America's Gun Violence

mcgruff10 · October 2017

dignin said:

PJPOWER said:

chadwick said:

dignin said:

America giving itself a giant pat on the back today. Trying to find the positive in the massacre and sweeping the truth under the rug.

The truth is America needs to start banning these military styled weapons and pulling them off the streets and out of peoples homes. Otherwise these massacres will not stop.

You want a hunting rifle, great. Take proper training courses, have background checks and register that rifle. That's all any sane person needs. No civilian needs a handgun or shotgun, let alone an AR-15.

why no shotgun? i grew up hunting with my dad & his dad. my first shotgun was a kid's model single shot.

Seriously, you do not hunt birds with a rifle. That line of thought gives the NRA grounds to say “see, they do want to take away all of your firearms. Give an inch and they will take a mile”. “No shotguns”... my eyes almost rolled out the back of my head.

Keep those eyes rolling. If you can't hunt with a single rifle maybe its time to take up a new hobby. I have a few friends and family members who are avid hunters who seem to do just fine with one rifle and a compound bow. But it's about the hunt and the food for them, not getting their jollies off with a big gun.

Also don't hide behind the NRA, your statements on here over time make where you stand clear.

As long as you can have your toys these massacres will continue to happen and you will never be able to wipe the blood from your hands.

There is zero way to bird hunt with a rifle so please just stop; that is just an asinine thought. There would be so many safety issues if this was the case.

dignin · October 2017

mcgruff10 said:

dignin said:

PJPOWER said:

chadwick said:

dignin said:

America giving itself a giant pat on the back today. Trying to find the positive in the massacre and sweeping the truth under the rug.

The truth is America needs to start banning these military styled weapons and pulling them off the streets and out of peoples homes. Otherwise these massacres will not stop.

You want a hunting rifle, great. Take proper training courses, have background checks and register that rifle. That's all any sane person needs. No civilian needs a handgun or shotgun, let alone an AR-15.

why no shotgun? i grew up hunting with my dad & his dad. my first shotgun was a kid's model single shot.

Seriously, you do not hunt birds with a rifle. That line of thought gives the NRA grounds to say “see, they do want to take away all of your firearms. Give an inch and they will take a mile”. “No shotguns”... my eyes almost rolled out the back of my head.

Keep those eyes rolling. If you can't hunt with a single rifle maybe its time to take up a new hobby. I have a few friends and family members who are avid hunters who seem to do just fine with one rifle and a compound bow. But it's about the hunt and the food for them, not getting their jollies off with a big gun.

Also don't hide behind the NRA, your statements on here over time make where you stand clear.

As long as you can have your toys these massacres will continue to happen and you will never be able to wipe the blood from your hands.

There is zero way to bird hunt with a rifle so please just stop. That is just an asinine thought.

Oh really?

How were (flying) birds hunted before shotguns?

Typically, people would wait for them to land.

Cheeky, perhaps, but that's how it was done. Modern shotgun hunting is a fairly lazy sport, done more for fun than for food. People march through a forest making all sorts of noise and startling birds into flight so the hunters can shoot them on reflex.

When it was an important part of your diet, what you would do is be very careful not to make any noise, try to cover up your scent, look for their shapes in the brush, and kill them with whichever missile you prefer.

Edit: Oh! I forgot to mention Egyptian fowling! Egyptian noblemen would have their servants cast nets at the fowl they hunted, and while the fowl were struggling to take off the hunters would kill them with spears and throwing clubs.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3t39gp/how_were_flying_birds_hunted_before_shotguns/?st=j8bw08nt&sh=8eb93591

PJ_Soul · October 2017

Ugh, okay, one rifle and one shotgun then, if you like to shoot birds out of the sky as they are minding their own business. So that's two guns. Not 10 or 20. I think the point was still clear.

mcgruff10 · October 2017

dignin said:

mcgruff10 said:

dignin said:

PJPOWER said:

chadwick said:

dignin said:

America giving itself a giant pat on the back today. Trying to find the positive in the massacre and sweeping the truth under the rug.

The truth is America needs to start banning these military styled weapons and pulling them off the streets and out of peoples homes. Otherwise these massacres will not stop.

You want a hunting rifle, great. Take proper training courses, have background checks and register that rifle. That's all any sane person needs. No civilian needs a handgun or shotgun, let alone an AR-15.

why no shotgun? i grew up hunting with my dad & his dad. my first shotgun was a kid's model single shot.

Seriously, you do not hunt birds with a rifle. That line of thought gives the NRA grounds to say “see, they do want to take away all of your firearms. Give an inch and they will take a mile”. “No shotguns”... my eyes almost rolled out the back of my head.

Keep those eyes rolling. If you can't hunt with a single rifle maybe its time to take up a new hobby. I have a few friends and family members who are avid hunters who seem to do just fine with one rifle and a compound bow. But it's about the hunt and the food for them, not getting their jollies off with a big gun.

Also don't hide behind the NRA, your statements on here over time make where you stand clear.

As long as you can have your toys these massacres will continue to happen and you will never be able to wipe the blood from your hands.

There is zero way to bird hunt with a rifle so please just stop. That is just an asinine thought.

Oh really?

How were (flying) birds hunted before shotguns?
Typically, people would wait for them to land.
Cheeky, perhaps, but that's how it was done. Modern shotgun hunting is a fairly lazy sport, done more for fun than for food. People march through a forest making all sorts of noise and startling birds into flight so the hunters can shoot them on reflex.
When it was an important part of your diet, what you would do is be very careful not to make any noise, try to cover up your scent, look for their shapes in the brush, and kill them with whichever missile you prefer.
Edit: Oh! I forgot to mention Egyptian fowling! Egyptian noblemen would have their servants cast nets at the fowl they hunted, and while the fowl were struggling to take off the hunters would kill them with spears and throwing clubs.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3t39gp/how_were_flying_birds_hunted_before_shotguns/?st=j8bw08nt&sh=8eb93591

soooooo..where's the part about hunting birds with a rifle?

HughFreakingDillon · October 2017

mcgruff10 said:

dignin said:

PJPOWER said:

chadwick said:

dignin said:

America giving itself a giant pat on the back today. Trying to find the positive in the massacre and sweeping the truth under the rug.

The truth is America needs to start banning these military styled weapons and pulling them off the streets and out of peoples homes. Otherwise these massacres will not stop.

You want a hunting rifle, great. Take proper training courses, have background checks and register that rifle. That's all any sane person needs. No civilian needs a handgun or shotgun, let alone an AR-15.

why no shotgun? i grew up hunting with my dad & his dad. my first shotgun was a kid's model single shot.

Seriously, you do not hunt birds with a rifle. That line of thought gives the NRA grounds to say “see, they do want to take away all of your firearms. Give an inch and they will take a mile”. “No shotguns”... my eyes almost rolled out the back of my head.

Keep those eyes rolling. If you can't hunt with a single rifle maybe its time to take up a new hobby. I have a few friends and family members who are avid hunters who seem to do just fine with one rifle and a compound bow. But it's about the hunt and the food for them, not getting their jollies off with a big gun.

Also don't hide behind the NRA, your statements on here over time make where you stand clear.

As long as you can have your toys these massacres will continue to happen and you will never be able to wipe the blood from your hands.

There is zero way to bird hunt with a rifle so please just stop; that is just an asinine thought. There would be so many safety issues if this was the case.

Duck Hunt on Nintendo taught me differently. that fucking dog was always laughing at me.

RoleModelsinBlood31 · October 2017

HughFreakingDillon said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

Since 1994 personal gun ownership in the states has gone up 59% but homicides by guns has dropped by 49%... there's absolutely no correlation between the amount of guns and homicides by gun.

also, the weapons he used yesterday were NOT automatic rifles, they were modified to be. The difference is that since 1932 when automatic rifles had been outlawed, there has only been 3 crimes involving automatics on US soil. 3.... not including yesterday obviously since they weren't automatics.

I personally think that there's no reason a civilian should be able to purchase an assault rifle and they therefore should be outlawed.

gun ownership is by far the highest in america as compared to other developed nations. (88 guns per 100 people, second place is 54 guns per 100, and it's Yemen. YEMEN)
americans are 25 times more likely to be murdered by a gun than any other developed nation.

conclusion: this statement "there's absolutely no correlation between the amount of guns and homicides by gun" is FALSE.

Ok I completely agree that where there's more guns there's going to be more gun deaths, especially when compared to countries without as many guns...that's not really what I meant though.

if gun homicides dropped by half but gun purchases doubled, having more guns does not equate to more gun murders as far as percentages go. There's a threshold obviously where after a certain point it doesn't matter how many guns there are, homicides by them don't go up, they go down... substantially. Just pointing out the numbers to those who say otherwise.

again, my take is that it's not how many guns are around, it's the type of guns that are around. Assault style weapons are hard to prove necessary in my mind- get rid of them and the crazies are left to use hand guns or make bombs. Which you can kill still kill lots of people with, but it's certainly not as easy.

HughFreakingDillon · October 2017

I read a tweet from someone recently, and others have expressed this same sentiment here:

"the gun control debate is over, and has been since Sandy Hook. when America revealed that they thought it was acceptable when children were murdered at their school, the debate was dead". or something to that effect.

dignin · October 2017

mcgruff10 said:

dignin said:

mcgruff10 said:

dignin said:

PJPOWER said:

chadwick said:

dignin said:

America giving itself a giant pat on the back today. Trying to find the positive in the massacre and sweeping the truth under the rug.

The truth is America needs to start banning these military styled weapons and pulling them off the streets and out of peoples homes. Otherwise these massacres will not stop.

You want a hunting rifle, great. Take proper training courses, have background checks and register that rifle. That's all any sane person needs. No civilian needs a handgun or shotgun, let alone an AR-15.

why no shotgun? i grew up hunting with my dad & his dad. my first shotgun was a kid's model single shot.

Seriously, you do not hunt birds with a rifle. That line of thought gives the NRA grounds to say “see, they do want to take away all of your firearms. Give an inch and they will take a mile”. “No shotguns”... my eyes almost rolled out the back of my head.

Keep those eyes rolling. If you can't hunt with a single rifle maybe its time to take up a new hobby. I have a few friends and family members who are avid hunters who seem to do just fine with one rifle and a compound bow. But it's about the hunt and the food for them, not getting their jollies off with a big gun.

Also don't hide behind the NRA, your statements on here over time make where you stand clear.

As long as you can have your toys these massacres will continue to happen and you will never be able to wipe the blood from your hands.

There is zero way to bird hunt with a rifle so please just stop. That is just an asinine thought.

Oh really?

How were (flying) birds hunted before shotguns?
Typically, people would wait for them to land.
Cheeky, perhaps, but that's how it was done. Modern shotgun hunting is a fairly lazy sport, done more for fun than for food. People march through a forest making all sorts of noise and startling birds into flight so the hunters can shoot them on reflex.
When it was an important part of your diet, what you would do is be very careful not to make any noise, try to cover up your scent, look for their shapes in the brush, and kill them with whichever missile you prefer.
Edit: Oh! I forgot to mention Egyptian fowling! Egyptian noblemen would have their servants cast nets at the fowl they hunted, and while the fowl were struggling to take off the hunters would kill them with spears and throwing clubs.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3t39gp/how_were_flying_birds_hunted_before_shotguns/?st=j8bw08nt&sh=8eb93591

soooooo..where's the part about hunting birds with a rifle?

Are you really that slow or are you just yanking my chain?

I've never been on a bird hunt but my brother in-law used to go every year up to Nipewin Saskatchewan to kill snow geese. They would kill hundreds and never eat a bird....because they taste like shit.

Just for the sport of it.

I grew up with a little .22 rifle. Shot all kinds of critters with it. Mostly gophers but the odd bird. Feel pretty guilty about it now, but I was just a kid.

PJPOWER · October 2017

brianlux said:

PJPOWER said:

brianlux said:

PJPOWER said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

ledvedderman said:

I'm no hunter. I hate guns. I hate that my 9 year old son has guns and hunts with his step dad. Having said that, where I am in southern IL, deer hunting is quite important for over populating concerns. Do people use that as justification to hunt when they know nothing of what curbing the population really entails? Yes. But it's still important. So it serves a purpose in theory. So, while you don't agree with it Soul (like me), it's not as simple as just not liking how animals are killed.

I am aware of the culling theory... and I strongly disagree with it, just because that argument boils down to humans thinking they matter more than the wild animals in the area do. I don't give a shit if humans are inconvenienced because they have encroached upon the animals' habitat. I don't care if the deer snarl traffic (build more crossings for them) or eat everyone's vegetable gardens because they didn't fence it well enough. Yes, I am an avid wild animal welfare advocate, and I'm aware that my views might seem extreme to some, but that's fine with me. Besides, nature tends to take care of these things, if only people would give it the opportunity to. And even with dangerous wild animals in populated areas, I strongly disagree with killing them. I think every single effort should be made to relocate them, and if I have to pay more taxes for that to happen, I'm happy to do so. If the authorities could shoot a bear or cougar dead, then they could have shot it with a tranquilizer dart. No excuses work for me unless we're talking about a mauling/attack situation, literally (obviously all bets are off during animal attacks, and FWIW, I think if someone lives in an area where a bear or cougar (or whatever) attack is a valid concern, carrying a gun for protection is perfectly fine).
But really, that isn't all that relevant to me at the end of the day, because these hunters who use culling as a justification to go sport hunting are still going out to kill for pleasure. Culling is just a convenient excuse to talk away the fact that they are murdering wild animals for fun. I think people who do that have a bit of a screw loose (and some a really big, really lose screw, like those fuckers who go to Africa and kill endangered species like the fucking Trump sons do - that is purely psychopathic IMO). Sorry hunters, but that's just how I feel.

yeah, I've never understood the whole "controlling the (insert animal here) population" argument. nature, as you said, takes care of it on its own. always has. long before humans were here. humans need to stop fucking with nature as if we're the caretakers of the earth. we're not.

I think this is just another in a long list of weak arguments for gun ownership.

The problem is that humans have already changed the ecosystem by introducing invasive species/poor farming practices, cities, etc. In many of the southern states, wild hogs (an invasive species that man introduced to the country) have cause millions upon millions of dollars of damage to agriculture and have destroyed the habitat for other animals as well. Same with pythons in Florida. If deer overpopulate, there is something called Chronic Wasting Disease that will wipe out entire populations of them. Some invasive species will even overpopulate and bring diseases like the plague or rabies into domestic areas. There are plenty arguments for wildlife population control that I have not mentioned here. Myself, I am a hunter. I usually harvest two deer a year and it feeds my family almost all year long. I hunt wild hogs because they destroy my family’s farmland that is used to produce wheat, livestock feed. If you are simply against farming and ranching, then do not even bother commenting because I will not respect you from the start...sorry.
As far as the “three guns is all you need” comments...You obviously know nothing about hunting. Different calibers are used for different animals. Who are you to decide what someone else needs to protect their home/land or feed their family? Animal rights activists are often the ones responsible for fucking the environment by releasing wolves into areas that they do not belong, invasive species of fish into lakes, etc. I would say that hunters have actually contributed to the environment way more than your average PETA supporter, if by nothing else purchasing hunting licenses which funds go towards habitat restoration efforts. Get off your high horse...

Wrong. Don't talk about things of which you have little or no knowledge.

Oh I have plenty of knowledge in this area and that portion of my comment is most definitely correct. They are the same ones that try to load deer into their cars in Yellowstone to “save them”. I have several aquantances in the forest service that have stayed what I just did.

Forest service. Ahhh, right...

You’re right, I should believe some eccentric on the AMT forums. Much more credible sources here...

PJ_Soul · October 2017

Lol, acquaintances who work for the forest service telling anecdotal stories is not a credible source either dude.

pjhawks · October 2017

Kat said:

Country Stars React to Las Vegas Shooting: ‘I Cannot Express How Wrong I Was’
By NIRAJ CHOKSHI and JOE COSCARELLI OCT. 2, 2017

Caleb Keeter of the Josh Abbott Band, which was part of the weekend lineup in Las Vegas, said he had changed his mind on the need for gun control after the shooting. Credit Amy Harris/Invision, via Associated Press
Read the latest on the Las Vegas shooting with Tuesday’s live updates.

Country music artists and other performers expressed words of sympathy as well as frustration over gun violence on Monday as they mourned the mass shooting at a Las Vegas concert. One guitarist who played there said that the killings had changed his views on gun laws.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/us/jason-aldean-vegas-shooting.html

I posted a story about this earlier. So he was fine with guns until it affected him? well how about all those what were affected before Vegas? I mean even children getting killed didn't change his mind until all the sudden guns were aimed near him? glad he changed his so wrong attitude but that came a bit too late for some.

PJPOWER · October 2017

PJ_Soul said:

Ugh, okay, one rifle and one shotgun then, if you like to shoot birds out of the sky as they are minding their own business. So that's two guns. Not 10 or 20. I think the point was still clear.

I thought we were talking about realistic avenues for change. Any similar legislation to what the two of you are proposing would get laughed out of existence by both, democrats and republicans...

josevolution · October 2017

Its harder to adopt a dog in this country then to purchase a gun !

PJ_Soul · October 2017

PJPOWER said:

PJ_Soul said:

Ugh, okay, one rifle and one shotgun then, if you like to shoot birds out of the sky as they are minding their own business. So that's two guns. Not 10 or 20. I think the point was still clear.

I thought we were talking about realistic avenues for change. Any similar legislation to what the two of you are proposing would get laughed out of existence by both, democrats and republicans...

What do you think I'm proposing??

KC138045 · October 2017

josevolution said:

Its harder to adopt a dog in this country then to purchase a gun !

Oh come on! This is a ridiculous statement.

PJ_Soul · October 2017

KC138045 said:

josevolution said:

Its harder to adopt a dog in this country then to purchase a gun !

Oh come on! This is a ridiculous statement.

No it isn't. In many states it is indeed easier to buy a gun than adopt a dog from the SPCA.

PJPOWER · October 2017

PJ_Soul said:

PJPOWER said:

PJ_Soul said:

Ugh, okay, one rifle and one shotgun then, if you like to shoot birds out of the sky as they are minding their own business. So that's two guns. Not 10 or 20. I think the point was still clear.

I thought we were talking about realistic avenues for change. Any similar legislation to what the two of you are proposing would get laughed out of existence by both, democrats and republicans...

What do you think I'm proposing??

Um...exactly what you mentioned... “two guns”

HughFreakingDillon · October 2017

I personally don't think it matters how many guns a person owns. I think it matters the type they are allowed to own.

PJ_Soul · October 2017

I think the culture that leads to people wanting to own 20 guns is what we need to be concerned about, and the fact that each person who does it is perpetuating that culture and passing it along.

PJ_Soul · October 2017

PJPOWER said:

PJ_Soul said:

PJPOWER said:

PJ_Soul said:

Ugh, okay, one rifle and one shotgun then, if you like to shoot birds out of the sky as they are minding their own business. So that's two guns. Not 10 or 20. I think the point was still clear.

I thought we were talking about realistic avenues for change. Any similar legislation to what the two of you are proposing would get laughed out of existence by both, democrats and republicans...

What do you think I'm proposing??

Um...exactly what you mentioned... “two guns”

I wasn't proposing a damn thing. I was simply saying that what he meant in his post was clear.

America's Gun Violence

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