as for optics, I get the feeling that ed, and maybe all of them, give zero fucks these days about optics. just a feeling I get from things each guy has said in interviews over the last 8-10 years.
"every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"
Yeah, but not railing against Trump isn't the same as playing a Trump rally, right? I'm pretty sure most of us actually would be outraged if they did that, lol.
I agree none of us can know exactly how they feel. We are certainly free to surmise, guess, debate, ponder, hypothesize, and talk about how their actions make us feel. Also, for famous public figure/performers, optics and actions do mean something. Let's not pretend that Eddie is a regular private citizen. Of course his actions mean something to his fans. That is what he entered into when he decided to put himself out there, and especially when he decided to be so outspoken about politics and the role of corporations in society, and doubly-especially when he addressed such issues in his art, which, of course, he still performs, meaning he still broadcasts such views... When his actions contradict the messages he is still putting out there, yeah, obviously some people are going to react to that contradiction.
well, again, you are ASSUMING his actions contradict his message. you don't know that. nobody here does. that's part of the point.
edit to add: and the thing here is, Ed doesn't go on and on about how all corporations are bad. that was part of what got lost in the "controversy" about them sliding into bed with Target to get Backspacer distributed. Stone came right out and said they did a lot of exhaustive research about who to choose for this, but people see 'pearl jam' and 'big corporation' and automatically jump to these conclusions that they sold out, when in fact they chose the best company they thought possible to get their product to the masses. people not involved have zero clue.
Yes. I think that his actions contradict his message. That is actually all that matters to me. I'm not sure how anyone can dispute that given the evidence, but hey, if you do, then have at it. You have as much right to not think that he's sold out in some ways as I do to think he has. (I still love him though. Nobody's perfect. I am able to be disappointed by someone and still like them)
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
well, I guess if knowledge and context of the situation mean nothing to you, then I suppose you can think that all you want. LOL
Knowledge and context do mean something to me. That is why I think the way I do. I know what he has said about corporations over the years, I know his lyrics, I know how he plays private corporate gigs now, which clearly contradicts his stance on corporations that he's expressed very openly over a long period of time. What more information do I need to form an opinion? I would say I'm basing my opinion on more facts that you are. All you're doing is giving him the benefit of the doubt. I personally haven't found a reason to do so in this context. Both perspectives are fair IMO. It doesn't bother me that you think the way you do about it.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
well, I guess if knowledge and context of the situation mean nothing to you, then I suppose you can think that all you want. LOL
Knowledge and context do mean something to me. That is why I think the way I do. I know what he has said about corporations over the years, I know his lyrics, I know how he plays private corporate gigs now. What more information do I need to form this opinion?
so every corporation and every situation is the same to you? "I hate BC Amoco" means "I hate all big corporations and everything associated with them"? to me, it's case by case.
and this wasn't a private corp gig anyways for execs and their families. it was an exclusive event for citi members that citi has started with a partnership with live nation. mumford and sons have played it, so has sting, metallica, beck, etc.
is this any different than Third Man holding smaller gigs through their exclusive membership? not in my eyes.
maybe he just wants to play a smaller gig where people aren't yelling out "EVEN FLOW!" and "I LOVE YOU EDDIE!!" every 10 seconds.
"every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"
My, my, my, how times have changed. There was a time when Pearl Jam and Eddie were against all things corporate. Corporate logos, and flying Billboards Adds over their shows, advertising during shows like blimps and things Clear Channel ads. Now they endorsed credit cards companies, home entertainment systems, what's next? Maybe we'll see Eddie featured in a Cadillac commercial soon.
Who cares? Good for him. This is a business. If you don’t like it, don’t buy into it. Did he get paid? Fuck yes he did, you know why? Because this is his JOB.
One of the biggest draws for Pearl Jam fans early on was the anti corporate giant posturing. On many many occasions Ed would stand up vilify giant greedy corporations. He didn't like the word Ford being on banners associated with the venue that they were playing at for goodness sakes. On one of my bootlegs they were getting ready to play I got Shit. Okay then he said "I'm in in too good of a mood to play such a depressing song. I'm so happy.". 2 seconds later he spots a advertisement for Clear Channel and said now I'm depressed that's perfect." Then played the song I got Shit/ID. So don't go back and pretend like that didn't happen. I love Pearl Jam but if he needs to be called out on some hypocrisy so be it. Don't put a band or anyone so high that they can't be criticized
ugh. not this shit again. he was in his 20's and angry with the world. people grow up and gain perspective. over two decades ago. TWO DECADES. they/he haven't been outward critics of big corporations for a VERY LONG TIME. they've moved on to more important things. they realize that just bitching about big box stores is not as effective as actually doing something good, which is what they do now, to my knowledge.
and this is funny: "one of the biggest draws for Pearl Jam fans early on was the anti-corporate giant posturing". Really? I always thought it was the music people liked.
and as someone else stated, no one knows the context of this. this could have been for charity, it could have been a favour for a good friend, it could have been a big fat paycheck that he wanted. no one knows. so just blankly criticizing something when you have no idea what you are talking about for no other reason than a corporate logo attached to it is just downright silly.
People didn't worship Eddie Vedder and Kurt Cobain because they could sing and write great songs. Lots of artists can do that and never make it big. They were on the cover of Time because of the message in their music and their rebellion against society.
Not disagreeing on your overall point but I do think that their social stance turned a lot of their music fans into die hard fans.
Sure we worshipped them over the music. I was 11 when I heard both bands, you think I gave a shit about what they stood for? They were angry and amazing and I wanted to hear the music. My mind has changed a lot over the last 2 decades as well.
Post edited by Foriginal Sin on
Chicago 6/29/98, Alpine Valley(EV) 6/13/99, Alpine Valley 10/08/00, Chicago 10/09/00, Phoenix 10/20/00, Orlando 4/12/03, Tampa 4/13/03, San Diego 6/05/03, Vegas 6/06/03, Phoenix 6/07/03, Chicago 6/18/03, Alpine Valley 6/21/03, Orlando 10/08/04, D.C. 10/11/04, Chicago 5/16/06, Chicago 5/17/06, LA 7/12/08, Chicago 8/23/09, Chicago 8/24/09, LA 10/07/09, San Diego 10/09/09 (Front Row Center, Finally), Phoenix(EV) 11/4/11, Wrigley 7/19/13, Phoenix 11/19/13, Denver 10/22/14, Wrigley 8/20/16, Wrigley 8/22/16
well, I guess if knowledge and context of the situation mean nothing to you, then I suppose you can think that all you want. LOL
Knowledge and context do mean something to me. That is why I think the way I do. I know what he has said about corporations over the years, I know his lyrics, I know how he plays private corporate gigs now. What more information do I need to form this opinion?
so every corporation and every situation is the same to you? "I hate BC Amoco" means "I hate all big corporations and everything associated with them"? to me, it's case by case.
and this wasn't a private corp gig anyways for execs and their families. it was an exclusive event for citi members that citi has started with a partnership with live nation. mumford and sons have played it, so has sting, metallica, beck, etc.
is this any different than Third Man holding smaller gigs through their exclusive membership? not in my eyes.
maybe he just wants to play a smaller gig where people aren't yelling out "EVEN FLOW!" and "I LOVE YOU EDDIE!!" every 10 seconds.
I don't think it's necessary to get deep into our complex feelings about corporations here, or how we relate Eddie's past opposition to them. It is really besides the point in this thread. I think we can both just take it for granted that we have an established belief system as far as that goes, and we apply whatever that may be to our perspective about how Eddie's attitude has changed over the years.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Totally a different topic, but yeah, man, from what I've heard on many boots and videos, and from testimonials from those who were an attendance, a lot of the fans at EV solo shows seem pretty unbearable. If I'm ever lucky enough to attend his show, I might have to take an Ativan or something before going in just to deal with all the stupid idiots in the crowd who can't shut the fuck up and don't understand how to read the room, haha.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Maybe he does these to raise money for the many charities he's a part of.
This is has been my feeling for the stuff they/he have done over the past 10 years or so. On top of it, he’s been involved in the music business and charities and Hollywood or whatever for almost 30 years. I think he realizes at this point you gain more by playing the game.
He he may go back to Citibank or BOA or wherever he played and said, he I need some help for this EB fundraiser I’m doing and we need a sponsor.
Totally a different topic, but yeah, man, from what I've heard on many boots and videos, and from testimonials from those who were an attendance, a lot of the fans at EV solo shows seem pretty unbearable. If I'm ever lucky enough to attend his show, I might have to take an Ativan or something before going in just to deal with all the stupid idiots in the crowd who can't shut the fuck up and don't understand how to read the room, haha.
I can't see what SC posted. my confusion was at your post about "complex feelings about corporations".
I have been to Ed solo, and it's brutal the idiots that yell that shit out. it's ridiculous.
"every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"
Totally a different topic, but yeah, man, from what I've heard on many boots and videos, and from testimonials from those who were an attendance, a lot of the fans at EV solo shows seem pretty unbearable. If I'm ever lucky enough to attend his show, I might have to take an Ativan or something before going in just to deal with all the stupid idiots in the crowd who can't shut the fuck up and don't understand how to read the room, haha.
I can't see what SC posted. my confusion was at your post about "complex feelings about corporations".
I have been to Ed solo, and it's brutal the idiots that yell that shit out. it's ridiculous.
Oh. I don't know what you're confused about then. Aren't your feelings and viewpoints about corporations and their role in society and government and your own life complex? Mine are. And the issue itself is extremely complex as well.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Maybe he does these to raise money for the many charities he's a part of.
This is has been my feeling for the stuff they/he have done over the past 10 years or so. On top of it, he’s been involved in the music business and charities and Hollywood or whatever for almost 30 years. I think he realizes at this point you gain more by playing the game.
He he may go back to Citibank or BOA or wherever he played and said, he I need some help for this EB fundraiser I’m doing and we need a sponsor.
its just the way the world works.
And therein lies the problem.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Totally a different topic, but yeah, man, from what I've heard on many boots and videos, and from testimonials from those who were an attendance, a lot of the fans at EV solo shows seem pretty unbearable. If I'm ever lucky enough to attend his show, I might have to take an Ativan or something before going in just to deal with all the stupid idiots in the crowd who can't shut the fuck up and don't understand how to read the room, haha.
I can't see what SC posted. my confusion was at your post about "complex feelings about corporations".
I have been to Ed solo, and it's brutal the idiots that yell that shit out. it's ridiculous.
I swore off EV solo shows after the drunk asshole fest that was Hartford 2011--Glen Hansard even said he'd like to beat the piss out of the entire disrespectful crowd if he didn't have a job to do (paraphrasing)--but then EV had a couple of solo shows during our scheduled trip to Italy at an amazeballs venue. We just had to give it another shot.
What a difference being in a more civilized country makes. People actually shushed each other when the crowd noise got too loud. My wife even recorded the shushing. It was awesome.
I'll still never see an EV solo show in the US again. And it sounds like Canadian crowds might be a bit much, too.
Totally a different topic, but yeah, man, from what I've heard on many boots and videos, and from testimonials from those who were an attendance, a lot of the fans at EV solo shows seem pretty unbearable. If I'm ever lucky enough to attend his show, I might have to take an Ativan or something before going in just to deal with all the stupid idiots in the crowd who can't shut the fuck up and don't understand how to read the room, haha.
I can't see what SC posted. my confusion was at your post about "complex feelings about corporations".
I have been to Ed solo, and it's brutal the idiots that yell that shit out. it's ridiculous.
Oh. I don't know what you're confused about then. Aren't your feelings and viewpoints about corporations and their role in society and government and your own life complex? Mine are. And the issue itself is extremely complex as well.
I was confused because I wasn't suggesting going "deep into our complex feelings about corporations". that comment seemed to come out of left field.
All I basically am saying is I am not willing to form an opinion based on the zero information we have about this specific situation, but you are.
"every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"
People change. People grow. Your cares change. Things matter more now vs then. Selling out? Not really. I happily work for the man. Feeds my wife. Feeds my kids. Ed probably has his own financial goals. More power to him.
I know im not the same person i was ten years ago. Even five years ago.
Totally a different topic, but yeah, man, from what I've heard on many boots and videos, and from testimonials from those who were an attendance, a lot of the fans at EV solo shows seem pretty unbearable. If I'm ever lucky enough to attend his show, I might have to take an Ativan or something before going in just to deal with all the stupid idiots in the crowd who can't shut the fuck up and don't understand how to read the room, haha.
I can't see what SC posted. my confusion was at your post about "complex feelings about corporations".
I have been to Ed solo, and it's brutal the idiots that yell that shit out. it's ridiculous.
Oh. I don't know what you're confused about then. Aren't your feelings and viewpoints about corporations and their role in society and government and your own life complex? Mine are. And the issue itself is extremely complex as well.
I was confused because I wasn't suggesting going "deep into our complex feelings about corporations". that comment seemed to come out of left field.
All I basically am saying is I am not willing to form an opinion based on the zero information we have about this specific situation, but you are.
For me to answer your question I would have had to go deep into the topic in order to explain myself properly. It wasn't out of left field.
And no, I don't have zero info about Eddie and his public declarations and public behaviour over the years. I have drawn my own conclusions based on that info though, yes. And that seems okay to me. I don't see why anyone should mind that I do that.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
and this wasn't a private corp gig anyways for execs and their families. it was an exclusive event for citi members that citi has started with a partnership with live nation. mumford and sons have played it, so has sting, metallica, beck, etc.
is this any different than Third Man holding smaller gigs through their exclusive membership? not in my eyes.
maybe he just wants to play a smaller gig where people aren't yelling out "EVEN FLOW!" and "I LOVE YOU EDDIE!!" every 10 seconds.
Totally a different topic, but yeah, man, from what I've heard on many boots and videos, and from testimonials from those who were an attendance, a lot of the fans at EV solo shows seem pretty unbearable. If I'm ever lucky enough to attend his show, I might have to take an Ativan or something before going in just to deal with all the stupid idiots in the crowd who can't shut the fuck up and don't understand how to read the room, haha.
This is has been my feeling for the stuff they/he have done over the past 10 years or so. On top of it, he’s been involved in the music business and charities and Hollywood or whatever for almost 30 years. I think he realizes at this point you gain more by playing the game.
He he may go back to Citibank or BOA or wherever he played and said, he I need some help for this EB fundraiser I’m doing and we need a sponsor.
its just the way the world works.
I have been to Ed solo, and it's brutal the idiots that yell that shit out. it's ridiculous.
What a difference being in a more civilized country makes. People actually shushed each other when the crowd noise got too loud. My wife even recorded the shushing. It was awesome.
I'll still never see an EV solo show in the US again. And it sounds like Canadian crowds might be a bit much, too.
All I basically am saying is I am not willing to form an opinion based on the zero information we have about this specific situation, but you are.
I know im not the same person i was ten years ago. Even five years ago.
And no, I don't have zero info about Eddie and his public declarations and public behaviour over the years. I have drawn my own conclusions based on that info though, yes. And that seems okay to me. I don't see why anyone should mind that I do that.