America's Gun Violence

PJPOWER said:

PJ_Soul said:

I agree it's totally stupid to say that guns bought for protection should be locked up. If they're locked up with the ammo kept separate then they aren't really for home defense anymore, so what's the point? Gun advocates know that. They just spew that shit as a defense mechanism.

I advocate locking the gun and ammo/magazine in a quick access biometric or coded pistol safe.  Those can be accessed in less than 5 seconds if needed.  
Most gun owners I know do this, if for nothing else, to keep them from being stolen.
You are not going to get rid of guns, so educating more on the appropriate storage/usage and possible consequences for being irresponsible is imperative.   

PJ_Soul said:

PJPOWER said:

PJ_Soul said:

PJPOWER said:

PJ_Soul said:

I agree it's totally stupid to say that guns bought for protection should be locked up. If they're locked up with the ammo kept separate then they aren't really for home defense anymore, so what's the point? Gun advocates know that. They just spew that shit as a defense mechanism.

I advocate locking the gun and ammo/magazine in a quick access biometric or coded pistol safe.  Those can be accessed in less than 5 seconds if needed.  
Most gun owners I know do this, if for nothing else, to keep them from being stolen.

Are you the one who pretended that tons and tons of gun owners have these things? Or was that someone else?
But anyway, even if stored in one of these... so where you do you keep it? Say it's in your den. And you're in bed when someone breaks in. That's going to take a lot more than 5 seconds even if the criminal isn't between you and the safe. Or say you keep it right next to your bed? So the criminal breaks in at night, you wake up, take a bit to come to and realize what's going on, you have to get out of bed, open the safe.... great. Hopefully the criminal didn't start in the bedroom and wake you up by coming in there, because then you're dead before you can even reach your safe. Or say you keep in next to your bed and you would have gotten to it on time because the criminal is still somewhere else in the house. Perfect! But only if you're in bed. If they bust in while you're anywhere but your bedroom, suddenly your chances of reaching that gun in time go back to slim. I personally think that the only sure way to always be protected by your gun is to have it on your person (or under your pillow) at all times (not that I'm recommending that... It's easy for people in a society that isn't obsessed with guns to feel secure without a gun. Of course, they aren't generally terrified of home invasions either, so it's a moot point).

Are you pretending that there are not a ton of examples of people protecting their homes from home invaders by using their firearms?  Every house is different, so part of being responsible is deciding where to store your firearm.  In all of your examples, you seem to forget that most people have these little things called legs.  They help you run to wherever you have your quick access safe (if someone is trying to break down your door and you are in a different room than your firearm).  Someone breaking into your house is most likely going to be noisy and the invader will most likely not know the layout of your home as well as you.  There could be a million different scenarios, but most law enforcement experts that I have spoken with do advocate being armed or having a secure yet quickly accessible firearm in the home.  I trust their judgement as they have first hand experience at these types of scenes.
Here is a great little safe for $135 if you would like to read up and educate yourself:Gunvault GV2000S  Multi Vault Standard Gun Safe https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001XZZA6A/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_LHTUzbM3E641N

Yeah, my scenarios involved legs. And no, I'm not pretending anything. Of course my first point is that most people don't have a bio-metric safe.

mcgruff10 said:

I ve hunted my whole life. I go to the range when I can. I know a hell of a lot of people who own firearms and literally every one of them has a safe. What type of firearm owners to you non gunners hang out with?  Could these irresponsible gun owners be the reason why you dislike guns so much?

PJ_Soul said:

I feel like you guys are talking about a select bunch of people who are like you, not American gun owners in general. Just going off of what your own circles do doesn't tell the whole story. But yeah, of course I'm going off of various sources, not people I know. I've simply gleaned info from many different resources over many years. As for living where ownership is very restricted... not particularly. People just don't want them because they aren't scared or obsessed.
From my readings, statistics suggest that most gun safes are bought by those with several guns and who are basically gun hobbyists, like you two seem to be and the people you're talking about. But they aren't often purchased by those who just have a handgun in the house for protection.

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

I agree it's totally stupid to say that guns bought for protection should be locked up. If they're locked up with the ammo kept separate then they aren't really for home defense anymore, so what's the point? Gun advocates know that. They just spew that shit as a defense mechanism.

I believe this came up again recently in response to a kid getting a hold of a gun and accidentally shooting it. I 100% believe guns should be locked up with kids in the house. Most gun owners I personally know who have guns for protections have a small hand gun safe under the bed or near by, which would prevent access from a kid but allow access for self defense.
Personally I dont both, I lock all mine up in the safe. But I'm not worried about people breaking in my house in the middle of the night either. I have no problem admitting my gun collection is for sport

mcgruff10 said:

PJPOWER said:

PJ_Soul said:

I agree it's totally stupid to say that guns bought for protection should be locked up. If they're locked up with the ammo kept separate then they aren't really for home defense anymore, so what's the point? Gun advocates know that. They just spew that shit as a defense mechanism.

I advocate locking the gun and ammo/magazine in a quick access biometric or coded pistol safe.  Those can be accessed in less than 5 seconds if needed.  
Most gun owners I know do this, if for nothing else, to keep them from being stolen.
You are not going to get rid of guns, so educating more on the appropriate storage/usage and possible consequences for being irresponsible is imperative.   

That is what I have. My handgun is in my closet which is about 15 feet away from where I sleep. I can open it and have it loaded in a few seconds. I live in a 3000 sq foot house so I hopefully have a little time. I also have a security system as well. 

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJPOWER said:

PJ_Soul said:

I agree it's totally stupid to say that guns bought for protection should be locked up. If they're locked up with the ammo kept separate then they aren't really for home defense anymore, so what's the point? Gun advocates know that. They just spew that shit as a defense mechanism.

I advocate locking the gun and ammo/magazine in a quick access biometric or coded pistol safe.  Those can be accessed in less than 5 seconds if needed.  
Most gun owners I know do this, if for nothing else, to keep them from being stolen.
You are not going to get rid of guns, so educating more on the appropriate storage/usage and possible consequences for being irresponsible is imperative.   

That is what I have. My handgun is in my closet which is about 15 feet away from where I sleep. I can open it and have it loaded in a few seconds. I live in a 3000 sq foot house so I hopefully have a little time. I also have a security system as well. 

You just had to throw that "I live in a 3000 sq foot house..." at us.

Didn't ya?

Just to rub it in the faces of all us 2000 sq foot home people.

PJPOWER said:

PJ_Soul said:

I feel like you guys are talking about a select bunch of people who are like you, not American gun owners in general. Just going off of what your own circles do doesn't tell the whole story. But yeah, of course I'm going off of various sources, not people I know. I've simply gleaned info from many different resources over many years. As for living where ownership is very restricted... not particularly. People just don't want them because they aren't scared or obsessed.
From my readings, statistics suggest that most gun safes are bought by those with several guns and who are basically gun hobbyists, like you two seem to be and the people you're talking about. But they aren't often purchased by those who just have a handgun in the house for protection.

That last sentence is complete bullshit if you do not mind me saying.  Hobbyists spend a hell of a lot more on larger safes to store more, but usually also have one of these next to the bed.  I feel like you are only going off of a few news stories where people have been irresponsible and applying those stories to average joe gun owners.  All goes back to that inherent bias I suppose...I'm sure I'm guilty of having that too.

RiotZact said:

I live in western PA and almost everyone in my life owns guns, my parents, my aunts and uncles, my girlfriends family, probably about 75% of my group of close friends. I'd say about 30-40% of them own safes and most of them rarely keep them in there. And I promise you that zero of the people I know have a bio-metric safe, I've never even heard that word said out loud in my life. My Dad keeps his hand gun in a safe and he would be totally fucked if someone broke into his home, he would have to get up, get his senses about him enough to remember the combination lock code (the numbers are between 1 and 100), fidget with his phone to get a light to see, all in time to stop the criminal. Not to mention that both he and his girlfriend are extremely heavy sleepers and their room is far enough from the front door that it would literally have to be being kicked in for them to have a chance at hearing it and waking them. 

That's my Dad, my stepdad? I live with him so I'm pretty much an expert on his gun security. He has no safe whatsoever, he owns the cheapest handgun he could find and carries it around in his ass crack most of the time. At night he usually means to set it on his night stand right next to his head, but sometimes he forgets and leaves it on the kitchen table. I have 2 younger sisters that are 13 and 15 now but he has been doing this same thing for about 7-8 years now so since they were about 5 and 7 years old. When I ask him about that he defends it by saying "I tell them all the time, if you touch that, you'll die." Also, my stepdad is a very average joe type, even if you know him fairly well you wouldn't know any of this. He isn't some uneducated Trump loving redneck, he's a regular guy and that's how he secures his gun. 

PJ_Soul said:

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

I agree it's totally stupid to say that guns bought for protection should be locked up. If they're locked up with the ammo kept separate then they aren't really for home defense anymore, so what's the point? Gun advocates know that. They just spew that shit as a defense mechanism.

I believe this came up again recently in response to a kid getting a hold of a gun and accidentally shooting it. I 100% believe guns should be locked up with kids in the house. Most gun owners I personally know who have guns for protections have a small hand gun safe under the bed or near by, which would prevent access from a kid but allow access for self defense.
Personally I dont both, I lock all mine up in the safe. But I'm not worried about people breaking in my house in the middle of the night either. I have no problem admitting my gun collection is for sport

Yes, and I think that those whose interest in guns is related to sport/collecting are usually the most responsible gun owners. The thing is, those folks are usually the ones advocating for guns, based on their specialized perspective. I feel like they may often have a somewhat skewed view simply because they are the ones mired in the whole issue of gun safety, while those who are dangerous with guns or doing it irresponsibly are the problem in terms of death and crime stats (though not so much in terms of American gun culture, which is the biggest problem of all).