I don't believe in God

HughFreakingDillon · January 2018

PJ_Soul said:

Normalized as in "believing in the tooth fairy isn't normal and believing in God is".

I personally have absolutely no qualms in saying I'm an Atheist is any and all situations, because I couldn't care less what other people think about it. Also, I'm always extremely intrigued when I discover that someone is a devout whatever. When I find out a co-worker or someone actually attends Church and is really religious, I'm genuinely fascinated, and want nothing more than to discuss their beliefs and their experiences with that. I find that most very religious people are weirdly closed-lipped and self-conscious of their faith, while I've never met an Atheist who is.... And these are not faithful people who get persecuted or teased or anything about their religion at all. So that makes me wonder wtf they're so uncomfortable about. Perhaps they are insecure about it because deep down they know that a lot of it is pretty ludicrous, or maybe are afraid a non-religious person is going to be able to easily poke holes in the beliefs (I wouldn't do that in this scenario)... That makes me wonder if their faith is as solid as they seem to want it to be. Either that, or they are basically just a bunch of snobs who don't think an Atheist is worth sharing with. And no, I don't do anything to make them feel weird or judged. I show genuine, friendly interest and curiosity about it. I really enjoy hearing their perspectives about it, especially when they're converts from other faiths or something. I dunno... lately I feel like a lot of religious folks, particularly Christians, have a persecution complex that acts like a kind of defense mechanism.

this is because many atheists who act 'intrigued' at someone's beliefs are really only after one thing: mockery and superiority. i am at the same point as you, where i am genuinely interested in someone's beliefs, and my brother understands that i'm asking out of curiosity, not as a reason to mock him. but he honestly feels like his religion is under siege, and i can't say that in some ways i blame that thought. now, he is more talking in the context of being called a bigot for his beliefs, but in a more general sense, a lot of atheists mock theists using slights like the flying spaghetti monster, santa claus, easter bunny, etc, as seen above.

the difference is, we all know santa et al aren't real. we KNOW that. we don't know how we were created, and by what/whom. so it's pretty arrogant, to me, to tell people, no matter your beliefs, what is fact. it bothers me when theists tell me for a fact they know god exists, and it also bothers me when atheists tell me for a fact a god doesn't exist. there aren't any that we know of at this point.

in my opinion, we are all agnostic, just most of us don't know it.

KC138045 · January 2018

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

Normalized as in "believing in the tooth fairy isn't normal and believing in God is".

I personally have absolutely no qualms in saying I'm an Atheist is any and all situations, because I couldn't care less what other people think about it. Also, I'm always extremely intrigued when I discover that someone is a devout whatever. When I find out a co-worker or someone actually attends Church and is really religious, I'm genuinely fascinated, and want nothing more than to discuss their beliefs and their experiences with that. I find that most very religious people are weirdly closed-lipped and self-conscious of their faith, while I've never met an Atheist who is.... And these are not faithful people who get persecuted or teased or anything about their religion at all. So that makes me wonder wtf they're so uncomfortable about. Perhaps they are insecure about it because deep down they know that a lot of it is pretty ludicrous, or maybe are afraid a non-religious person is going to be able to easily poke holes in the beliefs (I wouldn't do that in this scenario)... That makes me wonder if their faith is as solid as they seem to want it to be. Either that, or they are basically just a bunch of snobs who don't think an Atheist is worth sharing with. And no, I don't do anything to make them feel weird or judged. I show genuine, friendly interest and curiosity about it. I really enjoy hearing their perspectives about it, especially when they're converts from other faiths or something. I dunno... lately I feel like a lot of religious folks, particularly Christians, have a persecution complex that acts like a kind of defense mechanism.

this is because many atheists who act 'intrigued' at someone's beliefs are really only after one thing: mockery and superiority. i am at the same point as you, where i am genuinely interested in someone's beliefs, and my brother understands that i'm asking out of curiosity, not as a reason to mock him. but he honestly feels like his religion is under siege, and i can't say that in some ways i blame that thought. now, he is more talking in the context of being called a bigot for his beliefs, but in a more general sense, a lot of atheists mock theists using slights like the flying spaghetti monster, santa claus, easter bunny, etc, as seen above.

the difference is, we all know santa et al aren't real. we KNOW that. we don't know how we were created, and by what/whom. so it's pretty arrogant, to me, to tell people, no matter your beliefs, what is fact. it bothers me when theists tell me for a fact they know god exists, and it also bothers me when atheists tell me for a fact a god doesn't exist. there aren't any that we know of at this point.

in my opinion, we are all agnostic, just most of us don't know it.

I'm curious as to how your brother became so religious and your not. Are your parents religious? Were you raised to be religious?

PJ_Soul · January 2018

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

Normalized as in "believing in the tooth fairy isn't normal and believing in God is".

I personally have absolutely no qualms in saying I'm an Atheist is any and all situations, because I couldn't care less what other people think about it. Also, I'm always extremely intrigued when I discover that someone is a devout whatever. When I find out a co-worker or someone actually attends Church and is really religious, I'm genuinely fascinated, and want nothing more than to discuss their beliefs and their experiences with that. I find that most very religious people are weirdly closed-lipped and self-conscious of their faith, while I've never met an Atheist who is.... And these are not faithful people who get persecuted or teased or anything about their religion at all. So that makes me wonder wtf they're so uncomfortable about. Perhaps they are insecure about it because deep down they know that a lot of it is pretty ludicrous, or maybe are afraid a non-religious person is going to be able to easily poke holes in the beliefs (I wouldn't do that in this scenario)... That makes me wonder if their faith is as solid as they seem to want it to be. Either that, or they are basically just a bunch of snobs who don't think an Atheist is worth sharing with. And no, I don't do anything to make them feel weird or judged. I show genuine, friendly interest and curiosity about it. I really enjoy hearing their perspectives about it, especially when they're converts from other faiths or something. I dunno... lately I feel like a lot of religious folks, particularly Christians, have a persecution complex that acts like a kind of defense mechanism.

this is because many atheists who act 'intrigued' at someone's beliefs are really only after one thing: mockery and superiority. i am at the same point as you, where i am genuinely interested in someone's beliefs, and my brother understands that i'm asking out of curiosity, not as a reason to mock him. but he honestly feels like his religion is under siege, and i can't say that in some ways i blame that thought. now, he is more talking in the context of being called a bigot for his beliefs, but in a more general sense, a lot of atheists mock theists using slights like the flying spaghetti monster, santa claus, easter bunny, etc, as seen above.

the difference is, we all know santa et al aren't real. we KNOW that. we don't know how we were created, and by what/whom. so it's pretty arrogant, to me, to tell people, no matter your beliefs, what is fact. it bothers me when theists tell me for a fact they know god exists, and it also bothers me when atheists tell me for a fact a god doesn't exist. there aren't any that we know of at this point.

in my opinion, we are all agnostic, just most of us don't know it.

Well I have honestly never met an Atheist in my whole life who asks a religious person about their faith to their face and then turned around and mocked and ridiculed them, so I'm not sure where in the hell that fear comes from. I rather think it's imagined, or at least majorly exaggerated in their heads because they think something they see on the internet has way more weight than it really does. I personally think this "my religion is under siege" idea is pure delusion (unless you're a Muslim in America, that is). What they're actually experiencing is the power of Christianity and that establishment shinking. They are the religious equivalent of those white men who are freaking out because they are losing power in modern society.

Oh, and no, I'm not agnostic in any way, shape or form. I am definitely 100% Atheist, and I don't care who that bothers. I don't think the view you're expressing is logical. As I've said before, I know God doesn't exist the same way I know a giant polk-a-dotted, cottonball breathing dragon doesn't exist. I think that saying there is no way to know that god doesn't exist is a logical absurdity. Doesn't matter to me if others don't agree with my viewpoint. I hold it unwaveringly. And no, that is not equal to the other side of the coin.

rgambs · January 2018

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

Normalized as in "believing in the tooth fairy isn't normal and believing in God is".

I personally have absolutely no qualms in saying I'm an Atheist is any and all situations, because I couldn't care less what other people think about it. Also, I'm always extremely intrigued when I discover that someone is a devout whatever. When I find out a co-worker or someone actually attends Church and is really religious, I'm genuinely fascinated, and want nothing more than to discuss their beliefs and their experiences with that. I find that most very religious people are weirdly closed-lipped and self-conscious of their faith, while I've never met an Atheist who is.... And these are not faithful people who get persecuted or teased or anything about their religion at all. So that makes me wonder wtf they're so uncomfortable about. Perhaps they are insecure about it because deep down they know that a lot of it is pretty ludicrous, or maybe are afraid a non-religious person is going to be able to easily poke holes in the beliefs (I wouldn't do that in this scenario)... That makes me wonder if their faith is as solid as they seem to want it to be. Either that, or they are basically just a bunch of snobs who don't think an Atheist is worth sharing with. And no, I don't do anything to make them feel weird or judged. I show genuine, friendly interest and curiosity about it. I really enjoy hearing their perspectives about it, especially when they're converts from other faiths or something. I dunno... lately I feel like a lot of religious folks, particularly Christians, have a persecution complex that acts like a kind of defense mechanism.

this is because many atheists who act 'intrigued' at someone's beliefs are really only after one thing: mockery and superiority. i am at the same point as you, where i am genuinely interested in someone's beliefs, and my brother understands that i'm asking out of curiosity, not as a reason to mock him. but he honestly feels like his religion is under siege, and i can't say that in some ways i blame that thought. now, he is more talking in the context of being called a bigot for his beliefs, but in a more general sense, a lot of atheists mock theists using slights like the flying spaghetti monster, santa claus, easter bunny, etc, as seen above.

the difference is, we all know santa et al aren't real. we KNOW that. we don't know how we were created, and by what/whom. so it's pretty arrogant, to me, to tell people, no matter your beliefs, what is fact. it bothers me when theists tell me for a fact they know god exists, and it also bothers me when atheists tell me for a fact a god doesn't exist. there aren't any that we know of at this point.

in my opinion, we are all agnostic, just most of us don't know it.

We know Santa isn't real because he's a story we made up.
We know Yahweh/Jehova/Allah/etc aren't real for the same reason.
We weren't created, we evolved.
Is it possible the universe was created? Yes, it is, and we don't know. The problem is that a + b doesn't equal C. The possible existence of a higher power isn't equal to the possible existence of the major God's, with all their issues elucidated in religious texts.
I don't know definitively that there isn't a higher power, you better bet I know definitively that the Bible is a pile of bullshit and that God does not exist as described. Many atheists are not good at recognising and admitting that it isn't higher power they reject, it's the ridiculous men in the sky they reject. The (almost always men) ones that impregnate virgins, demand blood payments/sacrifices, torture people for misbehaving, and so on.

Degeneratefk · January 2018

unsung said:

To OP: ok.

Moving on.

Ok isn't really an appropriate response for the question I asked in the OP. But ok. Move on.

HughFreakingDillon · January 2018

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

Normalized as in "believing in the tooth fairy isn't normal and believing in God is".

I personally have absolutely no qualms in saying I'm an Atheist is any and all situations, because I couldn't care less what other people think about it. Also, I'm always extremely intrigued when I discover that someone is a devout whatever. When I find out a co-worker or someone actually attends Church and is really religious, I'm genuinely fascinated, and want nothing more than to discuss their beliefs and their experiences with that. I find that most very religious people are weirdly closed-lipped and self-conscious of their faith, while I've never met an Atheist who is.... And these are not faithful people who get persecuted or teased or anything about their religion at all. So that makes me wonder wtf they're so uncomfortable about. Perhaps they are insecure about it because deep down they know that a lot of it is pretty ludicrous, or maybe are afraid a non-religious person is going to be able to easily poke holes in the beliefs (I wouldn't do that in this scenario)... That makes me wonder if their faith is as solid as they seem to want it to be. Either that, or they are basically just a bunch of snobs who don't think an Atheist is worth sharing with. And no, I don't do anything to make them feel weird or judged. I show genuine, friendly interest and curiosity about it. I really enjoy hearing their perspectives about it, especially when they're converts from other faiths or something. I dunno... lately I feel like a lot of religious folks, particularly Christians, have a persecution complex that acts like a kind of defense mechanism.

this is because many atheists who act 'intrigued' at someone's beliefs are really only after one thing: mockery and superiority. i am at the same point as you, where i am genuinely interested in someone's beliefs, and my brother understands that i'm asking out of curiosity, not as a reason to mock him. but he honestly feels like his religion is under siege, and i can't say that in some ways i blame that thought. now, he is more talking in the context of being called a bigot for his beliefs, but in a more general sense, a lot of atheists mock theists using slights like the flying spaghetti monster, santa claus, easter bunny, etc, as seen above.

the difference is, we all know santa et al aren't real. we KNOW that. we don't know how we were created, and by what/whom. so it's pretty arrogant, to me, to tell people, no matter your beliefs, what is fact. it bothers me when theists tell me for a fact they know god exists, and it also bothers me when atheists tell me for a fact a god doesn't exist. there aren't any that we know of at this point.

in my opinion, we are all agnostic, just most of us don't know it.

Well I have honestly never met an Atheist in my whole life who asks a religious person about their faith to their face and then turned around and mocked and ridiculed them, so I'm not sure where in the hell that fear comes from. I rather think it's imagined, or at least majorly exaggerated in their heads because they think something they see on the internet has way more weight than it really does. I personally think this "my religion is under siege" idea is pure delusion (unless you're a Muslim in America, that is). What they're actually experiencing is the power of Christianity and that establishment shinking. They are the religious equivalent of those white men who are freaking out because they are losing power in modern society.

Oh, and no, I'm not agnostic in any way, shape or form. I am definitely 100% Atheist, and I don't care who that bothers. I don't think the view you're expressing is logical. As I've said before, I know God doesn't exist the same way I know a giant polk-a-dotted, cottonball breathing dragon doesn't exist. I think that saying there is no way to know that god doesn't exist is a logical absurdity. Doesn't matter to me if others don't agree with my viewpoint. I hold it unwaveringly. And no, that is not equal to the other side of the coin.

a logical absurdity to me is thinking you know all of the secrets of the universe from your porch in vancouver.

i think saying you 'know' there is no higher power is just as ridiculous as someone saying they 'know' there is.

HughFreakingDillon · January 2018

KC138045 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

Normalized as in "believing in the tooth fairy isn't normal and believing in God is".

I personally have absolutely no qualms in saying I'm an Atheist is any and all situations, because I couldn't care less what other people think about it. Also, I'm always extremely intrigued when I discover that someone is a devout whatever. When I find out a co-worker or someone actually attends Church and is really religious, I'm genuinely fascinated, and want nothing more than to discuss their beliefs and their experiences with that. I find that most very religious people are weirdly closed-lipped and self-conscious of their faith, while I've never met an Atheist who is.... And these are not faithful people who get persecuted or teased or anything about their religion at all. So that makes me wonder wtf they're so uncomfortable about. Perhaps they are insecure about it because deep down they know that a lot of it is pretty ludicrous, or maybe are afraid a non-religious person is going to be able to easily poke holes in the beliefs (I wouldn't do that in this scenario)... That makes me wonder if their faith is as solid as they seem to want it to be. Either that, or they are basically just a bunch of snobs who don't think an Atheist is worth sharing with. And no, I don't do anything to make them feel weird or judged. I show genuine, friendly interest and curiosity about it. I really enjoy hearing their perspectives about it, especially when they're converts from other faiths or something. I dunno... lately I feel like a lot of religious folks, particularly Christians, have a persecution complex that acts like a kind of defense mechanism.

this is because many atheists who act 'intrigued' at someone's beliefs are really only after one thing: mockery and superiority. i am at the same point as you, where i am genuinely interested in someone's beliefs, and my brother understands that i'm asking out of curiosity, not as a reason to mock him. but he honestly feels like his religion is under siege, and i can't say that in some ways i blame that thought. now, he is more talking in the context of being called a bigot for his beliefs, but in a more general sense, a lot of atheists mock theists using slights like the flying spaghetti monster, santa claus, easter bunny, etc, as seen above.

the difference is, we all know santa et al aren't real. we KNOW that. we don't know how we were created, and by what/whom. so it's pretty arrogant, to me, to tell people, no matter your beliefs, what is fact. it bothers me when theists tell me for a fact they know god exists, and it also bothers me when atheists tell me for a fact a god doesn't exist. there aren't any that we know of at this point.

in my opinion, we are all agnostic, just most of us don't know it.

I'm curious as to how your brother became so religious and your not. Are your parents religious? Were you raised to be religious?

we were raised religious, not hardcore. united. which is about as middle of the road religious as you can get to my knowledge. went to church every sunday my whole life till my parents gave me the choice when i was 12. never went again. my dad is now agnostic, my mom still goes to church for the singing. i think she still believes, but doesn't go to church every week. she did make a flippant comment a few years ago, however, about being a 'failed' parent for having 3 kids, two of which are atheists/agnostics. we and my dad largely laughed it off. she wasn't being mean. i think she just doesn't understand how my brother can be so devout and the rest of us be the opposite.

my brother, i think, always had religious tendencies, but he never really embraced them until he met his now-wife in college. she is one of 11, and she is the only religious one in her family. actually, the rest of her family are about as anti-religious as one might get. always found it fascinating how she became the way she was on her own.

cincybearcat · January 2018

rgambs said:

cincybearcat said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

bootlegger10 said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

I don't believe in God either. My religious parents don't get me.

My parents are very religious. They've kept quiet for about 10 years but finally said something to me over the holidays. It really bothers them that I don't go to church. I feel bad because you never want to let down your parents. I don't know where I am at with it though. The religious person discredits evolution/big bang by saying what created the particles or whatever to make us (something from nothing?), and the atheist asks where did God come from?

Don't feel bad.
It would be insane to believe in something someone tells you to believe in when there is no evidence to prove its existence.
Plus, they're letting YOU down by forcing you into believing something you don't want to.

1) It’s not insane. It’s faith. And you do this too I’m sure in other areas where you believe what people say.
2) how are they letting him down...or forcing exactly?

i wasn’t at the conversation so I don’t know if it was a good conversation or judgmental. For those of faith they believe that the other will not go to heaven. So I’m sure it’s uosetting to think your kid will not be joining you. It’s all in how the conversation goes and the intent. Just because people talk about god or faith doesn’t make them wrong/evil.

It's easy to make the argument that faith IS insanity.
If you tweak the circumstances away from something that happens to be indoctrinated to the point where it's widely accepted, it begins to look incredibly insane.
If I start talking about faith in God it gives people fuzzy feelings so it can't be insane, but if I start talking about having faith that I AM God, it looks pretty insane.
Faith that the Earth is flat doesn't look very sane, faith in Scientology isn't usually regarded as highly sane.

Interesting points

tbergs · January 2018

cincybearcat said:

rgambs said:

cincybearcat said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

bootlegger10 said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

I don't believe in God either. My religious parents don't get me.

My parents are very religious. They've kept quiet for about 10 years but finally said something to me over the holidays. It really bothers them that I don't go to church. I feel bad because you never want to let down your parents. I don't know where I am at with it though. The religious person discredits evolution/big bang by saying what created the particles or whatever to make us (something from nothing?), and the atheist asks where did God come from?

Don't feel bad.
It would be insane to believe in something someone tells you to believe in when there is no evidence to prove its existence.
Plus, they're letting YOU down by forcing you into believing something you don't want to.

1) It’s not insane. It’s faith. And you do this too I’m sure in other areas where you believe what people say.
2) how are they letting him down...or forcing exactly?

i wasn’t at the conversation so I don’t know if it was a good conversation or judgmental. For those of faith they believe that the other will not go to heaven. So I’m sure it’s uosetting to think your kid will not be joining you. It’s all in how the conversation goes and the intent. Just because people talk about god or faith doesn’t make them wrong/evil.

It's easy to make the argument that faith IS insanity.
If you tweak the circumstances away from something that happens to be indoctrinated to the point where it's widely accepted, it begins to look incredibly insane.
If I start talking about faith in God it gives people fuzzy feelings so it can't be insane, but if I start talking about having faith that I AM God, it looks pretty insane.
Faith that the Earth is flat doesn't look very sane, faith in Scientology isn't usually regarded as highly sane.

Interesting points

That's taking it to one extreme and isn't much of a measuring point. Someone who believes in a God is more likely to get positive feelings from discussion because it is something they believe in. Much like you experiencing pleasant feelings and thoughts for Pearl Jam (or at least I am assuming based on your membership

) when they come up in a discussion. For any human to say they are a god should be considered insane for obvious reasons unless they can show proof through miracles or acts not capable by any other human being.

unsung · January 2018

Degeneratefk said:

unsung said:

To OP: ok.

Moving on.

Ok isn't really an appropriate response for the question I asked in the OP. But ok. Move on.

It is to thread title.

F Me In The Brain · January 2018

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

Normalized as in "believing in the tooth fairy isn't normal and believing in God is".

I personally have absolutely no qualms in saying I'm an Atheist is any and all situations, because I couldn't care less what other people think about it. Also, I'm always extremely intrigued when I discover that someone is a devout whatever. When I find out a co-worker or someone actually attends Church and is really religious, I'm genuinely fascinated, and want nothing more than to discuss their beliefs and their experiences with that. I find that most very religious people are weirdly closed-lipped and self-conscious of their faith, while I've never met an Atheist who is.... And these are not faithful people who get persecuted or teased or anything about their religion at all. So that makes me wonder wtf they're so uncomfortable about. Perhaps they are insecure about it because deep down they know that a lot of it is pretty ludicrous, or maybe are afraid a non-religious person is going to be able to easily poke holes in the beliefs (I wouldn't do that in this scenario)... That makes me wonder if their faith is as solid as they seem to want it to be. Either that, or they are basically just a bunch of snobs who don't think an Atheist is worth sharing with. And no, I don't do anything to make them feel weird or judged. I show genuine, friendly interest and curiosity about it. I really enjoy hearing their perspectives about it, especially when they're converts from other faiths or something. I dunno... lately I feel like a lot of religious folks, particularly Christians, have a persecution complex that acts like a kind of defense mechanism.

this is because many atheists who act 'intrigued' at someone's beliefs are really only after one thing: mockery and superiority. i am at the same point as you, where i am genuinely interested in someone's beliefs, and my brother understands that i'm asking out of curiosity, not as a reason to mock him. but he honestly feels like his religion is under siege, and i can't say that in some ways i blame that thought. now, he is more talking in the context of being called a bigot for his beliefs, but in a more general sense, a lot of atheists mock theists using slights like the flying spaghetti monster, santa claus, easter bunny, etc, as seen above.

the difference is, we all know santa et al aren't real. we KNOW that. we don't know how we were created, and by what/whom. so it's pretty arrogant, to me, to tell people, no matter your beliefs, what is fact. it bothers me when theists tell me for a fact they know god exists, and it also bothers me when atheists tell me for a fact a god doesn't exist. there aren't any that we know of at this point.

in my opinion, we are all agnostic, just most of us don't know it.

Please leave his holiness out of this discussion.
R'amen.

PJ_Soul · January 2018

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

Normalized as in "believing in the tooth fairy isn't normal and believing in God is".

I personally have absolutely no qualms in saying I'm an Atheist is any and all situations, because I couldn't care less what other people think about it. Also, I'm always extremely intrigued when I discover that someone is a devout whatever. When I find out a co-worker or someone actually attends Church and is really religious, I'm genuinely fascinated, and want nothing more than to discuss their beliefs and their experiences with that. I find that most very religious people are weirdly closed-lipped and self-conscious of their faith, while I've never met an Atheist who is.... And these are not faithful people who get persecuted or teased or anything about their religion at all. So that makes me wonder wtf they're so uncomfortable about. Perhaps they are insecure about it because deep down they know that a lot of it is pretty ludicrous, or maybe are afraid a non-religious person is going to be able to easily poke holes in the beliefs (I wouldn't do that in this scenario)... That makes me wonder if their faith is as solid as they seem to want it to be. Either that, or they are basically just a bunch of snobs who don't think an Atheist is worth sharing with. And no, I don't do anything to make them feel weird or judged. I show genuine, friendly interest and curiosity about it. I really enjoy hearing their perspectives about it, especially when they're converts from other faiths or something. I dunno... lately I feel like a lot of religious folks, particularly Christians, have a persecution complex that acts like a kind of defense mechanism.

this is because many atheists who act 'intrigued' at someone's beliefs are really only after one thing: mockery and superiority. i am at the same point as you, where i am genuinely interested in someone's beliefs, and my brother understands that i'm asking out of curiosity, not as a reason to mock him. but he honestly feels like his religion is under siege, and i can't say that in some ways i blame that thought. now, he is more talking in the context of being called a bigot for his beliefs, but in a more general sense, a lot of atheists mock theists using slights like the flying spaghetti monster, santa claus, easter bunny, etc, as seen above.

the difference is, we all know santa et al aren't real. we KNOW that. we don't know how we were created, and by what/whom. so it's pretty arrogant, to me, to tell people, no matter your beliefs, what is fact. it bothers me when theists tell me for a fact they know god exists, and it also bothers me when atheists tell me for a fact a god doesn't exist. there aren't any that we know of at this point.

in my opinion, we are all agnostic, just most of us don't know it.

Well I have honestly never met an Atheist in my whole life who asks a religious person about their faith to their face and then turned around and mocked and ridiculed them, so I'm not sure where in the hell that fear comes from. I rather think it's imagined, or at least majorly exaggerated in their heads because they think something they see on the internet has way more weight than it really does. I personally think this "my religion is under siege" idea is pure delusion (unless you're a Muslim in America, that is). What they're actually experiencing is the power of Christianity and that establishment shinking. They are the religious equivalent of those white men who are freaking out because they are losing power in modern society.

Oh, and no, I'm not agnostic in any way, shape or form. I am definitely 100% Atheist, and I don't care who that bothers. I don't think the view you're expressing is logical. As I've said before, I know God doesn't exist the same way I know a giant polk-a-dotted, cottonball breathing dragon doesn't exist. I think that saying there is no way to know that god doesn't exist is a logical absurdity. Doesn't matter to me if others don't agree with my viewpoint. I hold it unwaveringly. And no, that is not equal to the other side of the coin.

a logical absurdity to me is thinking you know all of the secrets of the universe from your porch in vancouver.

i think saying you 'know' there is no higher power is just as ridiculous as someone saying they 'know' there is.

I don't think I know all the secrets of the universe, Mr. Sarcasm. I just know that just because something is made up by people I have no obligation to humour the idea, and I also think that to say believing in the existence of something ludicrous conjured up by people and not believing in the existence of something ludicrous conjured up by people are the same thing is extremely messed up logic. It makes no sense to act like the two are comparable.

Gingerlou77 · January 2018

oftenreading · January 2018

HughFreakingDillon said:

KC138045 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

Normalized as in "believing in the tooth fairy isn't normal and believing in God is".

I personally have absolutely no qualms in saying I'm an Atheist is any and all situations, because I couldn't care less what other people think about it. Also, I'm always extremely intrigued when I discover that someone is a devout whatever. When I find out a co-worker or someone actually attends Church and is really religious, I'm genuinely fascinated, and want nothing more than to discuss their beliefs and their experiences with that. I find that most very religious people are weirdly closed-lipped and self-conscious of their faith, while I've never met an Atheist who is.... And these are not faithful people who get persecuted or teased or anything about their religion at all. So that makes me wonder wtf they're so uncomfortable about. Perhaps they are insecure about it because deep down they know that a lot of it is pretty ludicrous, or maybe are afraid a non-religious person is going to be able to easily poke holes in the beliefs (I wouldn't do that in this scenario)... That makes me wonder if their faith is as solid as they seem to want it to be. Either that, or they are basically just a bunch of snobs who don't think an Atheist is worth sharing with. And no, I don't do anything to make them feel weird or judged. I show genuine, friendly interest and curiosity about it. I really enjoy hearing their perspectives about it, especially when they're converts from other faiths or something. I dunno... lately I feel like a lot of religious folks, particularly Christians, have a persecution complex that acts like a kind of defense mechanism.

this is because many atheists who act 'intrigued' at someone's beliefs are really only after one thing: mockery and superiority. i am at the same point as you, where i am genuinely interested in someone's beliefs, and my brother understands that i'm asking out of curiosity, not as a reason to mock him. but he honestly feels like his religion is under siege, and i can't say that in some ways i blame that thought. now, he is more talking in the context of being called a bigot for his beliefs, but in a more general sense, a lot of atheists mock theists using slights like the flying spaghetti monster, santa claus, easter bunny, etc, as seen above.

the difference is, we all know santa et al aren't real. we KNOW that. we don't know how we were created, and by what/whom. so it's pretty arrogant, to me, to tell people, no matter your beliefs, what is fact. it bothers me when theists tell me for a fact they know god exists, and it also bothers me when atheists tell me for a fact a god doesn't exist. there aren't any that we know of at this point.

in my opinion, we are all agnostic, just most of us don't know it.

I'm curious as to how your brother became so religious and your not. Are your parents religious? Were you raised to be religious?

we were raised religious, not hardcore. united. which is about as middle of the road religious as you can get to my knowledge. went to church every sunday my whole life till my parents gave me the choice when i was 12. never went again. my dad is now agnostic, my mom still goes to church for the singing. i think she still believes, but doesn't go to church every week. she did make a flippant comment a few years ago, however, about being a 'failed' parent for having 3 kids, two of which are atheists/agnostics. we and my dad largely laughed it off. she wasn't being mean. i think she just doesn't understand how my brother can be so devout and the rest of us be the opposite.

my brother, i think, always had religious tendencies, but he never really embraced them until he met his now-wife in college. she is one of 11, and she is the only religious one in her family. actually, the rest of her family are about as anti-religious as one might get. always found it fascinating how she became the way she was on her own.

My own family has similarities. We were raised Anglican, sort of. Were taken to church sporadically on Sundays, went to the Easter and Christmas services, that sort of thing. I stopped going as soon as I could and have no interest in organized religion. My brother continued attending, participated in Youth Group and eventually helped lead a youth group. As an adult he and his family still attend church weekly. He sings in the choir and his son is an altar boy. But luckily, there's no conflict in our family about it. If I happen to be visiting him on a weekend he'll laughingly invite me to church with him and I will similarly decline, and then we'll all meet for brunch after services. No judgment on either side.

mace1229 · January 2018

I don;t think it is a valid argument to say that the story of Santa is made by man so we know he is fake, just like religions are made up by man so we know they are equally fake.
Those are two different things. Men have taken credit for stories of Santa. Man has not taken credit for many of the world's religions. Most religions are said to be birthed from God through prophets and other means.
Even if you don't believe in God, there is still a difference between a story that the authors claim to be fake, and another story where the authors claim to be messengers of God or first hand witnesses of the accounts. I just don't see it as evidence religion is fake that some have claimed here.

HughFreakingDillon · January 2018

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

Normalized as in "believing in the tooth fairy isn't normal and believing in God is".

I personally have absolutely no qualms in saying I'm an Atheist is any and all situations, because I couldn't care less what other people think about it. Also, I'm always extremely intrigued when I discover that someone is a devout whatever. When I find out a co-worker or someone actually attends Church and is really religious, I'm genuinely fascinated, and want nothing more than to discuss their beliefs and their experiences with that. I find that most very religious people are weirdly closed-lipped and self-conscious of their faith, while I've never met an Atheist who is.... And these are not faithful people who get persecuted or teased or anything about their religion at all. So that makes me wonder wtf they're so uncomfortable about. Perhaps they are insecure about it because deep down they know that a lot of it is pretty ludicrous, or maybe are afraid a non-religious person is going to be able to easily poke holes in the beliefs (I wouldn't do that in this scenario)... That makes me wonder if their faith is as solid as they seem to want it to be. Either that, or they are basically just a bunch of snobs who don't think an Atheist is worth sharing with. And no, I don't do anything to make them feel weird or judged. I show genuine, friendly interest and curiosity about it. I really enjoy hearing their perspectives about it, especially when they're converts from other faiths or something. I dunno... lately I feel like a lot of religious folks, particularly Christians, have a persecution complex that acts like a kind of defense mechanism.

this is because many atheists who act 'intrigued' at someone's beliefs are really only after one thing: mockery and superiority. i am at the same point as you, where i am genuinely interested in someone's beliefs, and my brother understands that i'm asking out of curiosity, not as a reason to mock him. but he honestly feels like his religion is under siege, and i can't say that in some ways i blame that thought. now, he is more talking in the context of being called a bigot for his beliefs, but in a more general sense, a lot of atheists mock theists using slights like the flying spaghetti monster, santa claus, easter bunny, etc, as seen above.

the difference is, we all know santa et al aren't real. we KNOW that. we don't know how we were created, and by what/whom. so it's pretty arrogant, to me, to tell people, no matter your beliefs, what is fact. it bothers me when theists tell me for a fact they know god exists, and it also bothers me when atheists tell me for a fact a god doesn't exist. there aren't any that we know of at this point.

in my opinion, we are all agnostic, just most of us don't know it.

Well I have honestly never met an Atheist in my whole life who asks a religious person about their faith to their face and then turned around and mocked and ridiculed them, so I'm not sure where in the hell that fear comes from. I rather think it's imagined, or at least majorly exaggerated in their heads because they think something they see on the internet has way more weight than it really does. I personally think this "my religion is under siege" idea is pure delusion (unless you're a Muslim in America, that is). What they're actually experiencing is the power of Christianity and that establishment shinking. They are the religious equivalent of those white men who are freaking out because they are losing power in modern society.

Oh, and no, I'm not agnostic in any way, shape or form. I am definitely 100% Atheist, and I don't care who that bothers. I don't think the view you're expressing is logical. As I've said before, I know God doesn't exist the same way I know a giant polk-a-dotted, cottonball breathing dragon doesn't exist. I think that saying there is no way to know that god doesn't exist is a logical absurdity. Doesn't matter to me if others don't agree with my viewpoint. I hold it unwaveringly. And no, that is not equal to the other side of the coin.

a logical absurdity to me is thinking you know all of the secrets of the universe from your porch in vancouver.

i think saying you 'know' there is no higher power is just as ridiculous as someone saying they 'know' there is.

I don't think I know all the secrets of the universe, Mr. Sarcasm. I just know that just because something is made up by people I have no obligation to humour the idea, and I also think that to say believing in the existence of something ludicrous conjured up by people and not believing in the existence of something ludicrous conjured up by people are the same thing is extremely messed up logic. It makes no sense to act like the two are comparable.

i am not talking about religion. that is man made. the idea that everything has a creator is not. it is logic.

rgambs · January 2018

tbergs said:

cincybearcat said:

rgambs said:

cincybearcat said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

bootlegger10 said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

I don't believe in God either. My religious parents don't get me.

My parents are very religious. They've kept quiet for about 10 years but finally said something to me over the holidays. It really bothers them that I don't go to church. I feel bad because you never want to let down your parents. I don't know where I am at with it though. The religious person discredits evolution/big bang by saying what created the particles or whatever to make us (something from nothing?), and the atheist asks where did God come from?

Don't feel bad.
It would be insane to believe in something someone tells you to believe in when there is no evidence to prove its existence.
Plus, they're letting YOU down by forcing you into believing something you don't want to.

1) It’s not insane. It’s faith. And you do this too I’m sure in other areas where you believe what people say.
2) how are they letting him down...or forcing exactly?

i wasn’t at the conversation so I don’t know if it was a good conversation or judgmental. For those of faith they believe that the other will not go to heaven. So I’m sure it’s uosetting to think your kid will not be joining you. It’s all in how the conversation goes and the intent. Just because people talk about god or faith doesn’t make them wrong/evil.

It's easy to make the argument that faith IS insanity.
If you tweak the circumstances away from something that happens to be indoctrinated to the point where it's widely accepted, it begins to look incredibly insane.
If I start talking about faith in God it gives people fuzzy feelings so it can't be insane, but if I start talking about having faith that I AM God, it looks pretty insane.
Faith that the Earth is flat doesn't look very sane, faith in Scientology isn't usually regarded as highly sane.

Interesting points

That's taking it to one extreme and isn't much of a measuring point. Someone who believes in a God is more likely to get positive feelings from discussion because it is something they believe in. Much like you experiencing pleasant feelings and thoughts for Pearl Jam (or at least I am assuming based on your membership ) when they come up in a discussion. For any human to say they are a god should be considered insane for obvious reasons unless they can show proof through miracles or acts not capable by any other human being.

I don't see a difference.
If I say I have super powers you say "you are insane, unless you can prove it".
If I say there's an invisible man floating above me and HE has super powers, do you say "well I don't know, I can't prove him wrong so he might be sane." ?

HughFreakingDillon · January 2018

rgambs said:

tbergs said:

cincybearcat said:

rgambs said:

cincybearcat said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

bootlegger10 said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

I don't believe in God either. My religious parents don't get me.

My parents are very religious. They've kept quiet for about 10 years but finally said something to me over the holidays. It really bothers them that I don't go to church. I feel bad because you never want to let down your parents. I don't know where I am at with it though. The religious person discredits evolution/big bang by saying what created the particles or whatever to make us (something from nothing?), and the atheist asks where did God come from?

Don't feel bad.
It would be insane to believe in something someone tells you to believe in when there is no evidence to prove its existence.
Plus, they're letting YOU down by forcing you into believing something you don't want to.

1) It’s not insane. It’s faith. And you do this too I’m sure in other areas where you believe what people say.
2) how are they letting him down...or forcing exactly?

i wasn’t at the conversation so I don’t know if it was a good conversation or judgmental. For those of faith they believe that the other will not go to heaven. So I’m sure it’s uosetting to think your kid will not be joining you. It’s all in how the conversation goes and the intent. Just because people talk about god or faith doesn’t make them wrong/evil.

It's easy to make the argument that faith IS insanity.
If you tweak the circumstances away from something that happens to be indoctrinated to the point where it's widely accepted, it begins to look incredibly insane.
If I start talking about faith in God it gives people fuzzy feelings so it can't be insane, but if I start talking about having faith that I AM God, it looks pretty insane.
Faith that the Earth is flat doesn't look very sane, faith in Scientology isn't usually regarded as highly sane.

Interesting points

That's taking it to one extreme and isn't much of a measuring point. Someone who believes in a God is more likely to get positive feelings from discussion because it is something they believe in. Much like you experiencing pleasant feelings and thoughts for Pearl Jam (or at least I am assuming based on your membership ) when they come up in a discussion. For any human to say they are a god should be considered insane for obvious reasons unless they can show proof through miracles or acts not capable by any other human being.

I don't see a difference.
If I say I have super powers you say "you are insane, unless you can prove it".
If I say there's an invisible man floating above me and HE has super powers, do you say "well I don't know, I can't prove him wrong so he might be sane." ?

i see pretty obvious differences in those two situations.

rgambs · January 2018

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

tbergs said:

cincybearcat said:

rgambs said:

cincybearcat said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

bootlegger10 said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

I don't believe in God either. My religious parents don't get me.

My parents are very religious. They've kept quiet for about 10 years but finally said something to me over the holidays. It really bothers them that I don't go to church. I feel bad because you never want to let down your parents. I don't know where I am at with it though. The religious person discredits evolution/big bang by saying what created the particles or whatever to make us (something from nothing?), and the atheist asks where did God come from?

Don't feel bad.
It would be insane to believe in something someone tells you to believe in when there is no evidence to prove its existence.
Plus, they're letting YOU down by forcing you into believing something you don't want to.

1) It’s not insane. It’s faith. And you do this too I’m sure in other areas where you believe what people say.
2) how are they letting him down...or forcing exactly?

i wasn’t at the conversation so I don’t know if it was a good conversation or judgmental. For those of faith they believe that the other will not go to heaven. So I’m sure it’s uosetting to think your kid will not be joining you. It’s all in how the conversation goes and the intent. Just because people talk about god or faith doesn’t make them wrong/evil.

It's easy to make the argument that faith IS insanity.
If you tweak the circumstances away from something that happens to be indoctrinated to the point where it's widely accepted, it begins to look incredibly insane.
If I start talking about faith in God it gives people fuzzy feelings so it can't be insane, but if I start talking about having faith that I AM God, it looks pretty insane.
Faith that the Earth is flat doesn't look very sane, faith in Scientology isn't usually regarded as highly sane.

Interesting points

That's taking it to one extreme and isn't much of a measuring point. Someone who believes in a God is more likely to get positive feelings from discussion because it is something they believe in. Much like you experiencing pleasant feelings and thoughts for Pearl Jam (or at least I am assuming based on your membership ) when they come up in a discussion. For any human to say they are a god should be considered insane for obvious reasons unless they can show proof through miracles or acts not capable by any other human being.

I don't see a difference.
If I say I have super powers you say "you are insane, unless you can prove it".
If I say there's an invisible man floating above me and HE has super powers, do you say "well I don't know, I can't prove him wrong so he might be sane." ?

i see pretty obvious differences in those two situations.

Explain?

HughFreakingDillon · January 2018

one is verifiable. the other is not.

I don't believe in God

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