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Okay.... but don't you think it's more accurate for a lot of people that he LOST perspective rather than gained it? To say he gained perspective suggests that his current outlook is somehow more enlightened... IMO, in this day and age, to not be anti-corporation is a much less enlightened viewpoint, not a wiser view. If Eddie doesn't care anymore, okay, but I am not willing in any way to suggest that that means he has found some kind of positive outlook on things. On the contrary... to me it says that he has just given in to the bullshit. That is his prerogative. I'm just surprised anyone expects others to embrace that after Eddie railed against it for years and made it a major driving force behind the music he wrote. To me it seems totally justified and reasonable that a lot of fans would be disappointed by Eddie's acceptance of corporate America, while corporate America steadily destroys so many things and keeps growing economic disparity. I think it's fair that some are sad that Eddie no longer cares about that.... I think it's very easy not to care about that stuff when you're filthy rich.HughFreakingDillon said:ugh. not this shit again. he was in his 20's and angry with the world. people grow up and gain perspective. over two decades ago. TWO DECADES. they/he haven't been outward critics of big corporations for a VERY LONG TIME. they've moved on to more important things. they realize that just bitching about big box stores is not as effective as actually doing something good, which is what they do now, to my knowledge.
and this is funny: "one of the biggest draws for Pearl Jam fans early on was the anti-corporate giant posturing". Really? I always thought it was the music people liked.
and as someone else stated, no one knows the context of this. this could have been for charity, it could have been a favour for a good friend, it could have been a big fat paycheck that he wanted. no one knows. so just blankly criticizing something when you have no idea what you are talking about for no other reason than a corporate logo attached to it is just downright silly.
Post edited by PJ_Soul onWith all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
no, age and experience changes people. having a family can change your perspective, and not necessarily change your stance on issues, but changes how you address them. and as I said, just ranting and raving from a stage maybe he felt that wasn't the best way to go about things. he seems more inclined to be positive in his stage messages rather than divisive. I don't know the man. I don't claim to know his prerogative on anything. But I cant assume he's "given in to the bullshit". Why would that be the go-to? that would be a pretty big 180 to make. I would suggest maybe he's just more "bigger picture" than he was before. or even smaller picture, as in, stuff closer to home.PJ_Soul said:
Okay.... but don't you think it's more accurate for a lot of people that he LOST perspective rather than gained it? To say he gained perspective suggests that his current outlook is somehow more enlightened... IMO, in this day and age, to not be anti-corporation is a much less enlightened viewpoint, not a wiser view. If Eddie doesn't care anymore, okay, but I am not willing in any way to suggest that that means he has found some kind of positive outlook on things. On the contrary... to me it says that he has just given in to the bullshit. That is his prerogative. I'm just surprised anyone expects others to embrace that after Eddie railed against it for years and made it a major driving force behind the music he wrote.
changing your perspective doesn't necessarily mean losing it or gaining it. it can mean both or neither. he seems to choose different fights than he did before. I honestly don't care either way. if he's found peace and doesn't want to fight what he fought before, do what you want (as you also stated). it just seems to me that people feel some sort of betrayal in the message, like they lost their spiritual leader or something. Like when Forrest Gump stopped running and went home. I don't get the feeling Ed ever wanted to be any type of leader, he just wanted to bring issues to the masses so they could do what they wanted with that information since he was the guy with the microphone.
I just don't get the outrage.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
I'm not arguing that age and experience doesn't change people, but it's not like it always causes people to abandon their principles about things like the harm done by Corporate America. I don't think it's really reasonable to say that Eddie's stance hasn't changed when he's playing private corporate gigs. I mean, him doing that definitely tells us that this isn't just about how he's addressing that issue. It tells us that he doesn't care about it anymore, or at least not enough to not play along with them and to take money for performing his art for them. I do think him doing that shows us that he doesn't care (aka given in to it). You can't say he hasn't, just like you couldn't say that David Suzuki doing a paid book signing at a Kinder Morgan event wasn't a sign that Suzuki had given in to a pipeline company.
I am aware that changing your perspective doesn't necessarily mean losing it or gaining it... But it often does, and I think that is the case for Eddie. And FWIW, Eddie did a lot more than rant and rave on stage. That was never his only method of addressing issues. And I don't think he ever "ranted and raved". That poorly characterizes what his intent was IMO.
I always had the impression that Eddie simply wanted to spread the good word, and to change people's perspectives that he thought needed changing. He definitely stood up and declared himself an agent of change, and he still does in other ways. I totally disagree that his behaviour suggested that he didn't mind what the masses did with that information either way. I think he always made it very clear what he hoped people would do with the information.
... As for outrage. I don't think any outrage is being expressed by anyone, and I think you are exaggerating the meaning behind people talking about this. Just because people don't like it it doesn't mean they are acting like they lost their spiritual leader. That's very dramatic, lol. I think people are expressing disappointment and perhaps disillusionment about someone they used to see as sharing their own perspectives. And I think they are justified in that. It's not like being older and having kids makes doing private corporate gigs and abandoning ethical stances through action a given. I personally think that is a really lame excuse actually.
Post edited by PJ_Soul onWith all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
I think fans have the right to be disappointed in Pearl Jam/Vedder turning into a corporate gig-playing band.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
I think your post above makes so many assumptions I'm not even sure where to begin, so I'll just say this:
without asking Ed himself, or knowing him personally, or knowing the circumstances surrounding this gig, everyone is assuming he has "abandoned his principles" with very little to no information. that's my point. I am not saying he did, or saying he didn't either way. I'm saying no one here knows and everyone jumps on the "Ed is a hypocrite" bandwagon. and it happens constantly. I think the disappointment is disproportionate to the knowledge of what this is.
Ed has always said "I don't care how you vote, just vote". sometimes he speaks to specific causes (animals rights, female reproductive rights, etc), but most of the time I think he is just passionate about not being ignorant.
I don't think anyone can be justified in any type of disappointment or disillusionment without knowing the facts. and we likely will never get any.
I think these guys have shown how passionate they are about causes, in the foundations they have started and participate in, how much money they give to those and other causes, so I have no reason to believe that he all of a sudden doesn't give a shit.
But again, if he doesn't, so be it. Live your life. Even if his perspective has changed, doesn't make him a hypocrite. he'd be a hypcocrite if he still went ranting and raving about big corporations and then played a paid corporate gig for nothing else but a payday. but he hasn't done that in YEARS, and people still hold onto this idea of swinging-from-the-rafters-frothing-at-the-mouth Eddie. that Ed no longer exists, and hasn't for a long time. it's their own nostalgia that feeds this false ideal.
Does anyone here really believe that ed, in his financial state, would take a gig against his personal philosophies? that simply makes zero sense. Zero.
By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
None of us know exactly how Ed or the band feels, thinks or are as people. We've used their music to gain some insight. Just because Ed and the band don't rail against Trump and make a song about him doesn't mean they are any less outraged than when Bush was in office.
What I glean from all of this is that Ed and the band have decided when, how and what they can do to impact the change they have always wanted in a less ostracizing way. Whether it be with the environment, politics, corporatization(?), social justice, etc. They also have some pretty powerful friends in some of these organizations after all these years and they can help affect change instead of pissing all over the entire group and having no impact. Not every person working for a corporation is bad and there are several people trying to make change to improve the situation.
I was an angst ridden teen working in a grocery store when I got in to Pearl Jam and loved their music and the message it sent because it was who I felt like at the time. I still love the music, but I don't need Ed to jump off of scaffolding or Stone to testify against a corporation to know they still have passion and energy about the world they live in. I work in an office now and do the best I can to make positive impacts and influence change from within based on the position I hold. I'm not going to boycott a meeting with some jackass I don't like because that sure as shit isn't going to make them think twice about their actions or get any support from my colleagues. You stay in the room.
Anyway, if Ed or any of the band want to use their art to deliver a great experience to fans, cheers to that! Just keep playing music.
It's a hopeless situation...0 -
So based on this thread, PJ should title their next album; The Who Sold Out So We Did Too! smhIt's a hopeless situation...0
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Yeah, but not railing against Trump isn't the same as playing a Trump rally, right? I'm pretty sure most of us actually would be outraged if they did that, lol.
I agree none of us can know exactly how they feel. We are certainly free to surmise, guess, debate, ponder, hypothesize, and talk about how their actions make us feel. Also, for famous public figure/performers, optics and actions do mean something. Let's not pretend that Eddie is a regular private citizen. Of course his actions mean something to his fans. That is what he entered into when he decided to put himself out there, and especially when he decided to be so outspoken about politics and the role of corporations in society, and doubly-especially when he addressed such issues in his art, which, of course, he still performs, meaning he still broadcasts such views... When his actions contradict the messages he is still putting out there, yeah, obviously some people are going to react to that contradiction.
Post edited by PJ_Soul onWith all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
Agreed. I posted about the same thing before I saw this.HughFreakingDillon said:I think your post above makes so many assumptions I'm not even sure where to begin, so I'll just say this:
without asking Ed himself, or knowing him personally, or knowing the circumstances surrounding this gig, everyone is assuming he has "abandoned his principles" with very little to no information. that's my point. I am not saying he did, or saying he didn't either way. I'm saying no one here knows and everyone jumps on the "Ed is a hypocrite" bandwagon. and it happens constantly. I think the disappointment is disproportionate to the knowledge of what this is.
Ed has always said "I don't care how you vote, just vote". sometimes he speaks to specific causes (animals rights, female reproductive rights, etc), but most of the time I think he is just passionate about not being ignorant.
I don't think anyone can be justified in any type of disappointment or disillusionment without knowing the facts. and we likely will never get any.
I think these guys have shown how passionate they are about causes, in the foundations they have started and participate in, how much money they give to those and other causes, so I have no reason to believe that he all of a sudden doesn't give a shit.
But again, if he doesn't, so be it. Live your life. Even if his perspective has changed, doesn't make him a hypocrite. he'd be a hypcocrite if he still went ranting and raving about big corporations and then played a paid corporate gig for nothing else but a payday. but he hasn't done that in YEARS, and people still hold onto this idea of swinging-from-the-rafters-frothing-at-the-mouth Eddie. that Ed no longer exists, and hasn't for a long time. it's their own nostalgia that feeds this false ideal.
Does anyone here really believe that ed, in his financial state, would take a gig against his personal philosophies? that simply makes zero sense. Zero.It's a hopeless situation...0 -
well, again, you are ASSUMING his actions contradict his message. you don't know that. nobody here does. that's part of the point.PJ_Soul said:Yeah, but not railing against Trump isn't the same as playing a Trump rally, right? I'm pretty sure most of us actually would be outraged if they did that, lol.
I agree none of us can know exactly how they feel. We are certainly free to surmise, guess, debate, ponder, hypothesize, and talk about how their actions make us feel. Also, for famous public figure/performers, optics and actions do mean something. Let's not pretend that Eddie is a regular private citizen. Of course his actions mean something to his fans. That is what he entered into when he decided to put himself out there, and especially when he decided to be so outspoken about politics and the role of corporations in society, and doubly-especially when he addressed such issues in his art, which, of course, he still performs, meaning he still broadcasts such views... When his actions contradict the messages he is still putting out there, yeah, obviously some people are going to react to that contradiction.
edit to add: and the thing here is, Ed doesn't go on and on about how all corporations are bad. that was part of what got lost in the "controversy" about them sliding into bed with Target to get Backspacer distributed. Stone came right out and said they did a lot of exhaustive research about who to choose for this, but people see 'pearl jam' and 'big corporation' and automatically jump to these conclusions that they sold out, when in fact they chose the best company they thought possible to get their product to the masses. people not involved have zero clue.Post edited by HughFreakingDillon onBy The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
as for optics, I get the feeling that ed, and maybe all of them, give zero fucks these days about optics. just a feeling I get from things each guy has said in interviews over the last 8-10 years.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0
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They licensed a song for the Friends finale - AND IT ALL WENT DOWNHILL FROM THERE!
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
Can you imagine the shitstorm on here if and when PJ allows their music to be used for ...dare I say it....tv commercials!!!!
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Yes. I think that his actions contradict his message. That is actually all that matters to me. I'm not sure how anyone can dispute that given the evidence, but hey, if you do, then have at it. You have as much right to not think that he's sold out in some ways as I do to think he has. (I still love him though. Nobody's perfect. I am able to be disappointed by someone and still like them)HughFreakingDillon said:well, again, you are ASSUMING his actions contradict his message. you don't know that. nobody here does. that's part of the point.
edit to add: and the thing here is, Ed doesn't go on and on about how all corporations are bad. that was part of what got lost in the "controversy" about them sliding into bed with Target to get Backspacer distributed. Stone came right out and said they did a lot of exhaustive research about who to choose for this, but people see 'pearl jam' and 'big corporation' and automatically jump to these conclusions that they sold out, when in fact they chose the best company they thought possible to get their product to the masses. people not involved have zero clue.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
well, I guess if knowledge and context of the situation mean nothing to you, then I suppose you can think that all you want. LOLBy The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0
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Knowledge and context do mean something to me. That is why I think the way I do. I know what he has said about corporations over the years, I know his lyrics, I know how he plays private corporate gigs now, which clearly contradicts his stance on corporations that he's expressed very openly over a long period of time. What more information do I need to form an opinion? I would say I'm basing my opinion on more facts that you are. All you're doing is giving him the benefit of the doubt. I personally haven't found a reason to do so in this context. Both perspectives are fair IMO. It doesn't bother me that you think the way you do about it.HughFreakingDillon said:well, I guess if knowledge and context of the situation mean nothing to you, then I suppose you can think that all you want. LOL
Post edited by PJ_Soul onWith all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
People change - reasons created that weren't there before. Such rigid thinking by a lot of you.
www.cluthelee.com0 -
Yes, people change. Does that mean we all have to like the change? No.2-feign-reluctance said:People change - reasons created that weren't there before. Such rigid thinking by a lot of you.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
so every corporation and every situation is the same to you? "I hate BC Amoco" means "I hate all big corporations and everything associated with them"? to me, it's case by case.PJ_Soul said:Knowledge and context do mean something to me. That is why I think the way I do. I know what he has said about corporations over the years, I know his lyrics, I know how he plays private corporate gigs now. What more information do I need to form this opinion?
and this wasn't a private corp gig anyways for execs and their families. it was an exclusive event for citi members that citi has started with a partnership with live nation. mumford and sons have played it, so has sting, metallica, beck, etc.
is this any different than Third Man holding smaller gigs through their exclusive membership? not in my eyes.
maybe he just wants to play a smaller gig where people aren't yelling out "EVEN FLOW!" and "I LOVE YOU EDDIE!!" every 10 seconds.
By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
Sure we worshipped them over the music. I was 11 when I heard both bands, you think I gave a shit about what they stood for? They were angry and amazing and I wanted to hear the music. My mind has changed a lot over the last 2 decades as well.bootlegger10 said:People didn't worship Eddie Vedder and Kurt Cobain because they could sing and write great songs. Lots of artists can do that and never make it big. They were on the cover of Time because of the message in their music and their rebellion against society.
Not disagreeing on your overall point but I do think that their social stance turned a lot of their music fans into die hard fans.
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