund these special programs to train teachers to be armed to protect their schools...PJPOWER said:
That’s my thoughts. Not just getting them a second rate training, but as you said “rigorously vetted and trained”. I know that there are a lot of people against arming teachers, but this would be more akin to having more armed/tactically trained security personnel.rgambs said:
I don't really think that's going to be the result. I think if a few select teachers, like the football coach who acted quickly and selflessly, are armed they will have some opportunity to improve the safety in an event like this.Smellyman said:
A school shooting would just get more deadly not to mention accidental shootings and trigger happy peoplemy2hands said:100000000% against arming teachers
More guns is NOT the answer, otherwise this problem wouldn't exist here in the first place since this country is fucking LITTERED with guns
The problem is that getting the weapon out of safe storage and getting to the shooter is going to be difficult and it's not going to be as effective as having all teachers armed, which I think is a terrible idea. Most teachers are not and will never be capable of maintaining that responsibility safely and effectively.
I get the knee jerk reaction against more guns, but we have to be real here. Pandora is out of the jar, her ills and evils can't be put back and we are talking about kids lined up like rifle fodder. People say violence never solves anything, those people are dead wrong. Once violence is initiated, it becomes an immutable force, like gravity, that must be overcome. Violence, or better yet, the credible threat of violence, is usually the only thing that counters violence.
We can keep our achools well-stocked with thoughts and prayers and we can duck and cover all day, but body counts matter. Stopping this kid at 15 casualties instead of 17 because a rigorously vetted and trained security asset makes a world of difference to two families that get to hug their kids again.
“Five five, five against one”
So you believe more people armed is the answer ?0 -
A fair point, let's get some Tasers in the school's, locked up and used by trained teachers of course.
School safety measures are the same as gun control on the streets. Half the the things you do are unlikely to make an impact and a fair portion relies on luck, BUT WE HAVE TO DO WHATEVER WE CAN TO TRY!!! Inefficiency, cost, minor rights being infringed, none of those are excuses to do nothing. This is a tragic epidemic and we need to try something.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
What about the 5 to 10 million AR15’s in circulation what is your answer to this huge problem ?PJPOWER said:
I have already stated that I would be more willing to pay higher taxes for it if you would read my first comment. And nowhere did I say that you would have to stop the battle against guns if that is your mission. I believe quick neutralization is the answer. Hell, stun guns would be better than nothing...josevolution said:
5 to 10 million AR15’s in circulation at the moment , are you willing to pay more in taxes to fund these special programs to train teachers to be armed to protect their schools...PJPOWER said:
That’s my thoughts. Not just getting them a second rate training, but as you said “rigorously vetted and trained”. I know that there are a lot of people against arming teachers, but this would be more akin to having more armed/tactically trained security personnel.rgambs said:
I don't really think that's going to be the result. I think if a few select teachers, like the football coach who acted quickly and selflessly, are armed they will have some opportunity to improve the safety in an event like this.Smellyman said:
A school shooting would just get more deadly not to mention accidental shootings and trigger happy peoplemy2hands said:100000000% against arming teachers
More guns is NOT the answer, otherwise this problem wouldn't exist here in the first place since this country is fucking LITTERED with guns
The problem is that getting the weapon out of safe storage and getting to the shooter is going to be difficult and it's not going to be as effective as having all teachers armed, which I think is a terrible idea. Most teachers are not and will never be capable of maintaining that responsibility safely and effectively.
I get the knee jerk reaction against more guns, but we have to be real here. Pandora is out of the jar, her ills and evils can't be put back and we are talking about kids lined up like rifle fodder. People say violence never solves anything, those people are dead wrong. Once violence is initiated, it becomes an immutable force, like gravity, that must be overcome. Violence, or better yet, the credible threat of violence, is usually the only thing that counters violence.
We can keep our achools well-stocked with thoughts and prayers and we can duck and cover all day, but body counts matter. Stopping this kid at 15 casualties instead of 17 because a rigorously vetted and trained security asset makes a world of difference to two families that get to hug their kids again.
“Five five, five against one”
So you believe more people armed is the answer ?jesus greets me looks just like me ....0 -
That’s the point, I don’t have a solution to that problem other than meeting someone with overwhelming force if someone tries to bring one into a school. My post was specifically about school shootings.josevolution said:
What about the 5 to 10 million AR15’s in circulation what is your answer to this huge problem ?PJPOWER said:
I have already stated that I would be more willing to pay higher taxes for it if you would read my first comment. And nowhere did I say that you would have to stop the battle against guns if that is your mission. I believe quick neutralization is the answer. Hell, stun guns would be better than nothing...josevolution said:
5 to 10 million AR15’s in circulation at the moment , are you willing to pay more in taxes to fund these special programs to train teachers to be armed to protect their schools...PJPOWER said:
That’s my thoughts. Not just getting them a second rate training, but as you said “rigorously vetted and trained”. I know that there are a lot of people against arming teachers, but this would be more akin to having more armed/tactically trained security personnel.rgambs said:
I don't really think that's going to be the result. I think if a few select teachers, like the football coach who acted quickly and selflessly, are armed they will have some opportunity to improve the safety in an event like this.Smellyman said:
A school shooting would just get more deadly not to mention accidental shootings and trigger happy peoplemy2hands said:100000000% against arming teachers
More guns is NOT the answer, otherwise this problem wouldn't exist here in the first place since this country is fucking LITTERED with guns
The problem is that getting the weapon out of safe storage and getting to the shooter is going to be difficult and it's not going to be as effective as having all teachers armed, which I think is a terrible idea. Most teachers are not and will never be capable of maintaining that responsibility safely and effectively.
I get the knee jerk reaction against more guns, but we have to be real here. Pandora is out of the jar, her ills and evils can't be put back and we are talking about kids lined up like rifle fodder. People say violence never solves anything, those people are dead wrong. Once violence is initiated, it becomes an immutable force, like gravity, that must be overcome. Violence, or better yet, the credible threat of violence, is usually the only thing that counters violence.
We can keep our achools well-stocked with thoughts and prayers and we can duck and cover all day, but body counts matter. Stopping this kid at 15 casualties instead of 17 because a rigorously vetted and trained security asset makes a world of difference to two families that get to hug their kids again.
“Five five, five against one”
So you believe more people armed is the answer ?0 -
more guns is always the answer to the right
0 -
Not a terrible idea. I could see maybe 5 or 6 in my school out of 100 teachers being able to do this.rgambs said:A fair point, let's get some Tasers in the school's, locked up and used by trained teachers of course.
School safety measures are the same as gun control on the streets. Half the the things you do are unlikely to make an impact and a fair portion relies on luck, BUT WE HAVE TO DO WHATEVER WE CAN TO TRY!!! Inefficiency, cost, minor rights being infringed, none of those are excuses to do nothing. This is a tragic epidemic and we need to try something.I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
Well that’s where I wanna start ban these weapons and then I’ll listen to your ideas ...PJPOWER said:
That’s the point, I don’t have a solution to that problem other than meeting someone with overwhelming force if someone tries to bring one into a school. My post was specifically about school shootings.josevolution said:
What about the 5 to 10 million AR15’s in circulation what is your answer to this huge problem ?PJPOWER said:
I have already stated that I would be more willing to pay higher taxes for it if you would read my first comment. And nowhere did I say that you would have to stop the battle against guns if that is your mission. I believe quick neutralization is the answer. Hell, stun guns would be better than nothing...josevolution said:
5 to 10 million AR15’s in circulation at the moment , are you willing to pay more in taxes to fund these special programs to train teachers to be armed to protect their schools...PJPOWER said:
That’s my thoughts. Not just getting them a second rate training, but as you said “rigorously vetted and trained”. I know that there are a lot of people against arming teachers, but this would be more akin to having more armed/tactically trained security personnel.rgambs said:
I don't really think that's going to be the result. I think if a few select teachers, like the football coach who acted quickly and selflessly, are armed they will have some opportunity to improve the safety in an event like this.Smellyman said:
A school shooting would just get more deadly not to mention accidental shootings and trigger happy peoplemy2hands said:100000000% against arming teachers
More guns is NOT the answer, otherwise this problem wouldn't exist here in the first place since this country is fucking LITTERED with guns
The problem is that getting the weapon out of safe storage and getting to the shooter is going to be difficult and it's not going to be as effective as having all teachers armed, which I think is a terrible idea. Most teachers are not and will never be capable of maintaining that responsibility safely and effectively.
I get the knee jerk reaction against more guns, but we have to be real here. Pandora is out of the jar, her ills and evils can't be put back and we are talking about kids lined up like rifle fodder. People say violence never solves anything, those people are dead wrong. Once violence is initiated, it becomes an immutable force, like gravity, that must be overcome. Violence, or better yet, the credible threat of violence, is usually the only thing that counters violence.
We can keep our achools well-stocked with thoughts and prayers and we can duck and cover all day, but body counts matter. Stopping this kid at 15 casualties instead of 17 because a rigorously vetted and trained security asset makes a world of difference to two families that get to hug their kids again.
“Five five, five against one”
So you believe more people armed is the answer ?jesus greets me looks just like me ....0 -
It’s a logical “common sense” approach that is politically tenable. Of course you are going to have the “more guns is not the answer” crowd spewing that talking point, but in *almost every one of these situations, once they were met with force, they blew their own brains out. They rarely want to face the realities of getting caught (not to say that is always the case).mcgruff10 said:
Not a terrible idea. I could see maybe 5 or 6 in my school out of 100 teachers being able to do this.rgambs said:A fair point, let's get some Tasers in the school's, locked up and used by trained teachers of course.
School safety measures are the same as gun control on the streets. Half the the things you do are unlikely to make an impact and a fair portion relies on luck, BUT WE HAVE TO DO WHATEVER WE CAN TO TRY!!! Inefficiency, cost, minor rights being infringed, none of those are excuses to do nothing. This is a tragic epidemic and we need to try something.0 -
You are way more patient than I am. I would rather consider multiple options as “banning” things seems like it is going to take a while...It has been stated that the lobbying groups are what are controlling politicians. That just reality in today’s political landscape. Therefore, let’s do something that the NRA will let pass as well as teachers unions. This approach does not threaten anyone’s “rights” and has the potential of dramatically changing the outcome of these specific events (school shootings).josevolution said:
Well that’s where I wanna start ban these weapons and then I’ll listen to your ideas ...PJPOWER said:
That’s the point, I don’t have a solution to that problem other than meeting someone with overwhelming force if someone tries to bring one into a school. My post was specifically about school shootings.josevolution said:
What about the 5 to 10 million AR15’s in circulation what is your answer to this huge problem ?PJPOWER said:
I have already stated that I would be more willing to pay higher taxes for it if you would read my first comment. And nowhere did I say that you would have to stop the battle against guns if that is your mission. I believe quick neutralization is the answer. Hell, stun guns would be better than nothing...josevolution said:
5 to 10 million AR15’s in circulation at the moment , are you willing to pay more in taxes to fund these special programs to train teachers to be armed to protect their schools...PJPOWER said:
That’s my thoughts. Not just getting them a second rate training, but as you said “rigorously vetted and trained”. I know that there are a lot of people against arming teachers, but this would be more akin to having more armed/tactically trained security personnel.rgambs said:
I don't really think that's going to be the result. I think if a few select teachers, like the football coach who acted quickly and selflessly, are armed they will have some opportunity to improve the safety in an event like this.Smellyman said:
A school shooting would just get more deadly not to mention accidental shootings and trigger happy peoplemy2hands said:100000000% against arming teachers
More guns is NOT the answer, otherwise this problem wouldn't exist here in the first place since this country is fucking LITTERED with guns
The problem is that getting the weapon out of safe storage and getting to the shooter is going to be difficult and it's not going to be as effective as having all teachers armed, which I think is a terrible idea. Most teachers are not and will never be capable of maintaining that responsibility safely and effectively.
I get the knee jerk reaction against more guns, but we have to be real here. Pandora is out of the jar, her ills and evils can't be put back and we are talking about kids lined up like rifle fodder. People say violence never solves anything, those people are dead wrong. Once violence is initiated, it becomes an immutable force, like gravity, that must be overcome. Violence, or better yet, the credible threat of violence, is usually the only thing that counters violence.
We can keep our achools well-stocked with thoughts and prayers and we can duck and cover all day, but body counts matter. Stopping this kid at 15 casualties instead of 17 because a rigorously vetted and trained security asset makes a world of difference to two families that get to hug their kids again.
“Five five, five against one”
So you believe more people armed is the answer ?
If the death toll of our children is decreased in these situations, we all win, right? Not to say don’t keep up good fight of banning things, but until that happens...let’s fight these fucktards. We have armed security in so many other places for a reason...0 -
Your solution still let’s the gunman get into the facility where he wants to commit such crimePJPOWER said:
You are way more patient than I am. I would rather consider multiple options as “banning” things seems like it is going to take a while...It has been stated that the lobbying groups are what are controlling politicians. That just reality in today’s political landscape. Therefore, let’s do something that the NRA will let pass as well as teachers unions. This approach does not threaten anyone’s “rights” and has the potential of dramatically changing the outcome of these specific events (school shootings).josevolution said:
Well that’s where I wanna start ban these weapons and then I’ll listen to your ideas ...PJPOWER said:
That’s the point, I don’t have a solution to that problem other than meeting someone with overwhelming force if someone tries to bring one into a school. My post was specifically about school shootings.josevolution said:
What about the 5 to 10 million AR15’s in circulation what is your answer to this huge problem ?PJPOWER said:
I have already stated that I would be more willing to pay higher taxes for it if you would read my first comment. And nowhere did I say that you would have to stop the battle against guns if that is your mission. I believe quick neutralization is the answer. Hell, stun guns would be better than nothing...josevolution said:
5 to 10 million AR15’s in circulation at the moment , are you willing to pay more in taxes to fund these special programs to train teachers to be armed to protect their schools...PJPOWER said:
That’s my thoughts. Not just getting them a second rate training, but as you said “rigorously vetted and trained”. I know that there are a lot of people against arming teachers, but this would be more akin to having more armed/tactically trained security personnel.rgambs said:
I don't really think that's going to be the result. I think if a few select teachers, like the football coach who acted quickly and selflessly, are armed they will have some opportunity to improve the safety in an event like this.Smellyman said:
A school shooting would just get more deadly not to mention accidental shootings and trigger happy peoplemy2hands said:100000000% against arming teachers
More guns is NOT the answer, otherwise this problem wouldn't exist here in the first place since this country is fucking LITTERED with guns
The problem is that getting the weapon out of safe storage and getting to the shooter is going to be difficult and it's not going to be as effective as having all teachers armed, which I think is a terrible idea. Most teachers are not and will never be capable of maintaining that responsibility safely and effectively.
I get the knee jerk reaction against more guns, but we have to be real here. Pandora is out of the jar, her ills and evils can't be put back and we are talking about kids lined up like rifle fodder. People say violence never solves anything, those people are dead wrong. Once violence is initiated, it becomes an immutable force, like gravity, that must be overcome. Violence, or better yet, the credible threat of violence, is usually the only thing that counters violence.
We can keep our achools well-stocked with thoughts and prayers and we can duck and cover all day, but body counts matter. Stopping this kid at 15 casualties instead of 17 because a rigorously vetted and trained security asset makes a world of difference to two families that get to hug their kids again.
“Five five, five against one”
So you believe more people armed is the answer ?
If the death toll of our children is decreased in these situations, we all win, right? Not to say don’t keep up good fight of banning things, but until that happens...let’s fight these fucktards. We have armed security in so many other places for a reason...jesus greets me looks just like me ....0 -
I say install metal detectors or at least have security guards at all schools searching everyone entering the school ...jesus greets me looks just like me ....0
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Hey, that would work too, but it would sure be a disruption to daily education. Imagine the long lines and tardy slips for kiddos getting to class late. Not to mention, they would all pretty much be sitting ducks in that line waiting to get through the security checkpoints.josevolution said:I say install metal detectors or at least have security guards at all schools searching everyone entering the school ...0 -
But it also greatly reduced the incentive of the gunman. If they want a body count and know that their abilit to achieve that could be hindered by someone with equal or greater force...the hope is that they decide that they cannot carry out the rampage in the first place.josevolution said:
Your solution still let’s the gunman get into the facility where he wants to commit such crimePJPOWER said:
You are way more patient than I am. I would rather consider multiple options as “banning” things seems like it is going to take a while...It has been stated that the lobbying groups are what are controlling politicians. That just reality in today’s political landscape. Therefore, let’s do something that the NRA will let pass as well as teachers unions. This approach does not threaten anyone’s “rights” and has the potential of dramatically changing the outcome of these specific events (school shootings).josevolution said:
Well that’s where I wanna start ban these weapons and then I’ll listen to your ideas ...PJPOWER said:
That’s the point, I don’t have a solution to that problem other than meeting someone with overwhelming force if someone tries to bring one into a school. My post was specifically about school shootings.josevolution said:
What about the 5 to 10 million AR15’s in circulation what is your answer to this huge problem ?PJPOWER said:
I have already stated that I would be more willing to pay higher taxes for it if you would read my first comment. And nowhere did I say that you would have to stop the battle against guns if that is your mission. I believe quick neutralization is the answer. Hell, stun guns would be better than nothing...josevolution said:
5 to 10 million AR15’s in circulation at the moment , are you willing to pay more in taxes to fund these special programs to train teachers to be armed to protect their schools...PJPOWER said:
That’s my thoughts. Not just getting them a second rate training, but as you said “rigorously vetted and trained”. I know that there are a lot of people against arming teachers, but this would be more akin to having more armed/tactically trained security personnel.rgambs said:
I don't really think that's going to be the result. I think if a few select teachers, like the football coach who acted quickly and selflessly, are armed they will have some opportunity to improve the safety in an event like this.Smellyman said:
A school shooting would just get more deadly not to mention accidental shootings and trigger happy peoplemy2hands said:100000000% against arming teachers
More guns is NOT the answer, otherwise this problem wouldn't exist here in the first place since this country is fucking LITTERED with guns
The problem is that getting the weapon out of safe storage and getting to the shooter is going to be difficult and it's not going to be as effective as having all teachers armed, which I think is a terrible idea. Most teachers are not and will never be capable of maintaining that responsibility safely and effectively.
I get the knee jerk reaction against more guns, but we have to be real here. Pandora is out of the jar, her ills and evils can't be put back and we are talking about kids lined up like rifle fodder. People say violence never solves anything, those people are dead wrong. Once violence is initiated, it becomes an immutable force, like gravity, that must be overcome. Violence, or better yet, the credible threat of violence, is usually the only thing that counters violence.
We can keep our achools well-stocked with thoughts and prayers and we can duck and cover all day, but body counts matter. Stopping this kid at 15 casualties instead of 17 because a rigorously vetted and trained security asset makes a world of difference to two families that get to hug their kids again.
“Five five, five against one”
So you believe more people armed is the answer ?
If the death toll of our children is decreased in these situations, we all win, right? Not to say don’t keep up good fight of banning things, but until that happens...let’s fight these fucktards. We have armed security in so many other places for a reason...0 -
I bet if you asked every parent would they mind waiting for their kids to get thru security to get to classes they would sign up immediately as long as they get to welcome that kid back home after school , did you not see that mother pleading to have metal detectors installed?PJPOWER said:
Hey, that would work too, but it would sure be a disruption to daily education. Imagine the long lines and tardy slips for kiddos getting to class late. Not to mention, they would all pretty much be sitting ducks in that line waiting to get through the security checkpoints.josevolution said:I say install metal detectors or at least have security guards at all schools searching everyone entering the school ...jesus greets me looks just like me ....0 -
Disruptions really ? Just think about the 17 families that have had their lives disrupted for ever ...jesus greets me looks just like me ....0
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So what happens when someone finds a way through the checkpoints or finds a way through another entrance? I guess you could set it up like a prison with razor wire fences, etc, but we also want to minimize disruption to daily school function so that the students can get to class and start learning as quick as possible. It could take hours to screen every student at some of the larger schools.josevolution said:
I bet if you asked every parent would they mind waiting for their kids to get thru security to get to classes they would sign up immediately as long as they get to welcome that kid back home after school , did you not see that mother pleading to have metal detectors installed?PJPOWER said:
Hey, that would work too, but it would sure be a disruption to daily education. Imagine the long lines and tardy slips for kiddos getting to class late. Not to mention, they would all pretty much be sitting ducks in that line waiting to get through the security checkpoints.josevolution said:I say install metal detectors or at least have security guards at all schools searching everyone entering the school ...
And again, what about the sitting ducks standing in line waiting to get into the secure environment?
Logistically, it just does not seem feasible to me, but that’s just my opinion.Post edited by PJPOWER on0 -
Arming teachers is the dumbest thing I may have read on here. And a complete sideshow.0
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i will never understand how so many people are fascinated by firearms. a very solid reminder of the contrasts in our society. i've shot before and found it to be pretty boring and seemingly purposeless. the munitions pollute the soil. the act itself is unsafe. people really like these things. maybe someone can explain it?0
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There are some reasonable short term responses to the growing problem. I won't call them solutions because they are not.
Off the top of my head and specifically to this problem... change needs to be the outright stoppage of AR15 sales (and any similar weapon)... the banning of high capacity magazines... a buy back program... a registry for any 'grandfathered' AR15... restricted ammunition sales... and harsh penalties for anyone breaching the aforementioned items.
Reform also needs to occur in the licensing component."My brain's a good brain!"0
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