America's Gun Violence
Comments
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I think it was a very valid question. I have not blown off gun violence. I have stated many times I am for more gun control. Yes, I've said some forms of gun control don;t make sense to me, but a lot of them do.
Its a valid question to me because if there have been 11 shootings at school involving students while attending school and I havent heard of a single one of them, that is very shocking and disturbing to me the it really has become this normalized.
But if it was some gang related shooting that happened at 2 AM that was in a school parking lot, but some media sources are selling it as a "School schooting" then that is just annoying to me to have such misleading headlines. How was no one injured? Was it a college campus in the south where everyone owns guns and some idiot kid thought target shooting on an empty field at the back of campus was okay? And then the media labels that as a school shooting too? I have no idea, because like I said I found very minimal information.
Thus the reason I asked for clarification.
I was asked for a link and I provided one. I asked for clarification to some statements and get none, and that means I am minimizing the topic.
okay.... I think I'm with PJ on this one, it takes me a month of not reading this forum to forget why this discussion is meaningless.0 -
I completely agree with you. IF the media mischaracterizes a gun incident as a school shooting for no other reason than to sensationalize it based on the location of where a gun was fired to further an agenda or to get clicks on a website, it takes away from meaningful discussion, and gives credence to the folks against gun legislation that people are overblowing gun violence in the US.mace1229 said:I think it was a very valid question. I have not blown off gun violence. I have stated many times I am for more gun control. Yes, I've said some forms of gun control don;t make sense to me, but a lot of them do.
Its a valid question to me because if there have been 11 shootings at school involving students while attending school and I havent heard of a single one of them, that is very shocking and disturbing to me the it really has become this normalized.
But if it was some gang related shooting that happened at 2 AM that was in a school parking lot, but some media sources are selling it as a "School schooting" then that is just annoying to me to have such misleading headlines. How was no one injured? Was it a college campus in the south where everyone owns guns and some idiot kid thought target shooting on an empty field at the back of campus was okay? And then the media labels that as a school shooting too? I have no idea, because like I said I found very minimal information.
Thus the reason I asked for clarification.
I was asked for a link and I provided one. I asked for clarification to some statements and get none, and that means I am minimizing the topic.
okay.... I think I'm with PJ on this one, it takes me a month of not reading this forum to forget why this discussion is meaningless.
there is nothing wrong with asking for clarification given our current media hysteria surrounding pretty much every hot button issue.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
so from the nytimes article it states:
Some of the shootings at schools this year were suicides that injured no one else; some did not result in any injuries at all.
So to me the title of the article is definitely misleading. mace I asked the same question you asked...how could this be 11 already? I don't remember seeing or reading about any of the other ten.I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
Some details on the 11 shootings at schools, including colleges, or school-related settings (one involved a school bus).
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/01/24/u-s-schools-have-already-faced-11-shooting-incidents-this-year_a_23342363/?utm_hp_ref=ca-homepage
The term "school shooting" is defined in the article. The title of the HuffPo article uses the term "shootings incidents".
By my count, 3 died when shot by another person, 2 additional people died by suicide, 17 people were injured.
On several occasions, shots were fired but no one was hit. To those saying that the NY Times article was "misleading", it seems you are saying that if no one got hit it doesn't count. Seriously? If it was your kid shot at, you would brush it off, just because he or she didn't get hit? And if another kid in your kid's class commits suicide at school, that isn't significant enough to be concerned about?
And as for "don't remember seeing or reading about the other 10" - doesn't mean they didn't happen. It means you either missed it, or the news didn't even cover it. Why would they? School shootings are commonplace these days, barely news at all, unless the body count is high.my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0 -
Glad this is cleared up.
Guns rule! Woot!
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Prevalence of dismisssl. Responsible gun owners until they’re not. Hey, but some kid shooting on a athletic field in a state where everyone has a gun? It’s okay man, just look both ways before you cross the pitch. That’s how ridiculous it’s gotten. Well, if only one kid shoots himself at school it’s not really a “school shooting.” God forbid any of you pro gunners or a member of your family or a friend have to experience the carnage personally.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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I never dismissed anything or said it didn't happen. I simply asked if anyone knew details, and that was it. Those thoughts were put in my mouth when I never said anything close to that. I was legitimately curious and interested about the details, and by doing so all sorts of words were put in my mouth (and not the first time either).oftenreading said:Some details on the 11 shootings at schools, including colleges, or school-related settings (one involved a school bus).
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/01/24/u-s-schools-have-already-faced-11-shooting-incidents-this-year_a_23342363/?utm_hp_ref=ca-homepage
The term "school shooting" is defined in the article. The title of the HuffPo article uses the term "shootings incidents".
By my count, 3 died when shot by another person, 2 additional people died by suicide, 17 people were injured.
On several occasions, shots were fired but no one was hit. To those saying that the NY Times article was "misleading", it seems you are saying that if no one got hit it doesn't count. Seriously? If it was your kid shot at, you would brush it off, just because he or she didn't get hit? And if another kid in your kid's class commits suicide at school, that isn't significant enough to be concerned about?
And as for "don't remember seeing or reading about the other 10" - doesn't mean they didn't happen. It means you either missed it, or the news didn't even cover it. Why would they? School shootings are commonplace these days, barely news at all, unless the body count is high.
I think a shooting during school hours is very serious, and I would be pissed if my son was or wasn't there. A kid shooting himself during school hours is devastating, not only to the victim's family but anyone who witnessed it.
I asked for more info because I wanted to know why these were not bigger news.
After reading that article is is clear that the number is inflated.
At least one involved a pellet gun. At least one was an accidental discharge during training, Here's the kicker, one was an incident at a former school that has been closed down at least all year prior to the incident.
And I'm not saying I wouldnt classify the others as a school shooting, but reading the details of each case I am not surprised it wasn't bigger news.
So yes, it is clear that to claim there have been more shootings than school days does seem inflated.
That does not mean I don;t think we should not try to prevent any of those, or that I defend someone using a bb gun at a school bus. It just means I think classifying a suicide on a property that is no longer a school as a "school shooting" is misleading and trying to push an agenda just as hard as you think the NRA tries to push theirs.
So yes, lets help prevent/reduce the number of gun suicides at school and everywhere else, lets prevent drive-bys from shooting out school windows, lets prevent college kids from carrying weapons into their dorms. Lets do all that. I can say the media is misleading and still believe that.0 -
mace1229 said:
I never dismissed anything or said it didn't happen. I simply asked if anyone knew details, and that was it. Those thoughts were put in my mouth when I never said anything close to that. I was legitimately curious and interested about the details, and by doing so all sorts of words were put in my mouth (and not the first time either).oftenreading said:Some details on the 11 shootings at schools, including colleges, or school-related settings (one involved a school bus).
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/01/24/u-s-schools-have-already-faced-11-shooting-incidents-this-year_a_23342363/?utm_hp_ref=ca-homepage
The term "school shooting" is defined in the article. The title of the HuffPo article uses the term "shootings incidents".
By my count, 3 died when shot by another person, 2 additional people died by suicide, 17 people were injured.
On several occasions, shots were fired but no one was hit. To those saying that the NY Times article was "misleading", it seems you are saying that if no one got hit it doesn't count. Seriously? If it was your kid shot at, you would brush it off, just because he or she didn't get hit? And if another kid in your kid's class commits suicide at school, that isn't significant enough to be concerned about?
And as for "don't remember seeing or reading about the other 10" - doesn't mean they didn't happen. It means you either missed it, or the news didn't even cover it. Why would they? School shootings are commonplace these days, barely news at all, unless the body count is high.
I think a shooting during school hours is very serious, and I would be pissed if my son was or wasn't there. A kid shooting himself during school hours is devastating, not only to the victim's family but anyone who witnessed it.
I asked for more info because I wanted to know why these were not bigger news.
After reading that article is is clear that the number is inflated.
At least one involved a pellet gun. At least one was an accidental discharge during training, Here's the kicker, one was an incident at a former school that has been closed down at least all year prior to the incident.
And I'm not saying I wouldnt classify the others as a school shooting, but reading the details of each case I am not surprised it wasn't bigger news.
So yes, it is clear that to claim there have been more shootings than school days does seem inflated.
That does not mean I don;t think we should not try to prevent any of those, or that I defend someone using a bb gun at a school bus. It just means I think classifying a suicide on a property that is no longer a school as a "school shooting" is misleading and trying to push an agenda just as hard as you think the NRA tries to push theirs.
So yes, lets help prevent/reduce the number of gun suicides at school and everywhere else, lets prevent drive-bys from shooting out school windows, lets prevent college kids from carrying weapons into their dorms. Lets do all that. I can say the media is misleading and still believe that.
So pellet guns can't seriously injure someone? Of course they can; this one shot out a window, after all. It's a firearm, and it was fired at a school bus, so I'm putting that one back in the pile.
One was an accidental discharge - through the wall, into what could have been another classroom or office or some such. That gun should not have been on school property. I'll put that back in the pile, too.
The article makes it clear that "Everytown defines a school shooting as when a "firearm discharges a live round inside a school building or on a school campus or grounds." With that definition, the article is not misleading. And in fact the headline doesn't even say "school shooting", it says "shooting incidents", which to me seems like you have to try hard to think you're being mislead, when every example is about a shooting incident.
And my original post did not say you were "dismissive". It didn't mention you at all.my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0 -
And "pushing an agenda"? Damn right I'm pushing an agenda - an agenda that tries to limit the number of people wounded and killed. I happen to think that's a better agenda than that of the NRA.my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0
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There clearly is more to the definition of a school shooting than "firearm discharges a live round inside a school building or on a school campus or grounds" that was left out. Colleges discharge firearms all the time as part of physics classes and some even have competition shooting teams, so just plainly discharging a firearm is not a school shooting.
Looking at a list of definition it is the same reason you see such differences in the reported number of mass shootings. Some sources consider it a mass shooting if there's only 1 person injured but multiple people present, other defintions are if 3 or 4 people were killed.
Wikipedia defines it as "form of mass shooting attack on an educational institution"
I would think that is too narrow, I wouldn't consider 1 victim, or even no victims not a school shooting.
But just any discharge of a firearm in an educational facility is way too broad, there would be hundreds every day.
I think it would be safe to say most people would consider a school shooting when a firearm is discharged with the intent to kill, injure or even just scare.
Pellet guns by definition are not firearms. So by their own definition in the article it isn't a school shooting.
The accidental discharge was from a gun that was permitted on campus. It was mistaken as a training gun. The person in charge should definitely face some consequences, I'm not defending his behavior. But is not what I think most people would consider a school shooting.
One of the suicides wasn't even a school. it was on the property of a former school. This one alone make me think they look for any reason whatsoever to chalk anything up as a school shooting.
Again, I dont think anything in that article is okay. I was just saying I think the article was misleading. But to claim there have been 11 school shootings then you are counting any property of a former school where a shooting took place in order to get to 11. That is misleading.0 -
I can't wait for mace's pointing out the misleading ness of this opinion piece.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/24/opinion/guns-kentucky-twitter.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-right-region®ion=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region
09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Wayne? Is that you?mace1229 said:There clearly is more to the definition of a school shooting than "firearm discharges a live round inside a school building or on a school campus or grounds" that was left out. Colleges discharge firearms all the time as part of physics classes and some even have competition shooting teams, so just plainly discharging a firearm is not a school shooting.
Looking at a list of definition it is the same reason you see such differences in the reported number of mass shootings. Some sources consider it a mass shooting if there's only 1 person injured but multiple people present, other defintions are if 3 or 4 people were killed.
Wikipedia defines it as "form of mass shooting attack on an educational institution"
I would think that is too narrow, I wouldn't consider 1 victim, or even no victims not a school shooting.
But just any discharge of a firearm in an educational facility is way too broad, there would be hundreds every day.
I think it would be safe to say most people would consider a school shooting when a firearm is discharged with the intent to kill, injure or even just scare.
Pellet guns by definition are not firearms. So by their own definition in the article it isn't a school shooting.
The accidental discharge was from a gun that was permitted on campus. It was mistaken as a training gun. The person in charge should definitely face some consequences, I'm not defending his behavior. But is not what I think most people would consider a school shooting.
One of the suicides wasn't even a school. it was on the property of a former school. This one alone make me think they look for any reason whatsoever to chalk anything up as a school shooting.
Again, I dont think anything in that article is okay. I was just saying I think the article was misleading. But to claim there have been 11 school shootings then you are counting any property of a former school where a shooting took place in order to get to 11. That is misleading.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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I really don't know why you insist on calling me on items that make sense to even a 3-year old. I guess that is what gets you up in the morning, I'm glad I can help. You've argued with me even on the rare occasions I said you were right, you came back and debated that. It is really amusing.
It really is my own fault in expecting everyone to participate in a respectful conversation, adult. I know, I should have learn not to expect so much by now, but that is my fault
I'll try one more time to explain the rationale.
I asked for clarification because I wanted to know more about the topic being discused. I actually cared, I didn't want to just insult people, but wanted to engage in a real conversation and learn from it. I wanted to know if there had been 11 school whootings, why none have been major news.
After reading that article it is clear why. Most, yes, would be a school shooting under any definition. SHootng out school windows is horrible, I have never said otherwise. But I can see why that did not make national news, so that is why I'm not surprised we have not heard of them. Does not make it okay, does not mean I swept it under the rug.
I'm sorry if you can;t put together the logic to see the flaw in counting a grown man's suicide on a piece of property that is not a school, but since it was a school years ago go ahead and count it as a school shooting anyway. I think the media and anyone else inflating data for their argument does not help. There is plenty of data that is horrific enough about school and gun violence, no need to make up new data. The 7 or 8 that I think everyone would agree with is a school shooting is staggering enough, why the need to count a grown man's suicide on a closed school. It's not a functional school at that point. Are we going to count any person who ever went to school at some point in their life as a student involved shooting too?
I have no issue with that article. There has not been talks on gun control. I don;t know why you think I would have an issue with it.Post edited by mace1229 on0 -
You are asking too much if you expect to carry on a respectable conversation with some of the AMT addicts these days, lol. A couple (not to mention names) will start responding to and quoting themselves if you wait long enough...It’s kinda pitiful...pathetic even. Don’t get too frustrated. I am reminded of the saying “They would argue with a fence post”.mace1229 said:I really don't know why you insist on calling me on items that make sense to even a 3-year old. I guess that is what gets you up in the morning, I'm glad I can help. You've argued with me even on the rare occasions I said you were right, you came back and debated that. It is really amusing.
It really is my own fault in expecting everyone to participate in a respectful conversation, adult. I know, I should have learn not to expect so much by now, but that is my fault
I'll try one more time to explain the rationale.
I asked for clarification because I wanted to know more about the topic being discused. I actually cared, I didn't want to just insult people, but wanted to engage in a real conversation and learn from it. I wanted to know if there had been 11 school whootings, why none have been major news.
After reading that article it is clear why. Most, yes, would be a school shooting under any definition. SHootng out school windows is horrible, I have never said otherwise. But I can see why that did not make national news, so that is why I'm not surprised we have not heard of them. Does not make it okay, does not mean I swept it under the rug.
I'm sorry if you can;t put together the logic to see the flaw in counting a grown man's suicide on a piece of property that is not a school, but since it was a school years ago go ahead and count it as a school shooting anyway. I think the media and anyone else inflating data for their argument does not help. There is plenty of data that is horrific enough about school and gun violence, no need to make up new data. The 7 or 8 that I think everyone would agree with is a school shooting is staggering enough, why the need to count a grown man's suicide on a closed school. It's not a functional school at that point. Are we going to count any person who ever went to school at some point in their life as a student involved shooting too?
I have no issue with that article. There has not been talks on gun control. I don;t know why you think I would have an issue with it.
As for gun violence, the issue has taken a back seat for me. Things like the new fentenol/heroin epidemic and gang culture in some of the “shithole” cities like Chicago and Baltimore are of more concern to me these days.0 -
It definitely is easier to face problems with which you aren't complicit!PJPOWER said:
You are asking too much if you expect to carry on a respectable conversation with some of the AMT addicts these days, lol. A couple (not to mention names) will start responding to and quoting themselves if you wait long enough...It’s kinda pitiful...pathetic even. Don’t get too frustrated. I am reminded of the saying “They would argue with a fence post”.mace1229 said:I really don't know why you insist on calling me on items that make sense to even a 3-year old. I guess that is what gets you up in the morning, I'm glad I can help. You've argued with me even on the rare occasions I said you were right, you came back and debated that. It is really amusing.
It really is my own fault in expecting everyone to participate in a respectful conversation, adult. I know, I should have learn not to expect so much by now, but that is my fault
I'll try one more time to explain the rationale.
I asked for clarification because I wanted to know more about the topic being discused. I actually cared, I didn't want to just insult people, but wanted to engage in a real conversation and learn from it. I wanted to know if there had been 11 school whootings, why none have been major news.
After reading that article it is clear why. Most, yes, would be a school shooting under any definition. SHootng out school windows is horrible, I have never said otherwise. But I can see why that did not make national news, so that is why I'm not surprised we have not heard of them. Does not make it okay, does not mean I swept it under the rug.
I'm sorry if you can;t put together the logic to see the flaw in counting a grown man's suicide on a piece of property that is not a school, but since it was a school years ago go ahead and count it as a school shooting anyway. I think the media and anyone else inflating data for their argument does not help. There is plenty of data that is horrific enough about school and gun violence, no need to make up new data. The 7 or 8 that I think everyone would agree with is a school shooting is staggering enough, why the need to count a grown man's suicide on a closed school. It's not a functional school at that point. Are we going to count any person who ever went to school at some point in their life as a student involved shooting too?
I have no issue with that article. There has not been talks on gun control. I don;t know why you think I would have an issue with it.
As for gun violence, the issue has taken a back seat for me. Things like the new fentenol/heroin epidemic and gang culture in some of the “shithole” cities like Chicago and Baltimore are of more concern to me these days.
No doubt about that.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
mace1229 said:I really don't know why you insist on calling me on items that make sense to even a 3-year old. I guess that is what gets you up in the morning, I'm glad I can help. You've argued with me even on the rare occasions I said you were right, you came back and debated that. It is really amusing.
It really is my own fault in expecting everyone to participate in a respectful conversation, adult. I know, I should have learn not to expect so much by now, but that is my fault
I'll try one more time to explain the rationale.
I asked for clarification because I wanted to know more about the topic being discused. I actually cared, I didn't want to just insult people, but wanted to engage in a real conversation and learn from it. I wanted to know if there had been 11 school whootings, why none have been major news.
After reading that article it is clear why. Most, yes, would be a school shooting under any definition. SHootng out school windows is horrible, I have never said otherwise. But I can see why that did not make national news, so that is why I'm not surprised we have not heard of them. Does not make it okay, does not mean I swept it under the rug.
I'm sorry if you can;t put together the logic to see the flaw in counting a grown man's suicide on a piece of property that is not a school, but since it was a school years ago go ahead and count it as a school shooting anyway. I think the media and anyone else inflating data for their argument does not help. There is plenty of data that is horrific enough about school and gun violence, no need to make up new data. The 7 or 8 that I think everyone would agree with is a school shooting is staggering enough, why the need to count a grown man's suicide on a closed school. It's not a functional school at that point. Are we going to count any person who ever went to school at some point in their life as a student involved shooting too?
I have no issue with that article. There has not been talks on gun control. I don;t know why you think I would have an issue with it.
Mace...
I agree that things were distorted with that article. There's a problem with misleading headlines in that typically... I think the average joe reads the headlines as gospel and accepts them at face value.
With that said... the problem still exists."My brain's a good brain!"0 -
I don’t know if it is complicity or cynicism actually. I have yet to see anyone here suggest tenable solutions based on research that would reduce gun violence as a whole in the US. It would take something totally different than the approach other countries have taken, but all I hear is “Australia did it”. Just a bunch of hot air and steam getting released here these days. I do not blame people for not wanting to dive into that well.rgambs said:
It definitely is easier to face problems with which you aren't complicit!PJPOWER said:
You are asking too much if you expect to carry on a respectable conversation with some of the AMT addicts these days, lol. A couple (not to mention names) will start responding to and quoting themselves if you wait long enough...It’s kinda pitiful...pathetic even. Don’t get too frustrated. I am reminded of the saying “They would argue with a fence post”.mace1229 said:I really don't know why you insist on calling me on items that make sense to even a 3-year old. I guess that is what gets you up in the morning, I'm glad I can help. You've argued with me even on the rare occasions I said you were right, you came back and debated that. It is really amusing.
It really is my own fault in expecting everyone to participate in a respectful conversation, adult. I know, I should have learn not to expect so much by now, but that is my fault
I'll try one more time to explain the rationale.
I asked for clarification because I wanted to know more about the topic being discused. I actually cared, I didn't want to just insult people, but wanted to engage in a real conversation and learn from it. I wanted to know if there had been 11 school whootings, why none have been major news.
After reading that article it is clear why. Most, yes, would be a school shooting under any definition. SHootng out school windows is horrible, I have never said otherwise. But I can see why that did not make national news, so that is why I'm not surprised we have not heard of them. Does not make it okay, does not mean I swept it under the rug.
I'm sorry if you can;t put together the logic to see the flaw in counting a grown man's suicide on a piece of property that is not a school, but since it was a school years ago go ahead and count it as a school shooting anyway. I think the media and anyone else inflating data for their argument does not help. There is plenty of data that is horrific enough about school and gun violence, no need to make up new data. The 7 or 8 that I think everyone would agree with is a school shooting is staggering enough, why the need to count a grown man's suicide on a closed school. It's not a functional school at that point. Are we going to count any person who ever went to school at some point in their life as a student involved shooting too?
I have no issue with that article. There has not been talks on gun control. I don;t know why you think I would have an issue with it.
As for gun violence, the issue has taken a back seat for me. Things like the new fentenol/heroin epidemic and gang culture in some of the “shithole” cities like Chicago and Baltimore are of more concern to me these days.
No doubt about that.
You can dream of a gunless utopia all you want, meanwhile the largest firearms show in the country is taking place within walking distance from the worst mass shooting in recent history. Seems like it would actually be easier to move to Australia than expect elected representatives to actually make meaningful changes. So yeah, that’s why I stay out of these POINTLESS discussions for the most part these days.Post edited by PJPOWER on0 -
PJPOWER said:
You are asking too much if you expect to carry on a respectable conversation with some of the AMT addicts these days, lol. A couple (not to mention names) will start responding to and quoting themselves if you wait long enough...It’s kinda pitiful...pathetic even. Don’t get too frustrated. I am reminded of the saying “They would argue with a fence post”.mace1229 said:I really don't know why you insist on calling me on items that make sense to even a 3-year old. I guess that is what gets you up in the morning, I'm glad I can help. You've argued with me even on the rare occasions I said you were right, you came back and debated that. It is really amusing.
It really is my own fault in expecting everyone to participate in a respectful conversation, adult. I know, I should have learn not to expect so much by now, but that is my fault
I'll try one more time to explain the rationale.
I asked for clarification because I wanted to know more about the topic being discused. I actually cared, I didn't want to just insult people, but wanted to engage in a real conversation and learn from it. I wanted to know if there had been 11 school whootings, why none have been major news.
After reading that article it is clear why. Most, yes, would be a school shooting under any definition. SHootng out school windows is horrible, I have never said otherwise. But I can see why that did not make national news, so that is why I'm not surprised we have not heard of them. Does not make it okay, does not mean I swept it under the rug.
I'm sorry if you can;t put together the logic to see the flaw in counting a grown man's suicide on a piece of property that is not a school, but since it was a school years ago go ahead and count it as a school shooting anyway. I think the media and anyone else inflating data for their argument does not help. There is plenty of data that is horrific enough about school and gun violence, no need to make up new data. The 7 or 8 that I think everyone would agree with is a school shooting is staggering enough, why the need to count a grown man's suicide on a closed school. It's not a functional school at that point. Are we going to count any person who ever went to school at some point in their life as a student involved shooting too?
I have no issue with that article. There has not been talks on gun control. I don;t know why you think I would have an issue with it.
As for gun violence, the issue has taken a back seat for me. Things like the new fentenol/heroin epidemic and gang culture in some of the “shithole” cities like Chicago and Baltimore are of more concern to me these days.
So what are you doing to try to improve those situations?my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0 -
Absolutely. On both points.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:mace1229 said:I really don't know why you insist on calling me on items that make sense to even a 3-year old. I guess that is what gets you up in the morning, I'm glad I can help. You've argued with me even on the rare occasions I said you were right, you came back and debated that. It is really amusing.
It really is my own fault in expecting everyone to participate in a respectful conversation, adult. I know, I should have learn not to expect so much by now, but that is my fault
I'll try one more time to explain the rationale.
I asked for clarification because I wanted to know more about the topic being discused. I actually cared, I didn't want to just insult people, but wanted to engage in a real conversation and learn from it. I wanted to know if there had been 11 school whootings, why none have been major news.
After reading that article it is clear why. Most, yes, would be a school shooting under any definition. SHootng out school windows is horrible, I have never said otherwise. But I can see why that did not make national news, so that is why I'm not surprised we have not heard of them. Does not make it okay, does not mean I swept it under the rug.
I'm sorry if you can;t put together the logic to see the flaw in counting a grown man's suicide on a piece of property that is not a school, but since it was a school years ago go ahead and count it as a school shooting anyway. I think the media and anyone else inflating data for their argument does not help. There is plenty of data that is horrific enough about school and gun violence, no need to make up new data. The 7 or 8 that I think everyone would agree with is a school shooting is staggering enough, why the need to count a grown man's suicide on a closed school. It's not a functional school at that point. Are we going to count any person who ever went to school at some point in their life as a student involved shooting too?
I have no issue with that article. There has not been talks on gun control. I don;t know why you think I would have an issue with it.
Mace...
I agree that things were distorted with that article. There's a problem with misleading headlines in that typically... I think the average joe reads the headlines as gospel and accepts them at face value.
With that said... the problem still exists.
I don't like misleading headlines. Not just this topic but any, and like you said too many people just read the headline and move on.
But that doesn't mean it isn't a problem. There can be both, admitting an article is misleading, but that doesn't mean I deny there's a problem.
7 or 8 school shootings instead of 11 is still a big problem!0 -
PJPOWER said:
I don’t know if it is complicity or cynicism actually. I have yet to see anyone here suggest tenable solutions based on research that would reduce gun violence as a whole in the US. It would take something totally different than the approach other countries have taken, but all I hear is “Australia did it”. Just a bunch of hot air and steam getting released here these days. I do not blame people for not wanting to dive into that well.rgambs said:
It definitely is easier to face problems with which you aren't complicit!PJPOWER said:
You are asking too much if you expect to carry on a respectable conversation with some of the AMT addicts these days, lol. A couple (not to mention names) will start responding to and quoting themselves if you wait long enough...It’s kinda pitiful...pathetic even. Don’t get too frustrated. I am reminded of the saying “They would argue with a fence post”.mace1229 said:I really don't know why you insist on calling me on items that make sense to even a 3-year old. I guess that is what gets you up in the morning, I'm glad I can help. You've argued with me even on the rare occasions I said you were right, you came back and debated that. It is really amusing.
It really is my own fault in expecting everyone to participate in a respectful conversation, adult. I know, I should have learn not to expect so much by now, but that is my fault
I'll try one more time to explain the rationale.
I asked for clarification because I wanted to know more about the topic being discused. I actually cared, I didn't want to just insult people, but wanted to engage in a real conversation and learn from it. I wanted to know if there had been 11 school whootings, why none have been major news.
After reading that article it is clear why. Most, yes, would be a school shooting under any definition. SHootng out school windows is horrible, I have never said otherwise. But I can see why that did not make national news, so that is why I'm not surprised we have not heard of them. Does not make it okay, does not mean I swept it under the rug.
I'm sorry if you can;t put together the logic to see the flaw in counting a grown man's suicide on a piece of property that is not a school, but since it was a school years ago go ahead and count it as a school shooting anyway. I think the media and anyone else inflating data for their argument does not help. There is plenty of data that is horrific enough about school and gun violence, no need to make up new data. The 7 or 8 that I think everyone would agree with is a school shooting is staggering enough, why the need to count a grown man's suicide on a closed school. It's not a functional school at that point. Are we going to count any person who ever went to school at some point in their life as a student involved shooting too?
I have no issue with that article. There has not been talks on gun control. I don;t know why you think I would have an issue with it.
As for gun violence, the issue has taken a back seat for me. Things like the new fentenol/heroin epidemic and gang culture in some of the “shithole” cities like Chicago and Baltimore are of more concern to me these days.
No doubt about that.
You can dream of a gunless utopia all you want, meanwhile the largest firearms show in the country is taking place within walking distance from the worst mass shooting in recent history. Seems like it would actually be easier to move to Australia than expect elected representatives to actually make meaningful changes. So yeah, that’s why I stay out of these POINTLESS discussions for the most part these days.
You forgot about Canada, the UK, Japan...
It's only POINTLESS because logic and common sense fall on ears deafened by those who love to shoot shit.
Sooo... continue to parallel Mexico and Yemen for gun violence per capita lol.
YEEEE HAAWWWW. Git 'er done."My brain's a good brain!"0
This discussion has been closed.
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