America's Gun Violence

PJPOWER said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

I don't consider biology because humans are beyond that. We have largely beat nature in this context (in modern developed society). It is no longer fair to be placing humans on the same level as wild animals in this context IMO. It's the same reason you don't just go running up to whatever woman smells right and start reproducing with her on the street. We're not wild animals (anymore).
And wild animals are not comparable to domestic livestock either, IMO, just like they aren't comparable to pets. (I am not really trying to convince anyone btw - certainly not hunters; we are WAY too far apart in attitude to ever agree on this issue, lol).

how are humans beyond that? in order to get the nutrients we need, we either need to eat other animals or get them artificially. our nature is, as someone else said, ominivorous. just because we can grow meat out of petri dish doesn't mean we should. 

although, i just noticed what thread we're in. maybe we should get back to it. i don't consider hunting for food "america's gun violence". lol

I am talking about stalking prey in the wild. We are already doing more than enough to destroy nature, and if we don't have to go out there and shoot wild animals, then I don't think we should. If we weren't a bunch of parasites destroying Earth and the animals we share it with about as fast as possible, I probably would not be saying this. And if nobody got any pleasure out of hunting whatsoever I wouldn't saying it either, but nobody can claim that in developed countries the vast majority of hunting is about the sport far more than it is the food.
I am 100% not saying we shouldn't eat other animals at all, nor that I think steaks need to be made in a lab (although I wouldn't be against that if it was possible and tasted good - that would be insanely beneficial for environmental reasons and humane reasons - meat without the damage raising meat causes and without any death?? Count me in!! I have no idea why anyone would prefer to kill for meat if they could get it without killing. Surely that isn't what you meant).

i know what you are referring to. but hunting on your own and using it for food takes agriculture, a major source of climate change, out of the picture. I don't like sport hunting any more than you do, but if it's for food, then to me it's neither here nor there if the person shooting is "enjoying it" or not. the fact is, they are using their own means and bypassing the "system", which, as I said above, is a major problem. 

I am thinking only in terms of the welfare of the wild animals. Anyway, sorry for the huge sidetrack everyone.

Wild life is dwindling, human population is close to or maybe even over the ecological concept of carrying capacity and people still want to hunt wild animals?  Absurd.

I saw our first wild turkey of the year yesterday morning.  Those sweet, lovable dumb birds- he was in our driveway and I had to slow down so as not to spook him let alone hit him.  I've gotten wild turkeys to eat out of my hand.  I know that's not a good idea-- they should be kept wild-- and I don't do that anymore.  But I mention this because I've also seen entire books written about how to hunt turkeys.  Ridiculous!  I could sit on my porch and pick them off if I were that uncaring about wildlife.  Besides that, why the heck would anyone do that?  They don't even taste good.   You can buy a tender one at the market if you eat meat.  So why do people kill wild animals.  In the 21st century we live in that's just-- I'll say it-- wrong.  Just wrong.

Wild turkey may taste like shit, but a whitetail deer is quite delicious.  Not only that, it is “all natural” and “free roaming”, lol.  There is no threat to the population of deer or turkey around here.  In fact, the issue as of late has been the overpopulation and eating wheat fields that crest bread for those lovely little supermarkets.  Think I will have some back strap fajitas tonight since venison is on the mind.

brianlux said:

PJPOWER said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

I don't consider biology because humans are beyond that. We have largely beat nature in this context (in modern developed society). It is no longer fair to be placing humans on the same level as wild animals in this context IMO. It's the same reason you don't just go running up to whatever woman smells right and start reproducing with her on the street. We're not wild animals (anymore).
And wild animals are not comparable to domestic livestock either, IMO, just like they aren't comparable to pets. (I am not really trying to convince anyone btw - certainly not hunters; we are WAY too far apart in attitude to ever agree on this issue, lol).

how are humans beyond that? in order to get the nutrients we need, we either need to eat other animals or get them artificially. our nature is, as someone else said, ominivorous. just because we can grow meat out of petri dish doesn't mean we should. 

although, i just noticed what thread we're in. maybe we should get back to it. i don't consider hunting for food "america's gun violence". lol

I am talking about stalking prey in the wild. We are already doing more than enough to destroy nature, and if we don't have to go out there and shoot wild animals, then I don't think we should. If we weren't a bunch of parasites destroying Earth and the animals we share it with about as fast as possible, I probably would not be saying this. And if nobody got any pleasure out of hunting whatsoever I wouldn't saying it either, but nobody can claim that in developed countries the vast majority of hunting is about the sport far more than it is the food.
I am 100% not saying we shouldn't eat other animals at all, nor that I think steaks need to be made in a lab (although I wouldn't be against that if it was possible and tasted good - that would be insanely beneficial for environmental reasons and humane reasons - meat without the damage raising meat causes and without any death?? Count me in!! I have no idea why anyone would prefer to kill for meat if they could get it without killing. Surely that isn't what you meant).

i know what you are referring to. but hunting on your own and using it for food takes agriculture, a major source of climate change, out of the picture. I don't like sport hunting any more than you do, but if it's for food, then to me it's neither here nor there if the person shooting is "enjoying it" or not. the fact is, they are using their own means and bypassing the "system", which, as I said above, is a major problem. 

I am thinking only in terms of the welfare of the wild animals. Anyway, sorry for the huge sidetrack everyone.

Wild life is dwindling, human population is close to or maybe even over the ecological concept of carrying capacity and people still want to hunt wild animals?  Absurd.

I saw our first wild turkey of the year yesterday morning.  Those sweet, lovable dumb birds- he was in our driveway and I had to slow down so as not to spook him let alone hit him.  I've gotten wild turkeys to eat out of my hand.  I know that's not a good idea-- they should be kept wild-- and I don't do that anymore.  But I mention this because I've also seen entire books written about how to hunt turkeys.  Ridiculous!  I could sit on my porch and pick them off if I were that uncaring about wildlife.  Besides that, why the heck would anyone do that?  They don't even taste good.   You can buy a tender one at the market if you eat meat.  So why do people kill wild animals.  In the 21st century we live in that's just-- I'll say it-- wrong.  Just wrong.

Wild turkey may taste like shit, but a whitetail deer is quite delicious.  Not only that, it is “all natural” and “free roaming”, lol.  There is no threat to the population of deer or turkey around here.  In fact, the issue as of late has been the overpopulation and eating wheat fields that crest bread for those lovely little supermarkets.  Think I will have some back strap fajitas tonight since venison is on the mind.

You called me a troll and "some eccentric on AMT" (weak laughter) and said it would be best to ignore me.  That was short lived. But OK, I'll respond. 

Yes, the populations of deer are out of balance in many places,  I'm well aware of that.  Shooting more animals is an anthropocentric solution to a biological problem.  If natural predators were allowed more natural habitat, these issues would not be occurring. But you already indicated that doesn't work for you.

Are we done?

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

I don't consider biology because humans are beyond that. We have largely beat nature in this context (in modern developed society). It is no longer fair to be placing humans on the same level as wild animals in this context IMO. It's the same reason you don't just go running up to whatever woman smells right and start reproducing with her on the street. We're not wild animals (anymore).
And wild animals are not comparable to domestic livestock either, IMO, just like they aren't comparable to pets. (I am not really trying to convince anyone btw - certainly not hunters; we are WAY too far apart in attitude to ever agree on this issue, lol).

how are humans beyond that? in order to get the nutrients we need, we either need to eat other animals or get them artificially. our nature is, as someone else said, ominivorous. just because we can grow meat out of petri dish doesn't mean we should. 

although, i just noticed what thread we're in. maybe we should get back to it. i don't consider hunting for food "america's gun violence". lol

I am talking about stalking prey in the wild. We are already doing more than enough to destroy nature, and if we don't have to go out there and shoot wild animals, then I don't think we should. If we weren't a bunch of parasites destroying Earth and the animals we share it with about as fast as possible, I probably would not be saying this. And if nobody got any pleasure out of hunting whatsoever I wouldn't saying it either, but nobody can claim that in developed countries the vast majority of hunting is about the sport far more than it is the food.
I am 100% not saying we shouldn't eat other animals at all, nor that I think steaks need to be made in a lab (although I wouldn't be against that if it was possible and tasted good - that would be insanely beneficial for environmental reasons and humane reasons - meat without the damage raising meat causes and without any death?? Count me in!! I have no idea why anyone would prefer to kill for meat if they could get it without killing. Surely that isn't what you meant).

i know what you are referring to. but hunting on your own and using it for food takes agriculture, a major source of climate change, out of the picture. I don't like sport hunting any more than you do, but if it's for food, then to me it's neither here nor there if the person shooting is "enjoying it" or not. the fact is, they are using their own means and bypassing the "system", which, as I said above, is a major problem. 

I am thinking only in terms of the welfare of the wild animals. Anyway, sorry for the huge sidetrack everyone.

Wild life is dwindling, human population is close to or maybe even over the ecological concept of carrying capacity and people still want to hunt wild animals?  Absurd.

I saw our first wild turkey of the year yesterday morning.  Those sweet, lovable dumb birds- he was in our driveway and I had to slow down so as not to spook him let alone hit him.  I've gotten wild turkeys to eat out of my hand.  I know that's not a good idea-- they should be kept wild-- and I don't do that anymore.  But I mention this because I've also seen entire books written about how to hunt turkeys.  Ridiculous!  I could sit on my porch and pick them off if I were that uncaring about wildlife.  Besides that, why the heck would anyone do that?  They don't even taste good.   You can buy a tender one at the market if you eat meat.  So why do people kill wild animals.  In the 21st century we live in that's just-- I'll say it-- wrong.  Just wrong.

Finally someone agrees with me on this. I guess it must be about how we feel about wild animals as free, sentient beings Brian, compared to the others?

I love wild animals. I would never harm a hair on their bodies. I once killed a bee that wasn't bothering me, and I felt bad afterwards. that was about 20 years ago, and I still remember it. You can love and respect the animal kingdom and still hold the following belief:

There is a natural order to things. Humans being part of the food chain is part of that. What we do now is not natural. Breeding animals for slaughter, pumping them full of chemicals to fatten them up, is not good. It would make more sense if we still hunted, as opposed to ruining the earth with cattle raising. 

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

I don't consider biology because humans are beyond that. We have largely beat nature in this context (in modern developed society). It is no longer fair to be placing humans on the same level as wild animals in this context IMO. It's the same reason you don't just go running up to whatever woman smells right and start reproducing with her on the street. We're not wild animals (anymore).
And wild animals are not comparable to domestic livestock either, IMO, just like they aren't comparable to pets. (I am not really trying to convince anyone btw - certainly not hunters; we are WAY too far apart in attitude to ever agree on this issue, lol).

how are humans beyond that? in order to get the nutrients we need, we either need to eat other animals or get them artificially. our nature is, as someone else said, ominivorous. just because we can grow meat out of petri dish doesn't mean we should. 

although, i just noticed what thread we're in. maybe we should get back to it. i don't consider hunting for food "america's gun violence". lol

I am talking about stalking prey in the wild. We are already doing more than enough to destroy nature, and if we don't have to go out there and shoot wild animals, then I don't think we should. If we weren't a bunch of parasites destroying Earth and the animals we share it with about as fast as possible, I probably would not be saying this. And if nobody got any pleasure out of hunting whatsoever I wouldn't saying it either, but nobody can claim that in developed countries the vast majority of hunting is about the sport far more than it is the food.
I am 100% not saying we shouldn't eat other animals at all, nor that I think steaks need to be made in a lab (although I wouldn't be against that if it was possible and tasted good - that would be insanely beneficial for environmental reasons and humane reasons - meat without the damage raising meat causes and without any death?? Count me in!! I have no idea why anyone would prefer to kill for meat if they could get it without killing. Surely that isn't what you meant).

i know what you are referring to. but hunting on your own and using it for food takes agriculture, a major source of climate change, out of the picture. I don't like sport hunting any more than you do, but if it's for food, then to me it's neither here nor there if the person shooting is "enjoying it" or not. the fact is, they are using their own means and bypassing the "system", which, as I said above, is a major problem. 

I am thinking only in terms of the welfare of the wild animals. Anyway, sorry for the huge sidetrack everyone.

Wild life is dwindling, human population is close to or maybe even over the ecological concept of carrying capacity and people still want to hunt wild animals?  Absurd.

I saw our first wild turkey of the year yesterday morning.  Those sweet, lovable dumb birds- he was in our driveway and I had to slow down so as not to spook him let alone hit him.  I've gotten wild turkeys to eat out of my hand.  I know that's not a good idea-- they should be kept wild-- and I don't do that anymore.  But I mention this because I've also seen entire books written about how to hunt turkeys.  Ridiculous!  I could sit on my porch and pick them off if I were that uncaring about wildlife.  Besides that, why the heck would anyone do that?  They don't even taste good.   You can buy a tender one at the market if you eat meat.  So why do people kill wild animals.  In the 21st century we live in that's just-- I'll say it-- wrong.  Just wrong.

Finally someone agrees with me on this. I guess it must be about how we feel about wild animals as free, sentient beings Brian, compared to the others?

I love wild animals. I would never harm a hair on their bodies. I once killed a bee that wasn't bothering me, and I felt bad afterwards. that was about 20 years ago, and I still remember it. You can love and respect the animal kingdom and still hold the following belief:

There is a natural order to things. Humans being part of the food chain is part of that. What we do now is not natural. Breeding animals for slaughter, pumping them full of chemicals to fatten them up, is not good. It would make more sense if we still hunted, as opposed to ruining the earth with cattle raising. 

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

I don't consider biology because humans are beyond that. We have largely beat nature in this context (in modern developed society). It is no longer fair to be placing humans on the same level as wild animals in this context IMO. It's the same reason you don't just go running up to whatever woman smells right and start reproducing with her on the street. We're not wild animals (anymore).
And wild animals are not comparable to domestic livestock either, IMO, just like they aren't comparable to pets. (I am not really trying to convince anyone btw - certainly not hunters; we are WAY too far apart in attitude to ever agree on this issue, lol).

how are humans beyond that? in order to get the nutrients we need, we either need to eat other animals or get them artificially. our nature is, as someone else said, ominivorous. just because we can grow meat out of petri dish doesn't mean we should. 

although, i just noticed what thread we're in. maybe we should get back to it. i don't consider hunting for food "america's gun violence". lol

I am talking about stalking prey in the wild. We are already doing more than enough to destroy nature, and if we don't have to go out there and shoot wild animals, then I don't think we should. If we weren't a bunch of parasites destroying Earth and the animals we share it with about as fast as possible, I probably would not be saying this. And if nobody got any pleasure out of hunting whatsoever I wouldn't saying it either, but nobody can claim that in developed countries the vast majority of hunting is about the sport far more than it is the food.
I am 100% not saying we shouldn't eat other animals at all, nor that I think steaks need to be made in a lab (although I wouldn't be against that if it was possible and tasted good - that would be insanely beneficial for environmental reasons and humane reasons - meat without the damage raising meat causes and without any death?? Count me in!! I have no idea why anyone would prefer to kill for meat if they could get it without killing. Surely that isn't what you meant).

i know what you are referring to. but hunting on your own and using it for food takes agriculture, a major source of climate change, out of the picture. I don't like sport hunting any more than you do, but if it's for food, then to me it's neither here nor there if the person shooting is "enjoying it" or not. the fact is, they are using their own means and bypassing the "system", which, as I said above, is a major problem. 

I am thinking only in terms of the welfare of the wild animals. Anyway, sorry for the huge sidetrack everyone.

Wild life is dwindling, human population is close to or maybe even over the ecological concept of carrying capacity and people still want to hunt wild animals?  Absurd.

I saw our first wild turkey of the year yesterday morning.  Those sweet, lovable dumb birds- he was in our driveway and I had to slow down so as not to spook him let alone hit him.  I've gotten wild turkeys to eat out of my hand.  I know that's not a good idea-- they should be kept wild-- and I don't do that anymore.  But I mention this because I've also seen entire books written about how to hunt turkeys.  Ridiculous!  I could sit on my porch and pick them off if I were that uncaring about wildlife.  Besides that, why the heck would anyone do that?  They don't even taste good.   You can buy a tender one at the market if you eat meat.  So why do people kill wild animals.  In the 21st century we live in that's just-- I'll say it-- wrong.  Just wrong.

Finally someone agrees with me on this. I guess it must be about how we feel about wild animals as free, sentient beings Brian, compared to the others?

I love wild animals. I would never harm a hair on their bodies. I once killed a bee that wasn't bothering me, and I felt bad afterwards. that was about 20 years ago, and I still remember it. You can love and respect the animal kingdom and still hold the following belief:

There is a natural order to things. Humans being part of the food chain is part of that. What we do now is not natural. Breeding animals for slaughter, pumping them full of chemicals to fatten them up, is not good. It would make more sense if we still hunted, as opposed to ruining the earth with cattle raising. 

I don't think there is anything wrong with raising cattle for food assuming it's done humanely (it often isn't, and I have huge issues with that too), but I agree that filling them up with chemicals is bad. But seriously, don't you think we're all way far gone from being "natural" anyway?? I mean, what in the hell is natural about using a telescopic sight on a fancy rifle and shooting animals from a quarter of a mile away?? Nothing. If you were talking about stalking the animals with a spear or something I might see your point. Humans have already stepped out of any natural place in the food chain, and putting on a fluorescent vest and some camo gear and tromping through the woods with a hunting rifle is no more natural than raising a cow on a farm.

chadwick said:

there's a video out that a passerby recorded of the hotel, it shows gunfire (w/ audio) coming out of the 4th floor. a dispatcher says into her mic "there's possibly another shooter on the 4th floor" 

PJ_Soul said:

rgambs said:

Flashing lights aren't exactly a rarity on the Vegas strip.

Yeah, the hotel is one big mirror, and only one window was broken. This little facebook theory seems impossible.