America's Gun Violence

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

CM189191 said:

PJPOWER said:

dignin said:

So much paranoia, but I am starting to understand the fear that is behind Americas gun violence problem. Very educational.

Aware=Paranoid...thanks for the lesson professor.  Paranoid is being afraid of going to a concert because you think you will get shot.  Aware is going to a concert and having the essentials basic knowledge to help you not panic if something does happen.  In CCW class, I was taught to “live in the yellow”.  Do not be in the red where you are paranoid everywhere you go that something is going to happen.  Do not be in the green where you are unaware of any risks and think nothing could possibly ever happen to you.  

Why do we need to treat the two concepts as mutually exclusive? Why not implement real reforms that will actually address causes of violent crime while also passing laws intended solely to stick it to the gun nuts?

Why frame it that way?

CM189191 said:

PJPOWER said:

dignin said:

PJPOWER said:

dignin said:

So much paranoia, but I am starting to understand the fear that is behind Americas gun violence problem. Very educational.

Aware=Paranoid...thanks for the lesson professor 

You're awareness wouldn't have helped you in the middle of the dance floor in Orlando when fired on from an assault weapon....or in the middle of a theater in Colorado.....or at an outdoor concert in Las Vegas. 

It most definitely coukd have and there are several examples of people saving lives by being aware of their surroundings/exits and knowing how to stop bleeding, etc.  Those people that were aware and trained saved countless lives.  Imagine if more were.

Solution to gun violence : train everyone to become a paramedic - problem solved!

or run and leave everyone else behind. personal responsibility 

PJPOWER said:

dignin said:

PJPOWER said:

dignin said:

PJPOWER said:

pjhawks said:

PJPOWER said:

pjhawks said:

I'm just glad i had enough personal responsibility not to get killed on the way into work this morning, or in the office, or at the convenience store i went to for lunch.  i hope i still have enough personal responsibility to make it home tonight.

Where did you learn to drive and why?  How do you get out of your office if there is a fire?  How did you know which burrito to avoid at the convenience store?  Is all of the above knowledge something that makes you safer and prepared?  Maybe, just maybe, if you did your part and furthered that foundation of knowledge, you might very well be prepared if other situations ever presented themselves.  I sure as hell hope that if I am ever choking in a restaurant, at least one other person has taken a first aid class and knows what to do...Sorry if I believe every responsible person should.

you do realize that cars in general are about 1000x safer today than in the past because of you know laws and regulations that were passed.  as opposed to gun laws which because of the NRA and people like you we can't change.  so umm yea....

People like me that encouraged people to be responsible and aware?  Well that’s a new one.  It’s because of people like you and Diane Feinstein that make gun owners say “don’t give an inch”.  What tenable realistic gun control do you suggest?  Read this before answering:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/i-used-to-think-gun-control-was-the-answer-my-research-told-me-otherwise/2017/10/03/d33edca6-a851-11e7-92d1-58c702d2d975_story.html?utm_term=.eaec3734deb9

You keep talking about realistic gun control but I haven't heard you give any suggestions yourself. Do you have any? Cause as far as I can tell you are perfectly fine with the status quo. 

Realistic, tenable gun control that would have guaranteed the event in Vegas would not have happened?  I’ll admit it, I do not know of any. That is why I am suggesting alternative solutions other than gun control?  Where have you been???  And you obviously did not read the article in my post that you quoted.  I am more focused on how to decrease violence and loss of life as a whole.

Exactly. I just wanted the update. Some around here seem to think that you are looking for some common ground, you are not. Like democrats could do anything to meet you halfway.

You like the laws already on the books, no more. That is extreme.

There is no common ground on guns except that everyone wants to save lives.  The methods for doing so is what is up for debate.  Create laws requiring safe storage or requiring background checks, I’m all for those.  But it will never be “enough” for those that hate guns...never.

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

CM189191 said:

PJPOWER said:

dignin said:

So much paranoia, but I am starting to understand the fear that is behind Americas gun violence problem. Very educational.

Aware=Paranoid...thanks for the lesson professor.  Paranoid is being afraid of going to a concert because you think you will get shot.  Aware is going to a concert and having the essentials basic knowledge to help you not panic if something does happen.  In CCW class, I was taught to “live in the yellow”.  Do not be in the red where you are paranoid everywhere you go that something is going to happen.  Do not be in the green where you are unaware of any risks and think nothing could possibly ever happen to you.  

Why do we need to treat the two concepts as mutually exclusive? Why not implement real reforms that will actually address causes of violent crime while also passing laws intended solely to stick it to the gun nuts?

Why frame it that way?

Because for many gun control advocates, that is the true intent.  And it is obvious, cm didn’t even have to say it.

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

pjhawks said:

PJPOWER said:

pjhawks said:

I'm just glad i had enough personal responsibility not to get killed on the way into work this morning, or in the office, or at the convenience store i went to for lunch.  i hope i still have enough personal responsibility to make it home tonight.

Where did you learn to drive and why?  How do you get out of your office if there is a fire?  How did you know which burrito to avoid at the convenience store?  Is all of the above knowledge something that makes you safer and prepared?  Maybe, just maybe, if you did your part and furthered that foundation of knowledge, you might very well be prepared if other situations ever presented themselves.  I sure as hell hope that if I am ever choking in a restaurant, at least one other person has taken a first aid class and knows what to do...Sorry if I believe every responsible person should.

you do realize that cars in general are about 1000x safer today than in the past because of you know laws and regulations that were passed.  as opposed to gun laws which because of the NRA and people like you we can't change.  so umm yea....

Laws on driving haven't changed much (other than cell phone use I guess). Safety features on cars have.
But I'd give the credit to the advancing safety features and not any laws.

Gotta link? And there you go again......................Driving laws haven't changed much. Umm, sure. The traffic light came before the automobile, dontcha know? Driver's ed? Started with Henry Ford. Stop signs? Invented in 1776. Blinking yellow lights at those unused intersections? Brought over on the Mayflower.

My bad, I was assuming you were using rational logic in your argument. 
In recent years, there have been far more advances in safety technology that driving laws.

But if you want to go back 200 years, then yes, there have been a lot of changes in driving laws. Changes that do not impact your argument in the least bit. Lets see, the fist traffic light was 1868 (wikipedia) and the first deadly car accident didn't happen until 1869 (going on the earliest definition of a car, some sources have it much later). Even then deadly car accidents were extremely rare, since most cars had a top speed of 20 mph or less and were still very rare to begin with.
In the times you were referring to there were more horses on the road than cars, you could count the car accidents that lead to fatalities on 1 hand.
First, I'll jsut use common sense to debunk your statement. It isnt rational to compare the introduction of street light, stop signs, turn signals, etc because those all happened before the modern car era

Now I'll use facts and stats to debunk it. Car deaths increased nearly every year, despite the introduction of everything you mentioned, until about 1980. So what happened in 1980?   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year
DId they re-introduce a new stop light, or were there more advances in technology like an airbag, ABS, anti-skid and everything else that is on a current car that wasn't common 30 years ago.
So comparing safe driving from 200 years ago to today and claiming it is the laws and not the technology doesn't make any sense. It would be like coming to the conclusion that we should get ride of all traffic lights, because prior to traffic light there were no deadly accidents in the US. 
I would equate it to claiming that the lack of pirates are the blame for global warming.

PJPOWER said:

pjhawks said:

PJPOWER said:

pjhawks said:

PJPOWER said:

pjhawks said:

PJPOWER said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJPOWER said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

rgambs said:

You guys are fucking idiots if you think making light of this issue is ok when there are still bodies waiting to be buried.
It's all a big joke to you, hehe haha hoho, I shoot my bang bang hehe.

Grow up and get a fucking life.

Positive post right here.  Constructive criticism too, well done.

The man does have a point though.

no, he doesn't. it ludicrous to compare knives to automatic weapons. NO ONE IS SUGGESTING BANNING HANDGUNS/SINGLE SHOT RIFLES. if you want to compare, that is the only, still semi-illogical, argument that can be made. and no one is suggesting it. 

if there is ever a knife that can kill 58 people and injure 500 more in 10 minutes from 32 floors up and hundreds of meters away in the dark, then you have an argument. 

So the people suggesting that the US should adopt policies mirroring Australia’s and Europe’s are not suggesting banning handguns and single shot rifles...got it...

pretty sure those people are only using those examples to highlight that gun control can work. they know that the outright banning of ALL guns is simply not possible in the US. you can't, anyway, without an amendment to the constitution. 

I agree with you, it’s pointless to suggest banning ALL guns.  That being said, there are plenty around that are drooling over an amendment to the constitution and would throw their vote at anyone pushing a complete ban.  To suggest that “no one wants to ban all guns” is vastly ignoring a significant number of voters that would love that.  Just go to a Coalition to Stop Gun Violence Facebook page and read some of the comments by the gun control lovers.  They are not an anomaly, those quacks are easy to find.  Several here even.

yes but those people are just as out of touch as the gun advocates and the NRA who think that any legislation is going to lead to all guns being taken away.  most rational people don't believe all guns should be eliminated and that we can achieve more sensible laws. unfortunately the NRA is so powerful that almost any meaningful legislation for any gun control laws is almost impossible to pass at this point. 

Which is probably why the more logical approach “at this point” would to be focusing on training and education.  It’s idiotic to wait on the political “leaders” to get anything done.  Stop being a sheep and learn a few life saving techniques, situational awareness, firearm training (if you so desire) and most importantly, educate others.  Do not wait on some government program to save your life.  And, before I get bombarded once again, this does not mean you have to stop being a gun control activist, just supplement your activism with some actually real life skills.  Many of them are simple...like knowing where to park at the store...

well we've reached a new level of idiocy i  see.  yea i guess those victims in Vegas should have kept themselves safe by staying at home...but wait you gun nuts think people are coming into your homes for you and need guns to protect your families (have heard the protect my family argument many times here).  so which is it? if  you are worried you need a gun to protect your home even those victims in vegas wouldn't be safe at home  by gun advocates theories so what should they do?  let's all just bend over and take it hard and deep in the rear from the NRA just because they are so fucking stubborn they won't compromise at all for any meaningful gun legislation. and you wonder why people call gun advocates gun nuts.

Wow...to me, “bending over” is not knowing to be aware of exits when you are at a concert, not knowing certain life saving techniques if you were in a situation where someone was bleeding out (maybe even during a car accident).  There were plenty of stories of people using these techniques to save lives during the Vegas shooting, but also plenty of examples of people being ignorant (see the dude standing and flipping the bird to the gunman).  I’m not sure why some of you see learning a bit of personal responsibility as a contradiction to gun control.  I would say that, on top of any gun control, people need to go back to take a little personal responsibility in learning some basic survival techniques.  And you wonder why some gun control pushers are called lazy dumbasses that cannot think for themselves.  Any of the legislation being touted by the most extreme gun control advocates would take YEARS to actually change anything...if it did at all.  Does not hurt to know a few basics about how to survive in the mean time...

blaming the victims. what a new low you have achieved here.  bravo.  you must be so proud of yourself.

Blaming the victims???  More like learning from the situation.  Stop trying to twist shit.  I know it’s the only card in some libtard playbooks, but seriously?  Do you not think everyone knowing some basic survival skills is a good thing?  You are basically encouraging ignorance.  

For me, your use of the word 'libtard' largely invalidates anything you have to say

josevolution said:

So the answer is just be aware of all your sorroundings at all times now survival skills oh and be armed yourself but any new laws ? nah who can benefit from that no one ! so here we are back at step1 until the next massacre and round round we go ...

josevolution said:

So the answer is just be aware of all your sorroundings at all times now survival skills oh and be armed yourself but any new laws ? nah who can benefit from that no one ! so here we are back at step1 until the next massacre and round round we go ...

HughFreakingDillon said:

josevolution said:

So the answer is just be aware of all your sorroundings at all times now survival skills oh and be armed yourself but any new laws ? nah who can benefit from that no one ! so here we are back at step1 until the next massacre and round round we go ...

ONCE AGAIN: he is proposing both. Keep fighting the good fight re: gun control but also learn basic survival skills with regards to a possible active shooter scenario. I cannot fathom why anyone would have an issue with this. I think people are so entrenched in their gun hatred, they will not allow themselves to see constructive suggestions by a "gun nut". 

And um, just to be clear, before someone tries again to accuse me of being a gun nut, let me introduce myself:

Hi, I'm Hugh Freaking Dillon. My friends/enemies call me HFD. I am a libtard who hates/fears guns, is pro-choice, thinks Donald Trump is an abhorent human being, an even worse president, agrees with Colin Kaepernick, socialized healthcare, a feminist, and is a Canadian who has an opinion on American politics, much to the dismay of many right-leaning Americans. 

If you have any questions, please direct them through my secretary, Beaver, who also is my pet moose. 

brianlux said:

I think survival skills are great, right up there with all sorts of do-it-yourself skill, in importance for daily living.  These skills are being lost.  How many people, for instance, can build a fire in the rain or know how to tie a bowline knot or even know what it is used for? 

But I would suggest a separate survival thread. A good place to start is with this book.



In any case, I don't see the point of going on and on about survival skills in a thread called "America's Gun Violence".  I can see why some here see other as inferring that the problem is at least somewhat with the victims.  I don't buy that. In the wild, danger lies at ever corner, yes.  But I'm not going to settle for that in so-called civilized places like our towns, cities, gathering places and neighborhoods.  And I don't like seeing the problem-- or even hinting at putting the problem-- on the victims.  We could do better than that and should demand it.