"The mind's eye"/Mental Visualization - Do you have Aphantasia??

lolobugg · December 2017

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

Ok, I don't want to freak you out, but I'm gonna lol

You realize now that the phrase "picture you naked" is literal?

oh, is it ever!

Oh my god, I hadn't even thought of that!!! ... Holy shit.... That is actually a little unsettling, lol. And totally unfair that I can't do the same, lol. I mean, I can think about it, but there's no mental picture. For me it is more like reading about a naked person... with no mental image (I'm not sure you guys know what it is like to read something without an accompanying mental picture though). Well now that trick for people who are afraid of public speaking makes so much more sense. "Just picture everyone naked." I always knew about that "trick" and always thought that it was the dumbest thing I ever heard - how could it be effective to just think about that? It really didn't make sense to me how people were getting anything about of such mental tricks. Huh. Now that I think about it, with terms like that, along with counting sheep, or go to your happy place, etc, I always did sense that maybe I was missing something, since others actually seemed to think it wasn't ludicrous and useless ... I just had no idea what I was missing (or maybe I thought people were, like, more gullible to their own thoughts than I am???). Now I know what I was missing. WOW.

Wow. reading these posts are really making me think. I can't literally picture anything in my mind either. the only time that happens is when I dream. I like you always thought that people weren't being literal about "counting sheep" etc.

I need to check that link that you posted. I might be one of the 1 in 50.

another thing that I have noticed is I trigger memories a lot easier with smell or aural stimuli than with looking at things... ie: old photos, etc.

now I am freaking myself out. need to check that link.

PJ_Soul · December 2017

BTW, thank you for discussing this with me you guys. My need to talk about it is very strong - I'm sure that might be annoying to those not as interested as me (still hoping for another person with aphantasia who is as surprised, shocked and intrigued as I am comes along here soon!). But for those willing to dissect it a bit, it is very appreciated! I'm finding that discussing it like this is really helpful in my figuring this all out, and understanding how others are perceiving things and thinking, and how I am as well.

lolobugg · December 2017

wow that was disturbing... I can't do any of the things they ask in that test.

PJ_Soul · December 2017

lolobugg said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

Ok, I don't want to freak you out, but I'm gonna lol

You realize now that the phrase "picture you naked" is literal?

oh, is it ever!

Oh my god, I hadn't even thought of that!!! ... Holy shit.... That is actually a little unsettling, lol. And totally unfair that I can't do the same, lol. I mean, I can think about it, but there's no mental picture. For me it is more like reading about a naked person... with no mental image (I'm not sure you guys know what it is like to read something without an accompanying mental picture though). Well now that trick for people who are afraid of public speaking makes so much more sense. "Just picture everyone naked." I always knew about that "trick" and always thought that it was the dumbest thing I ever heard - how could it be effective to just think about that? It really didn't make sense to me how people were getting anything about of such mental tricks. Huh. Now that I think about it, with terms like that, along with counting sheep, or go to your happy place, etc, I always did sense that maybe I was missing something, since others actually seemed to think it wasn't ludicrous and useless ... I just had no idea what I was missing (or maybe I thought people were, like, more gullible to their own thoughts than I am???). Now I know what I was missing. WOW.

Wow. reading these posts are really making me think. I can't literally picture anything in my mind either. the only time that happens is when I dream. I like you always thought that people weren't being literal about "counting sheep" etc.
I need to check that link that you posted. I might be one of the 1 in 50.
another thing that I have noticed is I trigger memories a lot easier with smell or aural stimuli than with looking at things... ie: old photos, etc.
now I am freaking myself out. need to check that link.

YAY!! ONE OF US! ONE OF US!

Seriously, if you are like me, this really is a big deal - a genuine shock for me .... And a really impactful moment in my life, honestly. Yes, please keep me posted. I'm really interested in hearing from others like me and what their thoughts are, about the emotional impact this realization has. I'm feeling a little lonely being thrown for a loop like this all alone (although there is a pretty solid FB group for people who have this revelation, which has been helpful).

PJ_Soul · December 2017

lolobugg said:

wow that was disturbing... I can't do any of the things they ask in that test.

Yeah, I agree, the moment of realizing that most people can do that and you can't is extremely disturbing. I also was very disturbed by the fact that I didn't KNOW other people were able to do that. What. The. Fuck.

lolobugg · December 2017

it hasn't freaked me out as much as it has you. but I can't believe I never realized this before.

need some time to digest it. the part about picturing someone and the guy says he "knows" what they are wearing, how their hair is braided, etc. but he can't picture the colours, shape of their face.... that is exactly what I see or don't see.

now I know why meditation hasn't worked... I can't picture a damn thing in my mind.

don't worry. I am sure there are a lot of us out there who just don't know it.

HesCalledDyer · December 2017

PJ_Soul said:

Right, I know it doesn't mean you see anything with your actual eyes. It's your mind's eye. I get the concept completely. I understand the difference. I do not see anything with my mind's eye at all. Like when I read about that boy with the freckles, no, I can't picture anything in my mind. It's just blackness in my mind's eye. Blackness I guess is the best way I can describe it. I would say it's nothingness... Maybe more accurate because it doesn't feel like my mind's eye isn't functioning properly. It's like I don't have one at all, and in its place is an internal monologue (not auditory) without picturing a thing. I can't fucking believe that you folks are able to actually picture stuff in your mind, lol.
One of my colleagues told me to "picture a triangle". Well, I can't. So he asked, well, what are you thinking about?? I just said that I was thinking about a triangle, what do you mean?? He asked me how big is it, and what colour is it? ... I don't fucking know. Whatever size or colour I feel like saying? I'd just be making it up, like just choosing how big it is and what colour it is randomly and just saying that? The question actually feels like a logical absurdity to me.

.... This is weird. I am getting the impression it must be pretty hard to understand how my mind is working for those who have a mind's eye. I think I can only better understand what you all mean by having one because I am fortunately still able to dream visually. I can't imagine what it's like for people with aphantasia who can't even dream visually. The mind's eye must be a bigger mystery to them.

Yeah, I totally get it. I think it is a rather odd phenomenon and I honestly had no idea that people could lack this ability. It's quite a interesting subject, for sure. And did I read write, it's a fairly recent discovery? Like, the name for it is only two years old? It will be interesting to see what other discoveries come from studies of this. Learning how the brain works is fascinating!

PJ_Soul · December 2017

HesCalledDyer said:

PJ_Soul said:

Right, I know it doesn't mean you see anything with your actual eyes. It's your mind's eye. I get the concept completely. I understand the difference. I do not see anything with my mind's eye at all. Like when I read about that boy with the freckles, no, I can't picture anything in my mind. It's just blackness in my mind's eye. Blackness I guess is the best way I can describe it. I would say it's nothingness... Maybe more accurate because it doesn't feel like my mind's eye isn't functioning properly. It's like I don't have one at all, and in its place is an internal monologue (not auditory) without picturing a thing. I can't fucking believe that you folks are able to actually picture stuff in your mind, lol.
One of my colleagues told me to "picture a triangle". Well, I can't. So he asked, well, what are you thinking about?? I just said that I was thinking about a triangle, what do you mean?? He asked me how big is it, and what colour is it? ... I don't fucking know. Whatever size or colour I feel like saying? I'd just be making it up, like just choosing how big it is and what colour it is randomly and just saying that? The question actually feels like a logical absurdity to me.

.... This is weird. I am getting the impression it must be pretty hard to understand how my mind is working for those who have a mind's eye. I think I can only better understand what you all mean by having one because I am fortunately still able to dream visually. I can't imagine what it's like for people with aphantasia who can't even dream visually. The mind's eye must be a bigger mystery to them.

Yeah, I totally get it. I think it is a rather odd phenomenon and I honestly had no idea that people could lack this ability. It's quite a interesting subject, for sure. And did I read write, it's a fairly recent discovery? Like, the name for it is only two years old? It will be interesting to see what other discoveries come from studies of this. Learning how the brain works is fascinating!

Yeah, apparently some guy did a study about it back in 1880, and then it was basically never considered again until 2013, and then finally i got a name in 2015. Amazing that there has been so little attention paid to it... I believe it's exactly because nobody had any idea that people could lack the ability, while those who lacked it had no idea it existed. That combo resulted in literally nobody talking about it I guess. Those with aphantasia just blissfully went around assuming anything that referenced the ability was a figurative term. In a way it's comical.

Thoughts_Arrive · December 2017

I often have these mental images of what you guys and girls all look like.
PJ_Soul, you are brunette with glasses.

PJ_Soul · December 2017

Thoughts_Arrive said:

I often have these mental images of what you guys and girls all look like.
PJ_Soul, you are brunette with glasses.

Wow, another interesting point. I hadn't considered the fact that you all have mental images of each other!
I am not brunette - I've got long, dark blond hair. Interestingly, I never wore glasses until maybe 2 months ago. I just got my first prescription (and I mostly only wear them at work or at a concert or movie). If you've had that mental image longer than that, maybe you're psychic!

PJ_Soul · December 2017

markymark550 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

markymark550 said:

I had never heard of this. Interesting though. I think it applies to me as well. Every time someone says "close your eyes and think of ____" all I see is black (or that reddish hue if you're directly facing a light source). I never see the object, but rather focus on the concept of the object. I had never considered that people can actually "see" images in their mind, but I don't find this to be some profound revelation though. It just is what it is.

well I don't "see" anything either. as I said to soul, I don't know if I'm understanding this correctly. the image is in my mind, not on the backs of my eyelids.

I don't get an image in my mind though. The dark/light through the eyelids just permeates through what I'm guessing is other people's mind eye.

PJ_Soul said:

markymark550 said:

I had never heard of this. Interesting though. I think it applies to me as well. Every time someone says "close your eyes and think of ____" all I see is black (or that reddish hue if you're directly facing a light source). I never see the object, but rather focus on the concept of the object. I had never considered that people can actually "see" images in their mind, but I don't find this to be some profound revelation though. It just is what it is.

Wow, really? Yeah, I'm finding it to be the most profound discovery of my entire life. It affects absolutely everything about me. How I process info, how I remember things, how I learn, memorize, recognize, read, write, speak, listen... fucking everything. Yes, it is what it is... which is everything!

Sorry I'm not more excited about it, but I tend to be pretty even keel over most things. Sure it has probably affected those things you mention, but at this point in my life I'm not looking for strategies to learn/memorize for school.

Fair enough. I am kind of a spaz, lol (although I'm not alone in my excitement, so I don't think it's uncalled for, which is comforting, ahah). I'm not really looking for strategies either, although that part interests me more in an academic, less personal way. Same with just all the concepts involved as far as brain function goes. I think my personal interest more lies in understanding other people and the way they think compared to me, how that shapes perception, knowledge, impressions of the world, art, music, and literature appreciation, and not memorization, but actual emotional memory formation and retrieving memories from my life, of people I know, facial recognition tactics, language abilities, etc. But yeah, hey, if you're happy not thinking about it too much more power to ya.

eeriepadave · December 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5-FsZc_Als

brianlux · December 2017

A little off topic, I suppose, but what this reminds me of is that some people have a great ability to visualize something that is not there. For example, if I see a room that is arranged in a way that is pleasing to me, I know it right away. But give me an empty room and ask me to fill it with familiar objects, and I'm pretty much at a loss. I will break my back moving every piece of furniture and putting every picture on every wall in every possible combination before I can say, "Ah ha! That looks good!" Makes me crazy!

PJ_Soul · December 2017

eeriepadave said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5-FsZc_Als

I forgot all about Wolfmother and haven't listened to them in years - thanks for the reminder! That is a solid song!

PJ_Soul · December 2017

brianlux said:

A little off topic, I suppose, but what this reminds me of is that some people have a great ability to visualize something that is not there. For example, if I see a room that is arranged in a way that is pleasing to me, I know it right away. But give me an empty room and ask me to fill it with familiar objects, and I'm pretty much at a loss. I will break my back moving every piece of furniture and putting every picture on every wall in every possible combination before I can say, "Ah ha! That looks good!" Makes me crazy!

Sounds like you have an issue with spatial visualization maybe?? Have you ever taken a spatial visualization test? There are many of them online.

jnimhaoileoin · December 2017

I don't really understand. Do you mean that if I asked you to picture your mother in your head, you wouldn't be able to remember what she looks like and visualise it in your mind (like seeing a photograph)?

amethgr8 · December 2017

Self discovery is a great thing!

I learned people don't thing the same, hear the same, etc. We are all different in so many ways and it can be our asset or liability based on how we live and learn.

to learn a new character or symbol, I would look at the board or book example and just copy. Once that symbol was committed to memory (which is different than ability to visualize) I am able to reproduce it. I can visualize images in my head, but cannot reproduce them in a painting or drawing. I know what Bart Simpson looks like but not so much I can reproduce it, not sure I could accurately describe it.

i can imagine myself flying like super an, riding a horse, a wide variety of things. If you give me a blank room and tell me to build my dream kitchen, I have a hard time imagining my perfect kitchen. If I had multiple choice of kitchens, I could pick one.

fwiw pj soul, I think your posts are of the most insightful, sensitive and down to earth as anyone with a different way of thinking.

PJ_Soul · December 2017

jnimhaoileoin said:

I don't really understand. Do you mean that if I asked you to picture your mother in your head, you wouldn't be able to remember what she looks like and visualise it in your mind (like seeing a photograph)?

I remember what she looks like, but I can't visualize it at all. No imagery in my mind whatsoever. I just kind of .... know what she looks like. I don't know how else to describe it. To me if feels normal, but I completely understand how this might be hard to conceive for almost everyone else, now that I know how other people think. It's crazy.

RogueStoner · December 2017

chadwick said:

never heard of this. i'm having a difficult time grasping this condition. for me, i'm bombarded, i've nonstop movies goin on.

Me too! Perfect way to describe it...like nonstop movies. I'm sure you've read about some of them. Imagine what you'd all think if I shared all the visions in my mind.

I never knew this existed, so its interesting to know how people "see" (or don't see) things. I've come to rely so much on what I see in my mind...can't imagine life without it. But it has major drawbacks. Like when I'm reading a news story and I can "see" the accident, the abuse, whatever it may be. That part is awful. And very invasive.

amethgr8 · December 2017

A farmer told me a story how he put his ailing, aged dog down, himself, didn't believe in paying a vet for that. I could not get the image out of my mind for days.

Midnight Meat Train gave me bad dreams for a few days. Good and bad in everything.

"The mind's eye"/Mental Visualization - Do you have Aphantasia??

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