I don't believe in God

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

Normalized as in "believing in the tooth fairy isn't normal and believing in God is".

I personally have absolutely no qualms in saying I'm an Atheist is any and all situations, because I couldn't care less what other people think about it. Also, I'm always extremely intrigued when I discover that someone is a devout whatever. When I find out a co-worker or someone actually attends Church and is really religious, I'm genuinely fascinated, and want nothing more than to discuss their beliefs and their experiences with that. I find that most very religious people are weirdly closed-lipped and self-conscious of their faith, while I've never met an Atheist who is.... And these are not faithful people who get persecuted or teased or anything about their religion at all. So that makes me wonder wtf they're so uncomfortable about. Perhaps they are insecure about it because deep down they know that a lot of it is pretty ludicrous, or maybe are afraid a non-religious person is going to be able to easily poke holes in the beliefs (I wouldn't do that in this scenario)... That makes me wonder if their faith is as solid as they seem to want it to be. Either that, or they are basically just a bunch of snobs who don't think an Atheist is worth sharing with. And no, I don't do anything to make them feel weird or judged. I show genuine, friendly interest and curiosity about it. I really enjoy hearing their perspectives about it, especially when they're converts from other faiths or something. I dunno... lately I feel like a lot of religious folks, particularly Christians, have a persecution complex that acts like a kind of defense mechanism.

this is because many atheists who act 'intrigued' at someone's beliefs are really only after one thing: mockery and superiority. i am at the same point as you, where i am genuinely interested in someone's beliefs, and my brother understands that i'm asking out of curiosity, not as a reason to mock him. but he honestly feels like his religion is under siege, and i can't say that in some ways i blame that thought. now, he is more talking in the context of being called a bigot for his beliefs, but in a more general sense, a lot of atheists mock theists using slights like the flying spaghetti monster, santa claus, easter bunny, etc, as seen above. 

the difference is, we all know santa et al aren't real. we KNOW that. we don't know how we were created, and by what/whom. so it's pretty arrogant, to me, to tell people, no matter your beliefs, what is fact. it bothers me when theists tell me for a fact they know god exists, and it also bothers me when atheists tell me for a fact a god doesn't exist.  there aren't any that we know of at this point. 

in my opinion, we are all agnostic, just most of us don't know it.

Well I have honestly never met an Atheist in my whole life who asks a religious person about their faith to their face and then turned around and mocked and ridiculed them, so I'm not sure where in the hell that fear comes from. I rather think it's imagined, or at least majorly exaggerated in their heads because they think something they see on the internet has way more weight than it really does. I personally think this "my religion is under siege" idea is pure delusion (unless you're a Muslim in America, that is). What they're actually experiencing is the power of Christianity and that establishment shinking. They are the religious equivalent of those white men who are freaking out because they are losing power in modern society.

Oh, and no, I'm not agnostic in any way, shape or form. I am definitely 100% Atheist, and I don't care who that bothers. I don't think the view you're expressing is logical. As I've said before, I know God doesn't exist the same way I know a giant polk-a-dotted, cottonball breathing dragon doesn't exist. I think that saying there is no way to know that god doesn't exist is a logical absurdity. Doesn't matter to me if others don't agree with my viewpoint. I hold it unwaveringly. And no, that is not equal to the other side of the coin.

a logical absurdity to me is thinking you know all of the secrets of the universe from your porch in vancouver. 

i think saying you 'know' there is no higher power is just as ridiculous as someone saying they 'know' there is. 

I don't think I know all the secrets of the universe, Mr. Sarcasm. I just know that just because something is made up by people I have no obligation to humour the idea, and I also think that to say believing in the existence of something ludicrous conjured up by people and not believing in the existence of something ludicrous conjured up by people are the same thing is extremely messed up logic. It makes no sense to act like the two are comparable.

i am not talking about religion. that is man made. the idea that everything has a creator is not. it is logic. 

The concept of God - i.e. a creator - is also man made.

no, it's simple logic. everything that is made has to have a creator, whether it's some god, or an energy, or something. 

tbergs said:

/\/\/\
Ok, call me ignorant, but what thing that we know of is not created by some other thing through some action or reaction? I'm drawing a blank.

F Me In The Brain said:

Typically the person making a claim is the holder of the burden of proof, right?
In this case claiming I have super powers I have to prove it.  Someone claiming there is a god would have the same need to prove their claim to someone who disputes it.  Why, with religion, does this not hold?

HughFreakingDillon said:

cincybearcat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

it comes up as my brother is ultra religious, as is his wife and son. their son especially judges me like a motherfucker. i really think he thinks i'm the devil. he creeps me the fuck out. in a unabomber kinda way.

they believe homosexuality is a choice and is curable. my brother told me last night at dinner that the he finds the american (republican) version of christianity is so bastardized that it barely resembles christianity at all. which i found interesting. 

it also comes up in my house a lot as my wife is catholic and so i agreed to raise our kids as such. or rather, i said i'd allow her to teach them that as kids, and they can make their minds up about it when they can frame it themselves. my youngest asks me questions about my beliefs all the time. it's kind of fun as, for an 8 year old, she comes up with fascinatingly intelligent questions. and i enjoy talking to her about it, because she's so young, there's zero judgment, only curiosity. which is refreshing. 

my daughter's guitar teacher gave her a ball to carry around the house as exercise in how to hold her finger picking hand. i looked at it and it said "smile....jesus loves you". i nearly stuffed it in his fucking mouth. 

Serious question...you want others to respect your beliefs, so why the last sentence?  

I persoannly don;t believe in organized religion.  I do believe in something...or maybe I just want to.  But to me it just feels like there is something that ties us all together.  But then there are times when I think there is no way.

I also am a bit like you in that I seem to have a terrible reaction to others beliefs at times and it bothers me.  But I'm trying to not do that as much.  Because some of the time they are being judgmental and deserve it, but most of the time it's pretty innocent and just normal life for them.  And really it doesn't effect me anymore than someone's sexuality so I should stop being such a jerk about it all the time.

the last sentence because it just seems so underhanded to give a "gift" to a child and it turning out to be something that happens to be part of their agenda. I find that disgusting. people do that shit knowing full well how awkward it is to confront the person about it with their child right there and the parent giving them shit for a gift they gave them. it turns into 'how did I become the asshole in this situation?'. 

I wasn't actually as angry about it and that statement made it sound. He's a nice guy, and for all I know, he got it for free to give to his students and thought nothing of it. I don't know. I looked at it, chuckled to myself, and put it down. 

the difference between someone's sexuality and religion is that no one is trying to ram their sexuality down anyone's throat. They are proud, they want to make you aware who they are, but by no means are they trying to convert you. 

Annafalk said:

So a sincere question for non believers, if you could choose, would you want there to be a God or not?

Annafalk said:

So a sincere question for non believers, if you could choose, would you want there to be a God or not?

jerparker20 said:

I grew up in a strict Catholic household with very devote parents.  Think daily mass, nightly family rosary prayers, attending prayer groups and other church related stuff. Thankfully, my parents didn't force me or my brother to be alter boys since the priest at our parish turned out to be a molester.  Anyways, deep down I always questioned a lot of things I was being taught/told because some of the stuff was very contradictory.  When I questioned things, I never got straight answers, but trope such as "we are not the question god's will, or the churches authority."  Things like that, but still I went along with stuff because I wanted to be a good kid, confused, overwhelmed with guilt, and scared to death that I was going to hell . As I got older I still attended Sunday mass and such, but I still questioned myself as to why. 

Finally, when I was 30, I walked away from the church/deities/religion and have zero intentions of going back.  Hands down the one of the best things I've ever done.  It was a huge weight lifted off of my shoulders.  No regrets.  It initially has caused a little riff with my family, but we come to an agreement to just not discuss religion.  We get along even better now. 

A couple of books I found helpful with explaining my non-belief to believers:

God is Not Great by Christopher Hitchens (say what you will about him, I don't agree with some of his views/writings, but this book was helpful to me)

Letters From the Underworld by Mark Twain

The Demon-haunted World: A Candle in the Dark by Carl Sagan

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

Normalized as in "believing in the tooth fairy isn't normal and believing in God is".

I personally have absolutely no qualms in saying I'm an Atheist is any and all situations, because I couldn't care less what other people think about it. Also, I'm always extremely intrigued when I discover that someone is a devout whatever. When I find out a co-worker or someone actually attends Church and is really religious, I'm genuinely fascinated, and want nothing more than to discuss their beliefs and their experiences with that. I find that most very religious people are weirdly closed-lipped and self-conscious of their faith, while I've never met an Atheist who is.... And these are not faithful people who get persecuted or teased or anything about their religion at all. So that makes me wonder wtf they're so uncomfortable about. Perhaps they are insecure about it because deep down they know that a lot of it is pretty ludicrous, or maybe are afraid a non-religious person is going to be able to easily poke holes in the beliefs (I wouldn't do that in this scenario)... That makes me wonder if their faith is as solid as they seem to want it to be. Either that, or they are basically just a bunch of snobs who don't think an Atheist is worth sharing with. And no, I don't do anything to make them feel weird or judged. I show genuine, friendly interest and curiosity about it. I really enjoy hearing their perspectives about it, especially when they're converts from other faiths or something. I dunno... lately I feel like a lot of religious folks, particularly Christians, have a persecution complex that acts like a kind of defense mechanism.

this is because many atheists who act 'intrigued' at someone's beliefs are really only after one thing: mockery and superiority. i am at the same point as you, where i am genuinely interested in someone's beliefs, and my brother understands that i'm asking out of curiosity, not as a reason to mock him. but he honestly feels like his religion is under siege, and i can't say that in some ways i blame that thought. now, he is more talking in the context of being called a bigot for his beliefs, but in a more general sense, a lot of atheists mock theists using slights like the flying spaghetti monster, santa claus, easter bunny, etc, as seen above. 

the difference is, we all know santa et al aren't real. we KNOW that. we don't know how we were created, and by what/whom. so it's pretty arrogant, to me, to tell people, no matter your beliefs, what is fact. it bothers me when theists tell me for a fact they know god exists, and it also bothers me when atheists tell me for a fact a god doesn't exist.  there aren't any that we know of at this point. 

in my opinion, we are all agnostic, just most of us don't know it.

Well I have honestly never met an Atheist in my whole life who asks a religious person about their faith to their face and then turned around and mocked and ridiculed them, so I'm not sure where in the hell that fear comes from. I rather think it's imagined, or at least majorly exaggerated in their heads because they think something they see on the internet has way more weight than it really does. I personally think this "my religion is under siege" idea is pure delusion (unless you're a Muslim in America, that is). What they're actually experiencing is the power of Christianity and that establishment shinking. They are the religious equivalent of those white men who are freaking out because they are losing power in modern society.

Oh, and no, I'm not agnostic in any way, shape or form. I am definitely 100% Atheist, and I don't care who that bothers. I don't think the view you're expressing is logical. As I've said before, I know God doesn't exist the same way I know a giant polk-a-dotted, cottonball breathing dragon doesn't exist. I think that saying there is no way to know that god doesn't exist is a logical absurdity. Doesn't matter to me if others don't agree with my viewpoint. I hold it unwaveringly. And no, that is not equal to the other side of the coin.

a logical absurdity to me is thinking you know all of the secrets of the universe from your porch in vancouver. 

i think saying you 'know' there is no higher power is just as ridiculous as someone saying they 'know' there is. 

I don't think I know all the secrets of the universe, Mr. Sarcasm. I just know that just because something is made up by people I have no obligation to humour the idea, and I also think that to say believing in the existence of something ludicrous conjured up by people and not believing in the existence of something ludicrous conjured up by people are the same thing is extremely messed up logic. It makes no sense to act like the two are comparable.

i am not talking about religion. that is man made. the idea that everything has a creator is not. it is logic. 

The concept of God - i.e. a creator - is also man made.

no, it's simple logic. everything that is made has to have a creator, whether it's some god, or an energy, or something.